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GeorgeStGeorge

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Posts posted by GeorgeStGeorge

    Are you ready for this?

    in About The Way

    Posted

    Originally posted by rascal:

    George, I will consider your reasoning, and apreciate your reasoning, but still do not understand how that would negate luke.

    QUOTE]

    Rascal, maybe I don't understand what you are reading in Luke. I believe your argument is that Luke 17:3,4 is somehow a directive NOT to forgive someone UNLESS he repents. (In other words, forgive someone ONLY if he repents.) That's not what those verses say. Am I misinterpreting your argument?

    George

    my 2 sons

    in The Prayer Room

    Posted

    Vickie,

    You DO have reasons to be concerned. You DO NOT have reasons to give up. Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.

    I recently had a nephew return from Iraq. I'm sure your son will do the same. I have a brother with serious substance abuse issues. I'd like to say he's overcome them, but what I CAN say is that he's made headway. He and your son will overcome. My wife had severe anxiety and depression (a few years before I met her), but overcame them with professional and ministerial advice. I'm sure you will, too.

    I'm glad your husband has been thaere to hold it together. I pray for all of you.

    George

    Are you ready for this?

    in About The Way

    Posted

    quote:
    Originally posted by rascal:

    Please, just tell me why I am to dismiss the clear instructions in luke....before branding me as a big meanie.

    You're not a big meanie, Rascal, though I think you are making a logical fallacy in your understanding of Luke 17:3,4. "If A then B" does NOT imply "If not A then not B." "If he repent, forgive him" does not imply "If he repents not, forgive him not." The only commandment, as it were, is that if he repents, you MUST forgive him.

    Note that Mark 11:25,26 state that Jesus's followers were to forgive IF THEY HAD OUGHT (SOMETHING)AGAINST ANY. In fact, jesus told them that if they did not forgive, neither would God forgive them! It's a little better in the Grace Administration, where we are told to forgive BECAUSE we've been forgiven (Eph. 4:32).

    As has been pointed out by others, it does the forgiver good to forgive. This is NOT absolution. It's not denying that wrong was done. It doesn't mean you have to be buddies with those that have hurt you. It does mean that you're bigger than the pain.

    God bless,

    George

    The pits

    in Prayers Complete / Praises

    Posted

    When I took the "live" Advanced Class in 1979, I remember VP asking for a show of hands among of who among the students had, at one time or another, contemplated suicide. I was shocked to see about two-thirds of the hands go up. The good news is, obviously, that they were all still there.

    Keep talking it out, with professionals AND us. In the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

    There is probably a spiritual attack along with the emotional (and physical?) one you are experiencing. I pray for you in my spirit and my understanding.

    George

    P.S.: Another reason to hang tough: don't let the WayGB think that they're right! icon_wink.gif;)-->

    Renouncing The Word Because of Others' Sins

    in About The Way

    Posted

    quote:
    Originally posted by ex10:

    Geeze

    Thanks rascal for getting the point. George, you are comparing apples to oranges, when bringing up the book of Job. That has nothing to do with so-called ministers of the church, abusing their flock.

    Duh.

    Though that wasn't my point, Ex10, I should point out that Job's "friends" and the self-appointed prophet, Elihu, did most of the abusing.

    I took your previous comment to be more general in nature. Sorry if I didn't interpret it in light of the full context.

    George

    Four Crucified, Six Denials, and Other Stuff

    in About The Way

    Posted

    quote:
    Originally posted by johniam:

    I have issues with #4. Not once does the word say ANY believer is possessed. Both Acts 16 and Acts 19 have unbelievers who are called possessed. The closest it comes to calling a believer possessed is a) satan entering into the heart of Judas Iscariot when Judas left to betray Jesus. and b) Ananias of Acts 5 being told by Peter, "why hath satan filled (pleroo) thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost?" right before he died. (I used to hear this crap that Ananias died because the temperature of believing caused it or something. From Acts 5:2 it could be argued that Ananias was trying to infiltrate leadership with a bribe and Peter caught him and the spirits that were influencing him had enough control of his life that they killed him when they saw they would get no more "mileage" out of him in this situation.) I don't think it's far fetched to say that devil spirits can influence believers. They obviously did Judas, but if God in His word doesn't call believers possessed, perhaps we shouldn't either.

