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motherof2, I echo what the rest said. I myself can't imagine the pressure your dad was put under to join, and I've seen it in action... but from an entire family of the size of yours, unfathomable. he is indeed a strong man.

somehow I was shielded from that. I didn't hear it until I had a few years of indoctrination behind me. I think I first heard it when I went wow in 1990.

you know, the bible is the final word on all of life and godliness. that was the open door they had to get into ever crevass of our lives. finances were taught. if I remember right, they were also part of wow training. owe no man anything was the commandment that enabled twi leaders to feel they could snoop into every aspect of our lives. try working for a legalistic FC-owned business and not having the details in your life criticised... the car you drive, your apartment, etc. they know how much you make, and how much you should give back to the ministry that's given you so much *sniff* (single tear rolls down cheek). I think the FC's were directed to teach controlling your finances/ABS at one point, because it was taught ad nauseum until one felt guilty for wanting to keep a dollar for an ice cream cone because it wasn't an effing "need".

you must have been gone by the time Craig Almighty laid that on the people in those exact, yes I said exact, words. the teaching may have been around implicitly before that although I don't recall it, but lcm most definitely delivered it in that form with scripture build up to back it up. yes, we who believe do help people, with or without the mog's permission. however, twi teaching made me constantly doubt God's voice in me. it actually became the antithesis of what I thought twi stood for, which was walking spiritually, not by law. we had law. lots of it, and it changed as the "Word" changed "for our day and time" as "as given to the man of God for his people". excuse me while I go throw up now.

yep, my finances were combed through for months because I was in debt and couldn't take an AC special until I was out. investment strategies were taught, and taught aggressively. 1. invest in the ministry (give us all your money) 2. start your own business 3. don't bother to invest or save for retirement, you won't need to if you do 1. and 2. above. I'm looking at $800 month at retirement from my SS benefits. thanks twi.

seriously, dude. I did wonder where I would go and THERE WAS GREASESPOT!! I love the internet. and virtual rebel cells.

same here. nice people make me want to run away fast.

thanks for the reminder, dooj. we did get derailed into discussion about whether people had the right to remember experiencing their time with twi as "bad" instead of being required to give a fair and balanced view. so, back to topic, I'm so glad to have been healed in this category so I can tell leadership to stick it! I don't even have to go search the scriptures!! nya-nya-nya, BOT et al.

rascal, careful lest ye be attacked again. the requirement seems to be not that you are positive, but that you are neutral. good thing, too, because all that would leave you is the twi myspace group. however, I say phooey to neutrality. I'm not neutral about my life and I don't work for fox news.

mine is general as well. it's quit possible that men in general had a better experience in twi and there's a few who simply cannot reconcile the idea of rape and leadership-mandated abuse or spiritual corruption in those who plagerized and lied with what they saw through their rosy-colored glasses. after all, people got saved. I'm just not sure there was a justifiable end to justify their means.

mark, I noticed and refrained from pointing fingers although it's getting more difficult :blink:

unfortunately most of them already have spawn.

dove, I need to point out to you, you didn't join this thread sharing your experiencing and accepting others. your first paragraph assumes that victims don't search the scriptures and comes across as an attack: "One question? Why did it not occur to anyone to check the scriptures to see if what was being taught was in fact truth. If the earnest desire was and I believe it was to be obedient to God then why did people not do the one basic thing we heard from day one starting in PFAL The Word of God is the Will of God, I don't know of anyone that was around past a coffee break, that was not taught that to find out what God's Will was you needed to search and know the scriptures, that is how you find out "how to be obedient to God". How many gazillion times did we hear The Word of God is Our Only Rule for Faith and Practice. So why was it not? Was It Is Written just a slogan on the wall? Further when common sense caused a HUH? moment in our life, why were we to abandon years of teaching only to accept anything as truth?" another thing... I had no idea that neutrality toward twi was a requirement for posting here. I hate twi because it's a sham, a broken cistern. its leaders are corrupt. I have no neutrality toward it and maybe I never will. I'm decidedly anti-twi. if it's not a requirement, rascal is entitled to speak negatively toward it if she likes. I can't remember her saying "everyone" experienced what she did, so why do you insist she's trying to speak for anyone except herself and others with similar experiences? I don't feel like she's attempting to speak for me, she just needs to be allowed to have her own voice. hopefully you can accept that a lot of us who were never allowed to speak would really just like to be listened to without being judged and flogged by stupid scriptural platitudes or held to some empty twi expectation that we'll all be so expert in the scriptures that when evil crosses our path we'll be able to always repel it. one of the popular teachings I remember is that WE are not ignorant of satan's devices. so if a whole group of people is busy practicing evil or just keeping their mouths shut about it, or getting kicked out and lied about because they pointed out satan in our midst, how in the world can we the weaker among us from falling victim to satan's devices? good heavens.

dooj, you were clear, and I certainly wasn't offended by what you said in the slightest. it's good to see both sides and you have a great heart for people. I can also see dove's side although his extreme lack of empathy is offensive to me and if he wants to put people in a box, he should make sure they fit in there first. I like what you said about if one member hurts, the whole body suffers. part of healing for me to learn I wasn't the only one who experienced the side of twi that I did. we should all be mindful of people who suffer, even when they're made to suffer at the hands of leaders who should know and do better.

