Patrick and Sarah

cman, My progression was, being very scared of eternal torment............ Learning of God's love for me, no longer worried for myself.............. Through the Way International believing in annihilation of the wicked.......... (this was a merciful annihilation and did not conflict with the Love God.) Later I studied "Christian Universalism" on the internet and believed this for many years. Christian Universalism is Bible based. I was Bible bound(confined) for a good 20 year through this progression. Today I have shed the religion of Christianity completely. Through Christianity I learned spirituality and above all the supremacy of love. I learned to love God and most of my fellow humans. I learned to seek first the kingdom of God. All this is good. I had to shed Christianity because of the duality. God/devil, Heven/Hell, Good/evil. I have found the teachings of Ernest Holmes "Science of Mind" to be close to what was taught in TWI without the dualism. Here is a link to the core concepts. http://cslabq.org/AboutUs/WhatWeBelieve.htm This the "Spiritual Living Center" I attend. Peace and have fun

Howdy Joe, I enjoyed reading this thread. I still SIT too. As for it being "faked", I emagine that if you think you are faking it you are. I find that speaking in togues puts me in a place of spiritual thanksgiving fast. Patrick

OK folks, Here is what happened! Shortly after I posted this mess, Sarah and I got involved in a Church. This is called the law of attraction........very simular to the law of believing. We attracted to ourselves a church full of loving people who endeavour to live the Spirit of God in the Daily walk. Way to cool. This whole movement that I had never heard of is called "new thought". It is not too new. One of the great pioneers is Ralph Waldo Emerson. http://ralphwaldoemerson.wwwhubs.com/ At the bottom of the above page is an outstanding list of authors. Each on had a great hand in the "new Thought movement." Sarah and I got involved in a "New Thought" church that is NOT Christian. It is not Christian but the principles taught are very simmilar to PFAL in a lot of ways. But I learned that there is a Christian group called "unity" wich very closely follows the same type path as the church we are involved in. Unity is Christian, But not in the sence that you learned in PFAL. We have not tried the Unity church in town because we really like the "Religous Science"(religous science is "new thought", NOT scientology or Christian science) church that we are attending. Sarah has been healed greatly just be getting back into the renewed mind (God conscienciousness), and a spiritual community. If you are "dying"(really, she was literally dying) for fellowship, google "unity" and check out a church near you. Patrick Patrick

No I have not read it............ Sounds interesting. Can anyone really quote Jesus? We can all quote the Bible, and man we where good at it. Shoot, we where "the best". I learned a lot from the Bible..........I was Born again from reading the Bible............The Spirit of God spoke to me through the Bible............... I've outgrown it............. I'm still "born again".......still hearing the Spirit of God..............The God who indwelled the writers of the Bible, indwells me. So really...has anyone read the book? Patrick

Here is one of the groups that got supressed by the "church fathers". There where Christians who believed that Jesus Christ was the "Saviour of the world" All.....the whole world........nothing left out.........none left in hell ect. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html I went this rout for a while........it was freeing in many ways.

I think that we all interpret the Bible as it aplies to us in the moment. I also think this the best way to read the Bible. Let God talk you as you read. I learned more from just letting the spirit minister to me in a read then any teaching from any man who interpreted the Bibe for me. NO The details don't matter that much. What matters is you and God.....others may never see it like God shows it to you......On the other hand others may really get blessed when you share from the heart what God has showed you.........today.......not 15 year old way teachings.

Born from above meaning heaven........Heaven is only understood in the spiritual.....to me as part of now.....heaven is now.....heaven is part of us.....heaven is a state of mind.......God inside minded Paul said "To be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritual minded is life and peace". Our first birth is carnal........though it could not have happened if the Spirit where not involved. Dead in sins............Dead because we are not where the life is.....in the spirit. I believe the life has always been there for all...........but we see not. We live not..................Then one day...........Bam! We breath it in.......we get effected by the life.......We get bumped by love...........We get born to the new possibilities of the real life that has always been there......we get born again...................... Now we can take part in the effecting, bumping, living in such a way that life emits from us for the birthing of more life and more life and more life...................... I see the sonship right of Ministry of reconciliation there. Patrick

Well, religion seems to be to blame for a whole lot of wars, killings, segrigations..........inability to compromize. People tend to say....it is not the religion it is the people in the religion....well I agree with that. It is the peole who say that they are following a religiouse principle such as "kill the infidels". There can be "bad" principles in all religion I guess. Paul broke it down to whatever is not of love is sin..............When principle trumps love, it is sin. Now I know I'll get in some trouble for that one. Seems to me that no religion is immune from being used for the cause of hate. Seems to me that no religion is immune from being used for the cause of Love. When people use religion in the negative you can check the context, because they probably don't be that all religion is bad. Patrick