    I might point out Acts 5:14-16. It's clear that the sick who were brought to Peter in v.15 were of the multitude of believers. It's also possible (though I can't say for certain) that those "vexed with unclean spirits" in v.16 were also believers.

    George

    Four Crucified, Six Denials, and Other Stuff

    in About The Way

    Posted

    My notes in bold

    Originally posted by Eagle:

    The devil would have to be a being everywhere at once and know everybody who is confessing him as Lord in order for him to impart unholy spirit,

    Untrue, since those that are lost have been blinded by the god of this world. His children didn't just all of a sudden make the Devil lord, they were seduced into it over time. The Devil does not have to be everywhere present to orchestrate this.

    Note to Raf: our gospel is hid to them THAT ARE LOST, i.e., they will not be saved to the uttermost. UNTIL they were lost, they had that chance.

    and since he is a fallen angel, a limited being, how much of himself can he impart?

    I don't know that he actually imparts of himself, but it is evident that he has finitely many children.

    The idea that born-again Christians can be possessed means that the devil spirits have to take control and operate a physical body that already has God's holy spirit within. If they are doing that, they are pretty much controlling what the Bible has called "the tabernacle" or "the temple" of the holy spirit.

    As does an unpossessed believer, by his free will.

    This Seed of the Serpent concept VPW brought forth made the devil _equal_ with God.

    No, the Devil mimics and perverts what God does.

    The idea that the devil or devil spirits can take over the temple of the holy spirit made the devil _superior_ to God.

    No more so than any believer choosing not to do as the spirit leads is greater than God.

    Remember, the Bible made it clear light and darkness do not cohabitate and that the clean and unclean had to be separated, especially in the temple.

    Which is why it's up to the believer to keep his tabernacle clean.

    Then remember the weird darkness that fell upon TWI after they began to propound heavily these doctrines.

    QUOTE]

    George

    Before faith came

    in Doctrinal: Exploring the Bible

    Posted

    Thanks for the note, Raf. I looked at my Greek text, but I didn't pay attention to the article (a mistake I don't usually make). Indeed, "THE faith" would tend to substantiate the idea that "the faith" is put by metonomy for Jesus Christ, though it could also be argued that "THE faith" would mean the one, correct faith, which still would come to each of us individually.

    George

    Four Crucified, Six Denials, and Other Stuff

    in About The Way

    Posted

    1. Believe it.

    2. Believe it.

    3. Believe it. To dmiller, LCM explained this. The devil was well aware of the promise of the seed of the woman crushing his seed. He was not able to copy the Christian new birth, of course, but was able to mimic natural seed. This spiritual "seed" left his "children" open to posession at any time. Having committed the unforgivable sin, his children would never turn to the true God.

    4. Believe it, with qualifications. Can a Christian get possessed? Yes. Does this mean the devil spirit "takes over" the holy spirit? I've never heard it put that way, and I would not believe it. A possessed Christian can still operate holy spirit.

    George

    Renouncing The Word Because of Others' Sins

    in About The Way

    Posted

    Actually, the Book of Job is pretty much ALL ABOUT God's tolerance of evil and abuse, until such time as He could demonstrate His power and goodness.

    Sadly, in ExC's case (and others'), it seems that the evil and abuse came AFTER the good. At the risk of jump-starting Oldiesman again (and another round of brownies analogies), I don't think it's fair to begrudge others the learning or blessing they may have received in TWI. I really do wish it could have been all "sweetness and light."

    I pray for all of you who have opened your hearts, not that you would change your opinions of TWI (which would mean ignoring your own experiences), but that you can all be fully healed from the pain.

    George

    Before faith came

    in Doctrinal: Exploring the Bible

    Posted

    That's an interesting alternative, although the context seems to indicate a general condition of mankind before Christ's appearance, rather than an individual state prior to acceptance of Christ. Still, v.27 does refer to baptism, which is an individual event, not a collective one. It merits further study.

    George

    Before faith came

    in Doctrinal: Exploring the Bible

    Posted

    I finally had Galatians 3:23 explained to me in a way that makes sense. "But before FAITH came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the FAITH which should afterwards be revealed." The word faith is an occurence of the figure of speech metonomy whereby "faith" is put for the subject of true faith (or believing, if you will), Jesus Christ. It's not some special "faith" that hadn't come yet, it was Christ who was yet to appear. The same figure is used in v.25 (and perhaps v.24, though I think here that "faith" actuallly means the right believing that Christ made available).

    George

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