wrdsandwrks

Will be praying too! Not sure have the details but I gather you're having some health issues and I will surely be praying for you.

How depressing! I need to listen to something lively to get that somber tune out of my head.

I never heard VP himself say anything about Jews but Stanley Reahard posted on waydale that in 1981 she and Bo were at a night owl at HQ and VP said the US fought on the wrong side in WW2. She wanted to leave then as a result. Also, at my AC in 1984 LCM said the holocaust was a hoax and people left.

I heard VP say that he felt that the US was on the wrong side in WWII. It was at a "Research Fellowship" at Rome City in the early 80s. He also denied that the Holocaust occurred and promoted such books at "The Myth of the 6 Million" which denies the Holocaust.

All I can say is that God blesses those who bless Israel.

Have you seen the book, "Jerusalem, Where Empires Die", by Lester Summerall? He shows how every empire from the Assyrians to the British have been irrestistably drawn to move against Jerusalem. "From that point in time, those empires have been judged by God and doomed to destruction." He asks the question, "Will America die at Jerusalem?"

Another more recent book is very enlightening on the history of Jerusalem and America's relationship to it: It's called "The Fight for Jerusalem" by Dore Gold.

God did sovereignly restore the nation of Israel, just as He promised to do. He will sovereignly fulfill every promise made to Israel.

Of all the egregious sins committed by TWI leadership, I'd have to put anti-semitism right up there.

As you know, I believe that regardless of how whacked VPW may have gotten, there was a time when his ministry was helping people and getting people saved.

Some people believe that because he plagiarized and scandalized women that his entire ministry was a sham and never had God in it.

In the OT, we know that Isaiah prophesied of the coming of Cryus the Persian about 200 years before he actually arrived.

Isaiah 44:28-45:5

28 who says of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please; he will say of Jerusalem, "Let it be rebuilt," and of the temple, "Let its foundations be laid."'

45:1 "This is what the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:

2 I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron.

3 I will give you the treasures of darkness, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name.

4 For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me.

5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

I was studying this just the other day and was quite taken. Here is a pagan king, and God is empowering him to conquer nations. Why? Because God needed his interests with Israel protected. God was working behind the scenes in a far away nation with people and circumstances never mentioned in scripture to insure this prophecy came to pass and help save God's people, 200 years before Cyrus' arrival.

Well God certainly wants everyone to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4). So if saving people is so important, isn't there the chance God was working in VPW to save others despite his weaknesses? Cyrus didn't even acknowledge God and yet God worked to insure this guy succeeded at subduing nations, and many people being slaughtered as a result of Cyrus' conquests.

VPW at least acknowledged God to some degree. He may have taken the big choke, but he was still born again and God could still work in him to save, which under his ministry, many were saved. Whether it was 100,000 or only 5,000, that's a lot of people who have been rescued from eternal death. Even if it was only 1,000 people who were saved, that's a powerful moving of the spirit. If God can work in Cyrus, an unbeliever to accomplish His will, then He can work in anybody he chooses.

Lone Wolf

Lone Wolf, I agree with you.

In fact, I was thinking about Cyrus in regard to VPW just the other day as well. It's been 20 years since I left TWI. I've thought more about it in the past week or two since joining GS cafe than I have in quite a while. (I was in for 13 years, Corps, married to clergy etc.) I feel like the passage of time and God's gracious faithfulness to heal has put a perspective on my experiences in TWI. If God can use a pagan king (BTW I believe that if you study Persian history Cyrus was just as bloodthirsty and ruthless as the rest of the Persian rulers) or Balaam's donkey, He can use anyone and anything for His purposes. I'm not trying to defend VPW here or say whether or not he was a true believer, I'll let God judge him on that score. I can and do pray for mercy.

Anyway, I was genuinely born-again during PFAL. I confessed Romans 10:9, 10 and spoke in tongues during the class. I was raised Catholic, but by the time I took the class at age 16 in 1974, I was a professing atheist. I was not born again until I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Saviour in PFAL. I consider most of the rest of what was taught in that class highly suspect but I have to give it credit. My life changed and no I longer spent my time partying but genuinely started seeking God. I had a new sense of adventure. Many of the experiences I had on the WOW field and in res WC were just plain great adventures and I think I'm a better person for them. I never would have had those experiences if not for TWI. All in all I have to say that my life is better for having been in. Again, I'm not trying to minimize the bad experiences many have had and I did have some bad ones too. But I can't imagine that my life would have been better without them.

Again, I'm not trying to defend the sin and deception that ran deep in TWI. When I became aware of the fact of VP's and Martindale's sexual and control habits I left. It was traumatic to find out something that you had thought was so good was not. But God is bigger than any man or organization. I do believe that God touched my life and called me serve Him. When I went into the Way Corps I made a solemn vow to God to serve Him with my life, I gave it to Him completely and I was devastated when I thought that I had made a worthless vow. Then by God's grace He showed me that He wasn't done with me and He allowed me to continue to serve Him. I'm sure there are many of my fellow TWI brothers and sisters with a similar perspective.

