Frankee

Gee whiz! It sounds like a lot of you all had some real fun in the Way corp! I kinda wish I had got to go in by the way it sonds.

Mr Hammeroni, you do need PFAL. It's the the keys to the rightly divide Word of God which hasn't been known since the First Century, except for that brief time from 1967 till about 1987. How could you not need the Word of God? I just don't understand that? -->

Well, all I can say is that I sure hope that TWI comes back to the original PFAL class! That's what caused the Word to move so dynamically and get so many people delivered from their fears!

When it's runnin down yer pants, and ya do a little dance...diarrheah! If ya feel something sticky, an it smells kinda icky...diarrheah! Go ahead, make one up, it's fun!! :)--> (I got it from the movie Parenthood w/Steve Martin)

Well, I liked the PFAL class. I liked it that Dr. Wierwille put all of these different pieces of Biblical information together from these different sources. I was glad to learn that I was saved by grace and not by works. I was glad to have been taught that the Word of God is the Will of God. I was glad to learn that I was born again of incorruptible seed, and that by the works of the Law no flesh is justified, and that there is a major difference between the age of the Law and the age of Grace. "To whom it is written" is a fantastic principle for understanding the Bible. I was glad to learn of four crucified, and the scripture build up principle to see this relatively unknown fact within the gospels. I was glad to learn that "the hour cometh and now is that the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24), that is speaking in tongues. I was happy to learn about the absense of puncuation in the scriptures, which sheds incredible light on verses such as "verily I say unto you today that shalt be with me in Paradise", and "we ceased (quit) saying the will of the Lord be done", as Paul bull headedly charged off to Jerusalem against the will of God, and then we see the historical downfall of the First Century Church. I have actually heard television preachers teach that "God will put you in bad situations as he did to Paul by telling him to go to Jerusalem" in order to make excuses for why so and so got sick, in a car wreck or died of cancer or whatever. And on and on. People may say, and maybe some of you people will say; "yeah, but you could have read that for yourself, or, you could have gone and read Bullinger or BG Leonard for yourself, but ya know what? I was just a kid and I'd never heard of those guys and was not likely to! I was just a kid who prayed and whom shortly after that met a WOW who got me into the class. And it didn't hurt me, it helped me in a time of serious trouble. So I am glad that VP Wierwille was ther with that class. Now, people have said to me not to be a "wussie" here at the GS (thank you Rascal), and so I won't be. I liked the class a lot, but now I suppose some will not like me saying that. Whatever. Others here claim to have been sexually molested. I never saw anything like it. But, from what I have read, these things must have happened, and VPW will have to stand before God some day for having done this and leading his leaders into the same practices and hurting more people. I am sorry for you all who were hurt in this way and I will pray for you so you won't feel bad about it so much anymore. It must be very hard for you I do not doubt. But I think that he (VPW) started out wanting to help people and fell into great temptation, lost sight of his goal, and people got hurt in the process. But I do not think that the class itself was put together as "bait" as some people seem to think, in order to "get money and sex". Irregardless of the sin that happened in The Way Ministry, I think that there are still valuable truths in PFAL that we can and should utilize when going to God and the Bible for spiritual guidance. But of coarse I don't expect anyone to agree with me on this, for as we say here in America, "It's a free country". I just wanted you to know of my opinion. :)-->

Hi Coolchef! It'sm e Frankee. Thanks for saying hi, and hi to you too! So, are you a chef? Looks as if you must be. You probly know how to make pizza too. Hah! And I am curious, why did you get flown in from the far reaches to HQ for the opening of the VPWWOWA? Was it because of your extreme talent in the art of cullinary delights? Or did you donate huge funds to the building of said VPWWOWA? Well, welcome Coolchef, but as I have been warned, and now have seen reason for said warning, watch your head, these folks get really rough around here. Alot of them, or certain of them think that there was absolutely nothing good about The Way Ministry, even during the earlier days. The eighties were pretty bad though for sure. My best times were mid seventies, but then things got worse from there.

