potato

strange that you assume that we did not. I can see how the direction to beat a child, coming from a MOG after a period of indoctrination (like what I experienced first-hand) would seem both scriptural and spiritual, if the fear that your devil-possessed child would contaminate your family, turn on the rest of your children, and leave you at the mercy of Satan in the cold outside the "Household". I protected my child the best I could and I got out before he was a teenager or I might have been faced with the same choice, and having been worn down by constant accusations I might have made the wrong choice. others who had children with real psychological issues who needed real help would have had it so much worse, having the fault for their child's "devil possession" laid at their feet and the only redemption possible by getting rid of the problem. I wonder if anyone ever took M fart-face's advice, and how they managed to live with themselves afterward. the scriptural build-up to such "commandments" was logical and compelling, in case you were never subjected to them. if all of a sudden I was just directed up-front to do some of the things I was willing to do later, I wouldn't have stuck around, never mind if the bible said anything about it. the interpretation of biblical scripture varies so widely, if it was to be obvious to me what it meant, shouldn't it be to everyone? why so many interpretations and opinions if it's always so plain?

I'm so confused about this fight and why you insist that people who are victimized are at fault for not knowing better than to let themselves be victimized. why, if that were the case, no woman would ever be beaten within an inch of her life, no woman would be raped, no one would get mugged or robbed because we'd all just know that the person asking for directions is a rapist or mugger or you'e know that abusive husband really wasn't the person he pretended to be when you married him. the mind goes through some weird and amazing things to survive in situations like we've been in. hostages have been brought to regard their captors as their protectors by careful brainwashing. the mind is very susceptible under stress. abuse victims are brought to a point of believing they are at fault for the abuse. some feel so guilty and ashamed they kill themselves. I also wonder why you were in a program that would kick someone out at 4am and order them to another state? or were you the very first person to be treated like that? if there were abuses being practiced, why were you even there, if you've had it together so completely that you never got tricked? or do you just recognize that it's all your own fault for allowing it to happen? I'm struggling to understand your point of view and I really can't.

kewl!!

I think that was taught verbatim, actually. every believer great and small was pretty much commanded to watch for every little wish or desire of a MOG and do whatever they could to fulfill it or they weren't committed. it was so much that the little requests or musings for this or that were commandments from the MOG, but that since God worked in the MOG, God himself was speaking (and therefore commanding) and let them who have ears, hear.

wow WG, that is absolutely sickening. M F@rt should be in jail... or better yet, all the children he advised be beaten with 2x4s should get to beat him with same until he repents. I was rough on my kids sometimes because I thought I was doing the right thing, because that's what the FCs said to do because my kids were too energetic. my son had a lot of pent up anger as well, and was well on his way to becoming a bully just like his dad. "It is impossible to obey God without first obeying your leadership!" I remember that statement very well. that was the beginning of the almost-ending of my life by slow corruption and theft of my soul by the wicked. I was terrified to go against leaders or my ex-husband. I look at couples who survived together because they kept leadership out of their marriages and eventually left twi together and it gives me great hope that true love between husband and wife can exist. I'm very happy for the couples that got out before twi destroyed their marriages so I can believe I have something to look forward to.

go all the way to the bottom of the page, contact us, there's a link for title requests. <ironic voice>it only took me... oh... about 20 minutes to find it</ironic voice>

YIDGTC, I too commend you and agree with you, my guard goes way, way up over certain things, like people who show concern... I immediately think they're after my soul. another one that raises my ire is the whole "forgive for your own sake" thing, just ticks me off. I'll forgive when I'm darned well ready, which is after I'm through giving myself permission to get angry in the first place after eating it for years... and maybe not even then, although I'm very quick to forgive when I see someone has remorse over hurting me or someone I love. wow, ok, that was a tirade but it felt good. anyway, I got rubbed the wrong way when I first started posting and accused someone of something not nice. I never apologized, either. I think I should go back and figure out if I need to. now this: I like the way you worded that. I hadn't looked at it that way, and it is much more beautiful taking the mouth to mean the part of the whole. acting and talking religious isn't it... we all know lots of people who are good at that. when someone really gets it, their life becomes a confession. they heal people by just loving them, not by browbeating them with bible verses.

smacking your spouse also earned you nothing more than gentle reproof and the admonishment to "get it together in your marriage" (how's that for wayspeak, huh? huh?)... if your kids "accidentally" got in the way, you were advised not to report the abuse because authorities might come in and take the kiddies away from their happy home. didn't matter if state law required clergy to report abuse, either... maybe that's why only the very top got to be clergy? no contact with the masses, nice way of side-stepping the need to train leadership how to actually take care of people. regular old WC could be ignorant, because they weren't ordained.

I just asked netflix to carry the movie. I want to see it. next, someone should make a factual documentary about vpw and his contribution to the christian movement. hehe. just suggesting that makes me feel good.

well, I would pay big bucks for BOT bobble-heads.

I remember the spin on it was that if there was no membership, the government couldn't hunt us all down and harrass us for belonging to a "dangerous cult".

