waysider

TLB ------If VP and Dottsie were basing that choir opinion on how much heart you put into it, I just might have to agree with them. As for ROA72, the movie: I remember it well . It was produced ( and maybe directed,though I'm not sure on exactly on these two points)by Bud Morgan who if I am correct in my rememberance, did alot of sports related work for CBS. We ran it with free admission to the public and filled the audience with shills from the local branch. When the movie was over we ran a witnessing extravaganza, and everyone had plenty of green cards and pens for signing up new students. My displeasure was not with the movie itself or for Bud Morgan but rather with the way we decended on the audience like a pack of hungry wolves' I also found it rather humorous that when I saw the movie I thought to myself that being there didn't seem nearly as cool as the movie made it seem. That's Hollywood for ya!

I remember performing that song for an SNS many years ago. Whoops! I guess I just blew my cover. I guess some memories really are worth keeping., especially the ones where there's "music in the air ".

I sold an old gold telecaster vintage 196x for $50 so I could make the rent at the boarding house where I was staying. Iwas staying in the boarding house because I was sent into this area by myself. I had to prove myself worthy,I suppose, of the next program I would enter. I probably could buy the whole stinckin' house for what that axe is worth today. I guess I can be thankful at least that even though that decision was "muy stupido", it never endangered my or anyone elses safety or life. Maybe this really belongs on the guitar thread.

My sincere apologies to anyone in way productions who may have been offended by my referance. I really loved what you guys ( in the Greek that thar is all inclusive as to gender) were doing. It simply conjured up an image of a long forgotten skit.

Oldies------- thank you for prodding me to look at old materials that have been collecting dust for some time now. I think what your postings have demonstrated to me at least, is that what we were taught and therefore believed was influenced, in part, by when and where we heard them. ,and also from whom. One good example of this is the differences on retirement, savings, life insurance, etc. You obviously were residing in an area where these were ok.(lucky you). I personally recall hearing no less than VPW himself teach that these things were not for "real believers" and were a validation of unbelief. Where and when did I hear them? AC 1973. These statements are not in any formal text but,who knows, maybe they are recorded for posterity on one of the zillions of audio tapes from that era. On the issue of SIT being required for salvation; I believe you are correct in saying that noone ever came right out and said it. At least not in an official sense. Here are two verses that come to mind that were frequently twisted and squeazed to extract that thinking.: I COR. 12:3b ---no man can say Jesus is Lord but holy spirit (the gift) paraphrased from page 333 of RTHST. --This , of course, is refering to sit. -------Romans10:10----the mouth that confesses him shall live. (by live, the implication is eternally) And so because everything must fit with a mathmatical accuracy even though GOD never really said so,the implication is evident. There are ,however, countless referances in the twi materials that explicately tell us that sit is our only proof of Christ's internal presence. And so to the average twig goer of that time, SIT was the ultimate nametag.Oh and by the way ,are the neon lights really bright on Broadway? Just wondering.

thinking,thinking,thinking.--------For aclass that was presented by a so called biblical research ministry, why was there such a disproportionate amount of secular material? At one point VPW rattled off a string of one line "gems of wisdom" longer than The Great Wall of CHINA. "NO SCRIPTURE----- YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME". If the lowly twig leader ever tried to interject a quote from Shakespeare, he/she would be hammered into submission with reproof for quoting a profane source. I can't prove this,YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME!

It's like walking into a library and wondering which book to read first. Here's a short one to start. Then time frame is fall of 1975, the program, fellowlaborers. After our evening meal it is announced that our usual evening duties have been suspended because we have a much more urgent mission to pursue. We must destroy any documents that link specific names to the monthly newsletter.(in other words the mailing list). Some work the 3x5 cards while others go through various files. Another crew sets about the task of destroying the mimeograph plates.we are instructed that this mission is a top priority and we must approach it seriously as it's been suspected that the illuminati may be "on to us". When work is completed we are instructed not to discuss this event with anyone, not even amongst ourselves. More stuff later but for now I have to answer the front door. There are two guys with black suits and sunglasses ringing my doorbell. One has a violin case. Could they be with WAY PRODUCTIONS?

