FullCircle

You should read it in the original=since you can't, you can't disprove what I am saying There are no originals=see told you so. The present tense of the past participle (apply english rules to ancient greek) of the dominating superlative=have your brains shut down and stopped thinking (listen deeper to my words, deeper deeper) now so you can just accept my bovine excrement of doctrine yet?

Hamsters on a wheel for da Lord Always busy and always moving, but never getting anywhere.

Now now now Mr. Hammeroni, don't you know why real success was always just around the corner? Don't you??? It was because you weren't do all of the five all the time. When we weren't witnessing (releasing), prayer (s.i.t), reading-studying(retaining), tithing and fellowshipping, that WAS the cause of things not coming together for us for the more abundant life. And DON'T forget, it you were taking in more light (from studying) than you were releasing (witnessing) you were really putting yourself out of balance and whack and no damn wonder things weren't working for us! Talk about imaginary problems and impossible cures!

The love of God in renewed mind in manifestation translates--Thank you Sir, May I have another The Renewed Mind, the key to power-- power to keep us captives at their will and whim Born to live, born again to serve--so quick bring me my cloves/mints and coffee done the way I like it Clean house clean living--good way to explain away why so many don't have what the rest of society does Traveling light--see above Do you know what killed the little boy? Do you, do you know what killed that little boy? Yeah it was the freaking car moron.

hmmm you're right. All that bother and no legs or arms to go shopping after becoming rich. Okay, sand in your bathingsuit is the beginning of a rash. I think someone already said it here, if not here then it was another thread. TWI was a group of cliches'. Loaded language. One statement constituted a whole doctrine. Only common sense and hesitantcy was often disregarded as fear and common sense or critical thought was squelched by these one liners. I have no problem with borrowing other's sayings and statements, it is how the statements were used to promote TWI doctrine. Like in PFAL VP reads the scripture (was it Psalms?) that the fear of a man bringeth a snare. I always understood that to mean (along with others) that my personal fear of things brought a snare, entrapped me. Later on when I read that scripture along with those devilish marginal notes of the publisher, it was understood that fearing others as in fearing other men in general, brought a snare. That rang more true to me as it was fear of what TWI said, what the leadership said, what anyone would say that kept me goose stepping in tune to TWI. Doing what others wanted because you were afraid of them brings a bigger trap.

Sand in the shell of an oyster turns into a pearl. Not all irritations are bad.

Thank you, Kit for posting that link concerning the backside of the ROA. I apologizing for bringing up the subject again when it was already discussed here. My heart ached and rebroke over two issues I saw. One if you were the corps person who had to sacrifice time and salary to be there only to work like a dog, it wasn't fun at all. And it wasn't fun for the others who lived there and had to work as well. That is a big difference from those who went and basically hung out all day, so memories would be very very different. The rebreaking of my heart was in reading Radar's comments about the dead WOWS. That had to be horrible to deal with the confusion and fear and grief to pass that on. That year I had gone WOW for my second time, I knew at least one person in that accident. I did not find out about them dying till nearly year later when I was at the Advanced Class and ran into a mutual friend who mentioned it to me and became confused as I reacted to the news. He was surprised that I did not know and was never informed. Then I had move in with a corps couple after that ROA 1986 as apprentice corps and found out the accident was blamed on them for 'being out of fellowship' and 'for not being able to get it together.' Last night these memories replayed in my mind and I relived all that and realized just how vunerable our young lives were and how much we didn't matter. Here are people, good people, people in their twenties and more, giving up their lives, giving up their jobs, giving up whatever security they had to go where ever the hell TWI thought to send them with just a few hundred measely dollars in their pockets. When we left TWI grounds in our caravan we got onto a road, I don't remember if it was highway or not and I don't think so cause all I remember is two lanes, one in either direction but we were going at a good clip. I was in back of the caravan when all the cars ahead of us starting swerving at the same speed on to the shoulder of that road. I remember asking out loud, more in a yell if everyone ahead of us had lost their minds. Then I saw what happened. Some freaking idiot stopped his truck right in the lane we were in and left it there and we were all bearing down on it, right behind each other. He was standing on the side of the road just looking at us as we all swerved around. I gave him the finger. THEN SOME OF THEM NEVER GOT AWAY FROM TWI GROUNDS AND DIED RIGHT THERE. IT ALMOST HAPPENED TO US AT THE SAME ROA. Any memorials for them? Any memorial for my friend? No, just a bunch of devil poison blaming them for their own deaths. That could have been any one of us and it would not have mattered one iota with TWI leadership. Out of fellowship my foot. Word over the World, positive memories...great food and guitar singing and music? None of that, not one aspect of that can measure up to the life of one human being. For God's sake, why didn't we matter? Here we are, giving our all including our lives and all you get is that it was your own fault if you died? There is something seriously wrong with that, people being treated as diposable as Kleenix. I now hate the ROA and for all it stood for. It was their version of the Bible that mattered only. Human life came last.