Yeah, I don't see any place where it is ok to whack your wife Johniam. I do see in the Bible where a wife could drive a man crazy, and he would be tempted to belt her, but I do not think that it fits with Romans 12 where it says "...be not overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good". Or, as in proverbs where it says; "A soft answer turneth away wrath". And of course, there is the example that Jesus set forth where he was despised and rejected of men, he was laughed to scorn, where they beat him, mocked him, falsely accused him, publicly humiliated him, and how he, in whose mouth NO GUILE was found, during his passion, did not retaliate in any way shape or form. And even as he was led as a sheep to the slaughter, "so openeth he not his mouth." He just bided his time and waited through the agonies for His Heavenly Father to rescue him, which in fact God did after three days and three nights in the grave, for he was raised unto eternal glory, bringing you and I with him. And what a guy huh?! That's our Big Brother, the Prince of Peace. But that verse about a wife that can drive a man crazy? Well, I am not exactly sure where it is, but it says; "A contentious wife is as a continual dropping". I rember Vince Finnegan pointing out that this was tantamount to "Chinese water torture". Hah! No kiddin...But still, we have Jesus' example to follow when it comes to self control.

Ya know, I would have to say that there is some merit to this statement. My WOW family coordinator was a gal. And the WOW branch leader was a Sixth Corps woman. One branch leader was a Revrend woman, and I remember having to explain to other Christians that I met that it was perfectly acceptable to God for a woman to be a leader and clergy and that we did it that way in The Way because God doesn't care about all of that. Also, I remember that there was a fair amount of female WOW rovers that were women. I remember that, as a matter of fact, there was a certain type of "single tough gal" type gals that enjoyed roving the USA and teaching the Word to the WOWs. Lynn Perrigo for one, Stacy Bowen for another, Patti Bass, and another gal named Olson. Oh, and then there was Rev Barbara Lally and Rev Pat Lynn, very prominent females. So, I think there is merit to what Oldiesman said in the above quote. p.s. Also: Rev. Linda MacDuffy, (Rev?) Marcia Faulk, Mrs. Howard Allen (department head coordinator), Dorothy Owens (Housekeeping at HQ I think), Rev. Rosalie (Head of University of Life and one of the big coordinators of PFAL '77), Rev. Ellen Somebody of the 4th Corps (married Tim Warga), Rev Susan Bouldin, Rev Kathy Ralston, Christy Sargeant (a tough one there, look out!), (Rev?) Donna Martindale, Rev Claudettee Royal, Elena Whiteside, and I know there were others.

Yes, back to the point. Linda Z. You drew up a scenario here. I will quote you: To me, in this scenario, you are correct in saying that you as the mother would be guilty for letting this fictitious "adult male rapist child" watch over your teen aged daughters slumber party, and he then therefore went and raped and murdered them all while you were out at Bloomingdales or whatever. But, this scenario is not valid, because Ms Andrea Yates was not a "known child murderer". She was not known to have had problems with murdering children. She had lived all of her life as a mother without murdering any of them. Who could have guessed it? She was known to have severe mental problems, but not to the extent that completely took EVERYONE INVOLVED by surprise and horror. That extent being, calmly and methodically murdering her kids. If the father can be found in a court of law to have broken a LAW that is on the books, then he should be tried and convicted for the same. If not, then I believe that the guilt, shame and anguish, sadness, and the empty hole that he will have for the rest of his life will suffice. And Rascal? You called me a wuss! I can't believe that! Why, let's put on the gloves now, c'mon, get 'em up! See if you can clock me! :)-->

Umm Oldiesman? Could I have a private word with you in the pt? I think I may be able to help, if the rest of you don't mind. I just hate to see all of this ugliness going on here. Yes, I put on my asbestos suit , but it doesn't help too much.

Oh come on Uncle Harry, let's not call names. It's not very, well, nice. We can discuss without anger? No?

Yes Vickles, and I am glad that I didn't make you mad by mentioning your name here. And speaking of your name, if you are a "Vicky", but go by "Vickles", then why is it? Do you like pickles? :)--> Oh, and I see that you like fishing! Well, So Do I! Ever caught a Walleye?

