So_crates

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

What's the deal with the blood? Is that a mark miss for JWs

JWs believe the soul is in the blood. So, by transfusing the blood, you're als transfusing the soul.

A woman in her 40s just came to my door and started to pitch knowledge in the bible.

"Ma'am, I'm going to save you a lot of time," I told her. "I'm not interested in joining church."

"This isn't for a church," she said, "we're just sharing what we know from the bible." She started back into her pitch pointing to the tract she had.

"Ma'am, I was with The Way International for the better part of my life."

At that point she said "Okay", terminated the conversation and went on her way to the next house.

Could she have been with The Way?

It's the abrupt termination that makes me wonder.

53 minutes ago, oldiesman said:

Yes we believe first, but still is God's option to bring it to pass.   These experiences are evident in faith-based churches and even charismatic Catholic churches.    Regarding laying on of hands, prayers and healings:  the catholic church close to where Iive would put TWI to shame how aggressive they are

And this is one of the reasons why I think the whole thing is a scam.  As long as they can blame you for failure, they're covered.

Let me ask you, when you go skydiving, how long does it take gravity to respond? Or do you just dangle in midair like Wile E. Coyote?

Why is believing different than any other universal law?

17 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Let me ask you? Do you believe people can manifest God’s power? 

A more pertinent question would be: do I believe people in the Way manifest God's power? The answer is no.

I think most of the upper structure knew the whole thing was a con, they just went along with it for whatever they could gain out of it, al la Rummy Michens in Major Barbara .

53 minutes ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Since breaking away from TWI and VPW’s control to keep you in a cycle of failure,  have you begun to manifest the power of God, bringing about healings and miracles?

And your point is...?

This is like Saint Vic preaching about unicorns and me saying we never were meant to have unicorns, so you respond: Since you left the ministry have you gotten any unicorns?

33 minutes ago, Stayed Too Long said:

In a previous post I wrote how other people had to forgive their wrong doers, and only then could they move on with their lives. That is why I started talking about forgiveness

I think many of us here have done a brilliant job of moving on with our lives. We've succeed not because of, but in spite of the Way.

33 minutes ago, Stayed Too Long said:

 

Some may have and some may have not. If they have forgiven, according to the article I quoted, they have a better chance of moving on with their lives.

We've moved on, we're in it won't happen again mode.

Methinks thou protests too much. What haven't you forgiven and is stopping you from moving on with your life?

We were told we would manifest the power of God. How many do you know really did? How many healing and miricles are you aware that news of such didn't come from a friend of a friend (a ministry urban legend) ?

You see, the truth of the matter is that we were never meant to manifest the power of God,  to become successful. Because if we ever did manifest that power we would become to Independent and, in Saint Vic's mind, might no longer need him. So it was to his benefit to keep us in a cycle of failure which would keep us dependent on the ministry.

You would think God would want you to succeed and be a shining example of his love. Yet, the ministry was based on you failing.

6 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

How  did you come to that conclusion?

Why would someone come onto a place where Way victims congregate and start talking about forgiving?

Do you think we haven't forgiven all the evil The Way brought?

There's forgiving, then there's warning others. If someone mugged me in certain place I could forgive the mugger. However, I would also warn other to stay away from the place were the mugging occurred.

1 hour ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Yes, God requires forgiveness by his followers when they have been wronged.

Yah, forgiveness.

Everytime my mother would betray me, she would want to be forgiven. "We've got to start over from scratch," she would say. So I would forgive and forget and all she was really doing was setting me up for her to do the same thing all over again.

It sound to me like you want us to forgive and forget.

God require us to forgive, he says nothing about us having to forget.

God says we are to be as wise a serpents, which includes not falling into the same trap again.

The ministry sending out time to come home cards feels like deja vu all over again.

The type of forgiveness you want us to have requires trust and trust is earned.

Did Saint Vic know that he knew that he knew? Depends on what you think he knew. I, personally, think he knew he was running a con.

Proof of this is in the POP paper. Saint Vic went to G33r whining that Martindale was "ruining the whole thing.* Just what was the "whole thing?"

Upon leaving that meeting, Saint Vic said, "Well bring it back."

Notice, in both instances, there was no ta!k of for the glory of God, or the people needing the Word. Just ruining the 'whole thing" and "bringing it back.'