I'm still kind of new at this here coffee shop so I'm trying some of the things that have been on the menu for awhile. I stumbled on this discussion of CFS from a couple years ago. I was involved with this class both as a student and as an instructor. Now to clarify for any non twi reading this, an instructor is one who is responsible for such things as setting up chairs, finding a location to run the class, introduce the taped session and so on and so on. It is not someone who actually "instructs" in the true sense of the word. The one thing that most appals me about this class in retrospect is that when the so called "DR." ventured into a discussion of THE ORINAL SIN he prefaced his his dissertation with something like "I have no scriptural proof. You will just have to trust me on this . I believe this is what GOD has shown me". This ,of course is a paraphrase as it has been alot of years since I heard him say this. NO SCRIPTURE----YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME. And trust we did because we thought he had an inside track. Now this is a very large question that has lurked in mens minds for millenia. He then went on to state that THE ORIGINAL SIN was not only masturbation but the physical consumption of the resultant "fruit". NO SCRIPTURE______YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME. I should have packed my bags right then and there but I figured anyone who was that "tight" with GOD should be heeded. NO SCRIPTURE ---------YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME! lol (@ myself)!

I only went to ROA through the '70's so I did not personally observe alot of what has been posted. Of course I'm not saying I doubt these recollections at all. I think for some of us who were no longer teenagers at this time and had seen secular festivals that were out of control parties, the ROA was like a breath of fresh air, an opportunity to go to a festival with the greatest music on the planet, great friends wall to wall, and no pressure to comform to the sex and drug culture we were trying to put in our past. How it came apart at the seams I'm not really sure but I'm pretty certain if GOD's hand had been on it as much as we were told we probably would be "headed for Ohio" right now. Slight derail: remember "ROA72" and how we used it to branch witness and then do a hard sell sign up when the lights came on? It was touted as the Christian version of "Woodstock, The Movie". HA and again I say HA!

ILB-------------You stated on your post that you felt like you were a rambler. May I most graciously disagree with you. I thing what you see as ramblings are valid points that many have pondered. You asked what doctrines/teachings may have set the stage for our thinking and tenets. I am reminded of how we studied math in a long past era of our lives. After basic arithmatic, we moved on to algebra 101. Without this foundation we could not understand any of the other mathmatical ideas. After all, what do we use to solve geometry probems, trig. problems, calc. problems, etc.? I hope the analogy makes sense. Early in the pfal class we were shown in great detail how the devil was able to deceive Eve. Bottom line was she "considered what he said". Now were in algebra 101. Never even consider. That's a twi parallel to the Pythagorum Theory. Your downfall starts when you start to consider, or so we were taught. If you can't consider, what's really left but to accept whatever is given you? Secondly, Annanias and Saphira syndrome. thou shalt never question the decisions of leadership lest GOD remove his hedge of protection and make way for the devil to consume thee. The rest,ILB, is just lots more math classes built on alg. 101. You also stated that the day may come when you no longer need to visit as part of your healing . I hope that day comes and you decide to stay anyway just 'cause the coffee tastes so good when you have it with good friends. I enjoy your so called "ramblings".

I have posted previously on this thread on what would probably be about page 6. My post alluded to a twig of senior citizens who were told to either disband or disassociate from twi. I would like to add that although noone in this twig "tithed", they did pass the HOP. Furthermore, they met three times a week and ran a very typical twig. By this I mean they had songs, announcements,believers meetings, teachings from class materials,and yes even SNS tapes. What I also failed to mention was that several had children and grandchildren who were involved in such programs as WC,FL, WAY COLLEGE,MINUTEMEN,etc. These folks really, really sacrifised family in the quest to move GOD's WORD. Perhaps some are even reading this thread. I know we often shield our kids from unpleasant reallities but maybe someone is recognising themself in this discussion and can add to the enlightenment.

As I follow this thread, one common theme seems to keep resurfacing. Many of us seem to think we have made lots of bad choices. May I humbly submit for you this thought. We chose to serve GOD, we chose to serve HIS people. We chose to endeaver to make this world a better place. Are these not admirable choices? No, I think the bad choice makers were the ones who chose to exploit our generousity, to exploit our dreams and hopes, and to exploit so many good hearted, dedicated sons of GOD. We are in good company on the exploited son part, if you get my drift. I wonder if Triumph The Insult Dog (David Letterman Show ) might not address them by saying "I Poop On You"! OK OK maybe the quote WAS a bad choice!

