FullCircle

Hello. I only have something quick to say because I am pressed for time right now. I would like to make a quick suggestion that may or may not apply to you but I hope you will think about it and even if it seems it doesn't apply to you, put it on your back burner so to speak and let it simmer? Leaving TWI was not an easy thing to do for many reasons. I was relatively 'young' when I left, early thirties. One of the issues that bothered me was how we were taught that those who 'triped out' would return to their old ways and it would be worse for them. I remember the scripture in Peter about a dog returning to his own vomit and the end being worse than it was before they got involved with TWI. First of all, reading that scripture in context, it is talking about leadership. NOT your average Christian believer. It is talking about Christian leaders who KNEW what was right and instead turned their backs on the truth of the gospel of Christ and used and exploited the Christian congregation for their own greed and lust. That is what Peter is talking about clouds without rain, tempests and whom the darkest dark is reserved for. Just an indication of what happens to leaders who use and abuse Christians while they are in the position of leadership. I spoke with Cynthia Kisser when I first got out. I have mentioned that several times. I feared that things would go wrong for me and my husband. That we would return to our old ways, and being teenagers when we became involved in TWI that meant drinking and drugs. It loomed over me as a big fear. She pointed out that many groups like TWI covertly plant suggestions in our minds that we can't live outside of the group or make us even afraid to attempt to try. We heard of stories how so and so left and got into a car accident, wasn't in fellowship and a tree fell on them (example) how they lost their minds or that they returned to drugs. We were programmed, some more severely than others because some people were less inpenatrable (sp) with these suggestions, but we were programed to self destruct if we ever left TWI, the royal household or whatever gooblygook name they were calling it at the time each person left. Do you see what I mean? For the longest time I thought there was NO life outside of TWI and that no one could suceed outside of it. I readily accepted that implanted suggestion. It was something I fought and stood against in my own mind and the light of reason and understanding dispelled the darkness that TWI wanted me to believe. You had a rough road. Know that being outside of TWI or not having a group to fellowship with and not knowing what to believe or what is right is not the end of life, but a beginning. It is a transition we make in our search. You don't have to self destruct or have your life fall to pieces. If you find yourself entertaining any thoughts along that nature, or find that tape (so to speak) running through the back of your mind, start erasing it. It's a lie. For many people including myself, true deliverance came when we got out of the darkness of TWI and into the light.

Hi Dot and thank you. I have read before posting again here, and have watched what happened, especially I noticed how Rascal was being hounded. I am not going to make a big deal of them responding to my post here and now, only because they have the right to respond one last time to what I said to them. I have to remind myself of what I was like in TWI, and I am not saying anyone here is in TWI but certainly if we think we learned nothing wrong, the attitude still prevails that we had when we thought we were absolutely right. I shudder at the way I treated people who disagreed with me when they came into my WOW home who dared to disagree with VP and the ministry. It takes a long time to unravel that type of thinking and learned behavior from our minds and hearts. It reminds me of a Shakespeare quote from MacBeth that goes something like, "Fair is foul and foul is fair." I did whatever I did to ensure that the 'legacy' of VP and company never was compromised by the 'deceived unbelieving.' Another thing that makes me ill how was that leadership was acute in cutting people apart with words. The bigger the leader, especially as we moved into the 1980's the more he could cut you to pieces with words. It was fairly the biggest sword of TWI, not the word of God but the ability to shred someone verbally and if done in front of an audience, the better. It was a good motivational tool as well. Rip/hound/humilate and basically wear someone down verbally, the rest of the platoon falls into submitted silence. It is my own personal opinion as I have watched, that has been happening here and I thought about stopping posting here because of it. Because I dont' want to be dragged into the mind frame of something I have fought so hard to get rid of and eventually being pushed hard enough I am afraid I would retaliate back. I am not afraid to admit that there are better people here than me in that they have handled such incidents better than I would have by now. Rascal, you're terrific :) topic change: I know what happened to me. I know of my 'uncomfortable' experiences with VP. I met him, unfortunately, several times in person. I also got the 'honor' of cleaning his dressing room at a heartbeat festival that they had in the '70's. I also know what happened with me and other ordained clergy and their claims of being taught by VP that is was okay to have other woman, blah blah. I am truly sorry for what you have gone through and what the other women have experienced. I cannot imagine the horror and terror in their souls and hearts and how they must have suffered. I cannot express my anger and rage at men who would prey upon any young woman, especially those whose self esteem already suffered being abused earlier in life. That makes those men and VP true blue predators. Nothing else fits and no bible verse can justify that. That is sheer evil. Put a three piece suit on it and give it an attache case and a dove pin on the lapel and that is just the outside covering a cesspool of greed and lust and a reprobate mind. topic change: VP is the real thing? He never taught a thing about salvation until what, session 7 of the class and then only for a very short time? VP's empahsis in the class was NEVER Jesus Christ. It was all about VP's stolen and newly dressed up doctrines now on parade. It was a class on mock spirituality. It mocked Christianity every chance it got and many Christian virtues that were absent from TWI as well.