Wow is right! Thank God they all made it! Is it safe to assume, or should I say presume, that this first tidal wave was of lesser size? The article mentioned that it was a twenty foot high wall of water, and not to belittle it's mammoth height, but I do know that there are thirty footers that crash on the beach at Wiamaeah(sp?)Bay on the North Shore of Oahu. Were other of these waves more devastating then the one in this pic? Or did this one wreak as much havoc as the others we've seen and read about, and these people received an out an out miracle?

Belle- No kiddin! Seems kinda raucous fer sher! Glad to know you all get along anyway. It seems as if this thread has sort of degenerated into a male against female thing, which is unforchunate. It started into that because, I think, because of the opinion that the husband of Ms Yates should share in the responsibility of the death of the children. A couple of the posters, Vickles and someone else I think, expressed this, and I think that their opinion was not that "because he was a MAN", that he should share in the blame, but because he was the closest person to Andrea Yates in the situation, i.e., her husband, that he should share in the blame because he could have done something to stop it. I think that this opinion was concluded not because he is a MAN, but because he was close to the situation, as a husband would be. I think that the same conclusion could have been drawn by those with this opinion if Ms Yates had been living with her sister, let's say, or her mother. I don't think that these posters were making it a "this was a MAN's fault" type of a conclusion, but that it was this individual man's part in the tragedy. But it really does seem as if MJ412 was saying that our "male dominated society" has something to do with why this happened, and I do believe that this is sexist and unfair. I will quote her again just to be fair: Now come on. This is uncalled for. Of course this is offensive to me as a man or any other man. If this is what has set Johniam off, then I cannot blame him. Like I said before, this man, Mr. Yates, will be living in hell for the rest of his life while he thinks about losing his ENTIRE FAMILY when he could have done something about it had he the foreknowledge. And unless a court of law can convict him of actually breaking a LAW that resulted in the death of his children, I do not think it is fair to judge him. She killed them, NOT him. He will live with that for the rest of his life. Like I asked before: "What punishment can we give him that will be worse than the hell that he undoubtedly lives in now?"

I only had one living grandparent when I was a kid. He was my Mom's dad. His wife had died before I was born, and my dads' parents died in the thirtys. And so, we called my grandfather "Grand Daddy!" Since I always called my dad "Pop", my kids got real witty and figured that if he was "Pop" to me, then he must be "Pop Pop" to them. Double it you know. And so, "Pop Pop" it was. They call my Mom "Gramma", although for some reason my 83 year old Mom thinks they call her "Gram", and always signs her name that way.

Oh boy. I think it is going to get really rough in here. I think I'll just watch for awhile.

I find it amazing that you know so much about this man whom none of us have ever met. You have judged him guilty and blame him and you don't know him. In order to convict him of a crime he should be tried in court and then and only then can we come up with a verdict. She was a crazy woman and she went far beyond anything anyone ever expected. Just like 9/11. Who would have thought it?

In defense of Johniam, I do not think it is to fair to be judging him as a woman hater. I do see something that was written here by someone that seems to blame some of this on a "sick male culture" to which maybe Johniam was responding? One person here said; Oh, there is that quote: I can see how a man might be offended by this statement, can't you all? I don't think it is a "blame the male, or blame the female culture issue". It is just a turrible incident where a woman went mad and lost her marbles and killed her kids and had anyone an inkling of an idea about what was about to happen they would have tried to move heaven and earth to stop it.

Hmm. Coulda-woulda shoulda- How many times have all of us said that one? I do not think that anybody could have guessed that the woman might go and murder her own children. Why is it that so many people want to point fingers and to lay blame? Sure if a Mom knows that her husband has "child molesting tendencies" but doesn't protect her children from that husband then she should share that blame. But did Andrea Yates have "child murdering problems"? She had mental problems I think for sure! That is known! But it wasn't known that she had "child murdering" problems, or I would bet that that dad would have taken more care! Who wouldn't have? I will bet that he misses his babies in a HUGE way! And one person here said "shame on that dad" for not protecting them or something close to that. Well, I will bet that that dad has lots and lots of shame and guilt and anguish and searing pain and nightmares and that they will last him for the rest of his entire life! He will be haunted by this all of his ENTIRE LIFE and that will be terrible medicine to swallow everyday. What kind of punishment should be given him that will be worse than his present pain? I think it is very easy to judge others in situations that we are not in. I think we should listen to Jesus when he said; "Judge not lest ye be judged".

