penworks

You may not have been altered much while immersed in TWI, but I know I was.

I remember sneaking off to St. Mary's library while I was working at TWI headquarters in 1986 and reading "The Mind Benders" by Jack N. Sparks. It was first published in 1977.

The book blew my mind. :-) I saw myself on some of the pages.

In Part III of the book, there's a chapter called "An Introduction to The Way, International." On page 214, there's a section called Behavior Modification. It reads in part: "Slowly the behavior of the devotee of The Way changes. He begins to act almost as he were becoming another personality. He isn't. It's just that another personality is dominating him."

Well, those of us here know who that personality was at that time: VPW himself.

If you'd like to read part of my story, here's a recent blog post.

http://charleneedge....identity-theft/

I welcome your comments about this post, either at the end of the post or here at GSC.

What do you think happened to your identity?

Cheers,

Penworks

This topic is one I've thought about often since leaving TWI in 1987, and what I think is not very flattering to VPW or to organized religion.

I was in the second Corps which graduated in 1973, and I married a second Corps man. The 10 second Corps men were ordained in 1974 after one year of experience on the field. Later, when the third Corps (men and some women) were going to be ordained, VPW wrote a letter to the second Corps women, the married and the unmarried, and asked us whether we, too, felt we wanted to accept the ordination status.

Some women did, I did not. I told VPW that my husband's ordination was sufficient...I was his helpmeet. Ah yes, the dutiful wife...

I no longer subscribe to Christianity, so that colors my views considerably, I know. I view the ordination phenomenon from a distance now, so like the outsider that I am, I wonder why the procedure is necessary at all. I think it plays into the hierarchical structure of organized spirituality that lauds one person above another. I believe in equal access. I think everyone is responsible for their own "spiritual" lives, and having ordained ministers around weakens that ability, makes people think they NEED a clergyman to be their spiritual overseer, to be their spiritual leader, to tell them what is right. Really?

As far as I understand ordinations, the Apostle Paul began the tradition, and since I consider him, well, very sincere but a man who formed his own religion believing he was doing it the way his "God" wanted him to, I think ordinations feed into a hierarchical structure and create results that are not useful to people, like the belief that an ordained person is more valuable to "God," or more "spiritual" etc.

Example. Last year I attended a dinner party with about ten other people. The host couple invited their neighbor (and wife), who was also their church minister. We were all sitting around the living room eating appetizers etc. and talking like peers when suddenly, right before we got up to eat, the hostess said the neighbor was going to pray. Suddenly a hierarchical atmosphere appeared out of nowhere like a stray cloud!

What I am NOT saying:

I am not saying that ordained people do not genuinely love others, help them (like sitting up all night with someone suicidal), etc. but un-ordained people do those things, too. And some ordained people should not do them. Many times they should send people to mental health counselors.

I am not saying we should not seek counsel from people wiser than ourselves on a given subject in life. But how do we designate that wisdom?

I am not disrespecting people who were/are ordained in TWI. I know many of them and they are good people. I'm just expressing my opinion -- that the ritual of ordination conducted by VPW in TWI was a show performed to shore-up VPW's ego, and possibly the ego of some of his clergy. I said SOME not ALL.

I think VPW wanted to compete with Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, etc, and denominations in general to make TWI look like a real ministry with real ministers. Since I now view VPW as a fraud, I have difficulty valuing his ordinations. Were they simply trappings to make his cult appear respectable?

Let me repeat, my opinions are not meant to disparage the people who are/were ordained. They each have their own conscience to deal with on this. I just question the value of the whole process, whether it is inside or outside of TWI.

As for what we were told ordination was - it was explained something like: it was making publically known what was already spiritually "operating" in the person, what that person's God-given ministries were, described something like "long-suits" or abilities they had more than other people did. Something like that...

This is one of my articles about TWI and its influence as a cult. I trust it will be useful to some readers here.

The Camouflage of Cults

I admire Dana's courage in writing her story and posting it here. She's a truth seeker and teller. We need more of them here.

Both of those accounts matched Dot Matrix' discussions with Jim.

http://www.greasespo...5337#entry45337

"Weirwille sought things to validate his position. He did NOT research the word and change his opinion to IT. I became pretty good friends with Jim D**p. He told me that he, Jim, had a ministry where they were sexually loose and an anything goes kinda group out in California. Weirwille flew out there, telling folks it was to talk with Jim about the Bible and witness or something to him. Jim told me Weirwille flew out there to LEARN from Jimmy about the free sex thinking. Weirwille said he always believed sex should be free and allowed with as many as you feel you want to be with -- but could NEVER prove it from the Bible. He was there to see if Jimmy could prove it was okay via scripture.

Dopp never really could and was more of a hippie minister than a sexual pervert looking for Biblical validation.

Weirwille had these concepts, notions, urges, illnesses and tried to find a way to SELL them to us. He was not about to CHANGE his thinking according to scripture. He was not a researcher. He was similar to a lot of cult leaders. He had an idea and looked for people who would buy into it. Like Charlie Manson."

Thanks, WordWolf. This is important info!