Rascal------------Thanks for responding to my post. I'm glad we can find some humour in all this after all we've seen. "I kid you not" was what Jack Paar (host of the Tonite Show before Johnny Carson) used to say when he was about to say something he felt strongly about. When this actually happened (and it did, "I kid you not"), I was a complete novice in SIT. I heard others do it in believer's meetings so I just thought it would be o.k. if I spoke and interpreted. The twig leader was not there and I told him about it the next day. Back then people had believer's meetings wherever and whenever they could. Remember I knew very little about TWI at this point. Heck! I was still trying to figure out what TWIG meant. I I thought maybe it was an acronym. What's my point? I had only SIT minimally (like a couple of hours ) and had never heard of revelation. I'm not saying this was revelation,but if it was,it shoots a hole in page ten of the AC sillybus where it is stated that we must (not should) SIT daily before GOD will consider us worthy of revelation. That image stuck in my mind for a long, long time like a bad wreck on the highway. HEY! "bad wreck on the high WAY" I think a feel a good blues song comin' on! "BBBBad wreck on the high WAY OHyeaah!"

Belle------------The concept of unwritten policies is not unique to the more current version of twi. Even in the early days there were many unwritten "laws". Most of these revolved around two issues; believing and planning. Retirement planning was a no-no. Lots of scriptural referances were given to back this such as be anxious for nothing and many quotes regarding our needs already being met . I won't go into a lengthy list because I'm sure most people here have long lists of thier own that come to mind. Ditto on life insurance andsavings plans. Add to that health insurance because we all "know" the only reason to have it is if your believing is weak. Planning for anything personal like a road trip likewise showed you didn't really believe to have your needs met. Of course planning for a visit from a VIP required uttmost planning as this was GOD'S way of giving you an opportunity for heavy revvy. Sounds quite different from the WAY RAG article that was cited here recently but , in essense, is it really? ------Hey! I just realized something about those "broken" mint packs! Doth not the scripture teach thee "ya get what ya give"?

AH! ------"THE ROCK OF AGES", The greatest gathering together this side of THE gathering together. Was that a catchy promo or what!? Worst memory: After the AC in '73 the ROA was kind of like a graduation of sorts. On the last night VPW announced a service at at the end of his teaching. All AC grads had to come forth and minister healing.I just made stuff up because I figured if GOD wanted me to be apart of someones deliverance, He would have told me himself. I still believe healing is available I just don't think TWI understood what it is or how it works.------Now for agood memory: Barry McCoy performing "happy to be home again where the daystar shines in all your hearts. So happy to be home again"

I Love Bagpipes: You asked what/where is WAYSIDE TRUCK STOP? ............In the mid seventies there was a training program known as FELLOW LABORERS. About fifty of us lived in an apt. complex in a somewhat rural area. We were about 15 miles from the nearest large town. We lived in townhouses that each had three bedrooms. We met at 5 a.m. every morning for a believer's meeting and announcements in a basement of one of the town houses. We then ran a mile on an adjoining road. There was a pasture next to that road and when we ran it awakened the cows and they ran alongside us. Not nearly as exciting as running with the bulls in Pamplona.(i'm not implying I ever ran with the bulls). This program was promoted to me as a way to intensely develope leadership skills and teaching ability and to then return to one's home area and establish and move the word. The duration of the program was two years. For all those who were in the program, this a perfect time to say "HA HA HA HA". WE were required to have secular jobs and then to report to limb HQ (in other words meet at the limb HQ) for our evening foot ighnments and group evening meal. When we finished our evening work foot ighnments we drove back to the apt. complex for our evening twig, our THIRD required meeting for the day. At this point I should note that there was a truck stop 1/4 mile from the complex. Many of us would run in quickly for a pack of smokes or coffee before reaching the apts. Of course the name of the truck stop should be obvious by now. After our evening twig we had about 1/2 hr. before "lights out". Lights out was literal according to usage and there was to be no conversation after "lights out". Many FL visited the WAYSIDE between nite twig and lights out .This was only about 1/4 to 1/2 hr. but served as a time to consider(PFAL taught us not to even consider) with each other what in the heck we were doing there without anyone listening in on our conversation............added note:we were living in atime before cell phones, internet,etc. the only phone nearby was a payphone @WSTS

Although I don;t know anyone who was tossed for not tithing, I do recall a twig of senior citizens who were told by a representative of HQ they would either have to disband or stop representing the twig as part of twi. If memory serves me HQ said the twig was not diverse enough...............OH! ........did I mention none of them tithed? This was many years ago. There probably aren't too many of them still with us. I know they were quite hurt when all this took place.

