rascal

hi rascal. so glad you posted. sometimes i feel she (me) is invisible :)

((((((excathedra)))))) never invisible, , however I feel that I way as well. Never underestimate the impact your own personal testimoney has had on others. For many of us it was the first inkling we had that wierwille was not as pure as the wind driven snow.

I finally was able to purchase this book.

I know I am about four years late, but.....WOW!

All I can say is thank you kristen for putting into words what some of us have struggled for decades to understand and express. I admire your strength.

I am in one of those "any two believers" marriage. Twenty five years of shared goals and seven kiiddoes later, yeah we are still together. maybe any two believers CAN make iti work, but it sure is mighty lonely without genuine attraction. it seems like a real waste to spend an entire life time eith someone who barely tolerates your presence because you are traveling in the same direction :(

I think it was a really REALLY bad idea.

how do I order it through this site? I buy from amazon .com.....don't know how to link it through this site

It's hard to believe how bad I feel over someone I never met. Thank you for sharing this young man with us.

I just saw this today. Rottie girl, I am so sorry. I felt like I knew nico from all of the stories you used to share about her. How wonderful that she waited for your mother, I have no doubt that you are right.

I miss my dog terribly and it has been 21 years. Others come along, but noone ever really takes the place of that first *baby* :( Some times I get a weird feeling even now that she still has her watchful eyes on me. ^I hope that I will get the chance to thank her one day,

Hope that your enjoying your new girl.

Oh, sure. But they didn't incur any costs by recruiting YOU to sacrifice the use of YOUR living room.

Cheap sons of byotches!

Or your toilet paper or your raised utilities or your coffee or refreshments or tvs and vcrs....ypou postage and money orders...whew

United with you both in prayer. So sorry for your struggles.

7. When one is suspected of homo/lesbian.

I knew two different women booted for being suspected lesbians. Don`t let the fact that they were married mothers of

multiple children, deceive you when genuine spiritual suspicion by a leader is involved

8. Being possessed.

Usually it was because you had the unmitigated gaul to defend yourself when under attack from a leader.

8. Wouldn`t swear a loyalty oath.

quote: Are you serious?? The people who called him on his crap, who caught him in his lies, who tried to report his abuse were immediately thrown out, declared to be possessed so that nobody would listen to what they had to say.

Many people tried.

Rascal, I was talking about his enemies, not people in twi. People in twi questioned his research and of course his morals, but I don't recall anyone inside twi ever questioning his doctorate. The enemy source that comes to mind is the article about twi in the 'Mindbenders' book. The guy who wrote that book is/was a real piece of work IMO. He was an insufferable, sarcastic blowhard. But I don't recall him saying anything about VPs doctorate. He may have; I just don't recall it. BTW as an aside....one of the so called benefits of pfal was that it 'enables you to separate truth from error', right? That's why I wasn't afraid to read the Mindbenders article; that's why I'm not afraid to come here. Simply watching TV or reading a newspaper gives me all the opportunity I need to practice separating truth from error, however.

John, the fact that we were so deceived by wierwille would I think, be a big indicator that in spite of its claims, pfal was a failure at teaching us separation of truth from error.

Are you serious?? The people who called him on his crap, who caught him in his lies, who tried to report his abuse were immediately thrown out, declared to be possessed so that nobody would listen to what they had to say.

Many people tried.

When trying to leave the wow field and app corpes year, I was told by lc N T0wnsend that I had made a commitment to God, that to break it was to break a vow, that I was lying to God. Goodness look what happened to Annanias and Saphira when they lied....

Was I going to let a bunch of paracitical cells to prevent me from honoring my commitment? (I owed God and the ministry that taught us God`s word so much more than that doncha know?)

A fetus was not alive until first breath.

Said at ark limb meeting for wows by John Sc0tt.....Peter sank when he began to focus on the five senses, when he stopped looking at his leader and obeying. Our leaders work for God today, if we don`t obey them, if we allow our five senses (aka common sense) to interfere with orders, to trick us, no matter how much we dislike or disagree we will sink also, we will miss out on the blessings of getting to see a miracle. Besides, even if our leader is wrong, God HAS to cover and make it ok because of the believing in our hearts.

at a local twig leader meeting in south florida we were told to go see our people to see who was in debt by looking thru kitchen drawers our any bills laying around that had a balance on credit cards and confront them about it ! never could do it and quit the cult 5 years ago !!

Wow, that is insane.

quote: Why do people continue to call him Doctor, even though they know his doctorate was as phony as a three dollar bill?

What motivates them to do that?

