satori001

As seen from the back of the house...

CES, leading us to salivation... Feel the love, people. They must be legit because Martindale wouldn't even spit in our direction. dmiller, thanks for sharing.

Exploited.

Translation: Bumpy needs a hug. Line forms to the rear.

Newcomer, assuming what you've asserted is the truth, all you really know is that your descriptions of certain dreams appear to agree with the circumstances of certain subsequent events. The nature and source of those dreams are another matter.

Estimated Prophet? Did you mean to call yourself "esteemed prophet?" "Estimable prophet?" What is an estimated prophet? What are you telling us about yourself? -- You've joined the Greasespot Chorale Internationale singing a familiar refrain, a favorite old chestnut known as, among other things, the "baby & bathwater" routine. Speaking of babies, someone here named "oldiesman" will probably want to have your baby, if it were only possible. Be very thankful it is not. Among the countless seekers who bounce from movement to movement, a few will find a shepherd they like and join the flock (which I'd say is possibly more like a harem). They assign a cosmic, transcendant validity to their artful shepherds, and Shazzam! Consensual mind control - acquiescence and accommodation. They move their mouths, their lips, their tongues - suddenly the "leader" can order a lousy pizza, and it's as if every nuance is animated by the Holy Spirit. This is a form of infatuation. Unhealthy obsession. EP, I can't know the circumstances of your life, but from my corner of the universe, you appear to have found your comfort zone. Cults like CES, dysfunctional meta-tribes (i.e., viral-belief-centered associations ), can't accommodate everyone. The more specialized they are, the more discriminating. Narrowing the faith down to a single and rigorous interpretation of Christian dogma, and to the few personalities authorized to interpret, makes CES' appeal highly selective. A "viral" (contagious) belief system requires a compatibly complicit host. That's why most of us can't join you. We caught the TWI virus, and we recovered. What strengthened our own immune systems has compromised others, like (I suggest) your own. You are a reasonably good host, and most of us are not. Please understand I do not reject Jesus Christ because I reject CES. I reject CES because, though I know much less of them than you must, I know more than enough.

Dan, that is among the best, Greasespot or Waydale.

Is this an updated photo of a certain cult president? No. It's an old photo. This ordinary portrait, of an ordinary man, and his faithful pet, which I'll call "Mr. Fletcher," so exemplifies all the joy and warmth of prophecy coming out of The Spiders & Truth Ministry Inc. we've read about recently, the resemblance is (at least metaphorically, "spiritually") palpable. One important difference - to this writer's (incomplete) knowledge, the man below never certified, as divine revelation, a dream about spiders emerging out of the nose of a church member. After all, he had standards.

Who in TWI used to say his life, or our lives, should be an open book? Was it Lock-Box Louis? That's the only cure for this kind of thing. Power corrupts, but corruption cannot easily exist in the open. They need to open the book(s). Then again, New Year's resolutions are a popular and reliable path to personal repentence. Anybody know if the Spiders & Truth Gang made any midnight resolutions last New Years Eve? Here are a few they might have made: "I will keep my big mouth shut." "I will not conjure up dreams to manipulate my fellow Christians." "I will not use my position and authority as a cult leader to unethically exert undue influence over the sheep that pay my bills." "I will make a public accounting of myself and all the stupid pet tricks that pass for my "leadership" in this bogus operation at the Greasespot Cafe." "I will clear all my wacko dreams with the gypsy fortune teller at the trailer park, who has way more sense than the mickeymouse sanhedrin I call colleagues, and is honest enough to admit she's just in it for the shekels." Just a few ideas...