I found this excellent article about cults. Cult Attraction is Not a Problem of Logic

Alexandra Stein, PhD wrote this excellent article: Cult attraction is not a problem of logic I think it's VERY good. She has an entire website devoted to her investigation into the cult phenomena.

Criticism can be healthy... if the foundation of that which one criticizes is legitimate to begin with.

Regarding cults, the concept of criticism is anathema because exclusion of critical thinking is a critical success factor for cults from the start.

If wierwille had not suppressed criticism, he wouldn't have been able to build the abusive subculture that was and is The Way International.

If VPW had been open to healthy criticism there would not have been a TWI.

Remember, he began TWI because, as I understand it, he could not get along well with others (understatement) in his denomination. I think that's because he was what sociologists call a charismatic authoritarian. They aren't usually open to much discussion. :-)

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do. I recently read a book of short stories written by E. L. Doctorow. One of the stories is about a cult and cult leader.

The story title is Walter John Harmon. It was published in the New Yorker magazine in May 2003.

I'm confident former wayfers will find a few parallels between the story and their experience in twi.

Thanks! Wonderful take on cultism.

Wordwolf,

Did Jim Doop publish these quotes you attribute to him? Are they in Karl Kahler's book?

Thanks,

Penworks

Hi everyone. Getting back to the topic of this thread, Cult Prevention, I'd like to add a couple of things.

I think we can all agree that cult prevention is no easy task, especially in the U.S. where we have freedom of religion and certain constitutional protections, and apparent ease in creating a cult disguised as a non-profit organization BUT I think we can try. We must. Too much damage in the name of God is done by cults, right?

One way is warning others about destructive cults so they don't get mixed up in them, like having a place like this. Yay!

As I understand it, GSC was created for former TWI followers to share their stories and help each other understand The Way phenomenon and recover more mental and emotional health. At least that was my impression. So, I just want to say cheers to the people behind the scenes, i.e. moderators, etc. who keep the café open.

Maybe because I was recruited to TWI as a teenager in college I have a hunch that young people need more education about religion so they recognized a sales pitch for a cult when they hear it.

I don't mean education IN a religion but ABOUT religion and its power. So, I'd like to recommend a book by Stephen Prothero titled Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know--And Doesn't. I wish I'd read that when I was 18 years old!

Prothero is a Christian and a scholar who writes in a way the general public can enjoy. The cover of the book states, "Provocative and timely...combines a lively history of the rise and fall of American religious literacy with a set of proposed remedies." - The Washington Post.

I am a firm believer in reading good educational material like Prothero's to help me, as well as poetry, fiction, newspapers, whatever...without censorship.

Full disclosure -- I am no longer a Christian, but an agnostic with a Buddhist sort of spirituality. I say that because I like people to know I am not a defender of any kind of "doctrine," but a defender of free inquiry and free speech, which is why I like to visit (and lurk at) this site. While in TWI, those freedoms were not respected, as least in my experience. I paid a high price.

So, does anyone else have a book they can recommend or other actions we can take to address cult prevention besides keeping GSC open and sharing our experiences whenever appropriate?

Cheers,

Penworks

Hi Broken Arrow,

If you click the link in penworks' tag line (her real name), it will take you to her website where you can subscribe for updates on her book and blog.

Thanks, Rocky. Yes, I'm at www.charleneedge.com. My memoir is finished (hello John Linder, etc.) and you can sign in to receive updates which I'll post once or twice a month.

Cheers,

Charlene L. Edge

former Second Way Corps member

I doubt it will be about TWI. But about cults in general, yeah. The directors fancy it'll be this: "a provocative take on a controversial, dangerous and thrilling world."

Which tells me that whatever it is will be sensationalised, and will completely miss the slow erosion of "self" and personal boundaries, and their replacement by group norms.

It's that word "thrilling" that sets my teeth. Scary...neurotic...isolationist...all of these. Even exciting, at times. But thrilling? :confused:/>/>

The early followers of The Way were known for their generosity and openhandedness, and care for one another. That's not very "cultic" or dramatic.

You could make good drama out of looking at the cult "experience." But drama is all it'll be.

Ditto.

I found it very interesting that The Way International was talked about in the article that Belle posted. So the person that is behind the program has done some research. That's what makes me think that maybe someone has made their story known, or someone has some first hand knowledge of being in TWI and has based this show on those experiences. Just a thought......be interesting to see what this is about.

"That's what makes me think that maybe someone has made their story known".

Hi everyone,

You can be sure of this -- I'm not involved in this show. I have my own story to get published.

On Bart Ehrman's facebook page today Ehrman addresses a critic:

Didn't we get a lot of this in The Way?

(Ehrman isn't saying to do this, he is mocking someone who does do it

Ehrman is one of my heroes. Fearless. Speaks the truth without patronizing.

I personally don't like equating cults with religious beliefs. There are plenty of cults, past and present, that have nothing to do with religious beliefs. Think about how any hardcore biker "club" operates to interpret my meaning.

I think this is an important point. Most books on cults that I've read bring this to the forefront: groups that place high demands on followers, attempting to control them, fall into the destructive cult description.

Checks list. Applies to Paul. Results: 75 percent match. Applies to Moses. Results: 100 percent match.

