Schwaigers

Zixar ... I think the saying that the Moon is "made of green cheese" must have come from somebody who ate green cheese (moldy stuff? psychodelic effects?) and realized the similarity with the craziness brought on by the Moon. Well ... OK ... it's a little far-fetched, but the saying never made sense to me, so I had to come up with something. And, Zix, those cheeses you named aren't really green anyhow. -Pat

Sorry to be so flakey, George. My dad was an electrical engineer, Purdue graduate. I grew up having to be the balance in my family between: -the total black-and-white, right-and-wrong, factual, scientific, zero imagination kind of thinking and the -unexplainable, never proven, more colorful, subjective, magical stuff. Obviously, this was my end of the see-saw. Come on, George. There's no harm in theorizing about the Moon. I'm not starting a new church or anything like that. You make me miss my dad ... seriously. He was just about the nicest guy I ever knew. He was really smart and full of data and statistics. But he said he needed my craziness to keep him sane. Besides, the Moon is over now. -Pat.

George, Dear ... Be careful. In TWI's Advanced Classes, they taught us that our personal experiences with spirit-stuff (ghosts or omens or things like that) were all just tricks of the Adversary. They said none of those experiences were valid, because that's what the Word says -- well, at least their version of the Word. Horse feathers !! If I experience something, then it's real. And if a whole bunch of people experience it, then it's really real. The Full Moon is like that. It's not the Adversary. It's not our imagination. And Science doesn't explain everything. Besides, we can't change what the Moon does or doesn't do. It's just fun to think about it. -Pat

Zixar -- Ever heard of "Moon Huts"?? As a fellow Scorpio, I'll respectfully wait for an answer before I gross you out with the details. I am told that Scorpio midwives are strange indeed. That's me. Dot -- I was charge nurse for an Adolescent Psych unit for about four years. This was a private hospital, which unlike public hospitals (not much subsidizing), was very conscious of budget issues. When the hospital census was low, and administration would start fretting over finances, the Nursing Staff would assure them that the Full Moon was coming, and all would be well. We were always right. They would even schedule additional nurses for those nights !! -Pat

Jim, there are no large cities in Wyoming. Our town has 655 people. The sky is gigantic. We are in the midst of a winter storm as I type this, but even last night the Moon was visable and sorta spooky through the snow. I think its effects are just as powerful on country folk as on city folk. There's just fewer of us to hurt each other out here in the wilderness. -Pat

The Full Moon is just about upon us. People go nuts on the Full Moon. Babies get born. My job experience (psych nursing and midwifery) has convinced me that this is true. As the old Moon has gotten fatter in the past couple of days / nights, folks around me - and myself - are getting really weird. If things have been wacko in your house or job or neighborhood, hang in there. This Moon will start shrinking soon. See how devilish I've become outside of TWI ?? But I know this is real. I've learned to avoid touchy subjects and grumpy people when the Moon looks like this. I've learned to keep my own mouth shut, and wait a few days. -Pat

Happy Birthday from snow-y Wyoming !! You can come to our house for cake, but you'd better hurry. We have a blizzard coming in tonite. Brrrrrrr !! Love, Pat

What about guilt? Even if some current "believers" are not being nailed for violating previous TWI laws, I bet these violators continue to struggle with guilt. If they don't feel a little guilty, then they've actually rejected some major Way doctrines, and I would think that people who are this bold would just leave. So ... assuming the guilt is there, in sizable doses, the BOD still essentially has control of it's people. The previous legalism was like being in jail: tight, dark, cold. Control by guilt is more like barbed wire around a pasture. You may have a bigger space, but you're still not free. And the barbs are right there in your own mind. Open the gate, innies, it's nice out here. -Pat schwaiger@direcway.com

Garth, dear ... If it wasn't mind-control, then why is it so hard to get my own thoughts back. Oh boy - I know I'm asking for a lot of heckling with that question. And no more jokes about my head-on, Griz !! As I recall, you were right there praying for me that day. The catscan said I was OK, remember? It's TWI that messed with my mind, not the wreck. Seriously, Garth, I'm still shaking off a lot of screwed up thinking leftover from the Way. Isn't that the same as mind control? From my experience, that's what I'd call it. And you didn't have my experience. Isn't that what Hope is talking about here? -Pat schwaiger@direcway.com

So, Garth, do you mean that some ex-TWI people use "mind-control" as an excuse for the hardship they experienced in the Way? Maybe I just don't understand what you're saying. Do you think we got hurt because we didn't take responsibility for our own decisions? To some degree that may be true, but I know abuse really did happen - still happens in there - and we need to be compassionate to those who were abused and come here to GS to talk about it. I think when we claim that "mind control" is an exaggeration of TWI abuse, that's when it feels like we're calling each other liars, just to get attention. Some of us were controlled and hurt more than others. Some stories truly are unbelievable. But when an unbelievable thing happens to you, it helps to have somebody believe it. -Pat schwaiger@direcway.com

Garth, Do you think mind-control, progamming, and brainwashing are not real? -Pat schwaiger@direcway.com

Hope, Think about WHOOOO exactly the Greasespotters are. We are a bunch of fairly bright people who somehow got convinced to not accept what our brains told us. In particular, I think of the Advanced Classes, where LCM told us that any personal experiences we might have had with ghosts, telepathy, visions, etc ... that these were all just tricks. He convinced us that our own experiences didn't count. A lot of us believed that crap. And just like many other bad habits aquired in TWI, it takes awhile to get rid of this one. A lot of us may still be denying things that really did happen to us, because that's a part of our programming that we still haven't cleaned out. We don't believe reality even when it's right there in front of us. Please don't misunderstand -- I've had some of my own posts here on GS ripped apart as though I had lied. But we gotta remember who frequents here, and how we each heal at a different pace. Love ya, Hope. -Pat schwaiger@direcway.com

