ChattyKathy

I also blew off going to church this morning and don't feel guilty about it at all.

You seriously rock!

Suda, I've always enjoyed that aspect also, the soaps and lotions in the bathroom. And the last time we were there they had this caterpillar moving around on the floor and it was a hoot watching it sneak up on some unsuspecting customer and touch the back of their leg. But they do have excellent smoked sausage.

Mark Knopfler :wub:

ASpot, Speaking of a great heart....you certainly have one. I have a church I'm comfortable with but I went to several here before finding this one. That is one thing I suspect we all have in common here and that is finding a place we are at ease with and walking away if not. One of a few common experiences I believe this group hold. I hope Bramble doesn't mind my speaking of her but she and I have become pretty close since our posting to each other here and I've learned from her that I should be able to get my point across without being rude, as well, that we can see some things very differently and still enjoy each others company. ((Bramble)) I think that our extreme pasts have enabled us to not be as intimidated as some would wish us to (some=outside of here) and also to recognize what is not worth our getting upset about. We know what that small stuff is a little better now. These freedoms to see into each others hearts and love one another regardless of agreeing or not wasn't familiar to me while with that group as easily. There were risks in loving others that didn't toe the line. And all under the guise of treating them the way we were for their own good. Like their sacred probation process. Freedom is sweet.

I was just talking to my son on the phone (he lives in California) and he complimented me more than he realized when he said he'd always hurt inside watching me have to curb myself because it was frowned on when I spoke up and stood my ground. He said it was baffling how that ministry wanted yes men/women yet we were suppose to be able to defeat the world with our personal walks. What a world of mixed messages. Ironically that all came up when I was telling him about this book that Abi lent me "Reading Lolita in Tehran" which he had heard of because he had seen "Azar Nafisi" on a Bill Mayer show and he was impressed with her greatly. But that conversation led us to how twi imposed oppression on women as well. I know I just side tracked there but this whole subject keeps circling their contradictions, all based on what served them best at the moment and yet we were somehow suppose to understand what was the godly and acceptable way to live our lives. :wacko: It feels good to be free don't it!

agree

I'm never going to retire. :P But I love Cracker Barrel's breakfast. And as George Jones said...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5LduVGA67o

This has been said here before I know but what good is knowledge if only kept captive inside your head. (oft times I don't make a question a question for you grammar police :P ) I have removed twi from my head so much that it feels odd to now consider them as I am. But they were walking contradictions at best. One day it was "study to show yourself approved" (sadly that was to them not God though) and then the next "many will never read the bible but they will read your life" (well, duh, you think so). All the while using things like "you are accountable for the bible you know" and then "hearers and not doers of the bible". I swear it would have been easier had we had one of those calenders like we had in-rez where we had to mark off every morning that we had flossed. A calender that said today head knowledge is of the utmost and then the next day say the doing of it is paramount.

That believing thing was a two sided sword they used however they saw fit. When I approached leadership about Craig and what his buddies were apparently not doing I was given some excuse how God covers even if the believing is not there. :wacko: Alrighty then.....

Both of you hit on eyeopeners for certain. And that saying they had which came from the bible (but still was abused) about being thankful for what you have which would assure you would get more now looks more like a bribe towards God. Geez!

The more you think this stuff through the more it's a wonder any of us got out with any of our brains intact. What a bunch of numbnuts.

Your wife is beautiful! And you ain't so bad looking yourself dude. :) It looks like an awesome start to a lifetime of happiness for both of you. Thank you for sharing them with us Raf.

Those are beautiful pictures. It looks like a wonderful time was had. Thank you so much Abi.

Uh huh!

Tonto found a good man in you T-Bone. :)

Your son has the best thing going for him in you. How wonderful that you can share his life now, and it be even better because he can see things more clearly now. And how fortunate no great harm came upon him in the process of learning. But your heart is now also able to be relieved of guilt you held that you probably didn't even fully recognize. You made the choice you did for your son. He sees that and now you and he have each other. How wonderful.

It's because knowledge can't compete with the depth of a mother's love and pain. And your words describe it well enough my heart is aching for you both and tears are falling down my face. Forgiving ourselves is so much harder than forgiving another. His releasing what to him must feel like shame is the best medicine you could have given him. I can't help but believe that huge step for you both will unveil a world of losses you both endured and bond you in a way nothing will ever sever. (((((you both)))))

There will always be ulterior motives in some folks that say they chose to serve God and His people. Money and fame seems to be a couple. But not all can fit into that mold so some of those Pharisees had to have loved God and wanted to serve for the right reasons at the start. But legalism became their barometer and if someone walked outside of that in the freedom God intended they nailed them. What is sickening is the the good didn't overcome the bad, but it appears the opposite took place.

ASpot and T-Bone, Your acknowledgment and importance of a personal walk/relationship with God is what I think He wanted in the first place didn't he. He wanted to communicate with us and be a part of our lives. But he gave us the choice of choosing him or not because a forced relationship would benefit neither of us. Not unlike a human relationship one with the other. It has to be both sided or it won't survive long and certainly it won't have the good stuff in it. But we can't know God accept through his son and the Word given to us so some knowledge is necessary to even begin that relationship. Cool thoughts you two. I just went on my own way with them.

ASpot, Great thread you have going here. :) And a kick butt excellent one at that T-Bone. That transforming influence, oh yeah, that is sharp. Thank you for that kind closing. I think when folks talk about the old days of twi when there was love and better times oft times it was what you just said. They were so thrilled to be stripped of personal bondage and come to the place of knowing they were worthy of God's love that other things weren't always apparent. But then the push to become big heads grew and grew and before we knew it we were deciding who we could even witness to, and gawd knows we HAD to witness. But we had requirements the person who was worthy of our time had to fit into. One being someone with the mental capacity to take a class and move beyond it, not just a person who would take the foundational class and become a twig goer, they had to have more on the ball than that. The list is bigger than that one thing but the idea was they had to be able to get big heads like the rest of us or they weren't worth our efforts. Off topic but maybe not I remember when I first spoke in tongues and interpreted and it felt so cool but then I was told I had to make sure the length was in proportion both for tongues and interpretation and it got me so concerned about that I lost the joy of the whole thing. I overcame that but still it was head stuff to worry about that. Geez, certainly God could handle that if we were willing to serve in that capacity. (ASpot and T-Bone, you both continued to hit on great points but I would just be repeating you to post them ;) )

Forum should have been site as this forum is not where I read some of the things I do. And Bramble obviously you have a problem with me and have for awhile so in light of that I will endeavor to be more clear the first time when posting where you might be reading.

Nice print T-Bone!

I guess I mistook your comment on not have had my experiences then. And you can take what I say however you wish to. But blaming God for man being a @ ss and then making statements that you don't trust him and he is not a part of your life is said here in this forum daily. And it hurts my soul that loves God regardless of what men have done to me. If that bothers you then I guess we're even.