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Just to clear up my typo. I did NOT mean to distract from dmiller's orginal topic. Maybe there could be some benefit to us sticking together, and growing in grace together, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Thank you so much for that. I would like to read more of what you all think about dmiller's post Critique --- or Criticize??? I have been reading through some of the editorials and other posts and as I would like to be able to research all the topics independantly ....I am going to need some help. Y'all know what we were taught and I have had numerous discussions with ministers, elders etc of different denominations concerning....salvation by grace or works. Jesus the SON of God, Water baptism just to name a few. For the most part what I believe and understand has only been reinforced. We all have our strengths and areas which we are not so strong. I would like to be involved in some thoughtful, friendly, CRITIQUING. Anyone willing to share with me what you have learned not only from your research but how it applies to what you have learned based on your experience with TWI. respectfully,

John Greven built a guitar for me when he lived just outside of Little Nashville, IN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZY4uNI-Of0 This is a video of John playing one of his guitars. Reminds me of my late good friend Mike Moody. Fingerpickin was his thing.

Just wanted to share this one with you. Moonshiner by Troubled Waters The fiddle player, Kent Todd is a local boy and my 70+ year old mother-in-law just married his grandpa. The guitar player is Dave Denman who played for Alison Krauss at one time. Music makes the world a better place (Grandpa's Mandolin_

That's all that matters to me. The Isaccs This is my first attempt so bear with me.

I did mean to distract from dmiller's orginal topic. As most of you had already said that it was very good.

I am by no means an authority on this subject but I have been on the hourly side of workforce for over 38 years. The R & D experience was a tough lesson but I came out of it more informed and hopefully a little wiser. Some of my general conclusions, personal observations. All of us desperately need structure even though most of us will resist it. Integrity, honesty from the leadership makes any kind of changes easier to incorporate. If you lie to them you can't count the cost. This is all concerning some sort of business but it could apply to other organizations. The company I work for is unionized, sort of a two edged sword from my perspective. There have been up to 1200 people at this facility and for the most part the employees are hard working and dedicated with a few exceptions of course. Dealing with the small percentage of people who over time have proven to be unreasonable usually takes up a tremdous amount of time and energy. It is invaluable to take the time to have a process in place that is fair but none the less absolute to deal with employees who have proven not to be willing to be part of the productive group. With all of the research on statisical process control and the like I think if the social issues are ignored or minimized that is what can seperate a company that survives from a company that thrives.

I apologize for the drive by type posts but the only way I can participate is during breaks. dmiller, The critique or criticize comment was really heads up. In that vain I would like to bounce this off of y'all. I been going to this country (Christian denomination) church with some wonderful folks. Most of them live within just a few miles of me so I know them pretty well. The reason I am there to start with is after all these years avoiding churches I felt compelled to go there. I've been attending for over 2 months now. The minister is a very humble guy and one of the first times I heard him teach he said that everyone should be held accountable for what they believe. I took that as meaning they should be able to back it up with the scripture. He also said if anyone felt he was in error to take him aside and bring it to his attention. In a nutshell, they teach that you are saved by Gods grace, but you've also have to be water baptized and live right. After reading scripture where Jesus says "I am the Son of God" he will say "Christ is God". This is also the guy who went to visit my grandson who was in the hospital with double pneumonia. He stood outside the room and cried while his wife was in the other room comforting my daughter who was having a meltdown. Just to interject.. My sons and I have played music at many different churches over that last several years and this seems to be a consistent pattern where even those who have attended their respective churches for many years do not have a fundamental understanding of the Bible. I have had a discussion with another good friend of mine who happens to have been a minister for several years and I ask him why he believed Jesus is God. I was shocked when he struggled to explain. All of these folks are the salt of the earth and I mean no disrespect whatsoever. I would love for any of them to set down with me and help me understand why the believe the way the do. I know I am heading into doctrinal territory but I am asking where is the line between criticizing or critiquing. Is it motive? How can we critique in order to better understand if people get offended no matter what our motives. Or are we supposed to (because of where we have been) sit back and deny that we know anything? These are questions and not meant to be judging anyone. I want to move on. And I want to know why I believe what I believe and where I am wrong so I can make it right. I appreciate those of you who are willing to critique and not criticize. thanks again dmiller,