Saint Vic was talking about ruining the con and that he wanted to bring it back.

On 8/5/2023 at 9:00 AM, chockfull said:

Mike you want to get away from all the hate?  Well a camera offers a great analogy.  What you focus on is what you become.  Vol 1 Chap 1 of the Blue Book - your substitution for the New Testament.

I thought you were a paradigm of living the collaterals.  I mean they are what you worship.

Are you slipping here?

I couldn't say it better than this

33 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

It is a juvenile expression of hate.

 

Kinda like "Corps Nazis" and "Snappers," right?

On 8/15/2023 at 8:16 PM, Mike said:

you aren't looking a lot at the verses I've cited here, you can't possibly follow my words about them.  Go back, write down all the verses, and study them a little bit. Get familiar with them, and then you may be able to see what I am talking about.

You'll NEVER do it without the verses fresh in mind while you read my words about them.  Kinda logical, eh?

Sure, why not?

If I narrow my thinking to only what I see I'd come to the conclusion that the earth is flat.  We know better, don't we?

On 8/15/2023 at 5:04 PM, Mike said:

If a human properly responds to God's intervention, the world is flooded with good.   If a human responds to the adversary's intervention, lots of people suffer

Then there's the questions salvation brings:

Does God "budget" who gets saved when?

Does the individual seeking salvation have to wait for "doors" to open?

On 8/15/2023 at 5:04 PM, Mike said:

If a human properly responds to God's intervention, the world is flooded with good.   If a human responds to the adversary's intervention, lots of people suffer

So what happened to Saint Vic's promise that we'll manifest the power of God if we believe?

Suddenly there are so many caveats on manifesting that the odds are slim that you'll manage to jump through all the hoops.

You have to know what's available.

You have to know how to receive it.

You have to know what to do with it when you got it.

You have to have needs and wants balanced.

You have to believe.

You have to know a corresponding bible verse.

It has to be God's will.

Doors have to be open

It has to fit God's budget.

Sounds to me like Saint Vic claimed we have a billion dollars in the bank. Then he put so many conditions on withdrawing the money, he knew we'd never get it out of the bank.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

 

I'm not saying anything related to that. 
I do not draw those conclusions, or anything like them.

Yes you are. Those are the logical conclusions of your claims.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

 

I'm only trying to tie together a bunch of odd scriptures I've seen over a span of 52 years, and trying to put words together that may explain them.

So you're saying any explanation will do,  no matter how irrational?

1 hour ago, Mike said:

I don't jump to concussions about it like you are doing.  

More like reading what you wrote.

For example, you claim there's more evil. In the world, yet your theory states there should be an equal amount of good. You try to explain this away as God is limited by us. Yet you ignore all the prayers God received at any given time.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

If you aren't looking a lot at the verses I've cited here, you can't possibly follow my words about them.  Go back, write down all the verses, and study them a little bit. Get familiar with them, and then you may be able to see what I am talking about

Maybe you need to go back and rethink the theory you parroted from Saint Vic. Maybe you need to go back and realize he was desperately looking for a reason to explain his own impotence to some honked off followers.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

.

You'll NEVER do it without the verses fresh in mind while you read my words about them.  Kinda logical, eh?

No, it's not logical, because you're sacrificing the logic of what I'm pointing out in favor of one of Saint Vic's excuses and your pet theories.

Logic is people pray to God and believe. You claim there's a door of some sort that opens allowing God to act and at the same time Satan acts. You also claim there's a rise in evil in the world. Well, logic would dictate a rise in evil a rise in good, as people are praying. Logic would also dictate that if God is limited by our belief then Satan is limited by our fear.

Logical, eh?

1 hour ago, Mike said:

No.   I see the "double-door equal limitations" thing applying to available interventions by the spirit world into the physical, and not applying to human behavior.  

If a human properly responds to God's intervention, the world is flooded with good.   If a human responds to the adversary's intervention, lots of people suffer.

Limited by human intervention, huh? You mean to tell me of all the people praying at any given time God can't find any good to do?

Also, then the devil is limited by our fears, right? Fears being negative believing.

As the universe leans in the direction of balance, I would think for every evil thing done, God could easily answer a prayer and do some good. Yet you claim there's more evil than good in the world.