Drambuie: date rape drug of old farts

Discerning of Spirits: A conman's ability to size up your opponent while they're in a suit and tie to figure out how to best control them. Prophecy, Inspired utterance, Word of knowledge: Using your ability to size up aka discern spirits to control others via yelling, placing phobias of devils and government agents, deprogrammers and presenting the ever distressed state of dying aka becoming a greasespot. Dechomai...to sit in a class for hours on end and actually retain some of that crap. Labano...the ability to parrot back what you dechomai-ed laleo...LCM with a microphone

For a ministry that claimed to be biblical research and claimed to hold the Word higher than anything else, they sure missed the scripture about not preaching themselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord. But then they also missed a few other scriptures like he who would be greatest would be the servant of all and NOT BE SERVED BY ALL. Being true to yourself is the way to go. Shakespear Then we can be true with others. FullCircle

My first ROA was 1977 and it was at Sidney. I agree that 1978 it was at HQ for the first time. I remember it was sometime in the ROAS after that VP lamenting from the main podium about having to sacrifice his farm land to be trampled on by us for the ROA.

Cool. Just a thought. It doesn't do a hill of beans for God whether we liked the ROA or whether we disliked the ROA. It does not affect anything. It is all just different view points and perspectives. Some people love camping, some people love roughing it and some people love working their tails off while others play. What works for one doesn't work for another and vice versa. It doesn't make us better or lesser or more spiritual or not. It doesn't make someone cleaner or dirtier spiritually if they can come up with great memories or not. What it does show is how people react and remember an event that may have been suited to their personalities and personal likes or not. The point is, or my point is, if I had to do it all over again, would I? No, I wouldn't. It is NOT my cup of tea. But at the time I felt compelled to go whether I was going WOW or returning, which I did twice. So here I was, along with others that I know of, going and participating in a festival/gathering/what have you that I would not attend under any other circumstance and really didn't prefer going as it was. So am I going to remember it fondly? No. Is that bad? No. Take me to stock car races and I will complain too. I don't like that stuff. Take me to an antique sale and I will come back raving and wanting to go again. It is just personal preferences. I didn't need to travel all across the country to get to Ohio, planes and changing planes and layovers to be rained on or listen to the Word the Word the Word being taught. I had more 'believers' in my area than I could shake a stick at as well. (nevertheless the expense of flying in from California to Ohio) What is ironic that even to this day, being so out of TWI and being so far removed from TWI's doctrine, it still feels 'wrong' to say openly that I personally disliked the ROA and dreaded it when it came around every year. It is not bad to say that, it is not bad to feel that way. I am more than confident that no one in China got possessed because I feel this way :) hehehe Oh and I never had a WOW burger either. Never wanted one. I don't think the ceiling will fall in on me for that *ducks*

As an aside note, I believe VP died before Athletes aka Spazy Ballerinas went onto stage to perform for audiences. Or did it all occur in the same month, May 1985? I remember traveling from our Vey Home about May or June 1985 to see one of the first perfomances of Leotards a Leapin' It was a mind error (mistake) not a heart error. We're watching and know you screwed up but it wasn't because you figured us out for the sheet we are and acted on that knowledge. It's the Word, the Word and nothing but the Word. --Heil Hitler Heil Hitler Heil Hitler or wave your little red book around like in the Chinese Culture revolution. Everyone needs a cheer. Seed of the Serpent--People who had more fame and made more money than the envious TWI Leadership.

Thank you for your post, I know you are a sweetie. It's just weird how some of us thought we owed everyone an explanation. I remember when I used to freak when I ran into Way people who were still in when I was out. Just strange, but Waydale helped me to get over that. I supposed as time went on and I became more confident in myself and my own spirituality and didn't need it to be approved by others, in addition to meeting online people who shared my views of TWI, I was able to get over much and was able to feel I belonged. If that makes sense.

