waysider

I know this thread is about being born again so I hope(yes, I used the H word) that I don't get too far off topic. One thing that strikes me is how often we see a perceived difference in the written and verbal teachings and policies of TWI. Funny ,though, how so many people from varied times, places, and training programs seem to refer to very similar insights. These include,but are not limited to, such practises as sleep deprivation, program expulsions in the middle of the night with no obvious explanation, a ban on discussion of differences of opinion,isolation from society, and adaptation of an elitist attitude being virtually mandatory . Did these differences between the written and the verbal simply happen randomly and coincidentally? Did they simply happen in a fashion that is strikingly close to identcal? It is my opinion that we need to accept that there were in fact differences between written and verbal and they did not happen by accident. (remember being taught there are no accidents in life?)With this in mind , I hope ( oops, the H word again) we can agree there may have been differences in how being born again was presented and taught at different times and in different locations. ALL CLEAR I'm off the soap box now.

Abigail---------I sense from your last two questions this issue must weigh heavy on your heart, Mine too. In my opinion ( and that's all it is), yes there will be peace and agreement, but it won't be on this earth. It seems like the older you get, the harder it becomes to make any sense of war, or at least the wars we are seeing in our lifetimes. Maybe religon evolves alongside our perception of this world we live in.

Didn't Skip M. & Dave G. do some work with Tower of Power or am I mistaken?--- OH!-----Another great one from that same era: Zephyr ,starring the original "Hard Drivin' Woman", Candy Givens. This was one of Tommy Bolin's early projects before he moved on to Deep Purple and James Gang. Yet another guitarist who stretched the limits of his instrument. He really cut loose on Zephyr and showed his bluesy side.---About the Flying V----That axe was to Albert King what the duck walk was to Chuck Berry.

Could "wayface" be concidered part of the costume or just an accessory?

WW ------You are right; I really should have phrased this as a question and not a blanket statement since I am not sure of the extent of the Vatican's involvement. As to the person I made reference to, it is my recollection he may have been ordained( by TWI) and functioned as a branch leader and or limb leader.It was many years ago so I'm also not certain on that info.PS---- I think his initials may have been PS.

Here's my 2 cents. ------I know there was at least one or possibly two men who left POTIFICAL COLLEGE JOSEPHINIUM to persue training and employment with TWI. PCJ is the only Pontifical college in the U.S.A. and even the western hemisphere for that matter. This means it is a direct extension of the Vatican and as such is under the direct jurisdiction of the Pope. I was never Catholic so feel free to correct me if I stated this incorrectly. This institution has both an undergrad as well as graduate program but I do not know the level of study of the person I made reference to. It would seem to be a huge decision in one's life to leave such a prestigious organization. I don't know if that helps but it's another rock to look under.

My earlier post was as clear as mud. I apologize.I was neither condoning nor condeming trinitarian theology. I was merely trying to convey that TWI was very clear on how they felt about the trinity. When I cited " Jesus Christ Is Not GOD" as a reference I meant it was a reference of TWI beliefs to be used to demonstrate TWI beliefs not necessarily an end all reference source of information regarding the trinity. Hence, it illustrates looking at one tenet, in this example the trinity, through PFAL (TWI) colored glasses.This is not a judgement of the actual book itself.

Galen-----That possibility is already being discussed. Maybe we could change that old song from "I'm too young to die " to "I'm too old to fight".

Imean no disrespect to anyone by this but one conversation with a member of a group can simply not be expected to represent the entire group. I once had a conversation with a Catholic who was convinced the Pope was an acid head (lsd user). Did that make it true? Early on in the indoctrination process it was made very clear that "Thou shalt have no other GODS before me " meant it was not within TWI thinking to accept the trinity as one seperate entity. Chapter and verse? "JCING" is too long to quote here. Maybe this aspect calls for avisit to the archives where it has already been discussed.

What a HOOT!------ First the physical aspect: Get lots of sleep. Good advise ,of course , unless you happen to be in a training proram where sleep deprivation is the norm. I can remember sitting in a FELLOWLABORERS meeting where this very subject was taught. In essense, it was stated that the more you spoke in tongues ,the less need you would have for sleep. Carry it one stp farther and you can imagine why you wouldn't want to be caught yawning or dozing off. GOD forbid any hint of a catnap. This would mean you simply weren't pulling your weight in the SIT dept. Eat nutritionally: Of course this makes sense but even a bird requires an adequate amount to stay healthy. Next the spiritual: You must SIT much to build up the spirit within you .Are we talking about CHRIST IN YOU or the baby Jesus? It's all there with a full tank of gas( or E85) Wasn't there an example in PFAL about a man who believed GOD would show him which train his wife was arriving on? I guess he would have been out of luck if he hadn't started his day with lots of SIT. This is not about parenting, it's about allowing your mind to listen and obey to an outside source and ,no, I don't mean GOD. And BTW; no it was not part of any ageement that was signed before entering the program nor would it have been prudent to challenge the leadership on it's validity.

Socks------I just hopped out of my SAN FRAN time machine (ie: I gave another old LP a spin). COLD BLOOD. Man, what a sound though not much "geetar".I listened to "Sisyphus'. ( he was that Greek cat who had to keep rolling the rock up the hill only to see it roll back down the other side.) Lydia Pense cut loose on "Your Good Thing" with an intensity even ETTA hasn't been able to match. As for SPIRIT, "The Family That Plays Together" (aka $6 Bucks a Night ) did it for me . There is a cut on side 2 called "JEWISH" that begs to be translated. Wish I knew someone who knows what he was saying. Hmmmmm.