The late '60's and early '70's is an era that is difficult to explain. It's a bit like trying to explain TWI's effects to the uninitiated.It was a time when so many young people like myself wanted so desperately to make the world a better place. What better way to do this than with the blessings of God himself? I think a lot of us had a genuine desire to do the right thing without a concern for how many crowns we earned or whether God would shower us with personal gain in the here and now. Of course,mis amigos, los lobos can sense which sheep in the flock are vulnerable and play this to their own benefit. Still, every lamb is equally important to the Master Shephard & He does his utmost to safeguard them. Yikes! I'm starting to sound like Chauncey Gardener in the great Peter Sellers flick "Being There".(side note: If you have never seen it, be advised, it's not over when the credits roll.)...............I was witnessed to in '71 or '72. A particular young lady took it upon herself to personally undershephard me. It was all quite innocent I assure you. We read the Bible together, went to twig, etc. she signed me up for PFAL & I started the class two or three weeks after my initial intro to TWI. AT about the halfway point of the class,I discovered that the class instructer was actually her beau!(Do people still use that term?) They eloped and left the area. Now remember I stated that this was all platonic so I wasn't crushed on a romantic level. Ifelt pretty silly ,however,to have been enticed into this class by such devious measures.BTW,all the other twiggies knew the score and played along................fast forward ....I was intrigued by the teaching and decided to finish. I then took TIP,AC KTR, CFS,PCP,LSD,LMNOP oops! sorry! I ran classes, ran twigs, and just generally ran , ran ,ran ,til I thought I would drop. OH! I also "ran with the cows".(That's for all my Fellow Slaverer brethern and cistern)..........I drifted away about 15 years ago and to my suprise, the Debul did not strike me upside the head betwixt my eyes nor did anyone follow me to bring me back. so much for "We luv ya brotha man". I continued to share stuff until about 2 or 3 months ago at which time I realized my PFAL book was MIA. I started looking for a replacement and found GSC instead. As for that PFAL book ,I have officially stopped looking for it. I'm glad you guys are here. It;s like an aosis , umm,an eousis ,umm,an oeesis, well anyway it's a welcome sight on the horizon!............oh yeah, WAYSIDER:one who frequented the WAYSIDE TRUCK STOP.

DM.....O.K. but it sure will look funny on your driver's license.

O.K. I hope I don't derail but sometimes we old folks get lost in the moment. Back in about '71 or '72 I got witnessed to by some kids who seemed pretty excited about twig fellowship. I went to acouple of fellowships and was really blown away by SIT.(o.k. ,one of the young ladies caught my eye but that's another story). After 2 or 3 twig meetings I decided to try this SIT stuff myself. Nobody told me you had to have a class so I just went ahead and did it. Next day I tell the TL about it. HE gives me a "lift list" and a WAY MAG. This sounds remotely like my vasectomy experiance but again I digress.First up, Joe B. Leever needs a car. I envision him driving a shiney new Caddy and SIT. Wow, this is easy! Next, I envision this "DR." from the WAY RAG as he stands behind a podium about to expound,but just then he grins from ear to ear, flips me the bird and mouths those two little words we all know too well.( I kid you not this really happened). My TL says it's probably just unrenewed mind and to strive to block it out. In retrospect, I wonder if that middle finger was't really his thumb and those words really "Goin' my WAY?"

IMO, Truth is the only thing really WORTH defending. Oh, but wait, according to TWI,"facts are not truth". Huh? sounds like a pretty handy loophole.I wonder if it's "true" or just a "fact"?

Watered Garden I do remember the check only requirement but I can't for the life of me remember why they said it was required. I always had to buy money orders since I never really had enough money to open a checking account. And then, of course, there was the issue of requesting special dispensation to run a personal errand such as go to the bank or post office. "Thou shalt weed thine swiss chard lest the mighty thistles of satan consume thine crop" Oh well, I'm making a coffee and twinkie run to the WAYSIDE TRUCK STOP,want anything?

bluesman extraordinary. lots of years poundin' skins for Elmore James. two decades as frontman for Anson Funderburgh and the Rockets. unforgettable vocals and harp work. the blues community lost a gentle giant. Sam was 70. more on Wikipedia. p.s. "Which Way Is Texas?"