27 minutes ago, Mike said:

God has put an "insulating blanket" around the physical realm, which limits the ability of the devil to rule his inherited world.  It also limits God's ability to get things through the insulation, but His foreknowledge and all knowing power is still there to work within this limitation to get His will enacted, eventually. Someday the insulation will be removed.
 

In a prior post in this thread you asked haven't we noticed more evil in the world?

I responded,  If there is more evil in the world, and your claim is true (as stated in the quote above) then shouldn't there also be an equal amount of good in the world?

5 minutes ago, Mike said:

I do remember that!

The "life of their own" was another thing I never understood. 

It seems pretty subjective.   What is "life" mean here.

Again, I need supporting sentences.




Was that on page 22 of the syllabus?

What you need is a better excuse for not owning up to the facts.

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

The same way ALL of you stayed out of the loop on this and many other items: by our old man nature dragging us down to a halt at times.

I believe even the best of us have hardly scratched the surface of learning from the collaterals, and that is why mastering them was in the #1 slot of importance on VPW's Bucket List Teaching.

Yah, the guy who couldn't master keeping his pants zipped is telling us what we need to master. Saint Vic wasn't master of his domain.

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

His final instructions to leaders at the top (and applicable to born again believers) were to come back to PFAL. 

Yah, come back to PLAF so we could lead you further into the kingdom of the blind.

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

I finally heeded that instruction for 20 years of weekly study of the collaterals with others and on my own. 

And what's it done for you? Given you hubris so you can feel you're better than everyone else? Paging Helen Keller!

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm still out of the loop, still mastering the collaterals, and still learning much.

As I can see by your inability to be humble and meek and apply the law of believing.

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm still out of the loop on some things due to the lost months and years, but am thankful for how well things have worked out since 1998, when I seriously came back to the collaterals.

Like I said, I can see that in your inability to make the law of believing your own.

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

I look forward to more years learning what was actually in print, and clarifying more items like this cancer spirit thing. 

What's to clarify? See Waysider's previous post. Saint Vic said it period, full stop. Now you said Saint Vic used the same teachings as Jesus et Al as far as devil spirits. Did Jesus teach cancer was a devil spirit.

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

It was a very reliable source that told me VPW said SOMETHING like "cancer is a spirit" in an early AC.  I only have one AC from that time period. 

I don't doubt VPW said something like that one sentence, and a lot more supporting sentences to go with it.  Someday I may find it, or find someone who took good notes from that class.

Read Waysider's previous post.

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

What I do doubt heavily are all the accounts here that I have read of that one short sentence.  None of them ever have had the supporting sentences that I need to interpret such a sentence or one like it.

You mean like you supplied the supporting sentances for the word of God is the will of God?

Or how about the supporting sentences for your claim God can lie evidence that Saint Vic was a MOG and spoke for God. How about the supporting sentences for your claim God gave Saint Vic permission to steal others work.

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

*/*/*

 

Then there is the possibility that VPW made a mistake in that early AC.  I am open to that, but not without the supporting sentences.  It's all guesswork what he taught on this. 

Yah, those eight people that stayed it, all guesswork. \s

Waysider presented you the text straight out of the AC collateral. Not guesswork, fact?

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

I recently became friends with an old grad who may have info on this.  No guarantees.

Why bother? If you get an answer contrary to your narrative you'll twist it to something that fits your narrative.

Remember what I said about length of post and effort to con.

Mike, in the land of the blind, a one eyed man is king.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

I have never even once heard or read VPW teach anything on cancer and spirits.  Not once

I'm surprised you haven't. Below are post by people that have. This is from the first 20 of 86 pages in search. Many of the post had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

On 7/22/2021 at 5:39 AM, skyrider said:

Lest we forget how profound advanced class teachings were......."Cancer is a devil spirit."  Wierwille taught this in his advanced classes.  Wierwille dies of cancer.  Need I say more?

The contradictions, the insanity......of groupthink.

“Insanity in individuals is something rare — but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule.”   Fredrich Nietzsche

On 6/6/2021 at 9:38 AM, skyrider said:

Wierwille's "ministry" and legacy is in the trash bin of history.  For 20 years, GSC has shown the evil face behind its mask.

Labeling the stolen class [from Rev. B.G. Leonard] as "Power for Abundant Living"........was a marketing ploy.  Wierwille was a thief and had to take his stolen goods to a *chop shop* to strip and alter the vehicle to something else.......to disguise the theft.  He used deception with ease, without guilt or shame.