the buffer zone around HQ (if I'm remembering correctly) was some weird thing where lcm wanted lots of watchdogs and spindoctors in a certain radius of HQ for damage control, although he said it was to prevent devil spirits from taking over the area... maybe the hidden logic that if there were more believers in the area willing to take the hits that the devil couldn't get to HQ so easily? when I was in CO, someone was M&A'd in a fellowship meeting and told to pack up and leave the state.

pond, doog and dove, I'm not trying to say I don't see your side regarding taking responsibility for your own decisions, either. I feel guilt and remorse for hurting people at the direction of leadership. things were just wrong, wrong, wrong and if I can ever make the opportunity to heal a hurt that I caused, I will certainly take it. the way I see it though, that is separate from dealing with the coercion and the aquired helplessness that comes with gradual vicitimization. it's taken family therapy for me and my kids to sort through it, because it pervaded our lives and prevented my children from developing normally. I was a victim. there was a time when suicide seemed like the only way out, but I couldn't do it because it would leave my children without a protector. does it make me weak to consider suicide rather than flight? I think it just means I was opressed, abused, and and brainwashed to believe I had no choice. did I have a choice in reality? well sure I did. would reading the bible have given me the strength and knowledge to escape? sorry, in my case it would not. I am angry at twi and at many people in it for what they did, starting at the very top of the food chain. can I forgive them? sure, if they have remorse. I have no reason to otherwise. I'll be angry until I'm not. in the meantime I'll continue to work through my issues because I want to be a good mom and someday a good wife, which means undoing most of what I've learned in life. in that process, the anger will likely subside because it's no longer important. there was love in twi when I first got involved. eventually I saw very little, and it wasn't enough to help me through my particular circumstance because it was so overshadowed by the evil in leadership.

thank you. I thought my post out very well and you gave me exactly the reply I would have expected from a thinking adult. the flaw in what you continue to proclaim is that ALL adults are fully capable and remain capable in the face of the type of psychological attacks that they were subject to. there is no magic age that move a person beyond the innocence and trust of a child. everyone is different, some trust too much. in a place that professes to be godly, the weak should NEVER come under attack. but in twi, it was encouraged and even mandated. your experience was different, which is fine, but you come across as so incredibly judgemental and harsh toward those who were weaker than yourself. thank God that you could walk away. I was not the "head of the house" and I was afraid to try until I became too afraid not to.

and obviously you were responsible for the fact that you stood there for... how many days? it's unclear whether it was one or three... holding your belongings in your arms. that your arms hurt at the end of the day is clearly your own fault for doing as you were told.

MountainTopCO, that is a very interesting take on vpw's motives and would certainly explain a lot. in fact, I experienced an occam's razor flash that might just be wishful thinking, but now I will wonder and hope to understand.

amen to that, Lori. what I couldn't do then, I am learning to do now, and I will not let anyone interfere with my freedom again.

motherof2, there are lots of threads on this board that go over vpw's plagerism, which was (pardon the term) ABUNDANT. most of his ideas didn't originate with him at all, he learned them from other teachers of the bible and then passed them off as his own, that he got by revelation from God. I wandered aimlessly for a few days around here and people were very helpful with pointing me to the right threads. if you do a search on "plagerism" you'll probably turn up some items of interest. there was a thread in the about the way forum about JE Stiles book that I started, there was some interesting feedback to that.

I'm going to add my 2 cents about anger here.... yes, it can eat you up and even destroy you, but it has it's proper place in the process of acceptance. do not deny it. there is nothing ungodly or evil about being angry, as long as you're working toward a way to deal with these people where they don't get under your skin. I'm going through the same thing with my ex. he sounds pretty much exactly like your uncle and treats his family like it seems your uncle treats you. he doesn't care about their hearts, he just wants them to toe the line so that he looks good because he got them "saved" and in the One True Household, as it's been called. I've been hit, called names, yelled at by leadership for hours, my children emotionally and physically abused thanks to twi's influence. the turning point in my life that made escape possible was making a few friends outside twi. maybe if you can get your aunt out with a few other people away from your uncle, you might get a better idea of what's really going on.

welcome motherof2. for me, twi stance on Jesus Christ not being God is what attracted me in the beginning. I'd read and talked to devout Christians from many denominations and couldn't reconcile his own teachings with him being the Almighty One. I still can't. I still believe he is who he said he is, the Son of God.

socks, may I please pre-order a copy of "millet - fun holiday recipes"?

bingo. I believed in the party line that it was OUR ministry, we work for the glory of GOD blah blah blah, it was fun and great in the beginning, until they got their claws into me, went WOW, went into the WC, that was the end of my freedom to question even though we got kicked out. after that, 2 different FCs in 2 different areas, beloved of the MOG, and my ex made sure I never questioned again while the FCs (found out later) lined their own pockets by the labor of the innocent, people who truly loved God. it took years to bring me near the point of death. it took about 3 years to get out. I could not read the bible because twi's interpretation was in every verse and I would never be able to escape if I went to the scriptures to find hope.