It's a tempest in a teapot. A made-for-Greasespot drama. Just as we love to see the underdog win, we like to see the overdog lose. Overdogs, in this instance, are the mildly annoying "leaders" of a TWI offshoot. Too many checks and balances stifle an organization. Too few, and it rots from within. They chose too few, apparently. There was no built-in reality check to restrain the loony impulses (like dream interpretation) which TWI utterly supressed. I wonder if CES leadership was psychologically unprepared for the ("spiritual") freedom they gave themselves. In one respect, they became like sheltered kids from a strict home, arriving at college and experiencing liberation for the first time. Naive, impulsive, bad choices were inevitable. Let's face it, to believe your dreams are from God is just asking for trouble. That is fantasy, not faith. But it also served to give them power, and they took advantage of that power, as "leaders" do. I wish CES had risen to become everything its founding idealists dreamed of, but within their dreams the seeds of opportunism were already planted - planted within the less-than-idealistic egotism of the founders. They gave themselves free reign because they, these children of Wierwille, believed they were smarter than Wierwille, and sought to perfect the Wierwille ministry model, which they didn't understand was inherently corrupt. Maybe they didn't get it because they were still a part of it. -- I think most "leaders" recognize that line they cross, when they begin to believe the "ministry" belongs to them. "My ministry serves God." "I am the ministry's greatest servant." "To serve me is to serve God." And so it goes. -- I am sure the CES (or more recently, the Spiders and Truth Fellowship) founders made an effort to get it right, but the rot (of self-serving opportunism) overtook them. They gave themselves too much power over the decision-making process, and integrity, principle, went out the window. How did the opportunism take over? People apprehend virtue, but we feel vice, and serving vice feels nice. Denying vice can be painful. Vice connects with our emotions, which is why doing the right thing often requires resisting what feels good. We may congratulate ourselves for resisting the obvious vices, looking down upon those who do not, but we can easily sneak in the subtle ones. Religious types make a show of denying themselves physical comforts (for a while), but quickly find compensation in the many ego perqs with which followers seem compelled to shower them. I found this interesting. It's probably not the first time it's been introduced with respect to the cults we see around us. Here is a list of the "7 deadly sins." Note the order. The first is rooted in the flesh. The seventh, solidly in the mind. Also notice, they are almost like a rainbow, a spectrum of human frailty. 1 Lust (Latin, luxuria) 2 Gluttony (Latin, gula) 3 Greed/Avarice (Latin, avaritia) 4 Sloth/Laziness (Latin, acedia) 5 Wrath/Anger (Latin, ira) 6 Envy (Latin, invidia) 7 Pride/Hubris (Latin, superbia) (from Wikipedia) Any of these remind you of a leader's behavior? (Sure, they're human frailties, but they manifest differently in leadership, and because they are leadership, inevitably hurt other people.) Most "leaders" can manage to suppress 1-4 early in their careers. The seeds of 5, 6, and 7 are much easier to conceal, growing in the darkness, but over the years become so powerful eventually that they open the door to the others. What I've come to understand from the universal pattern of ecclesiastical disappointments, great and small: our vices may be no more resourceful or creative than our virtues, but they ARE more persistent, more "faithful" to their ends. -- This isn't deja vu. No thanks to TWI, we've been through it, and we see what's happening to CES, and we're not too surprised, and we pretty much know where they're headed. But CES still appears saintly, compared to the vile TWI of Rosalie Rivenbark and her team. CES "abuses" are almost cute by comparison. What makes the whole "CES mess" somewhat amusing is the foolishness of individuals we'd all concede are pretty smart otherwise. Those individuals would happily tell you, in a hundred different ways ("Buy my book!"), just how smart they were, and are. It is satisfying to see the proud brought down a few notches by their folly, and it's good to see the irony, this time around, from the outside looking in.

You people are missing the point. I am the prophet. I have the gift of dreams. My dreams REVEAL your secret sins and craven betrayals, your fellowship with devils, the inner wickedness and depravity of your twisted souls, and your culpability for all manner of injuries and sorrows to God's people. So here's the deal. I do it to you, I got credentials to say it's from God. You do it back to me, call it whatever, it's defamation of my fine character, and I'm gonna sue your guilty behind. Why? Because I'm way too precious to take my own medicine. Bless you all, I love you.

You are hired on the condition that, after I ascend to the Great Beyond, you go on to become a rogue cult leader, in my own fine tradition.