Labeling his church building "The Way Biblical Research and Teaching Center" did NOT make it so.  With each passing year, he strayed more into private interpretation as he added *Advanced Studies Classes* to generate a system of indoctrination.  Cash flow, baby......    I contend that wierwille's narcissist ambitions were to establish a dependency on twi.......not on Christ Jesus, the mediator between God and man.  Wierwille's aim was focused on the subjugation of his followers!!!

These past 20 years, hundreds of GSC threads have exposed Wierwille's revisionist history.  Of course, wierwille boasted and expounded profusely during those corps night owl meetings when he was liquored up with plenty of Drambuie, his favorite drink.  He detailed accounts of hearing an audible voice from God, snow on the gas pumps, studying into the wee hours of the morning for 12 years to unearth the truths of the Scriptures, etc. etc.  And, the Wierwille German  family history was broadcasted loud and proud time and again......even Mrs. Wierwille's book spends ample time on this to tweak the indoctrination message of "The Way, Inc."  The year 1982, the designated year of wierwille's retirement (after 40 years of his ministry work --- cough, cough)........was when Wierwille's narcissism and boasting came center stage.  Hours and hours of detailing the wierwille family history at "Living Victoriously."  Wine glasses with the wierwille crest were sold in the Way's bookstore.  Little wierwille statues could be purchased for your desk or home.

The corps training was an indoctrination program.  The corps were sent forth with marching orders to run classes.......i.e. subjugate followers.  Every cog in the machine was geared for followship........not fellowship.  Even to this day, there are indoctrinated ex-corps who have NOT connected the dots of wierwille's deception.  They are devotees/idolaters who spout the cult-clap cliches and buzzwords that we all heard thousands of times.  Corps who endeavored to research Scripture that was outside the boundaries of wierwille's system were slapped back into line, or black-listed.  Heck, even Schoenheit's research on "Adultery is a Sin" was deep-sixed by Walter Cummings, the Research Department Head Coordinator.  In fact, you'd get pozzezzed just reading it.......what a sh!t-show accusation.  Backed by Geer, Finnegan, Townsend, others?  Nobody could challenge this?

Wierwille died of cancer.  Does twi go back and examine wierwille's teachings at the Advanced Classes that CANCER IS A DEVIL SPIRIT?  Nope.  Silence.  You are not allowed to challenge wierwille's teachings.  You are NOT allowed to disagree with the way cult.

If you dissent, then they "mark and avoid" you.  The Scientologists call it "disconnect."  The Amish consider it "shunning."

A journey that may have started as biblical research for some........morphed into twi-indoctrination.  The errors/deception in doctrine led to errors/deception in practice.  Mandates were established to instill subservience:

• Foundational books only sold to PFAL grads.  In-house bookstore.  Indoctrination marketing.
• Series of classes build on twi-doctrine....ie. Renewed Mind.  Why in the past tense?  Scripture says "renewing of the mind"....
• Cancer is a devil spirit.  Wierwille died of cancer.  Did wierwille die possessed of a devil spirit?  Or, was wierwille wrong?
• No debt-policy.  For 26 years, twi had a mandated policy of no debt for certain classes, leadership positions.  What changed?
• No pregnancy policy.  Corps grads were mandated to NOT get pregnant....or released from employment.  Why?
• No homosexuals allowed......yet, Rosalie had two lesbians living in her basement.  No one could call her out on it?
• Two-by-two policy.  Who enforced this policy?  Was Donna allowed to go shopping by herself?  LOL
• Founders Hall mandates.  Off-grounds leniency.  Two-tier system benefits some and not others.
• Subjugation.  Indoctrination.  Subservience.  It's around every corner at The Way International.

And now, Donna is the CEO of The Way International........when every rule and mandate that wierwille established was that EACH CORPS COUPLE was treated as a unit of one.  If the husband screwed up, both husband and wife were dropped from active corps [DFAC].  If the wife was "off the Word" and rebellious, then the husband was reproved for not leading her correctly and BOTH were dismissed from the corps program.  YET, that is not what happened with Donna.  She was given special compensation, because of her *close association* with Rosalie.  Hypocrisy and complicity.....as the "rulers" have their own set of no accountability. Donna got to lay low for several years and incrementally, and strategically, build her status back to prominence.  LOL.  See how that works?  Rules for thee, but not for SHE.

