satori001

Trust me Vaden, I gave it some thought. Your position that "all sins are the same" is the intellectual convenience of a sociopath. It has nothing to do with that spiritual principle you so awkwardly ape. Of course, that phony position, I am reasonably certain, stops at your own doorstep. If not, you might be equally offended whether someone crushed one of your dainty little shrubs under foot or just burned down your house. With respect to my posts, Rascal really got it right. What makes you evil is that the concept is not lost on you, not in the least. You simply blind yourself to it, just like a pedophile might, or any other kind of serial abuser, Wierwille for instance - all in the name of God? Is that possible? Not only possible, it's the rule. That is what crucified Christ. It's what makes a predator, or in your own case, an accessory, an aider and abettor to predators. Except for your value as a specimen, you have nothing to contribute here, Vaden. You are devoid of sound judgement, barren of compassion. If my "disgraceful" remarks chase you off, I won't lose much sleep over it.

He's a freak. Your vote of confidence should please him, all the same. It's not that I know him. I've only read the most perverse of comparisons, that of an extended bible teaching with the molesting and abuse of young, Christian followers. Those are the words of a sick freak.

Hey Vader. You some kind of child molester? You sound like one. No kidding. Anybody who draws a moral equivalency between teaching the bible fifteen minutes too long and the crimes Wierwille & Martindale (and their sadistic, self-serving toadies) committed against many Way believers has to be some kind of twisted, amoral freak. That's what you sound like. I'd say you are a sick puppy Vader, a Wierwillian monstrosity of the first order. I see no evidence of conscience in you. You are primordial slime, oozing into a pool at the base of the scale of human moral evolution. If I knew where you lived I'd tip the police to search your house and property. And your computer, too. You reek of depravity, even across the internet.

I know. Hard to believe.

Yeah, well I laugh at your pain, bliss. Ambitious, Washington bureaucrats and evil, wealthy plutocrats should sell YOUR butt to 3rd world narco-bio-terrorist slave traders, and put you on the leaky dinghy that trails by a frayed rope behind the Jack's slow boat to China. If only because... not everyone has seen the last episode.

Nice letter, Roy. Maybe one of them will read it, maybe not. As you say, it's not what matters. Then again, by CK's reply (if he even read your letter) it's pretty clear that reading is not the same as understanding. As you say, it's not what matters.

I know man. I know. -- I'll miss Freud and Jung, personally. Let me go on record here by stating that I highly doubt they were the real Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung. Even so, these imposters provided a new and worthwhile perspective, even for infidel/outsiders, a.k.a. , outfidels. And how about Greasespot's ability to draw the celebrities? I wouldn't surprised if Amelia Airheart or Chairman Mao dropped in to Greasespot, just to say they spotted VPW at Burger King last week. I'll be just as skeptical as ever though.

No. Wait. Don't go. You need us! You'll never fully realize your potential if you don't stay. You say, this is "not your world," but you're wrong. It is your world. It IS. You can't leave. Please don't leave. But if you do leave, who needs your kind anyway? We sure don't. We never liked you, Jung. You oughta be banned from Greasespot. You were this close, anyway, I'm sure of it. That's right. Banned baby! How's that make ya feel? You pathetic little jerk. Please, don't go. Think of all the good you could do. All the money you could make. You could be a leader, I can see your potential. Know any good excorcists? Heh heh. I can read minds you know... I heard that.

Suppose the entrance of posters (posers?) "Freud" and "Jung" was somebody's idea of a psychology experiment, and Greasespot was the guinea pig? If so, I don't think it makes their participation any less valid. In some sense, Greasespot is itself a lab, conducting countless experiments consciously or unconsciously, most attempting to answer the question, "What will happen if I reveal what I think, how I feel?" Or some may inquire, "What will they think if... [for example] we introduce Martindale?" Martindale himself studied psychology, and he wasn't too jock-stupid or dogma-distracted to grasp, at least, a few basic principles. For all we know, he might have been one, or both, F & J, testing the waters maybe? Learn from this stuff. Weigh it in the balances of your own power of reason. Consider. Don't just react all the time, as if you have no control over your own mind. Greasespot is a sort of crucible (note Arthur Miller reference, you literati out there), and a safe means to learn more about yourselves than you ever might from TV or your neighbors. When you feel your feelings begin to rise, try to rise above them, now and then. Healing requires discovery. You won't discover a thing if you're always putting your feelings first. You need to think, to consider, to understand, and with all the clarity you can achieve. Your must sometimes require your feelings to follow when they most want to lead. That is inner strength.