Pond, I understand that we can't paint everyone with the same brush that is why I said "some" at the beginning of the post. I am hear as a friend so please understand that I was speaking from my heart as openly and honestly as I know how. I appreciate any and all feedback and I will do my best not to let my ego get in the way. If someone is offended I can guarantee that was not my motive. There are some who say I don't care or you can't hurt me but I do care. I care enough to let my guard down. knowing that makes me vulnerable, look stupid, weak, lame so be it. I don't think I can effectively help or be helped if I do otherwise. Respectfully,

I am listening to people who at one time was full of fire and truly interested in searching for ways to please God. To some that meant researching the Bible, taking classes going to fellowships etc. I love you all so please help me understand how it can be that we have been so hurt or so mad that we stopped doing what we once loved to do. I have the same issues with church and have only recently began going to a local congregation. And like some of you I have kept what I believe to myself just so I do not cause any conflict. But why? Are we not being fooled? What happened with TWI was horrible and I don't fully understand why. I remember when I first gave my heart over to God. It was before the Pentecostal church condemned me and before TWI deceived me. Before I knew squat about anything! I did trust VPW and I was sucked into the trap of having confidence in man. That was a lesson that some never learn. But I still have confidence in the God that I prayed to long before any of this took place. I have let Him down many times but He has never let me down. We all have been down some of the same paths and we all have gotten lost at one time or another but does that mean we are suppose to give up on the thing we once loved so much. I am still scared, confused, doubtful that I will get involved only to be dissappointed again. But there is one thing that keeps burning in me that tells me to keep loving, giving, learning and searching for ways to please God. Because I am still convinced that all of us need to remember what we have been delivered from and what and why the sacrifice was made. Christ, crucified, raised from the dead, so that we might have eternal life. That is where I've been and that is where I am headed. This is what gives me peace and joy and I don't intend on letting anyone or any organization take that away from me ever.