I also met my dear husband of 25 years in the Way Corps and many lifelong friends. I feel a connection to all who were in TWI whether I knew them or not and it's great to reconnect with some old friends and acquaintances here and make some new ones.

So thanks Lone Wolf for a great observation!

Happy Birthday Fellowshipper!

Is it still your birthday down under?

Hope you have a great day!

Hi RainbowsGirl. I don't know where Kay is now, but she was my WOW sister in Richmond, VA in 1975-76. That was a nice testimony about her. She was a really sweet, beautiful girl. If you find her, tell her hi for me. (Karie)

Though an army may encamp against me,

My heart shall not fear;

Though war may rise against me,

In this I will be confident.

One thing I have desired of the Lord

All the days of my life,

To behold the beauty of the Lord,

And to inquire in His temple

For in the time of trouble

He shall hide me in His pavilion;

In the secret place of His tabernacle

He shall hide me;

He shall set me high upon a rock.

Psalm 27:3,4,5

These are words which gave me comfort while grieving for the unspeakable evil which killed so many of the best and brightest, young and old at Virginia Tech. May God grant comfort and peace to those more immediately connected to the tragedy and to a grieving nation and protection from future harm.

I still believe in rainbows,

Since I see them everyday'

Can you you, tell me, dear sweet sister...

Where's the Spanish class today?

I took the class in spanish,

and in english, just as well

because my resume was weak...

they sent staight to hell.

Because I was un-learned,

In a canyon filled with lies.

I took the the pill so bitter.

so that many could survive.

Some day I 'll stand there with you,

with a bucket filled with tears...

And all will be there laughing

Questioning the years...

Love only-

egilkent

Wow, what a great poem! Did you write it? What a great talent! You should write!

I'm sure that God will restore the years that were lost. Let Him take care of you! It's been 20 years since I left TWI and God has been so good and faithful to restore everything was lost in those 13 years and much more.

No Matter what name tag you earned or wore the one that is the most valuable is the one we recieve for our God; Written in the Book of life!

Amen to that!

I bet you still have your Corps nametag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, I'm pretty sure I tossed it but then it's hard to say what's lurking in that garage of ours...

Well,I still have mine, why you ask yourself. I earned it the old fashion way, I did the program and all I have is this momento of a name tag to prove it.

I am feeling a bit shallow right about now.

Fellowshipper, you are welcome to wear your Corps nametag to our house anytime, we'd just be glad to see you!

I noticed with great pride that I shot up from being a Newbie in March to "Advanced Member". I was wondering if I get a cool nametag to wear to meetings to show that I so much more "Advanced" than the rest of the newbies??? I could strut around and think I'm better than anyone else.

JK, LOL!

Thanks all you really cool GS mods for providing such a great resource.

To All:

Bonnie had her test, so we should know more this week. Bonnie asked me to relay her love and gratitude for everyone's prayers. She is still a bit bruised and sore from the test, so she hasn't been up to going online just yet.

She asked if I knew who some of the individuals were (that is real names). If you would like to re-connect with her, just send me a message at PaulMStanley@Hotmail.com. Thanks to P for her message already. We remember you fondly as well!

Thanks also to LZ, our friend, and roomate of my old roommates. Where have 20 years gone?

I promise to keep names confidential if you wish.

Paul & Bonnie

Paul and Bonnie, I remember Bonnie from the 9th Corps. Give her my love and greetings. She was always cheerful and encouraging and I'm praying for her to be encouraged by the tender mercies of our God to strengthen and heal her completely. Give her my love, KM Praying hard!

He was married to Diane then. I think they split up shortly after POP but I haven't kept in touch.

I agree. John was a good friend "back in the days" when I was involved with "reaearch" with TWI. I'm sorry to read about the troubles at CES. I remember being in Israel on a Bible Land Tour in the 80s and walking around the Old City trying to bargain with shopkeepers for souvenirs with John and his then wife. It was fun hanging out with them

From what I've read and heard, some folks left TWI because someone wasn't "doing the Word". They left because the organization and/or its leaders weren't living up to "the standard". No change in belief system took place, other than believing that TWI was "where the Word was taught".

Other folks left because they saw that TWI doctrine didn't line up with what they understood the bible to say.

It seems that there are two parts to Oakspear's query, 1. What are the circumstances of your leaving TWI and 2. Did you re-evaluate your beliefs after leaving? So I'm splitting my reply into two parts at least.

First the circumstances of leaving:

It started when I went on the Bible Lands Tour, I believe it was 1985 or 86. VPW had recently died and we had been reassigned from CA to Wisconsin. I was miserable in Wisconsin. I had to leave the work I was doing at UCLA on my Ph.D. and I was struggling with depression over that. On the tour in Israel, an old friend confided in me something that she told me she had never told anyone else, not even her husband, that she had had sex with VP on the motorcoach and that there were many others that had similar experiences. I would never have believed her were it not for the obvious distress that she was in over this and her need for someone to confide in. I did my best to help her with it but it overloaded my brain. Here I was, miserable in Wisconsin and this was what the “man of God” was all about.