Double bubble troll and trouble

He was a sociopath in a skinny tie. Plain and simple.

JohnIam and JeanIam (I am sure you will be chiming in soon), I purposely do not comment to 99% of your posts. Since I have come here and posted my opinion, mind you, I stay off of thread usually that are positive about the Way, until this one, which seemed opened for debate, I still had JohnIam following me around from thread to thread as a VP Pooper Scooper having to post to undo anything I said. I am tired of it. JohnIAm and JeanIam, I am tired of being followed by a VP pooper scooper, and I will NOT have a pair of pooper scoopers following me. Leave me and my opinions alone. You don't like what you read from me? Don't read me and certainly don't respond to me and certainly never contact me privately. Do I make myself clear? As for my post being deception, good I am glad you think so. Maybe now you will leave me alone. But I certainly will never ever buy or accept that I have to be loving and forgiving to those that ABUSED ME or OTHERS in the name of God because of all the cliches of free will, suffering, welfare and warfare. Been there and done that and I allowed so much crap into my life, especially at the hands of TWI that I will never ever tolerate it again. If the best any God can do is to use the likes of VP and the pedophiles in the Church, both Catholic and Protestant to teach his word or lead his people, that is one God I want nothing of. Personally I do believe in God. And I do think that he is abhorred by what others claim in his name to perpetuate their own spiritual illnesses. Again, I will never ever be silenced by the shame that some promote in the way of cliches, hell, forgiveness, getting devil possessed, losing rewards, children dying and all that hoopla. It's nothing but fear motivation, the piped piper call to get everyone into line and obeying. Only I won't do that, ever again. Ever watch Kingdom of God. Amazing how the call of "God wills it" or "Allah wills it" moves everyone into a frenzied formation to follow the leader. Not me. If it's rotten, it's rotten. I don't buy the lame walked or the blind saw because it never happened, not in TWI and now don't back peddal saying you meant figuratively. For once I would like someone to share a loving God, who cares about his reputation and what people do in his name and to his people and not try to smooth it over with "God wills it" or "It's the Word" or "You're dividing the Household". I would like to see a God who takes better care of his children than a fallible mother would her own. You have that God, who doesn't need sexual predators to move his word? Let me know. If VP was the real thing, then we of all men are most miserable. There's a bible quote for you.

Then that would mean one of two things if VP was the real thing. 1. There is no God. Just the devil. 2. God sucks.

Worried yes, because my dog ate one of the brands contiminated, just that what we bought was not the specific flavor contaminated. I find it strange all the outbreaks of poisoning from our spinach to our lettuce. It could be that it has always happened and people got sick and died and it was never reported or never given news space? If that is not true, then there is certainly a high incidence of poisoning against humans and animals in our country.

This morning my router from the cable company refused to work and I had no internet service. I unplugged, rebooted, re plugged, yelled and reset everything and then had to call the cable company who had me do the whole thing all over again just to finally believe me that the router is no good. I can expect service on Thursday. Well we have a storm coming up and my dog who is paranoid of thunder shoved her 90lb body under my computer desk and sat on all the wires. It started to work again????????? It is not working well at all, taking forever to download but I just wanted to let you know in case it doesn't hold up, that is why I am not around until cable brings me a new router.