I'm so glad I got kicked out of corps training. I'm so glad I got my kids out. this thread turns my stomach. I was ridden hard by FC's with quiet kids because mine aren't. I'm so happy I'm free of compulsion to turn them into little clones. my ex wanted my kids to impress everyone so they'd know what a great believer he was to have his family in order. it destroyed our family. there was no love. it was all about appearances and power and bullying the weak.

personally I'm sick to death of the question "how much do you love God?" I'll never love God like he deserves. ever. however, it is supremely important for me to be reminded of the fact that God loves me. twi didn't show it. I wondered if God was really out there when I left twi after facing the demons that kept me in twi for so many years. Roy is one of those people who reminds me that God loves. Roy, you freaked me out when I first read your posts but I quickly understood what a beautiful heart you have. I'll take your holy kisses blowing my way any day.

if I'm not mistaken in recalling past reading, quite a few persecuted denominations met in homes and businesses through the centuries rather than dedicated buildings or complexes because the world has been, more often than not, dangerous for religious deviants.

house fires suck. I've experienced 2, the first because teenagers were playing with sparklers in the house, and the second because of an act of stupidity so obvious that leadership SHOULD have ripped someone a new one if they spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear. I'm glad the people at least got to finish their pie :) kinda grossed me out how the article turned into a plug for twi.

I'm amazed the thread is still there. it is pretty interesting. that Matthew dude does a nice job of regurgitating the official twi spin on things. it's pretty sickening... unless he was in a different twi than I was??? I should give him the benefit of the doubt.

"I know this book says to do it that way, but you gotta pucker a little, like this..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA HAHA HA!!!!!!! wow, that was funny! Garth, you crack me up. humor aside, puppies raised by a cat is not enough science to get me to question anything except the judgement of people willing to believe with no scientific proof that they are other than what they look like, newborn puppies being nursed by a cat, just because someone suggests it... but then that does show you how when we wish for something to be true, we will look for "proof" anywhere. (edited for bad oopsie, I forgot the "other than" so it made no freakin' sense.)

"see, it you tilt the page a little like this, she looks just like the devil"

yawn. this thread could be interesting if you addressed what people actually say instead of turning everything into an opportunity to attack. notice I said "a lot of the evolutionary rank and file are pretty reactionary regarding God." I didn't say that was a personality trait exclusive to them. to them "creation is anethema". I have no idea why I would need to go tell that to all the Christians who accept evolution as scientific fact/scientifically sound. who cares? my point is that people on both sides are reactionary. you are a case in point. go back and read my post again. you replied to it with this: How about the following illustrated by Potato: "... on the evolutionist side, they start with the premise "God did not create" ...". Talk about sloppy thinking/presumptions! (And no, this isn't accusing Potato of sloppy thinking, just the line he showed in his post.) So many people presume that evolution yanks out God as the creator/maker, "God did not create...". then this: You continue to attempt to link evolution with atheism or a POV that is 'anethemic' to a creator God, and your attempts are quite 'selective' in doing so. As I said before, evolution doesn't deal with whether there is a creator (ie., God) or not. It _only_ deals with the physical, natural process, based on various findings that (seems to, at the very least) show the process of evolution by means of natural selection. Period. End of story. which proves you picked out one of three premises that I stated evolutionists start with, completely neglecting the third one (which I've encountered much less frequently than the first two I listed) and subsequently constructed and accused me of a position I do not hold.

good job on selectively quoting that section Garth. that was pretty predictable you've got to admit that a lot of the evolutionary rank and file are pretty reactionary regarding God. creation could only exist with a god or gods, and since supreme being(s) don't figure into their universe, creation is anethema.

I go to a therapist. I chose one who works in the domestic violence field. it works.

I feel the same way. one of the most freeing things for me was realizing that evolution is also nothing more than a cloud of hypothetical constructs into which followers also attempt to squeeze scientific fact. they're not always successful either, and they have as many denominations as religions have. on the creationist side, they start with the premise "God created" on the evolutionist side, they start with the premise "God did not create" of more adamently "there is no God to have created or directed" or in more neutral terms "life evolved because the right elements were in the right place at the right time" from either of those two starting points, the philosophies branch out endlessly. now I can say "I don't know" and read and discuss and ENJOY the different philosophies without having to bash any. it's kinda cool. I don't even have to reveal which premise I accept as Truth.

I also want to say thanks to Roy for starting this thread. it's helped me with my struggle to sort out the confusion in the aftermath of leaving.

you are right polar bear. I'm very thankful for the help I've been given here. very thankful. today I woke up thinking about twi and what a wasteland it is. about the people I knew who left before me, and about my ex and how well he fit in as long as he could use me as an excuse for all his failings. I am so glad to be listening to my kids make pancakes instead of sitting in fellowship this morning. my entire week was prioritized around getting to fellowship Sunday morning. it was a 1-1.5 hour round trip to get there. every day I thought about what I could do today so that the weekend didn't just suck trying to get things done for my family and myself. it's great to just spend a little time relaxing.