How about the ritual of attending as many PFAL classes as humanly possible without developing chronic narcolepsy? Remember people saying " There's just so much in it , you see something new everytime."? OH LOOK! VPW scratched his nose with his right hand. What does it mean? "Blessed are those who pick their nose" Maybe he was attempting brain surgery; he WAS a "dr" dontcha know.

One time I was mopping the floor at the limb HQ when a visiting VIP from INTERNATIONAL HQ( that's what we called it then) approached me. After the usual "GOD bless", he asked me if I was enjoying what I was doing. I told him I didn't care much for mopping floors but was pleased to know my efforts would bless others. He shook his head in disgust and reproved me for my lack of renewed mind. He said I just "didn't get it" and flew into a tirade about how someday I would see the "big" picture. It must have been prophesy because now that someday is here I think I "get it " and I see the "big " picture. WOW! to think I was right there in the presence of such a profound revelation.

"We control our resposes to our emotions, not our emotions" ----You hit the nail on the head.(IMO) TWI didn't only want to control our responses, they wanted to control our emotions. It was OK for a limb leader to get "spurtualy" mad over chairs that weren't straight but heaven help the lowly believer who wanted to go home for his grandfathers' funeral, visit a dying relative or fall for some other such "trick of the devil", as they were quick to label these types of events.

Why would we expect to find documentation?-------Probably for the same reason people buy lottery tickets. We should never lose sight of the fact ,though, that the odds are set by those running the scam----er ---I mean the game........PS. I still buy a ticket from time to time.nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Medic-----Youv'e got my vote!(Though it's mighty tempting to rotate that deodorant rule into the #1 spot.) BTW---Welcome home.

TS------I did a quick google of Ed Cassidy. He played with alist of jazz greats longer than my right arm. No mention of the pyramids though. Also checked out Randy California, who was his stepson at one point . Randy died in 1997 while saving his son from drowning. Their first three albums are timeless and really showcase them at their peak.(IMO).I played 6 Bucks A Night (reference to the album cover) so many times you could probably blow smoke though it but I still have it here somewhere.

For the sake of simple clarification, is this a discussion of speaking in tongues, tongues with interpretation or both? I suppose I could have added niether as an option also.

"Maybe VPW's research was put TOGETHER WITH assumptions yet DISTINCTLY INDEPENDENT OF support."------------I love it!------Hey! doesn't DISTINCTLY rhyme with SUCCINCTLY? Isn't there a figure of speech that says if two words both end in "inctly" they become as one? I think it's called "inctlydinctly" but my Greek is a bit rusty.---

Oakspear--------Your point is well taken and I find myself in agreement. Most of us in the earlier days had no concept of what biblical research is or ,for that matter, that it even existed. We blindly accepted because it was presented with such a great air of authority and certainty. It was atime when many wanted to believe in something or perhaps I should say any thing that would make some sense of the turbulant times we were in. It was a bit like being in love for the very first time. Maybe that is what is meant by "love is blind".

BURN THE CHAFF-------- Geeze, wasn't it enough to copy Stiles, Leonard, and Bullinger ? Did he really have to copy Ray Bradbury too?( I Believe FAHRENHEIT 451 was released in about 1953.)-----" I now return control of your computer to you".

I had a twig leader years ago who used to say "if you squeeze the Greek too hard you might end up ' all wet'."I suppose today such a statement would warrant an M&A. Lambano, laballo, ballo, throw, throw the guy out! Best twig leader I ever had. He didn't know too much Greek but he and his wife had/have a deep understanding of GOD's love,grace,and mercy and it was evidenced by the life they live.

OLDIES------ Ditto on the "goodies" perspective. We did, in fact, learn many wonderful truths. VPW used to say that if there weren't at least some truth in a presentation noone would "buy" it. Stiles, Leonard, Bullinger, they all had kernals of that "truth". VPW wove those strands into his own unique tapestry. I don't personally think he had long reaching or grandiose plans in mind. No, I think he went with the flow and had a superb understanding of how to read the "current". We learned many great truths but at least in my opinion ( and it is only that---- just my opinion ) I think the cost may have been too high. I ,of course, am not refering to the monetary costs. My mother always said "GOD doesn't love you for who you could be. He loves you for who you are".

socks-------RE: Chili Dog.-----Danelectro makes a whole line of single effect pedals with catchy names. They make two different octave pedals. 1.) French Toast, which gives an octave above with a metal sound. It's not too good for harp as you want your sound to be thicher not thinner.2.)Chili Dog, which can give one or even two octaves below. Now on harp there is a technique for playing octave where you lay the tongue down to block out notes and play one voice out of each side of the mouth thus producing a true octave. This sound has been popularised by the likes of Kim Wilson, Rod Piazza, the late William Clarke to name a few. They got it from their mentor George Smith.( Nice article on George in BLUES REVIEW a couple years ago.) With the Chili Dog you can go two octaves down and it sounds like you are playing simultaniously along side the bass pedals on a B3 organ. Very fat but only effective if used sparingly.

Romans 8:16/26,27

Romans 8:16/26,27 ------sorry-------you asked for one and that's three.