To echo the patience post, which is great advice, give yourselves time to adjust to having someone to go home to and having to call if you are going to be late. Doesn't sound like much but at first it may seem like your style is being cramped. Even watching TV is something that needs work and patience as most females are willing to stay on one channel, even through the commercials, many males feel the need to flip through the stations using the remote to change channels in rapid fire succession. Don't do what I did once when I was angry. I went shopping with the remote in my purse accidentally on purpose. ;) Many men take their clothes off and leave them; the best many can do is put the clothes on top of the hamper and my darling hubby leaves his wet towels on our bed. You could always retaliate by getting a cat and leaving it's water bowl out in the middle of the kitchen floor cause for some reason men will step in it quicker with their stocking feet than a woman will. ;) My hubby came home one day and it seems the men their at work discussed this very scenario. ;) ;) Yell loudly, regardless of the time if you fall into the toilet because the lid was left up. I don't squabble about which side the toilet paper goes on because I am the only one in my house that actually PUTS the toilet paper on the roll. At least I get it done my way. All seriousness aside, I would ask that the chores be done equally and the best advice I ever followed was that whoever is cooking, IS RIGHT. Whomever is vacumming or doing the dishes, IS RIGHT. We all have our own way to do things, and all it is is our own way and one way isn't necessarily better than the other person's way. Nothing will make a person shut down quicker and quit giving is if they have someone always watching over them telling them how they are doing it wrong.

One sexually abused person would have been too much. It didn't need to be rampant for it to become any more evil than it already was. But you see, it was rampant. It was a taught doctrine, belief and lifestyle to those of the clergy, to those deemed worthy to fit into the club. I know because I was handed the line that VP shared with these men that it was okay for them to have women to service their needs when they were out on the road, even if they were married. I was courted by same said clergy and I let it be known that I wasn't playing. Since I did not resembled Frankenstein in the remotest way some twenty to twenty five years ago, it was not the first time I was hit on. You can believe that or not. I don't really care because what anyone believes OR refuses to believe because it does not in any way shape or form change REALITY of what happened to countless of other females in TWI. People can call others who attest to this being a problem all sorts of names and accuse them of being bitter and negative and all that crap. It does not change reality. Reality should be for a God based organization that one person being sexually abused should have had everyone up in arms and to make sure it was nipped in the bud so it didn't happen again. But then we come from a ministry that said things or promoted works that said the Holocaust never happened or at least it was not three million Jews murdered. Excuse me???????? Gassing ONE human being or sticking ONE human being in their ovens was TOO TOO MUCH. Hard hearted and seared consciences were prevalent in TWI and that is what Rascal is concerned about. What happened to me, to us that we need to know about so that we can undo the damage done to us. There is a first step. This is a first indicator. Does our neurotic need to be always right, to have a corner stone on truth that no one else has, to be superior in our doctrine far outweigh our human compassion and mercy for other individuals???????????? Baby, I'd rather be dead wrong in doctrine and be dead right in being a good person, whose heart goes out to people in distress and be the helping hand that brings them back to light. Everything else is just bogus egotistical crap that does no one any good and does not make a difference anywhere except in our our little fellowship circle where we can pat everyone on the back and smile knowingly believing we are different than all the suckers out their in the world. Yeah, those are some of the attitudes I got rid of when leaving TWI and examing what they taught me to be. What did TWI say about the poor? What was their attitude? What was their attitude about getting pregnant when it got it the way of ministry plans? What was TWI's attitude about non believing ( not believing in TWI doctrine) family and friends. What was TWI's attitude about charities? hmmmmmmmmm? Show me how your ministry cares about family and friends and I will show you where you stand spiritually nevertheless how you treat others outside of your own group. It matters how good TWI was or wasn't because it has affected us in our way of viewing the rest of the world and how we treat people in our everyday lives and what we do and how we share. That is what this thread is about; undoing the wrong doctrine, the non caring non compassion side of TWI so that we change and we don't pass it onto our children. Jesus Christ died for 'VP? So what. He also died for Hitler, Ted Bundy, and Jefferey Dahmer and every revoluntionary leader that commited genocide. What does that prove??? Religion cannot be used as a defense or an argument against a psychiatric pathology and those that prey on females (or males) and those that would use their position to exploit others fit into the category of a sexual predator. If anyone wants to find out about how that works, how it grows, how it needs to be treated and how it should be dealt with, needs to start reading up on the subject. It doesn't happen in a vacuum; too many people played dumb, went into denial and looked the other way for it to continue to grow and flourish as it did. You could find the answer in the Bible, but since that answer so contradicts what TWI says (once save always saved verses those that do those things will not inherit the kingdom of God, don't do IT ever) the truth was squelched when it was presented over twenty years ago as being devil doctrine. Was TWI good? Goodness does not call truth doctrine of devils. I won't tell you the name of the very popular Rev. who thought and taught it was okay to use female believers to service the men of god. You all would .... a brick and you wouldn't believe me. Doesn't matter because I know what happened, and I know what I was told, and I know how often it happened. Freaking little horn dogs in a three piece suit waving their bibles around. I don't need to be believed because I believe me. And quite frankly, that is all that matters. I won't respond to this thread again. The truth is out there. The bible can be used to justify any sin. And it surely gets used to justify what happened in TWI. I am done with that. Believe what you want, your choice.