Feelings come and go but the word of God abideth for ever--shut the hell up about your heart being torn out/being hurt, used or abused because we don't care about you, we just care that our doctrine reigns supreme Only a devil spirit would talk bad about a leader (LCM in one of the advanced seminars) Hey you packing a bunch of 'friends' there? We'll know if you point out a short coming in one of our leaders. I wouldn't go to church with you either--they won't let me in so I started my own cult. We're in the primary will of God--we got the listing and we'll let you know where you stand too. Silence covers a multitude of sins--a corrupt version of Bible scripture used to keep you from talking about alleged sexual misbehaviors of leadership and if this doesn't make you feel guilty to keep your mouth shut, see number 2 about who talks bad about leadership. All nine all the time--an impossible juggling feat designed to make you turn inward to police yourself to see if you are living up to par and to keep you distracted from what leadership is doing. I am going to get that guy healed/in the class/delivered--I am god, screw the primary will I will accomplish what I set out to do because I am almighty

That is great that your friends think it is wonderful. I used to speak to Cynthia Kisser at the Cult Awareness Network before it was sued out of existence about this very subject. ExTWIers thinking that they owed an explanation about where they had been for the past ten years and what they were doing. It can be detrimental for people, especially for people who first leave destructive groups to 'confess' their cult involvement, especially since they may feel that it should be shared with all who ask queestions like about where they have been, what they were doing moving around so much etc. It is information that at best, should be shared with severe discrimination. My husband and I made a mistake, several times over when in churches, confessing to those we thought were friends that we were once involved in TWI. We were never treated the same again. Some people can't handle that type of information. When I first left TWI and went to a Methodist church and told the Pastor that I was searching and trying to learn and that I had just left TWI, (he really didn't know that much about it, just heard it was a cult) his manner became condescending to me. You would think I would have learned after that but after experiencing once or twice more, I realized that most people cannot handle the truth. Out of all the friends I have now, only one friend knows about my invovlement but that is a very limited knowledge. It is not something I need to relive by sharing and only being here is where I take out my whole past involvement and look at it and even here, I don't share everything. Hey Jumpin, you know me. I will mail you :)

I think, at least for me and for several of my friends who all exited TWI within a five year span of each other, after having ALL of our young adult lives invested(pre teens to somewhere in our thirties) into TWI, we came out to find that many social cliques were already formed before us leaving TWI. Many of us moved from our original communities (and I am not saying that is a bad thing) so people who grew up together may have stayed together and moved through young to middle adult hood together, joining the PTA and social clubs and not what. Their circle of friends were already established. If you were like me, your parent or parents died while you were in TWI so coming out of TWI and finding your family circle a little kahilter because of such changes may have made it harder to fit back in. For me, this was the hardest thing to deal with. Finding people who had room in their social circles for new people. I have now lived in one community for ten years, a homeowner with a marriage and children. We are established. I have joined the PTA and other clubs and through time (TIME being the key word) have made associations and friends and established 'networks.' But it didn't happen over night. It took work, it took patience and it took realizing that unlike TWI mindset, people just don't automatically accept you into their group and may hold you at arms length until they get to know you and learn to trust you. I figure it is like finding people who have been playing a good rousing game of Rummy or Scrable or something and in the middle of the game some one new wants to pop right in and join. It does upset the equilibrium of those already playing. So what I recommend is allowing people to get to know you. You can join the PTA if you have children in school, volunteer to be a room parent, if you go to church, join any social circles within the church or prayer groups. Never mention TWI. I sure don't. NOt any more. I lost more friends by admitting to it and no, no one needs to know that I was involved once in a cult. It's none of their business along with many other personal things that we are not obligated to share. I know from the postings that TWI evolved into an organization that didn't readily accept you unless you jumped through specific hoops and I will say that was also true in the earlier years of TWI but it was a little more covert. You weren't taken seriously unless you performed well.

Don't worry, it gets easier the longer you are out of TWI. When I first left I felt like an oddball, and I thought I would never fit in. I felt like I owed everyone an explanation about being in a cult. I got over that quickly. Hehe. First thing I quit smiling at everyone, and the world didn't fall apart. I realized I was NOT everyone's best friend and I sure as shooting didn't want to be either. Chit chat, small talk. It's easy. Talk about traffic, the newest coffee flavor, a new book you read (go get some) things like that.