It's happened before, but using someone's post to make them the target of an inquisition has mostly been out of bounds, here and at Waydale, and it has nothing to do with censorship. Good people on average just don't do the role of Grand Inquisitor very well, so when a wild hair gets the better of them, this is what happens. Sogwap's story was not so unusual. It has nothing to do with sex, adultery or promiscuity. It has to do with a not-so-unique believer's vulnerability, and the need to be loved and accepted and validated, and with finding the illusion of those things in the false fulfillment of Wierwille's promises, promises he read to her (and us) from the bible. I've only read part of that thread, but the inquisitors need to find a better target for their indignation. She's not the enemy.

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I don't think anyone in his present circle has a thing to fear from Craig. The warnings almost sound silly. I find myself kind of hoping he would go back to school, if he could swing it, and try to get his life together - possibly for the first time. "Underemployment" is probably typical of TWI refugees, thanks to the way they mostly isolated themselves from "the world." If you don't keep current, your "job skills" are undermined by the constant changes in business, culture and technology. You may not even see it, but others will, especially job interviewers. Whatever expectations we may have of Martindale, we may be waiting a long time for that kind of "closure." Pity as I may this image of Craig in his present state, it's quite easy to imagine him as he would have been, had he remained at the helm of TWI. That thought eases a certain, mild discomfort considerably. He is where he needs to be for now. That little book is an indication, to me at least, that he may be in some kind of therapy.

"I don't hate you, I hate your devil spirits." WTH, did Jesus ever say anything like that? I think that was a typical "cop out" excuse from ministry types who couldn't control their anger. In other words, they were just hatin' the devil, that's all. You just got caught in the crossfire. Right. They were imbeciles, WTH. I think you must be smarter than that.

No apology necessary Eagle. I notice you change the operative verb from "may" to "are" in your comparison. (See 1 & 2 above) It reflects a little bias, when you think about it, which is to say, a little reluctance to make an honest comparison. Blacks? I think you have blacks confused with Jews, or is it Nazis with white supremacists? But if you want to compare Farakhan's Nation of Islam to Nazis or white supremacists, it might not be too far of a stretch. If you look at a famous Nazi hunter like Simon Wiesenthal, you won't find a sputtering, goose-stepping buffoon, you'll find a soldier. Did Wiesenthal hate Nazis? Not the same way Craig "hated homos." Whatever "gay" means, there must be a broad spectrum of homosexual behavior not typically called "gay." That is where, beyond the pink, we might find Martindale, if one was to look. Just a hunch.

I've seen and heard that phrase. Not much original about TWI really. To "minister to someone" outside TWI just means providing some kind of comfort or assistance, in a Christian context.

Well then she obviously watched herself on a video monitor.

Freud, my first thought reading your initial post was that this was a hoax. No offense intended. Just seemed unlikely. I hope you'll continue to post your thoughts and impressions. True or false, you have my attention. Regards...

------------- She looked in the mirror while she, uh, pleasured herself. Somehow I don't think Adam would have minded.

What's the problem? Takit isn't an Open. Takit is more of a Gallery, and/or more of a Reading. Room, more of a Room, too. Also.

Remember the childhood puzzles called "What's wrong with this picture?" You'd look at an "ordinary" scene for things that don't make sense, and soon you'd find all kinds of craziness. With a little focused attention, you see there's nothing ordinary about that picture, despite first impressions or appearances from a distance. I wouldn't call him "gay" exactly. I'd call him "twisted." He wasn't just vocally anti-gay. He was way over the top. He may have advocated violence against gays, though in away which couldn't quite be termed incitement. What's his problem, to feel the need to go that far, and in God's name of course? Whatever issues might be boiling beneath the surface, he was a blatant contradiction. How many of his sermons (a.k.a. "teachings") were laced with anger, contempt and even hate toward one group or another? Usually several groups, and he didn't spare individuals either. Yeah, there's "the love of God," "the renewed mind," in manifestation, right? He'd start and end his teachings with lipservice to love and grace, but their chewy caramel centers were always hostile and dark. Dark as hell. It's not much of a leap to think that he and allan w. might saddle up and sneak off to Brokeback Mountain to stem the rose whenever they can get away. All those obvious contradictions usually spell hypocrisy on a deeper level, and then you just look to the things which capture the old boy's attention. Homos! Damn the homos. Damn, damn, damn... homos. -- And then again, now he's a "trainer" at Bally's? Sitting with the guys who finished their workouts in the steam room in his little towel, or stretching out in the jacuzzi (talkin' sports), all those massages and rub downs he gets to give... uh, innocent enough, right? It's therapeutic. But one might ask, what's on his mind? Women? Sure. Right. No doubt.