There was once a woman from Ohi-o Who was rumored to be quite the bi-o She was harsh, ugly and mean TWI people worship her like a queen The rest of us find it to be obscene

Under those conditions which you described, WordWolf, (which I know is true, I have heard it from so many, lack of sleep and food) it sounds more like the t.v. show "Survivor" rather than a godly biblical program. Thank goodness I backed out of going in.

I had been reading this thread and have jumped in many times only to hit the back button and erased my response. I am going to post now to say what I have to say. I am saying for those who may not know how and why many of us have come to the conclusions we have. Or at least how I came to my conclusions. Pawtucket or moderators, if I say anything or better yet, phrase anything wrong that can get Greasespot into trouble, please moderate my post to make it read correctly. So there I was back in the 1980's. I had heard from my WOW sister whose fiance was 12th Corps that there was a big shake up in leadership. This is specifically in the year of 1985 (after VP died) to 1986. But we can get no details as it was supposed to be big, a lot of fighting. The ROA at 1986 sucked big time. People were upset, mostly Corps (I stayed in the ladies Corps tent that ROA) and were surly and some couldn't look you in the eye when I spoke about how great God's Word and God's MInistry was. I must have looked like a babbling idiot. I had no idea then that the Passing of the Patriarch had been read to the clergy by CG. I had no idea until I listened to tapes a couple of years later by JL and other ex-twi leadership that supposedly CG called the clergy in from all over, read them this paper, that he had packed a gun in his suit when he went in to the meeting and accused everyone of being possessed or that all of the clergy counseled with and asked advice from were possessed and passed some pronouncement that like 95% of the ministry was possessed. Not my words. Oh yes, also, any one who read JS paper was possessed because it was akin to accepting the trinity. JS paper was about adultery and why it was not biblical for a man nowadays to have more than one wife, the body the church represented by the marriage. So no wonder people were a little down in the mouth. I went back home, married and had a child while all the while rumours were spreading about adulteries, sex scandals and so forth. The best way to get blackballed was to speak to any one who left the ministry at this time. Leaders who quit, who were escorted off TWI grounds for daring to confront LCM about his legacy learned from VP in using girls for sexual reasons, NOT MY WORDS, were making the rounds and telling people what had really been going on in TWI and how the leadership in TWI were NOT changing or even showing remorse for it. Again, not my words but the words of people like JL and RD. So if any think that the 'stories' that are circulating now, that are published on Empire.net are nothing but the words of females making up stories or trying to get even with a dead guy, you are totally misled. The ONLY way these females, YOUR sisters in Christ received any creedence to their words and what happened to them IS because leadership came forward and stated that it was true. Ex twi leadership EVEN spoke about the possibility of them being drugged and being used sexually against their will. Until then, some had come forward or gone to their friends with what happened to them and they were regarded as crazy and possessed. So it's not like anyone didn't come forward when VP was alive. They did and they were blackballed from the ministry by leadership so that no one would talk to them and believe them. So the fog years, which LCM refers to them were not foggy. It was pretty clear in black and white what had been going on and that nothing was going to change. Those years were more like the coverup years. LCM and CG fought for control of the ministry and finally in 1989 an edict went out from LCM basically stating that you either stand with me or CG. Many many many clergy were fired when they stated they stood with God. So they you have the history in a nut shell. Believe what you want and why you want to. Know though that this alleged behavior was confronted by other TWI leadership who left in disgust, as per their words or were fired because they spoke up against it. We all need to decide what we can tolerate in life, what we can live with and what we will learn and WHOM we chose to learn it from.