Indoctrination Central Command is still plugging along.

Welcome to the cult.  

 

 

On 5/4/2019 at 4:48 PM, waysider said:

I think it was in the Advanced Class that VPW claimed some guy tried to cast out a spirit without having been given revelation to do so. The spirit supposedly smacked the guy silly and laid him out on the floor.The lesson we were supposed to get from this was that you are not supposed to act without guidance to do so.But, of course, you still have the whole deal with VP dying from cancer. You probably recall that he also taught in the Advanced Class that cancer is a devil spirit. So, the guy  who we followed because we thought he was the spiritual guru of the entire world was either possessed or (more likely) full of beans on this whole subject of devil spirits and  a whole lot of other stuff. And, now we have people like this R&R group who want us to believe them when they perpetuate this regurgitated sort of rubbish.

On 3/21/2015 at 1:22 AM, MRAP said:

Cancer is from ds possession, was that taught in the advanced course? I am being rehtorical. It was best then for me to have stayed on the field and been later ostrised from TWI rather than going deeper. Yeh, advanced class, met alot of grads, like military academy grads, all theory and no ability to execute a mission (don't want to generalize). I do recall that VPW stated that he wished that he would have never taught that course to people since they did nothing with it - I always thought that the AC grads wielded special spiritual capability - if that were so, why was I asked to ..... by a grad, should have been her job. Kind of a round about way to get to this about cancer and ds's but is it possible? Think of the connection of the manifestations and what was Jesus healing, many times removing ds's, just because TWI leaders could not do it, does not mean that ain't the case. This is all just food for thought and probably should be on the doctrinal forum.

On 10/18/2012 at 7:20 AM, OldSkool said:

VP was an idiot. He also said cancer was devil spirit possession and then died of cancer. Alcoholism has no more to do with possession than cancer does.

On 7/20/2011 at 12:47 PM, frank123lol said:

Double standard: We care about you=We want your money.

Truth needs no defense=we(twi)has to approve it.

Cancer is a devil spirit=only if your name is'nt doc vic.

History is important=Again only if it is the way.

Integrity of tghe word=As has been said vic's version.

If the bible is true,it has been around a long time,men and women have come and gone

It will be here after we are gone.Point?It ain't based on one individual unless his name is Jesus

On 6/6/2011 at 3:58 PM, Broken Arrow said:

He taught that cancer was a devil spirit. Not that it was caused by a devil spirit, but that it was, in fact, a devil spirit in itself. So, was Wierwille possessed, or was his teaching wrong? Wait a minute! His teaching can't be wrong since what he taught was the greatest revelation of God's Word since the first century. Wierwille received it from God Himself. So he must have been...no wait! VP was the Man of God and therefore could not have been possessed! So, he was neither possessed and he didn't teach wrongly. Confusing, isn't it? Either way, Wierwille and TWI lose.

I'm not sure if the folks who weren't around while Wierwille walked amongst mortal man can appreciate just how "heavy" this really is. He literally stood up there in front of us and very matter-of-factly talked about how cancer has life in itself and therefore a spirit. He also talked about how disciplined his mind was and that he entertained no thoughts contrary to The Word. He also said repeatedly that God promised to teach him the Word better than it's been know since the First Century if he would teach it to others. Then he died of cancer. The only thing TWI could do was suppress the cause of death. It's public record, though. Anyone can see it for themselves.

On 8/2/2010 at 8:06 PM, dmiller said:

Not sure I'd call it "funny". Perhaps Lying/ Blasphemous/ Down-Right-Hypocritical/ Deceiving/ You-Name-It/ is more applicable.

According to his own teachings, cancer was caused by devil spirits. According to his own teachings, "devil spirits" had to have a "willing host".

According to his own teachings - - "Believing equals receiving". Draw your own conclusions from what he taught, versus his life/ and death.

Docvic died from cancer (according to him) caused by devil spirits in a willing host. Where the H*** was HIS believing?

He died from over indulgence, and lost his eye before fertilizing the daisies. Bright lights from the filming had nothing to do with it.

The line "He gave his eye for the Word" is just plain old unadulterated CR@P. "B" as in "B", and "S" as in "S".

The bright lights at the filming of the class was nothing more than an "excuse", and foisted upon us all as "truth".