There is one evil spirit in the Bible called a deceiving spirit. I think that Kaiser Soze said it very well. He said that "the greatest trick that the devil ever pulled was convincing people that he doesn't exist". I think that there is a devil. Look at all of the incredible evil in the world.

I am going to say something here. I may get in trouble for it because I know that this is not a "Hi I'm new here thread", but rather a discussion where opinions are opposite and or different. I think that it is hard to blame the husband for this. In hindight, which is so many times "perfect vision", I am sure that even the husband is upset with himself for not seeing that she might have gone off her rocker and do something turrible. But I am sure that he probly did not expect her to kill their children! I would bet that there are many of us here who have loved people alot whose problems were really bad, but we hoped and prayed and wanted to believe that they would change, or get better. But they didn't, in the end. I had a WOW brother who did not like to work and he always owed us money and ate all our food. But many times while we were at work instead of him looking for work, he would just sneak back home and go to sleep after he raided the frigerator and ate up a bunch of the food. Plus he would go door to door all of the time but instead of asking people to come to fellowship he would ask them for cigarettes! Door to door cigarettes bumming! But he never really did pay his part of the rent and he slept all of the time. How he stayed fat amazed us! The WOWS in the other family were getting tired of his cigarette bumming and the continual drag on our family and said that he should just "go". But me and the coordinator girl kept wanting to see him succeed and we kept trying to help him, but, he never changed at all. But we loved him and never gave up on him! One day when we were all at work, me and the two girls, he stole all of our money that we had-$600 dollars! And in 1976 that was a lot of money! And looking back we all said; "Man we knew he was bad! We should have known!" So. Does that mean that me and the girls were guilty of his stealing the money? Were we guilty of him being unsuccessfull? I mean afterwards there is no doubt that we wished we had given him a "pat about a foot lower", or kicking him out, but because we loved him, we became partially guilty of his crime? I don't seem to see it thataway. I don't think that this husband of this derranged murderess should have to pay any price for this because I think that he will now grieve for his children for the rest of his entire life! He will probably be tempted to take that self inflicted lethal injection his own self I think that Excathedra has a good point that this woman might be better served to take the lethal injection her ownself.

Well, let us just put that beef jerky on top of that PIZZA that has pineapple, Canadian Bacon, and SPAM on it. And then, what should we call it? Jerked beef seems to have come from the American Indians, so, does anyone have an innovative name for this pizza? C'mon, someone witty-er than I can surely come up with a new name for it, no? Frankee

Whoa! Hey! I just had to duck! I almost got nailed in the face with a flying Hawaiian Delight Pizza, Spam and all! And yeah, thanks for the exciting welcome White Dove! Oh no!~ Here it comes again! This time it looks like pumpkin puke! Yikes!! Hey White Dove, is that you chuckin' that stuff?! Whoa! Nice to meetcha but-hey! I'm gonna go and get some anchovies in a second and stuff em down yer pants!

Aww gee Andrea, thanks for the kind welcome! And yes this has become a funny discussion for sure! And ya know, speaking of barbecue, I once went to the "XIT Rodeo" in Dalhart Texas, and participated in the worlds largest pit barbecue. They had dug a big old deep pit, got tons of mesquite branches burning, and then put these football sized chunks of beef covered in wet burlap in there and then covered it all up with dirt and let it slow cook for a couple of days. And when they uncovered it, they had to use a couple of backhoes to get to it, and then, once they dug them out, the meat was oh so fine! And best of all, it was free! There were lines and lines of people at these long tables where you got a plate full of beef, Texas barbecue pinto beans and a couple of big old tortillas to go with it. Then there was the beer kegs too. It was a grand party and an excellent rodeo too! Now I am sure that there is lots of excellent BBQ in this world, but that was some of the best I ever had. Better than Spam! :D-->

Rats! I had a good picture of some Spam there! Oh well. I am ot that good with the computer thing.