The Way was and is evil from its inception. That is what I believe. I don't believe in concidences and there is just no way to put together a well oil machine and glean mind control concepts from thin air and oooops accidentially put them into place. It was total control from the start when the Way East and West was disolved and everything went to HQ. Were there great people? Of course there was, that WAS the selling point. However great the people were, it noway justifies or makes it better what TWI was. Many people lost their lives, many lost their sanity. Was it God's word taught? You decide. I decided no. I decided it was like the seed pickers up on Mars Hill, gleaning doctrines from here to there and putting them all together under one label. It was an oooooooooh woooooooooooow sensationalistic presentation of the Bible that was appealing to the masses of young adults who were coming out of the Flower Power age, down with the Man and down with the Establishment Age. Here they could believe in God and not do it the way their parents did. A rebel with a Bible.

I know you and you know me and my hubby. You and him used to be roofing buddies together ;) ;) Know who I am now?? (don't say it outloud!! I will have him call you ) You are one of the exceptions in my life that truly made a difference for the good. You and your house treated people like they should be treated, with respect, love, kindness and compassion. My husband and I owe you a great deal when we came to counsel with you about me being pregnant and we weren't married yet...my hubby and I that is. The Corps leadership from the area I lived in were on my back, without me asking for their advice, but butted in telling me to abort the child. These were the same Corps people/branch leaders who didn't want me to get married in the first place. (By the way for the readers out there, I was thirty years old at the time) My hubby who was my fiance then and I moved back by you all and you and your wife counseled us and used good reasoning, mature reasoning and advised us to keep the baby. Which we did. This baby is now excelling in college, Dean's List and is going to be a doctor. So yes, you and your wife were living waters to us and gave us some of that and it has continued to give life ...literally as oppossed to those who counciled us with words of death. So I do thank you from the bottom of my heart. Words can't express it enough. In context of this thread, I will say this: For myself, I have sought out to apologize to those I felt I sold out either through ignorance or fear while in TWI or that I hurt even without meaning to while in TWI. It's a balance, where I did good, I will take the credit. Where I did not so good, I will take the blame and learn from it,learn about myself why I allowed it to happen or why it did happen, learn what I need to learn so that it doesn't happen again. Some Way Corps were lifelines, in a very real sense. Others I would like to kick in the shins. Then again, there are some I feel that way about in normal life away from TWI. Those in the Way Corps who did me the most damage were the ordained clergy. I had to rewrite that sentence because I apologized before saying that. *slaps myself* The ordained clergy also did the least for me in TWI and caused the greatest mental/emotional harm. Some may become very upset with me over that and have testimony upon testimony about how Rev. SoSo helped them and no matter how true that can be, it is NOT true for me. How does having mini MOGS looming over us fit into the equation of supporting and enabling TWI to continue as it did? By mini Mogs I mean those whom we were taught had gift ministries, had been singled out for that, who walked by all nine all the time and all that jazz? We can't stop at the Way Corps. TWI needed everyone to cooperate in order to do its damage. Us in the field who worked and sent money for ABS and sponorship, who had the houses to hold meetings all the way up to the head cheese.

Just out of curiousity, is there a study published that states that inmates, especially those without hope of parole are rarely afflicted with depression? I would be interested in ready a scientific study on that and if it would differ from state to state, from maxium secure prisons/federal prisons and state prisons. I am sure there are a lot of opinions out there stemming from subjective observations. Not all people show depression the same way and may present symptoms differently, especially while imprisoned. I am just curious. Maybe I will just google it as well.