Because not everybody is obsessed with disrespecting him as you are. To me that's like saying "You know Jesus wasn't really an ordained clergyman, don't you?"

So what?

Um what is disrespectful about pointing out the fact that he wasn`t a doctor,that in using the title the man was a fraud, a liar?

VPW didn`t have the education or credentials of a doctor, maybe that was why he proved so unqualified to teach, to minister to, and conduct himself as a christian leader. That would explain his many shortcomings.

Maybe if he had had the discipline, the stamina and endurance required to work and honestly earn that doctorate, he might also have developed the character and maturity necessary to be dealing with peoples lives and spiritual well being.

Presenting himself as a doctor was a flat out lie. Presenting himself as a Christian or leader on behalf of God was an obscenity.

I have to agree with a soft answer turning away wrath. Vulgarity and swearing are simply a way of being offensive. Do it if you want but don`t even pretend that it is for a practical purpose, or some valid spiritual reason.

As far as out in the world, I have to disagree with the assessment that a curse word is necessarily an effective to make ones point. One of the very first thing we are taught in martial arts is to avoid conflict. If someone is in our face trying to force confrontation, to try to diffuse their anger, to try to walk away. If we can understand this in the fighting world...lol how much MORE so than in the christian arena?

I think this is just another example of where we were taught to find biblical sounding reasons to justify boorish behavior and excuse bullying.

Lifted, I am so sorry.

Amazing comparison. All outside influences and input were slowly eliminated from our lives. Families and friends, employers, neighbors, in short, anyone who genuinely cared for us were soon cut out of our lives because they were natural man, apt to be working for satan. Books, newspapers, television were all eliminated as distractions. Outside activities were considered to be stealing from God`s time and resources.

Anyone or thing that might have provided balance or a reasonable perspective were silenced.

Your leader became the sole voice. If they liked you, or you had resources or skills they needed. life was tolerable. If they didn`t ....you were hounded as one who is spiritually unfit.

Abuse became acceptable because they loved you and were trying to make you better.

Of course, those of us who survived twi thrived once we recovered from the experience.

Amen

Nother big threat...posession!

Talk to someone who had left the ministry and you risked possession by the same devil spirits that had affected the person whom had left.

I remember this in particular being warned not to talk to anyone who had been to any meeting that rd and jl hosted after they left twi.

How about the threat that God couldn`t protect you if you didn`t tithe?

You bet, big hype about going wow or corpes, the spiritual blessings, unmatched spiritual growth.....you were God`s superstar! However you found out if you needed to leave for any reason...THEN you find out that you have made an unbreakable vow to God....that to not complete ....you were breaking your commitment to God = Lying to God = the consequences reaped by annanias and saphira.....

Death period. Scarier than physical death were the veiled threats of spiritual death that would occur with out God`s protection and love.

Darned right we were threatened.

Johniam said.....

You're right, Waysider. We WERE like a sales force. So what? Why is that automatically "unchristian". What we did got the word of God to people and that's what counts. I know you doubt that, but you don't speak for everybody who ever took pfal. Many of us are still grateful for having done so. I think VP was clever for applying sales techniques to modern day Christianity. It worked; thousands of us found it helpful.

Jesus certainly wasn't "faking it" on the cross.

I don`t know about unchristian, I do think it is down right wrong. God certainly doesn`t need a sales force to move in peoples hearts and lives. He isn`t a product to be peddled period. So scripture was packaged and marketed in an attractive form....it is nothing ... a tinkling cymbal nothing more than pretty sound... without charity, without the love of God behind it..

I think it extremely detrimental. People were taught and believed that knowledge of the scriptures and operation of the principles there in equated with being christian and walking in the spirit. The arrogance of this misconception can prevent one from ever actually enjoying a genuine spirit filled walk in this life. It`s all works.

No power for most of northern alabama from Birmingham north...No hope for several days as a main line from browns ferry was destroyed along with major towers and dozens of sub stations...no power for gas stations, street lights or signals....water to be conserved....no power for stores refridgerators...etc Curfews in effect for the night roads closed....never seen anything like it.

I am staying open. The forums will stay open. Although I will probably condense the number of forums. Some of them are not used very often.

Thank you, thank you very much.

Makes an awful lot of sense. Now after the carnage...I read where there are now sheep (wolves?) that claim those whom were chased, bitten, or witnessed the slaughter by ravening wolves, are simply mistaken about the damage we experienced....

Wiley once exposed wolves now recovering themselves with fleece...hidden...regathering the scattered flock....leading them away, out of site from the shepherd where they again can wreak havoc.

Hate it