Yes indeed. Theirs was a tribal mentality, which always has to include a Them vs. Us and a good deal of control.

Garth,

Do me a favor. Rewrite Penworks' post. And Rafs'.

Tell me their meanings.

(emphasis on the "s")

If you have questions about my post, feel free to ask me, not ask anyone to "rewrite" what I said. They don't have that job. I'd be happy to try and help.

This may be useful: It's my checklist for a cult. I figure that if a group's characteristics fit this list, then it's a cult.

CULT aspects:

Leader's Claim of "special knowledge": Wierwille claimed: "He [God] said He would teach me The Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others."

Even though he's dead, let's face it, TWI in New Knoxville and offshoots cling to and promote his fundamentalist teachings, whether they've slightly "revised" them or not.

Control &Indoctrination

Control of information, behavior, emotions, thoughts, and money. Harmful effects on followers:

• Shut off their critical thinking capacity.
• Fear modernity: evolution, medicine, technology.
• Fear the historical-critical approach to the Bible and condemn it.
• Invest time, money, energy in cult's goals, not their own.
• Suffer health problems, even death, from thinking "I'm healed."
• Slap band aid Bible answers on a democratic society's complex problems.
• Seize political control to promote their beliefs.
• Become paranoid that unbelievers are persecuting them.
• Often disrespect other religions and avenues of spirituality.
• Develop habits of manipulating people and scriptures.
• Break relationships that hinder commitment to the group.
• Unwittingly or deliberately spread propaganda.
• Lose educational, financial, and relationship opportunities.
• Retards their own personal growth

I could see removing tax exempt status from churches IF those statuses are allowed to remain for particular good things the churches do.

For example, a church that runs a food bank should be taxed, but the food bank itself should not.

But I'm MORE inclined to leave it alone.

***

Incidentally, I am sensitive to how easy it would be to become a one-note poster, and I'm trying not to do that. But on this thread with this topic, I think the following observation has a place:

As long as we're in a country that is religiously free, cults cannot be prevented from forming. Not by law, anyway.

As long as people believe in a god, they are susceptible to abuse from anyone believed to speak for that god.

This is not to say atheists are not susceptible to abuse. It just wouldn't come from a religious cult, per se.

I agree that in the USA we cannot prevent them from forming, but as many of us are trying to do, we can try to prevent people from joining cults. Does anyone else here know about ICSA? They try and educate. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS_hc5LO1HtMvoa8kRcLcig

Strange place for such a holiday greeting, but ok, you too.

Personally, I hope John Lynn seeks and finds the best medical care he can get.

Me, too. He was the N.C. leader when I got involved at ECU. I think he means well, but he was misled like so many of us. John, if you're reading here, know we're sending good thoughts your way. It's been a rocky road for us all...

While I'm far from rich right now, I've seen more "abundance" since I left TWI in 2001

Me, too. Especially in peace of mind and gratitude for all the positive things in day-to-day living. I think many of us can say that TWI sucked the life out of us...and we're thankful we're out.

John Juedes reveals VPW's plagiarism at https://www.youtube....h?v=_z3K7xnoXww

Thanks, John!

Speaking of Lamsa's influence...perhaps some of you know that he inspired VP to produce an "Aramaic N.T." In 1979 a working copy was printed in paperback. Then a hardcopy was printed in 1983. It was not for sale to the general public or even in The Way Bookstore as far as I know, but copies were around in-house.

Just to clarify: this publication is NOT the interlinear that was published in 1988. This is a N.T. that was printed in-house in the Estrangelo script with NO English translation in it.

I used to have a paperback copy but I don't any longer.

If anyone here has a copy of either the paperback or the hardcover, would you please send me a message or an email?

Thanks!

I would like to know what college courses VPW took at Lakeland and Princeton, and what were his grades. Proably B and C average.

Just want to clarify that he attended Princeton Theological Seminary

Maybe, just maybe......twi would have faired much better WITHOUT the corps program.

Mmm...raises an interesting scenario. What if there had been no Corps? VPW's influence would have been weaker, yes, that's a good thing, IMO. Maybe his little cult would have been a bigger flop and not hurt so many people. On the other hand, hurting even one person was one person too many.

Perhaps some of us want to think over this question: would the world would be a better place if twi had not existed at all? Or perhaps it does no good to raise hypothetical questions like that. The fact is we're stuck with what happened. We're tasked with sorting out the good from the bad and the ugly.

Cheers!

Something else to consider is the seventh session of PFAL, the one that deals with Eve being tricked by the serpent. According to Wierwille, Eve's first mistake was allowing herself to consider what the serpent was presenting. The lesson in this, Wierwille implied, was that we must never allow ourselves to give thoughtful consideration to viewpoints that might contradict "The Word" (read: Way Theology).....STAND!! Never allow yourself to be talked out of PFAL-centric doctrine.

It's no wonder Wayfers are so intellectually stubborn.

Yes, and it's no wonder it took some of us so long to break the "don't question VP" barrier and leave TWI. One thing VP was right about--fear is sand in the machinery of life. He sure knew how to muck up the "machinery" with his fear tactics. I've found that life is not really like a machine, though. It's a mystery.