I quite agree with you. It is very real to the person dealing with the issue in their head. My answer to that is and always has been, "Where the heck else would it be, in my big toe?"

I feel like I shared too much personal information, but I am going to let it stand. My heart goes out to anyone who does suffer and experience depression. Winston Churchill did, Abraham Lincoln did, many people do. It does not lessen the worth or spirituality of anyone who has it. I guess that is what I wanted to say along with I don't believe it's devil possession. I just wish people would shut the hell up about things they don't know. I mean people who claim to be leaders of God's people. They wouldn't stand for a psychiatristic teaching the bible, why are bible people pretending to know all about the mental health field? I thought it then and think it now that how TWI (and other groups) thinking they can specialize in anything is very dangerous. I wouldn't go to my mechanic to have a tooth removed and I wouldn't go to my local grocer for a pap smear. The bible folks need to stay in their own turf.

I don't believe mental illness is devil possession. Not at all. I struggled with this question along with a host of others when I left TWI. I came to the conclusion that not only is being poor NOT a sin, being sick is NOT a sin or lack of faith, that mental illness is not demonic activity either. I know that there are lots of <b>stories</b> out there about people being 'delivered.' I think that there is more to the story than meets the eye. I think that not one of us came to TWI thinking we were possessed; those of us who suffered from panic or anxiety or depression. We were told we were possessed or oppressed and we came to believe it. Then someone came to us to heal us and cast it out, quote unquote. We may have had experience a day or two or even months of relative ease then it was back. Did the spirit come back? No, it did not because it was never there. The power of suggestion wore off and the real issues causing the depression or panic or anxiety rose to the surface AGAIN because the real issues that caused our symptoms were still there and were never removed. So either it was chemical inbalance or unresolved issues buried deep in the back of our minds that were triggered by some event outside of it that made it come back. It will continue to come back until we got the true help we needed. I suffered from depression (without even knowing it but would refuse to admit it in TWI cause that meant I was possessed) for years along with panic and anxiety. I would have times when the sky was blue and clear, figuratively speaking and others times when I was so so traumatized by these disorders I could barely sleep. The more upset I became, the harder I worked for the believers in the area I was in. I was such a worker bee that I was coveted by many Way Homes who wanted me to move in. TWI never got me delivered. The PFAL class never got me delivered. The Advanced Class never got me delivered. All my Bible reading, praying in my understanding and speaking in tongues never got me delivered. Leaving TWI was my first step in deliverance cause now I had options to get help. Psychotherapy I went. My symptoms were all repressed anger and fear and reliving the abuse I had suffered as a child. The memories and feelings never went away and in short, I had just stuffed it into the most inner recesses of my being. TWI was like manure mixed with cement that kept it covered because of blah blah and positive and not looking at the past and feelings were bad and blah blah blah. TWI kept me UNWHOLE because the doctrines of TWI does not serve the WHOLE person but rather the orgainzition itself. So I had to go on a search and over a couple of years I had to recount memories and relive the emotions tied to them. I couldn't do that as child, it was too overwhelming. As an adult, I could. I cried and raged and worked very very hard to become whole again. Or maybe I was becoming truly whole for the first time. There were NO devils making me feel this way. NO strange entities working with in me to make me suffer. It was all the abuse from my childhood rising up to the surface. I faced it head on, sometimes on my knees crying, afraid I would go crazy but you know what? I didn't go crazy, I become whole and I was healed. I haven't suffered depression in over ten years and no panic either. What I needed to be whole TWI could never give as it sneered at the psychiatric community and I shudder over the harm that attitude has caused in many who did not survive and for those who struggled with that kind of stigma over their heads. Damn them for the ill will they sent out to those who only wanted to know and serve and love God. My niece suffered at the hands of an Assembly of God pastor who determined she was possessed and tried to exorcise her in front of the congregation. She was a teenager for cripes sake and teenage problems. He caused more problems and harm then he did good and she was NOT a willing partner so she felt NO obligation to go along and believe that she was possessed and play the part. Needless to say nothing was cast out because nothing was there to cast out and her unwillingness to go along with it made him look like a fool and he banned her from the church. The episodes of abuse that take place in the name of Jesus Christ leave me flabberghasted. The only place I would think devil spirits live is in the minds of these men who try to mock those 'weaker' than them and exploit people to make themselves look like some thing they are not...ie men of God.