Only when I go out in public, Tom.

Where?

Not yet.

Anybody heard from her? I worry about her.

If those at Wayworld or CES were capable of honesty, and willing to communicate, these caricaturizations would serve no purpose. They are so full of themselves and their self-importance there is no room left to consider any other position. They may as well be dead for all the consideration they could muster. These threads are for those who know them, or maybe follow them, and just haven't stepped back and rubbed their eyes yet, so to speak. Their kids. Their friends. Their associates. Their "followers." -- For anyone who has failed, due to proximity, or circumstances, or "relationships," to put unethical and abusive behaviors in a more rational (real world) context. Sure, there's nothing "real world" about the imagery, in the same way there is nothing necessarily "real world" about a parable. Like the finger that points to the moon, the (effective) metaphor points to the real world. The hyperbole is just to catch their attention, and to have a little fun, too. The "badges of authority" worn by the dysfunctional frauds that lead those organizations often blind those closest to them. No stranger, friend or neighbor would behave this way and evade the light of sound judgement, but a "man of God" gets a free pass because we have agreed to attribute his/her motives to spirituality (to God, actually). "Godly anger." Remember that one, old-timers? That was Way lingo for Vic Wierwille's temper tantrums. Eventually, every Corps snot with a bad attitude learned to call it godly anger too. Who were we to judge? They wore that badge of authority, conferred NOT by God, but by a multitude of suckers who didn't realize where the power really came from.

Ductape, in my latest dream I saw many scorpions, some black, some red, carrying the ensign of the Adversary, 666, and they were crawling out of your butt. Angry golden wasps of fire, trailing green flames and blazing, crimson sparks, and a terrible buzzing, like a decaying carcass covered in flies on a hot summer's day, coming out of your mouth and ears. The noise was awful, but I took a Tylenol before bedtime. Yea, verily, though you are my friend of many years, and you try to be a good persion, I must but speak the truth, in which the prophetic dream (copyright 2007, all rights reserved) reveals and manifests that truth, that EVERY bad thing that happeneth to you (that you made the mistake of talking about), or to those around you, especially believers, is because you have truck with the EVIL one. Yea, you are infested with demons. Big ones, little ones, fat ones, skinny ones... I could go on. Take no offense at my revelation. It wouldn't be spiritual. Remember Who it's from. I can help you. Yea, I am commanded to do so, but only if you but fulfill your end of this little bargain. Just confess before the elders that my dream is so, and we're off to a great start. Verily, should you fail to confess, on the advice of my holy shyster, I must sue you for casting a shadow upon my good name and impeccable reputation. I have "street cred" to protect. Amen. I may sue you anyway, because the shyster and I could use the cash, and it might scare the other sheep into submission. Who needs these headaches? As soon as you confess, we can begin your rehabilitation. This holy chastening in no way means I do not love you as a brother. To suggest otherwise only DEFAMES the purity of my heart, and that impacts the bottom line in this business - say so at your peril. Yea verily, I only serve Him. In that holy purpose, all else is considered collateral damage, unfortunate but unavoidable, the cost of doing business. Amen.

I am a simple, humble prophet. A prophet never lies, and I am a prophet. This is thus the truth. Through me, His Holy Highness and Majesty sayeth (as it were, in a dream, and yea verily I dreameth it) you (though I much love you and wish you to come back to the goodly truth) are vessels of evil. For it is not what proceedeth into his mouth that maketh a man bad, but what proceedeth out of the nose. For instance, spiders. Some people have a hard time with this. They are not spiritual. Take heed, ye vessels of evil. Take heed, fellowshippers with darkness who defend yon vessels of evil. Repent of your wickedness, and we shall all get along just fine, as if nothing ever happened, but a little sin on your part. To summarize: Do not reject the Lord Almighty or his prophet (myself) shall weigh you in His balances and find you wanting. Do not reject the Lord Almighty's prophet either, or persecute me, or demote me, or make fun of me, or you shall hear from my lawyer.