Howdy Roy from Radcliff. I like the way you search your heart for what the Spirit is saying in you.........you'll never fit in in Religion. As you said Religiion is a bondage..........and God intends us to be free. Now, Faith, hope, and love these three.....but the greatest of these is love.........Why? Faith changes.....we evolve in faith as we get involved with God. God works from involution where our approach has to be on of evolution. God is all and we are on the road to self realization....we evolve. Hope changes.........Again our hope or our look into the future changes as our faith evolves, so our hope evolves. A small example is once one may have believed in the hope of the rapture and as they saw more or less in scripture and God brought them to a place where they could no longer stomach God Pulling a group of saved folks away why leaving the world to it's damnation......our hope changes to better hope........ Love evolves as well but it never changes. Love is the same as it was when Jesus Gave his life for the world and commanded us to do the same. Faith is bound by doctrine. Hope is bound by doctrine. The heretics keep their few in their bondage but the love is never bound. The love transends the heresy. You know that heresy is well interpreted as sect......sectarianism. In every group love is not bound. How do we learn these things? Trial and error. Searching and finding. Scientific laws of the Spiritual word we stumble upon. Keep lifting Radcilff Roy, Patrick

cman, I don't use scripture much anymore so I'll mainly be shooting from memory. How many times is "Born again" use in the Bible? I think it is better seen as "Born from above". A heavenly birth. A Spirit birth. Now from experience I say get born again as many times as it takes. We can have a re-birth daily. A re-inspired by Spirit. I've never been a "once saved always saved" Guy. Salvations come when needed. On the other hand we can know that we know that we know..........that we have the Spirit of God and that God talks to us and teaches us and is always with us..................it comes with experience of continually turning to the Spirit, even when we don't feel the Spirit would be seen with us in a place, time like this. God loves us........first and most important premise of Christianity. Patrick

Howdy Folks, I'm trying to remember the five sonship rights.............as taught in PFAL. I think I remember 3..........Righteouse, Sanctified, Redeemed? Why mention? Sarah and I have been getting involved in a new church and some of the teaching reminds us of PFAL........we found ourselves taking about sonship rights the other day and could not remember them all..........is that a good thing? Thanks, Patrick

Hey Waysider........actually Wierwille did not come up with "law" of believing..........It predates him by many centuries.......the is a book out maybe you have heard of called "The Secret". If you want to see where Wierwille got his law from I'd suggest it. Oprah recomends it. I am currently reading "Science of Mind" by Holmes.....I bought the book....... It is not that we have to put effort into "thinking things into manifestation"...there is no effort involved.....it is called the law of attraction.....what we think about comes into our lives, good or bad, like it or not.......that is why we have to pay attention to what we let into our minds............the renewed mind. The renewed mind is one of those good things that of you got hurt by TWI........Don't give up on the renewed mind...............Course you know that. Patrick

Hi sudo......... Sarah and I met in a cult (TWI)..........actually it was not TWI it was after the split in a group that stayed together at that time and kept on "believing". Something was right at that time in that cult...............It was the love and believers.........I know that everone's experience is different, ours was good at the time, we where walking with God and eachother. We lost that. We went through many years looing for folks who walk with God and eachother in a godly manner and had some really dry hard times as God helped us get rid of our falsehoods.............I trust God will continue to help us get rid of our falsehoods..........Why? Because He love us. The first Premise of Christianity is that God loves you........ To us....yes it looks similar to a cult we have been involved in. Thans, Patrick

Howdy folks, A while back when I started posting under this nick, I got a lot of feed back from a lot of people.........Thanks. Here is my report. I got a daytime Job, making about the same mony, and we have gotten involved in a Church. The experiences we have had in this church in Albuquerque have be outstanding. Here is a link to the church. http://cslabq.org/index.htm The church changed it's name recently so they did not have to constantly explain "who they where not" The changed their name from "First Church of Religious Science of Albuquerque" because they where often confused with "Christian Scientists" and "Scientology". Religious Science also known as "Science of Mind" is founded on the teachings of Ernest Shurtleff Holmes. Here is a link to one of Ernest Shurtleff Holmes books. http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/som/index.htm I've been reading through the book and attending church functions. They are real people who truly want to walk in the Spirit and live Love. Sarah and I have been recieving great healing, comfort, fellowship, life and peace here...........thanks for the prayers that went out for us. Patrick

Belle, I really appreciate your posts. They are so full and I only answer a bit or them. I don't know how to take quotes a little at a time. Anyhows, The perfect job would be day shift 8-4 or 7-3 making a buck more then what I'm making now.....oh heck make it two. With say, some overtime as wanted. Maybe eight hours a week. Thanks everyone for the welcomes........caring group here.