One of the reasons I wanted to bring this up is because a lot of the posts relate to group dynamics. Just as a generalization some of my observations included how they guided the group through so called conscensus building to attain a preconceived result. I believe initially I was accepted into the group because the salaried coordinator was a religious sort and during my interview I mentioned my commitment to Christ. I did not know this till after the fact. Later on when he found out that I was not your typical church going Christian things went south from there. This group was pretty unique in that they were allowed take part in the design and layout of the facility, travel all over Europe (not me) to evaluate different social systems as it related to the work environment. Each member's responsibilities where decided by conscensus. This included everything from designing and operating the equipment, developing training for the group to cleaning the bathroom. We meet for weeks to develope a set of guiding principles, governing values etc that we posted on the wall and took turns reading them out loud at every group meeting. Me being the naive country boy that I am took these to heart. Each member when given a responsibility was suppose to have the authority to direct their piece of the project as they saw fit. I see a lot of the same dynamics in play here at GSC. This is not saying it is all bad, but just be aware and learn from them. To qualify....Several extremely talented people, many in different stages of personal and group development, and some saboteurs along the way just to name a few. Please don't assume that anything else on this post is meant to be any kind of comparison to GSC. During this time I was also coaching the local high schools varsity soccer program. This had me spread pretty thin. Some indication that not all was what it was presented to be started to become obvious when two members of the group got a bonuses for the work that all of us had been doing. One of them happened to be the salaried coordinator and the other the guy who just so happen to be the one who installed computers in the coordinators church. Just a month or so earlier each member was to evaluate each other submit the results which was published for all to see. These evaluations were to have some bearing on who got rewarded monetarily or otherwise. The guy who got the bonus and installed the computers in the churches just so happened to get to lowest evaluation of all in the group. To his credit he was a very good computer tech but he was also blatantly chauvinistic, bigoted and generally did not get along well with anyone. When I first came into the group, during one of the meetings someone made the comment that anytime we traveled that anything that went on was to stay in the group. I spoke up and told them that if they did not want my wife to know about it then don't do it in front of me. That was good for a laugh but that was the beginning of my lesson in group politics. The corporation had two other entities that were attempting to develope the same product by using a two totally different processes. Each of these were allocated somewhere around 9 million dollars. At some point they decided which one was more promising and the other two they would shelve (so no one else could use it) or can it altogether. Ours got canned midstream after millions of dollars in construction, training, travel. I was involved for about 5 years. The project was going about 2 years before I came into it and lasted about a year after I left. I know there is a lot of gaps here but as a general overview it became personally brutal. I was isolated partly because I stood up for what I believed. After a while I became my own worst enemy. I began to withdraw and became contentious. Not that they did not deserve it but I was playing right into their hands. From the beginning we were encouraged to be open and honest, think outside of the box, help one another to the benefit of the group. That is what was said the reality was far from it. They were a couple other individuals that also fell out of favor. One was a lady who had contributed so much to the group but refused to sleep with the union coordinator. After all was said and done it took me several years to figure out just what had taken place. I did learn a lot of valuable lessons but I don't think it was because they were intentionally trying to help me. This was a major deal to me because I took the challenge so seriously. I did not enjoy the cutthroat environment. Even those who you thought were your friends would not stand with you for fear losing some sort of perk or something. Now that I look back I see that some of the manipulation was not just by happenstance but was coordinated to get the desired end result. Admittedly after they lost my trust I made it easy for them. Three of us were ask to leave under the guise that it was a manpower adjustment. Later they brought two more people in. One was the union coordinators brother-in-law the other was an attractive lady whom confided that she had no idea why she was selected but we think we knew. That all ended around 1996 and I am still with the corporation but plan on retiring this year. Life is good, but sometimes there are some hard lessons along the way.

I don't have much time but I wanted to introduce this topic to see if anyone else had been involved in something similar. About 1989 was accepted to join a Die Cast Research and Development experiment that involved Union and Salary people designing their own work rules etc. This revolved around the development of prototype engine block. It sounds sort of bland but some of the techniques involved with numerous encounters with facilatators, offsites and the like. I will discuss more of this in detail later but in a nutshell what it was supposedly our guiding principles. like honesty, integrity, deliver what we promise, treat everyone with respect, everyone is equal never did pan out. In some ways it was brutal. We took many group building seminars, several personality profiles. You found out what the real truth was when you happen to disagree with your supposed equal counterpart.

Just another one of my crazy observations.... How many topics have ever gone far enough to actually lay out enough information so that one can come to some sort of conclusion. Not all but some seemed to get side tracked. It is very difficult not to do and I am as guilty as anyone. Honestly, I am impressed with the knowledge, wisdom, zeal, etc. but somehow it ends up getting thrown under the bus. The process is utterly fascinating and I am grateful to get to see this kind of dialogue.

I was fortunate in that my Greven was made with Brazilian rosewood sides and back. I did consider buying a Sullivan banjo, but being the independant sort that I am I wanted to pick and choose the individual parts. Having said that it is probably as much like a Sullivan as anything else. I had "Hamlin" put on the pedhead because that is the name of the luthier that assembled it for me. Probably won't do much for the resale value but that was not my priority at the time.