I “lockboxed” the information but it weighed heavily on my brain for months. Then came Corps Week and the Passing of the Patriarch. At that point, I was done, and left Wisconsin for California to finish my degree. I didn’t leave my husband,but we were separated while he stayed behind to tend to the “ministry” work in Wisconsin. Finally in January of 1987 we officially resigned from our position and moved back to CA. We left Wisconsin behind on New Year’s Day of 1987, with everything we owned in the world packed into a small U-haul truck.

Thats what he's saying.

Oh you haven't meet Mike our PFAL fill in the blank.

I would say nut but I know thats not nice.

I guess I haven't. He has to be joking, sure made me chuckle.

It just so happens that there was a 2000 year gap for us.

***

He's nailing our whole scale reverting back to

tradition of searching for truth in the writings of men like the KJV,

other versions, or the critical Greek texts.

the REAL Bible as our only rule for faith and practice, not some version.

THAT is the greatest literal secret in the world,

that the written forms of PFAL comprise God's book, the Bible, the written

Word of God.

Is this a JOKE? You can't really be saying that PFAL is the real Bible????????

Thanks EyesOpen for a great story, too bad it's not fiction, but I really appreciate your telling it! I hope those guys that were injured got lots of money from a settlement, but it sure doesn't replace lost body parts. I always was glad that I was sent LEAD in warm weather, how awful was that to not take better care of people. What incredible courage K. had, reminds me of the guy who got his arm caught in a rock while hiking alone and amputated his own arm to save his life. (Of course his story differs from this one because he was acting alone and should have known better than to hike alone. You guys were entrusting your lives to people who should have know better how to take care of people in that environment.)

Great story telling. Can't wait for the next episode.

More, More, We want More!

Can't wait for the "rest of the story". Nice writing!

Let's see, I was 16 and in 11th grade when I got in TWI in 1974. I gave up a full academic scholarship to college to go WOW when I graduated from high school. After going WOW I came back and went to college for 2 years before dropping out of college to go into the Corps. Got married in the WC weddings and then went back to school while hubby worked PT for TWI. Got a BA and MA then after leaving TWI (in 1987) got a Ph.D. (94) So glad that I didn't give up on that part of my life.

I saw it a while ago. It was really creepy. I remember being in rez. when that all happened. I really don't think TWI with all its problems was ever on that level of evil, all those hundreds of people dead.

I was especially moved to pray for Jim Jones' son. He seems to be a sensible guy with a huge load of guilt to deal with and a great need for a loving Saviour to heal and comfort him. I'd love to hear that he got saved.

Pretty dull around here! What's everyone doing, building hooches in their backyard for the Easter bunny? Fellowshipper, I like your post about LEAD, it was a lot of fun.

NotinKansas, I looked back at your original questions to start the thread off. I don't know about Don and Bill's list so I probably wasn't on it, but I do remember Gene Slavit's list. He had a list of all the 9th Corps women and he was inviting each one on a "date" to a meal with him. I think I ate lunch with him one day, so he could check me off the list. Anyone else remember eating lunch with Gene?

my favorite is "great is thy faithfulness"

I love that one too!

Great is Thy faithfulness, O God my Father;

There is no shadow of turning with Thee;

Thou changest not, Thy compassions, they fail not;

As Thou hast been, Thou forever will be.

Refrain

Great is Thy faithfulness!

Great is Thy faithfulness!

Morning by morning new mercies I see.

All I have needed Thy hand hath provided;

Great is Thy faithfulness, Lord, unto me!

Summer and winter and springtime and harvest,

Sun, moon and stars in their courses above

Join with all nature in manifold witness

To Thy great faithfulness, mercy and love.

Refrain

Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth

Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide;

Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow,

Blessings all mine, with ten thousand beside!

Happy Easter everyone!

Wednesday ... Friday ... who cares ... there was some neat Way Pro song? about God has rolled away the stone ... I think I had it on tape ... might have been a non official twi approved group ... those were the best.

Happy Easter

Wasn't there a Ted Ferrell song about who has rolled away the stone? I can't remember much about it. I also remember some great "blue book" songs about the resurrection:

He arose! He Arose! Hallelujah Christ Arose!

He arose a victor from the dark domain

and He lives forever with His saints to reign.

(I can't remember any more of the words, but here's another one:)

He Lives

I serve a risen saviour, He's in the world today

I know that He is risen whatever men may say

I see His hand of mercy, I hear His voice of cheer,

and just the time I need Him, He's always near.

He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today.

Sometimes Chuck and I have a contest to see who can remember the most twig songs. Drives our kids nuts. Actually some of them are great hymns. My fav is "In the Garden" I come to the garden alone while the dew is still on the roses, and the voice I hear falling on my ear, the son of God discloses, and He walks with me and He talks with me, and He tells my I am His own, and the joy we share, while we tarry there, none other has ever known.

That song still ministers the presence of God to me, even though I couldn't stand to think of all those old "way" songs for years. Any one else have some favorites?