My 24 hour shift is a security Job. I sit in my truck and read a book. Finnished my Robert Ludlum book last week. Saterday evening through sunday eveneing. My full time job is Machinist 2nd shift. Thanks for asking. The Job I'm going to turn down was another machining job with worse 2nd shift hours, bene's little more expensive..........Can't give into temptation there.

OK, Belle Thanks for the coffee and welcome ""What, specifically, do you two want and need for your "spiritual nurturing"? "" I don't think that anything will work for our spiritual nurturing if I don't make some life changes. I applied for another Job and they loved me........But looks like more of the same for a buck more an hour.............. I pretty much agree with you. Out with the old........the old TWI will not work in our lives now. As far as checking out churches, sure a bit, but we have some dilemmas that keep us from getting too close. One of them is my schedual. The others can be worked through bet we have to fix the schedual thing first. Thanks for your care

Sure enough, Thank you White Dove.

I enjoyed ready about your experience. Since I started this thread I realized a few things. The reason that I have had trouble in the past is greatly do to the fact that I worked odd shifts and I worked alot. I use to work 60 hour weeks. It really did not leave me time to cultivate friendship......the type friendships that I was talking about. As Sarah is always quick to say "To have friends you have to be friendly". Something for me to work on. BTW: I missed Stub1's post too. That is why I replied to you and The Evan and did not reply to Stub1.

Howdy Folks, I learned alot from this thread. I'd say I was a bit narrowminded when I first posted it. I came to the realization that I was not nearly as devastated from TWI as a lot of folks where and are. When I got back from Korea, the breakup had already occurred. I was only involved with the actual TWI for less then a year. I went to one ROA and then got sent to Korea. After Korea I hooked up with the folks who chose not to choose a loyalty of men...........So heck what do I know? Not much. Thanks for the replies and the personal messages.

Thanks for the welcome. "all 9 all the time" was just an example. If that one made no sense to you fine. Was there anything that worked for you? Different things seem to work at different times for different people. TWA worked for a purpose in it's time. Maybe it was the use of half truths? What was the good half? See what I'm driving at? Giving and recieving. When you give you are able to recieve more. Works with ministry. When you minister, you give, and you are able to recieve more in order to keep giving. Mabe a lot of people just look at the abuse of that concept. Seems like God works with us when we work with Him as well. If we put forth en effort we are able to receive a benefit. Why are you a Christian? For the benefits. Well did not get what I was expecting or looking for from this thread. I blame myself for being a poor communicater. Rough crowd. Anyhows I won't be able to reply until sunday night because I'm going on a 24 hour shift............Thanks for the replies though.

Sprry for the vagueness. I'm saying there was some stuff there that actually worked.........what worked about it for you? Prove all things, hold fast to what is true. Maybe not. I think that I believed and still to that when a certain thing is needed, some empowerment from the Lord, we can walk in that manifestation............. I still believe that........yeah "all nine......daha dah dah" can be understood differently by different people I guess. Oh we have talked about it........I'm sure there is too much law, too many rules for us that we just could not live by. Back after 15 years out? Nope. To tell you the truth I have Idea what is going on with TWI. I'm pretty sure that I would not fit in though.

Wow I missed the Barbeque. Howdy Texas folks. Sarah and I where married in El Paso. We Fellowshipped in Killeen, Waco, Austin, for a bit as well before we moved on to Kentucky. After reading the Texas Thread I was impressed with how Big texas is. For being so huge I was also impressed that I did not see anyone I recognized posting here. Anyhows We are in New Mexico now........Someone said "a suburb of texas".

Roy, I'm supprized I never met you before. I worked at Dana Corporation out there in E-town for 9 years. I read you story on you web site and know all the same people. Anyhows Building blocks is a great topic. I think that the most basic building block for spiritual living is "God love you". Knowing the love of God for you is the first basic leason of Christianity. "For God so loved the World........." Peace Roy

I'm thinking this is the best place to start this thread. Sarah and I have been talking about things that where right about the TWI back in the 80's. The 80's is all that we have to go on because we have not been involved since. After the split we fellowshipped with some other for several years and had some good times too. I'm looking for bullet comments like, The Way was great because we had a place to minister "inflow outflow". One thing about the doctrine of the PFAL that really worked was "All NINE all the TIME" I'm not looking for arguement about a certain doctrine and how it is bad even though you think it is good.............We can start another thread for TWI was horrible because..............