JeffSjo, I look forward to reading your posts. Keep them coming

I had an 810 Taylor for a while and the neck was sweet but that was before they decided to change the bracing and at the time they was a little weak on the mid/bass side. Since then I believe they have listened to a few of the customers and have come up with a better bluegrass guitar. The Dan Crary model at that time still did not suit me. Then I bought an D 28 Martin (early 70's) and it just was still not what I was looking for. My current guitar belonged to a luthier friend of mine who was experimenting with an old Sigma. He complained to Martin about the bracing and they sent him a AA grade top. It is pretty much a plain jane nothing fancy guitar but it sounds like an old D 18 on steriods. Mahogany sides and back, but a really nice top. I also have a 000 style guitar that John Greven made for me about 20 some years ago. Really sweet guitar. John also was making a synthetic tortise shell guitar picks that I really like. It is not quite as thickas a toothbrush handle but it is stiff. I once heard that Clarence White had said that you can play soft with hard pick but you can't play loud with a soft pick. My banjo is pretty much a hybrid. I researched, asked my banjo playing buddies and made a few calls to First Quality in Louisville before ordering the parts. Again my luthier friend finished shaping the neck and assembled it for me. At best I am an intermediate player but some of my buddies who are actually banjo players seemed to be fairly impressed with it.

I could not tell if he was playing a Gallagher guitar or not. I knew he used to play one. I found one in Indy several years ago and a friend of mine bought it. The neck was a little beefy and the action stiffer than I prefer. Doc is awesome. I love to hear him play Beaumont Rag.

Hotdog, Peanutbutter, toasted bun. Now that is thinking outside the box. I've heard of peanutbutter on pancakes. Do you also put ketchup in your gravy?

Oh my goodness it's got legs! Please don't hurt me, I swear I am telling you all I know. I don't fix em I just partake. The only people who can truly understand the relationship between rainbows, sunsets, and a little kids smile would appreciate a love shake. But I will promise you this. If you show up at our house you will get one. I've got a suggestion. The next time you have a special relative or friend over just take a walk on the wild side and design your own love shake. Let me know how it turns out.

JeffSjo, If I can make you laugh or smile just for a moment I suppose it was worth taking the chance. At least that is why I came to the GSC kitchen. All the best

We have a 14 year old male and a 3 year old female. We've had a leather recliner and couch for about 5 years and they have yet to bother it. With the exception of when they used to get a little wired and get frisky we have had to scold them for trying to claw the leather. Once that was established we did not seem to have much trouble with them. What might possibly have saved us is the barn type siding we have in the bathroom and family room. They have a favorite spot in each room that they like to sharpen their claws on. I guess they prefered that option. We did have a cloth couch before and it was a battle to keep them off the corners.

There is a little restaurant just up the road from me that has aggravated hotdogs on the menu. They use the big fat red ones, split em long ways, then make slight cuts across the back of them. Then they deep fry them. They even look aggravated. I like them with gravy for breakfast or just as a sandwich. Ah the simple pleasures in life.

I knew I could count on you. Thanks

I bet it is the same one because J.B. is what he went by when he was in Bedford. You might touch base with him to be sure he wants to let me contact him. Great guy, Ask him if he remembers Joe, Paula and Rhonda from Bedford. Be sure and tell him we are not in the Way anymore either. Thanks

I did not mind the subtitles at all because I was already reading between the lines. I don't remember the specific title to the PFAL session but it was the one that taught about the death burial and resurrection. After that session I stood up and clapped. Embarrassing? somewhat. But I could not contain myself. Then when I saw the movie I knew where it was going. I was so overcome with emotion that I sobbed like I would imagine that Peter did. For those who understand WHY Jesus did it and what we have gained because of it can probably forgive Mel for any anomalies in the movie. I recall the song by Stevie Kay Louis..Oh the price He paid. In my eyes I was nothing to no one But in His eyes I reigned as a King I found I was worth all the treasures on earth To God I'm worth everything. I'm standing today where all the winners have lost I'm counting God's blessings their counting their costs I finally won....but it cost God His Son. Oh the price He paid for me.

Ha, I guess technically it is a hand shake if that means that it is made strictly by hand. The whole point was that she takes the time for each individual child to mix the milk and ice cream with a spoon. The most important ingredient is the love she puts into each one. That is her specialty. I know some think it hokey but to our family it is priceless.