Martindale isn't effeminate. He carries himself with an understated (okay, overstated), western-style, man's man (hmm) air about him. He seemed, in his past life as a Christian minister, to need to sleep with as many women as he could (as if to prove something?) but actually used women to help him in that quest. Something oddly wrong there, I think. My only question about Loy-Loy - is he Jake or Heath? And is anybody making sure the livestock is safe? http://re2.mm-da.yimg.com/image/1631371507

This post caused me to feel a wave of regret. I've probably written some of the most caustic (and thoroughly well-deserved) posts about Wierwille, the ministry he rode like his prize pony, and its "teachings," among other things.But I've always allowed for the good that people brought with them to New Knoxville. Some went bad, some went home, some went to "the Word" and found shelter in the midst of TWI's corruption. They had their "rock," and not all the sodomy in Sodom could move them. Somehow. They "held fast" to the good. Good for them. So Wierwille's innermost heart may have been black as tar and cold as the dead of winter, but no matter how much he used God and scripture to fill his bed and build his little empire, he projected a public image that good people found inspiring and credible, and it was THEY who were responsible for the good they found there. They responded to the bible, and to one another, and sure, to Wierwille's utterly false but believable image. So where should the real credit go? I get a little impatient with them sometimes for not seeing their part, and for remaining loyal to "Doctor," crediting him when any believer would have to concede (first knowing the facts) that Wierwille was used for good despite his best, or worst, intentions to serve only himself. But I can't hold that same goodness and innocence against them because it makes them resist those facts, and their implications. I'm grateful for that goodness, because it was responsible for any good that I found at TWI too. God knows Wierwille & Company were not. Sure there are some dopes who lurk - those "apologists" who must live to deny every deed dirty Vic ever perpetrated, to resurrect the exalted Vic and perpetuate his "absent Christ" mythology, replacing Christ with the risen Vic, a screwy view unique to Way World, one of many. I don't have much use for them. But the great majority of good-hearted believers who, not for lack of tryin', Vic never hurt and the ministry never screwed (the notorious "lockbox, baby!" code was effective at sweeping @#$@ under the rug) are entitled to remember it the way it was, for them. It is good of them to acknowledge the truth, to "validate" the hurt their brothers and sisters experienced, but like Jack says, some people can't handle the truth. Or maybe they're just not ready. That's not a crime. Life can suck enough in the here and now to keep them pretty busy, and they can't change the past. I can't blame them for not wanting to toss a season of their lives into the trash, and that's how they may feel about it. If they come here, they need to acknowledge the reality of TWI, or they will be challenged on behalf of those who lived that reality. But I'm not inclined to look for a fight when I see some present or past Wayfer on the street who holds fond memories of Wierwille's cult. It took me quite a while put the cult scenario into place, and it wasn't so easy. I don't expect them to do it on my behalf, or anyone else's. They have to live their own lives, and hopefully, live happily. Unless it's TWI or here at Greasespot, I'm sorry to read about any "war zone." I really am. edited again, 8:55 PST

I don't think the picture makes the point very well. It doesn't really offend me but it's so over the top it distracts from the point it's attempting to make, that McChickoen's assertion of VP's "persecution" here is absurd. But crucifiction is so far beyond "persecution" that the picture becomes just as guilty of exaggeration as McChickoen. It therefore fails to make its point effectively, in my opinion. It's clear that McChickoen is "trolling" - but only for attention. This is his validation, such as it is. This is his "cause." Defending his mommy and daddy's religion. I think we keep seeing references to his young age because McChickoen reminds many of us of teenage behavior (not all teenagers, but we all knew one like him), which is babyish, prankish, naive, antagonistic, and intentionally offensive, not to mention so badly argued that most of us would have to really TRY to sound that dumb, if that was our intention.

Not persecuted. Prosecuted. Can't you tell the difference?