**Off topic but a true story and posted for humor** Yes I remember those little groups. Not just Corps did it but at classes whoever was favored could go off and smoke cigs and whisper to each other, non corps people. So being on refreshments and tired of being the peon who had to sit in the class while the favored few mingled, I wedged myself one session between the refrigerator and wall praying that the branch leader wouldn't find me while he cleared out the kitchen except for the few select and ordered them to the classroom. He didn't find me and I got to do my thing, hehe as I explained, I can't go in there now and disrupt everyone!! ;)

*smiles* Cool. I guess my definition of being affiliated differs. When money is exchanged for his teachings through any group, I would call it an affiliation. It also tells me that he has put his stamp of approval on a certain group if he does that, and not just him, but anyone who would let his classes be sold through a group or be listed as one of their people teaching it. It also matters to me if it is an ex-way group or TWI splinter group. I speak from experience. But I am sure that differs from person to person, depending on any affiliation or experience that they may have or not have. I know it's semantics but sometimes linguistic gymnastics is sometimes all a group has, specifically TWI. So I am particular about it. I still would not pay 120.00 to find out about God's healing power. Been there done that. It seems like the never ending illusive search of what should be right in my own backyard. If I had stuck to that a long time ago, and listened to those who tried to tell me so in 1975, I would have saved myself years of trouble and heart ache in searching and paying for class after class after seminar after seminar. ************************************************************************* Not only do I not believe that Indian man being healed in the train station, I will now confess to something I have never said before out loud but have thought about since I had heard it. That damn story about the women being possessed in India never made any freaking sense to me. Someone put a curse on people who already had a possessed woman, mother or mother in law who killed every child the daughter or daughter in law had --sounds like they didn't need a curse but then I wonder if VP and entourage wasn't ignoring the culture of India society in where if a girl was born first, she was killed or put out exposed to the elements to die and decided to call that the spirit of infantcide. Whether we agree with that facet of their culture (of course we don't but it puts a whole different spin on the story instead of the mother being a possessed evil monster looking to kill every baby that was born) and it was a common practice and not something out of the ordinary (not that it makes it right but it certainly is quite different than the way we heard it) and I asked then, "why the hell would they let this woman deliver the babies time and time again? Because she wasn't a mudering frothing at the mouth murderer, but rather following the culture's tradition. Sheesh! Who knew that then? Then the two women got possessed and someone had a picture of a pig in their mind and caste out a swine spirit and no one is here but us chickens and now let's read from a diary and quote a statement in Hindi (?) of what one of the spirits said or was it what they said to caste it out? Wasn't there also a picture of the sacred heart of Jesus in the room and supposedly one of the women were possessed with that spirit, which is odd cause I thought it was against the law to be Christian in India. At least certainly not popular to be Christian there with a Hindi and Moslem population. This is why I buy nothing reported from other countries. You never know. There is so much we don't know about the culture, laws and traditions, nevertheless not being there. Well especially since when we were younger and google didn't exist ;)

Is then the page to CFF from the link I posted (which I found at Google when I put Sangat's name in it) misleading when they claim him to be one of their teachers in their Power of God Series? I think the particular series they claim him as a teacher has to do with healing.