SafariVista, hehe it is funny now but then I was scared and rightfully so. That is what happens when you have a bunch of untrained volunteers standing guard. Leaving a female alone in the woods when there are reports of unwelcomed males running through it. I still didn't have a hat either to make me look official. VeganXTC, thank you The thing with the ROA, at least with me was that it was bascially mandatory. I know some will say 'Oh gee you complain about anything' or "how can you complain about a good time like the ROA?" To me the ROA wasn't good. It was mandatory, you had to go. You had to get your vacation from work at that time or answer to leadership about it. That being the very first basis or premise of going already casts a shadow on it. The ROA's I went to were never free flowing with lots of music and food and people gathering to fellowship voluntarily. To me it was regimented. Home fellowships were instituted so you better not be walking around the grounds at that time and I think that started in 1980. Food was served when they wanted it served. You had to go when the tents were open or miss out. They started closing the smaller tents that had the Farmer's Market and WOW burgers and Pizza during the evening to night service. Never mind the flies trying to land in your food while you ate. One hand was a waving them away while you ate with the other. I had to make appointments to 'fellowship' with friends. They were all too busy running around, working and busy with assignments just to sit down and fellowship. The music was regimented as well. As a matter of fact, I have less memories about listening to great music than anything else. God forbid when you came out of the showers if you put your makeup bag plus your hairdryer and brushes all on the makeup table before you. Some shower nazi would walk over and yell at you for not being decent and in order and everything you weren't using exactly at that time went on the floor. The morons around me also doing their hair and makeup would look at you like you were possessed and I actually had the audicity to ask them when did they come up with that stupid rule, having gone to ROA's since 1976 (I think that one was in Sydney?) and the morons around you tell you it was always that way. Yeah, maybe in cult brain land it was but in reality.......no it wasn't it always like that, it was a new rule. baaaaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Sunburned with blisters, mosquito bites on top of the sunburn, no comfortable place to sit when you're in tent city, drowned as a rat when those horrendous storms came up, twisted ankles walking with sandals on top road rutted with truck marks, oh yeah those wonderful tractors pulling wagons of people? I was in an accident once with one of them. The guy driving spaced out and to avoid hitting a car on the last night of a ROA (1985?) he drove into a ditch with all of us and we tipped over. Thank the powers that be it didn't turn all the way over on us and we all needed help getting out. But if it did turn all the way over on us and injured or killed us, it was just the devil, right? Or we were outta fellowship. Just imagine what it takes to be outta fellowship at a great spiritual movement like the ROA? (gags) I'd rather have a bbq in my backyard under my great elderly maple tree. I promise it won't fall on us and you can bring your guitars or whatever and we can have fun safely. You can even have use of my private bathroom.

pfffffffffffffff I never got no stinking hat. Seriously, I didn't get one although I remember others wearing them. Figures.

Rock of Ages 1979 I believe it was. (you know what is scary? I can recall events and years way back when but if I didn't look down, I would forget what I was wearing or don't ask me what I ate for breakfast this morning) Anyway, someone already mentioned the sheriff's car on that road that separated the main ROA grounds from the woods where the House of His Healing Presence was. The sheriff wasn't there to be blessed or to be in amazement of us wonderful clones but rather he sounded his siren anytime anyone did not walk a straight line across the street from the campgrounds over to the forest. Zig zag a bit, walk along the road a bit and whaooooooooooooooaaaaaaa it went off. It had something to do with that road being public property and the whoever that be in charge of that stuff, outside of TWI was certain that no Wayfers were going to be blocking it. It was also the road when the townies came through at all hours honking their horns to bother us. I did bless patrol back in the woods that ROA. It was dark and I was being eaten alive. I had the bolllessed opportunity to stand there in da dark, standing standing standing, flashlight off near the chalet and across from the public portajohns. I got to turn on my flashlight to illuminate the ground whenever someone had to heed the call of nature and I was instructed to flash the light in through the bottom portion of the screen on the front door of the portajohn so they could see. Their feet?? I guess that was important. Then a report came through that there were unwelcomed males running through the woods. So everyone takes off and leaves me their with the instructions not to let anyone pass on through to the chalet. I guess I was to bless them to death or something. *shrugs* So now I am scared and trying to believe up a storm. Ha. One morning VP and Ding Dong er I mean Dean Don called an early morning meeting inside the big top to explain an incident that occured the night before concerning people from TWI who were at the ROA and townies. I left that meeting confused because as VP related the events, none of it made sense but everyone cheered anyway. The last night of the ROA VP did a whole spiel on how screwed up we were because so many had backed out of going out WOW. Fear was ruining our lives don't we know and blah blah. Then he verbally attacked the FBI saying he knew that they were there cause he had a connection to the man upstairs and everyone cheered again. VP told them that had they asked him he would have let them in, and he knew what they were looking for, guns and that there weren't any. No we're no afeared, we just been told the FBI was infiltrating us. Ha.