I have since read Elizabeth's entire letter. Didn't want to give the impression it wasn't important. She chose every word very carefully and it deserved a full reading.

Dear Elizabeth, Your letter was powerful and convincing. I hope it has the intended effect, to "awaken." Though individuals have clearly sought to "victimize" you, it is clear to me that, though you've been cruelly hurt, you do not intend to be a victim. This is more than semantic hair-splitting. A victim would ask for "pity." You ask instead for truth. A victim would ask for compensation. You ask instead for reconciliation. A victim would ask for compromise. You ask instead for righteousness, which is to say, what is right. A victim would ask, "Think about me." You ask instead, "Think." In fact, the letter is not about you at all, is it? It is about what is right and what is true, a "wake-up call" to those who have strayed, far and wide in some cases, but most of all to John. John is a luckier man than he could ever imagine. I hope he sees that in time.

I think Dot's post is extremely empathetic, but if the topic is, "Best Wishes to Elizabeth Lynn, loving thoughts to ease your trouble," I think its content will achieve the opposite. An inventory of miseries does not make for best wishes or loving thoughts, and it will only reprise, not ease, her "trouble." Based only on the content of her letter, I doubt Elizabeth would find much of use to herself at Greasespot - just a hunch - but if she should stop by, she shouldn't be led to believe her only contribution is her testimony as victim. Greasespot is not (usually) a "pity party," but she might not know that from reading just a few posts. Maybe she would want to get past her own story and on to... I dunno... helping others still trapped in the Graesers' CES/STFI psychodrama. I'm guessing she's a woman with extraordinary gifts, and would not waste precious time re-living an unfortunate chapter of her past when so many others need healing from their own. This is not criticism of Dot, but a suggestion to one and all - if you find Elizabeth's story similar in any respect to a crucifiction and resurrection, focus on the resurrection, and not just for her benefit, but for yours. The inner strength she has found within herself can point the way to your own.

"Sorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information. The error returned was: Sorry, you do not have permission to start a topic in this forum." ------------------ Are no new topics permitted?

CES has a special link to show their distaste for "gossip." When you get there you find a little poem, written by "author unknown." To better understand these chuckle-heads, I suggest you alter the title, and each occurrance of the word "gossip," to the words "false prophecy." (If you haven't read the CES wack-job "prophesies," so-called, and at least some of the other related crap, I recommend you do.) Before you read their little ditty, consider how CES supposedly banned gossip but unleashed in its place an evil a hundred times worse - and so typically of TWI and its spawn, in the name (and the very breath, they would have you believe) of God. This, I have determined, is because, yea verily, they are unreconstructed, cult-lovin' a-holes. (Gossip = Graeser Operatin' Serious Spirits Imitating Prophecy) From their website: Gossip Poem My name is Gossip. I am a direct descendant of the father of lies. I have no respect for justice. I maim without killing. I break hearts and ruin lives. I am cunning and malicious and I gather strength with age. The more I am quoted, the more I am believed. My victims are helpless. They cannot protect themselves against me because I have no name and no face. To track me down is impossible. The harder you try, the more elusive I become. I am nobody’s friend. Once I tarnish a reputation, it is never the same. I topple governments and wreck marriages. I ruin careers and cause sleepless nights, heartaches, and indigestion. I make innocent people cry in their pillows. I make headlines and headaches. Even my name hisses. I am called Gossip. Before you repeat a story, ask yourself: Is it true? Is it harmless? Is it necessary? If it isn’t, why repeat it? --------------------------- So, what'd you think? Isn't this from the same geniuses who do all the deep, biblical "research?" You betcha. Cults may cause brain damage. Leading a cult absolutely does.

However stable, unstable, or whatever, allowing these wack-jobs to malign his wife, to intrude upon his marriage, is, was, and always will be contemptible.No matter what their problems might have been, he allowed the sanctity of his marriage, and his wife's heart, to be defiled and desecrated by these unspeakable charlatans. End of story.