Bump, I can't pm you unless you changed that but in just in case you didn't, I will post here. The Highway didn't attack you at all. You totally misunderstood and jumped to a conclusion that didn't exist. You need to sit back and take a breath before you post an attack, claiming Corps vs you. If you have problems with the language and are not sure what someone is saying in their post, fix your private messaging and message me and I will read it for you and tell you what I think. Seriously. You may have to wait before you can respond or heck you can even ask, I am not sure how to take that, can you explain it to me? I knew as soon as I read it that The Highway was THANKING you for broadening our perspective in what is going on around us. Back to the thread, I am so sorry for your pain Dot and all the others who posted. I too became more fearful when I became invovled in TWI and that was the very thing I sought deliverance FROM when I took PFAL. Fearful of dying, fearful of my family dying, fearful of getting possessed. Everything was possessed in TWI if it freaking moved. Oh am I sad? I must be possessed. Heck, TWI as in my local leadership tried to hinder my engagement and marriage to my husband for no other reason than they could do that. Heck, they enjoyed putting fear in me, "because so and so never went into the corps, they backed out of their commitment they will never be the same," or "you will go insane because you didn't go into the corps." How about good old VP in the Advanced Class telling us that 80% or better of the people in mental institutions are Christians and what a testimony for Christianity and I just remember his face right in the video camera (filmed at the Advanced Class 1979) saying that the devil would love nothing better than to do that to us, put us in a mental institution. Of course he mouthed some Christian sounding words of getting mad at the devil and not our brother or sister if that happened to them. Yes, we've seen by their example how they treated those that got ill, died or were killed. TWI built their foundations on sensationalism and fear, they indoctrinated us with phobias. It is what cults do. It is not always blantant or overt but many times covert. A suggestion from THE MAN OF GOD ie...the devil would love nothing better than to put you in a mental institution. They started with being possessed and all that and built more and more upon it. It made us to feel that if we were not totally safe within TWI from the devil, how could we ever be safe in the outside world of powerless people who the devil used as puppets and pawns at the devil's will???????? And IF we turned our backs on the HouseHOld of God (ie the ONLY ones in the world with God's power and grace, everyone is just slotted to die) then all we love can and may die as well. We might just as well self destruct. Oh and the ever famous threat of being greasespots by midnight. It was a very very effective way to not only keep us in the organization but to stay in line and do what we were told to do even if it broke our hearts and the hearts of those who loved us. TWI built mental prisons with their doctrines to keep us prisoners to them. IT is an effective tool of cults and controlling toxic churches and bible groups. FEAR. We responded to what we were indoctrinated with. When we were younger it worked better. I know I did many things out of fear, fear of this, fear of dying, fear of being possessed, fear of being out of fellowship. Gods, VP made such a big deal about being out of fellowship in the Advanced Class and being a target for the devil when we were it put even more fear in me. It was not a glory class. It just cemented the crap already being taught up to that point. I have regretted living like that. I now resent it and will spit at any group that comes along with the phobia crap of devils and dying and all that darkness. It is darkness. TWI had more darkness to them then light, both in doctrine and in practice especially what we did not know was going on behind closed doors. I have never been so free since I left TWI. Every day and every year brings me out into the light more and more. There was a lot of pain during those years, realizing what I had did and believed and what I believed and how I was controlled. But it is a process that is worth it a thousand times over.

ooooooooh just wait for April fool's day! I wonder what will happen then? :)

It's pretty hard to check out what happened in another country. First TWI claimed miracles and wonders in India then other off shoot ministries were claiming miracles and great believing from people in other countries and how meek and humble people were to 'receive the word' and blah blah and all we have recounting these stories is the leadership of such said groups. I had checked out once via google and other articles about VP's trip to India. I had read he caused a near riot because he wasn't just preaching, and supposedly was still associated with the church he pastored in then, because he was talking publicly about politics and how it was affecting India or would affect India or something like that. I am sure if anyone wanted to badly enough, they could dig up enough info on it. All I knew was the accounts I read differed greatly from VP telling it. As for the guy getting healed who didn't believe in Jesus, that was just to demonstrate that the law of believing works regardless if you're a believer or not, which is a boomerang teaching cause why bother sitting through classes and stringing chairs if you just have to believe it will happen? Oh that is right, you won't get your noise maker at the 'bema.' I sincerely doubt it happened, the guy getting healed in India. The stories I read, like I said were very much in conflict with the spin VP had. I really don't care either. I used to be bothered by and felt guilty by Pastors or Evangelists who would go to other countries and rave about great the people are there and how they can believe and how miracles are performed THERE because of it. We all suck in the USA. I don't fall for that crap anymore. Make a video take and have objective people there filming it and the miracles then let's take a looksie at it. Until then, for me, it is all heresay and it only serves to make the heads of the ministry, any ministry look great.