Hi Wendy I was about your daughter's age when I got involved in 1976, that is before The Way International started by Victor Paul Wierwille broke up into little factions, one of which your daughter seems to becoming involved with at the moment. I will pray for her and you and that you are able to keep the lines of communication open with her and that her heart is reached. While she is living in a house filled with people, teens whatever who are of this group or are inclined towards this group, it will be hard for her to shake this experience off mentally. The best thing, besides speaking with her, is to get her away from them. I don't remember if you said she is going to school or not or working, but helping to get her own place and move pronto is necessary. I do hope you and your husband can reach her. As hard as it is to remain calm, you want to make sure you do not overdo it with emotions with her while speaking to her. While you think you are showing love and concern and that tears or a little anger or frustration is normal (and it is) while I was in TWI we were taught that was the devil messing with our parents and using whatever emotion the devil could raise in them to manipulate us out of The Way. Since these guys were part and parcel of The Way, I would not be surprised if they are still spouting that stuff. You also may want your husband to do much of the talking, as The Way denigrated women saying that there were easier used by the devil because they are more emotional and women who take charge (I do most of the talking in my household) or do the most talking are scorned by The Way. It may be good if you are connected to a church to speak to your Pastor or find a loving caring Pastor who would agree to speak with her if she is cool with it. Don't gang up on her and don't make her feel defensive. Provide a loving open atmosphere and find out what it is she really wants. I am sure that there are many wonderful churches in the area she lives that do excellent bible studies that she could join, if she knows where to find them. Definitely see if you can reach Steve Hassan. Google his name on the net and see if there is a contact to reach him or any of the groups or people that work to help people in situations like yourself. I wish you and your daughter well.

oh flalappadoo I even saw Tick being transported in a golf cart once. Well okay, that WAS a funny sight. I think they finally banned people going out WOW at the last minute, but then I am sure there are many who can testify that rule was broken for a select few. I don't know why we didn't see the red flags about an organization agreeing to that type of behavior because it did leave a mess and I heard that the majority of them that decided last minute did not last on the field. Perhaps that is the sole reason it was banned. I did go WOW, twice and I do admit that although I hated the ROA, the nights of commissioning were high times, It was pretty exciting. But the fact I went to cool places (grins) didn't hurt either. Homecoming was sort of a let down and trying to adapt to civilian life after that was rough for the first couple of months. What I hated as well at the ROA was taking a nap in my tent on a cold rainy night or damp so I felt cold rainy night and woke up just to be told that my tent mate had a boy in there and they had sex while I was sleeping and thought it was funny as hell. Like I needed that mind picture?????? Ya had to tell me???????????

I hated them all, seriously. I was a teenager to young woman spending how much of my time sitting down for hours remaining silent while everyone's eyes had to be glued to a t.v. screen. And that especially includes the PFAL class. What was even worse than sitting for three hours a night in front of a t.v. screen listening to VP drone on and on was sitting in a room with no t.v. because it was a audio tape class only. And even worse than that was being the chart lady with a list in my lap, listening for ONE sentence as a clue to tell me when to change the chart for the first time hearers. That was in the late 1970's. The big kahunas and their friends got to go outside and smoke their ciggies or congregate elsewhere during the class, but us peons (grad support s.i.t.ting like houses a fire) stayed put in our metal chairs laughing at the appropriate times at the same dumb jokes over and over again..why didn't they play cards on Noah's ark, I look under my bed and someone is either coming or going (dust bunnies). I wanted to LIVE my life but it seemed we were doomed to sit for classes and meetings and classes and more meetings. Oh yes, I forgot, don't forget the time out of our lives to set up and then break down. Sheesh. The only blessing or miracle is that we all weren't plagued with hemmoroids from all that sitting. Wait wait, one class I remember fondly is the Advanced Class 1986 in San Diego CA. Not for the information, god we already knew it by then from others sharing and just being duly involved in TWI. It was good only because I got to circulate and meet people and get into people's lives and make friends. That and perfect weather and a decent roof over your head didn't hurt either. Meal time was sing time. Recite Phillipians 4:13 now sing it, I can do all things through Christ who strengths me What is the definition of Discerning of spirits crowd mumbles in unison OKay, now sing it! hehehe

Year 2027, that was too funny! I remember one ROA, maybe it was 1980 one of my friends brought his father's old army tent. It was spacious, not like one year I woke up and someone outside had tripped over a wire on my pup tent and I found it collasped on me. I was so tired, I slept like that till morning. Anyway, this hellacious storm came up and the army tent had this large pole that just sat on the ground and I had to hold onto it to keep it from going over and the whole tent collasping. It was a fight in those winds. I kept yelling for help and I could only hear others yelling for help as they were trying to save their tents as well. Skyrider, my heart went out every year as I watched those guys ride the honeywagon around the upscale RV section of the ROA. The guy in front of the fan with his feet up should have had his chance to do the honeywagon. Too bad they never sold Coke/Pepsi or the diet form of it. I would pay people who were going into town to bring me back some, hehe.