It's amazing (well - - not really now that I know, that I know, that I know) how the "wagons got circled around the MOG"

to protect him and the "discrepancies" when someone of that "status" stepped in $h!t too deep to get out.

And then would turn around and castigate "Joe Believer" for not "Living up to the Word".

No, it's not "funny" in the least. Self-serving and deceptive? Yes.

On 6/28/2010 at 4:32 PM, Gen-2 said:

In this regard, OldSkool VPW spent comparably little to make the PFAL Class (The Basis of the con) The Hook was the Green Card promises.

In PFAL Advanced classes, cancer was described as being caused by Devil Spirits as well as it was in the Dealing With the Adversary class. It must have upset the master Con Man when he found he had cancer in his eye.

Talk about kharmic effect. "If you keep doing that you're going to go blind" being a standard cliché for any sexual sin and cancer (which he taught to be caused by devil spirits) being Wierwille's actual cause of death.

But we hear what the Way's carnival barkers all told us, "It cost the MOG his eye...." as though there was no cancer involved. The story was, how "The bright lights from filming the original PFAL Class caused irreparable damage to his eye,...." and then they would add,.....

"What has the Word of God cost you?"

The real question is - What will you provide our Jesus? Some sex, your money, some free labor? will you give enough to ensure the MOGs HOGs and Mini-MOGs and Mini-HOGs can lazily live off of you like leaches? The believe that is their right, yanno? This food chain gets hungrier as you get closer to the HOGFODAT, even when it's not hungry, it wants to eat.

Can't sign up enough new people for WAP, yanno. Why are adults not signing up for the Advanced Class? why? Well send your children then, no matter how young.

At the very BOTTOM LINE,.... The Way wants to be ~ FED ~

Now. Mike, how did you manage to stay out of the loop?

42 minutes ago, Mike said:

I heard that sentence "cancer is a devil spirit" in the early 70s, and asked it that was taught in the AC.   The answer to me was "yes" however it was followed by much more detail that I did not yet understand.

Mike: I heard that sentence "cancer is a devil spirit" in the early 70s, and asked it that was taught in the AC.   The answer to me was "yes" however it was followed by much more detail that I did not yet understand.

Me: If you didn't understand the detail how can you be sure Saint Vic didn't teach it?

42 minutes ago, Mike said:

I have never even once heard or read VPW teach anything on cancer and spirits.  Not once !

 

Just because you didn't hear Saint Vic teach cancer is a devil spirit doesn't mean he didn't.

Didn't you claim a few threads ago that Saint Vic didn't claim that the class taught prosperity?

42 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

No one here ever reported any detail on this, besides the oversimplified sentence above.

Mike: No one here ever reported any detail on this, besides the oversimplified sentence above.

Me: Contradict yourself much? First your saying there were details you didn't understand and now your saying the sentence was oversimplified.

42 minutes ago, Mike said:

I had heard that it was in an early AC, but all my searches turned up nothing... so far. There is one more AC to check, but it needs mp3 to text conversion

And, naturally, those three classes were every Advanced Class there was. What if the statement was made in one of the classes you don't have?

49 minutes ago, Mike said:

I have looked into this a lot.  I see from your bolded words above, you are far from the truth on this matter.  You are way over simplistic.

I see how the weakness of cancer can lead to a devil spirit.
I can see how a devil spirit operations can lead to cancer.

I can see how some cancer cases are physical only.  The advances in modern medicine here have helped to calm many fears previously connected to cancer.

I have been thinking similarly about schizophrenia.  There is the physical and the spiritual, and sometimes they are interrelated.  One can lead to the other, but not guaranteed.

If it were as simple as "cancer is a spirit" then there would be no need for spiritual discerning of spirits.

 

And this addresses Saint Vic's claim that cancer is a devil spirit how?

You recall what I said about the longer the post the greater the con? Congratulations, you just proved it.

52 minutes ago, Mike said:

I did a quick search for only one word. subconscious, in two AC's and found none.  It was not a thorough super search.

Are you "sure" he said something in one of the AC's contradicting this?  I don't think you are.  The AC references to "subconscious" are only vague memories in one poster here so far.

Do you see how rushed and incomplete your assessments are here?

 

Right, Waysider remembered it wrong. Just like he remembered the red water clear water demonstration wrong./s

I have way more faith in Waysider's memory then I have in your word.

@waysider