She knew. She had to have known. Why did she stay with him? To set an example of a faithful wife? How could she want other women to follow her lead in this situation, and thus go through the same horrible kind of relationship? Or did she actually think this was acceptable for the "Man of God"? For any man? Definitely she was a victim - one of many. But why did she stick with the creep? -Pat schwaiger@direcway.com

$30 a month. Hope, you were in the Sixth Corps. Family Corps numbers were four years behind regular corps. So at the same time you were in residence, the Family Corps was "Family 2". We were in Family 20, eighteen years later. Guess how much money we made per month. $30. That was for each adult, and $10 for each kid. For the few weeks we were in Family 24, the wages were still the same. Geeeeez. -Pat schwaiger@direcway.com

Oldies Guy ... I don't know how old you are, but do you remember that song called "Hotel California"? There's a line in the song that goes like this: "You can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave". Several times I've read your comments that nobody was forced to stay in TWI ... We decided to stay ... We should accept the consequences ... It was our own choice ... And so forth. Speaking as a die-hard who got kicked out of Family Corps more than once, let me tell you about your notion that "The door was always open". To go into residence, you must be debt-free. For most of us, that meant getting rid of everything we owned - our home, our furniture, our pots and pans, you name it. We entered Corps with nothing but the required items on the "What to bring" list. The first time we got kicked out, we found refuge at a state park cabin. (The park was closed for the season). Three kids, a bunch of books, an old car, and our 100% wool mittens. We had no jobs, no friends to help us, and about one week's worth of survival money. Scarey business. At the end of the week, LCM confronted the FC Coordinator for dismissing us, so we were allowed back in. We were told to "Obey, and keep our mouths shut". After that, we were motivated to obey NOT because we were devoted believers (like when we first got involved with TWI), but because being homeless sucks. It also feels pretty horrible to believe that you have been rejected by God, and it's really frightening to be without friends or family. The second time we got kicked out, they told us to go to Wichita. We are from Wyoming. Wichita is an alien planet to us. Again, no money, no jobs, no nothing. But we took our kids and drove to Kansas. We got a cheap apartment, promising to pay at the end of a month. We found mattresses in an alley and brought them home to sleep on. We found food in dumpsters, and cooked it using our expensive L.E.A.D. eqipment. Ah yes, the abundant life. I'm talking about a professional couple, college grads, in their 40's, with two kids on the honor roll -- living destitude. See how EASY it was to just walk through that "open door" you refer to? Later we came across many friends who experienced similar nightmares. One family told us they were followed out of state by Way leadership, and had to travel backroads at night to finally evade them. Slavery? Maybe not. Maybe so. But Oldies, please reconsider that TWI captives can "check out any time you want". It's hard. Most of what I've posted here has to do with material consequences. The emotional impact is another level. The song says "You can never leave". That pertains to the emotional stuff. -Pat schwaiger@direcway.com

OK. So it would probably never hold up in court. I still think we came darn close to working (and thinking) like slaves in residence. Even the sexual incidents seem like abuses that slaves have faced traditionally. Many TWI followers still fall into the category of people who have "lost all power of resistance". My back shows no scars from being whipped, but my mind does. schwaiger@direcway.com

We have a dictionary, dated 1908, which contains these two definitions: #1 "Slave" - A captive in servitude, any one in bondage, one who has lost all power of resistance; and #2 "Slavery" - The state of being entirely under the will of another. I remember hearing that one of the lawsuits against TWI included a complaint regarding "Slavery". At the time, I remember flashing back on many 16-hour work-days at the Indiana Campus, followed by 4 more hours in class, and not enough to eat. I remember thinking about how the Junior Corps were required to immediately work at their assigned jobs upon return home from school. I just figured the legal complaint was in regards to this kind of drudgery and physical labor. But after reading these old definitions, it seems that not only Corps in residence could have been deemed "slaves", but also many people out in the local fellowships. Certainly, this does not compare to the African Americans who suffered through our country's early history as slaves; they were held against their will, while we were coerced into slavery, thinking it was all voluntary. "Lost all power of resistance"????? That was us. "Entirely under the will of another"????? Hmmmmmmm. Maybe it could be a legal argument. And we could sure back it up with accounts of extended hours of work (beyond what's legal, even for an adult) and definitely many violations of child labor laws. Any slave tales out there? -Pat schwaiger@direcway.com

Interesting thread. Can we talk about the lasting effects of this seclusion thing? As for me, I have not been "secluded" for four years, but still find myself operating under that mind-set at times. I don't often go to church or get involved in Bible discussions these days, but when I do ... I consistently slip into that notion of "I know so much more than all these idiots", which is an attitude about spiritual stuff that TWI programmed into me, and which they used to justify our seclusion. Likewise, I still have trouble - a LOT of trouble - trusting people. Now, part of that problem is of course because I trusted TWI and got burned, but some of it is also because it was pounded into us to beware of anyone who was not a "believer". I think both my arrogant attitude about knowing the Word, and my distrust of others is the result of several years of seclusion. - Still shaking off the past. -Pat schwaiger@direcway.com

We were in family 20 for almost 2 years and family 24 for 6 weeks. Feel free to e mail us at patndave@ccorb.com patndave@ccorb.com