socks

Simple enough. A lot of what people have to say about their PFAL experience relates to the people they knew at the time and what those people did, typically good things, nice things. I think this is often overlooked and undervalued. Caring people acting on simple beliefs - trying to develop a love for a God they believed was good and loving to them, as a result of what they'd heard in PFAL and experienced with the people they knew. Many of the topics in PFAL itself are arguable, pro and con. But also, many of the basic teachings don't lead a person to do bad things to themselves or others. Speaking in tongues may be something that doesn't stick with some people, but to act on what PFAL itself teaches only leads a person to do so in the privacy of their own brain and if they follow the teaching it's not to any bad ends. If viewed as a waste of time, it's just that - a waste of that person's time but one that's done with good intent and an expecatation that it's potentially a good thing. Having said that I do think PFAL emphasizes some things to make a point, rather than to improve the quality of a person's life and what they really need. 4 Crucified, for instance. That's taught to illustrate "scripture buildup", which is nothing more than a way to view the gospels collectively. It's really no different than having 4 separate accounts and taking them all into consideration. But to hammer on religion and all of the blah blah about money-mongers wanting to make a buck on bible sales, that's petty IMO. It's completely unecessary if the goal is to teach more about the bible. So in parts all through it you have to endure the venting and ranting to hear what's being taught and I think it's wasted time. That's a big area where I think PFAL doesn't cut it - there's too much baggage that goes along with it, too much of VPW declaring this and that and all that he's about. It was interesting at the time, different for some like me. But if teaching from the bible and trying to help people is the goal, you don't need all of that. You only need it if you want to establish yourself in people's minds and build yourself out in people's minds. VPW was certainly in the throes of starting to do that with PFAL. There was a certain charm in PFAL, that here was this guy who was pretty straight laced in the way he presented himself, the suit, tie, rose, all of that, blustering on with gusto about how excited he was about the bible. Taken at that level, I think it could still have that charm for some people but when it's all said and done, the greatest value will come from hearts of the people involved. It could be a lot of different bible classes and teachers, but it will come down to that group of people and how they live and act. If they're hard-hearted and prideful about every jot and slash mark in the teaching it'll stink. IMO.

Oh, you two! Now you're being silly! To be honest, it's no laughing matter, this gun business. Because I have the image - have you ever had a memory of something from your past that happened to you, but for some reason you remember from the view of someone else, as if you're seeing it in memory as if you were actually standing off to the side? Remembering it you see it in your mind's eye from another's view. I'm not sure why that happens, there's probably a name for it. It may be because of the way I've reconstructed the memory of the event over time, not sure. Anyway, I have the image of "CG" at the podium now, after reading WW and JL's exchange, and he's walking up, no - lumbering in that doughboy-that-just-ate sort of stroll, towards the podium and he's doing that little chewy thing with his mouth where the lips look like they're trying to find where they're supposed to be. And when he hits the podium he sort of swishes his jacket back to the right side, and there in living color is...the gun...and then just as everyone's breath catches he...starts dancing around doing a little jig and clapping his hands together and saying "Just kidding! I was just kidding! Ha ha ha ha ha---ah!" and then stops and steps back to the podium, again very solemn and begins intoning... "I speak here tonight, for the dignity of man...." .... and everyone breaks out in laughter and applause and someone says "Let's have some BURGERS!" and amidst a holler of affirmative hoots and backslapping agreement everyone heads out to the Asphalt Terrace, where Ted is set up and singing "Too Many Do-Goods" to roousing accompaniment provided by the 2nd Interim In-Law Corps and there's people skating out on the Way Pond and as the memory slowly fades out the voice of Don Weirwille can be heard saying "No mustard, and I mean...no mustard please!"

The gun. I was there, never saw the gun. I've never talked to anyone there who said they saw ... the gun. And after the meeting where...the gun appeared, no one that I spoke to or saw later was talking about...the gun. I never heard about...the gun...until Waydale and then here. So I dunno... Was there...a gun? I don't know. If someone I knew said that there was, I'd probably believe them. I was back several rows, couple three seats in from the aisle, so my view may have been blocked at key times. I don't really care, but I guess I care enough to add this insightful first hand account of what I didn't see. It seems like an account that has legs, it's certainly been retold enough times. But mostly I'm glad it's over. I doubt I would have stayed if I knew there was brandishing going on. Brandishing's never a good thing.

Amps - I've been experimenting with my 12 AX 7 tubes in my preamp. There's different kinds, I wanted a warmer sound and was talking to the guy in a local store and found one that's in the Fender Twin. I put two into my preamp and it added some nice sound. And they're a relatively cheap mod, think both were 20 bucks all totalled. I agree, tubes are the way to go. My Line 6 Spider is a digital modeller and does a good job, and is very convenient for most things. I'll switch to the preamp and amp setup sometimes which goes through either a little 12 inch speaker cab, or a bassman cab if I need more wind. :) But I don't play any large gigs these days so it's a lot of shlepping and not worth it. Reverb is a highly underated effect. For many years guitarists had that and not much else and did a lot with it.

<insert low moan...> Yuperrz. Hey, Guitar Player has --- Derek Trucks on the cover! Great article. Nice pics of his guitar, slide, and a good writeup. Highly recommended. Gave it to my daughter to check out. Yes, Joe Perry does have the classic sound for rock, I think. So does that guy, Slash, Slice, that guy. His tone is classic Les Paul stuff. I'm sort of a sound junkie. Sounds make nice colors. Uh, yeah man. Most of the time I like to have a full thick kind of sound, be it humbucker or single coil, but I love that unexpected jump you get when tone meets pick and there's nice overtones popping up. It's a distraction I confess. It's difficult to get the complexity in a digital model, but I find that a tad more volume than is needed and the position of the picking hand can add depth to the whole thing. A guy I like a lot tone wise is Johnny A. His tune "Had to Laugh" is a nice tune. He does a cool version of "The Wind Cries Mary" too. He's got a signature model Gibson, like a Les Paul but sometimes he gets a nice Tele kind of sound out of it too. Chas, I'm impressed you play bass guitar by the way. Y'know who's a great bass player, I think, is Shery Crow. First time I saw her strappin' it on, think a Framus, or looked like one, I thought "uh oh" here we go. Don't fail me now, cuz I definitely like Crow's sound and tunes and all. I was impressed at her ability to play, on the mark and do it. She wasn't just wearing it, she was the bass player in her band. I like her guitar players, they do a great job of making that vintage rock sound work in a contemporary way. If that makes sense... :blink: Bass ia great instrument, I love it. Can't really play it all that well, but I love that bottom feel, just diggin' down into it.

I have 3 favorite tones I like to hear. A Fender Telecaster, stock. The bridge pickup, with the treble rolled off a tad. The neck pickup, all treble up and played close to the neck. There's a lot of Tele players, Roy Buchanan's one of my fav's, and Vince Gill. I like a lot of the stuff Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top has done with it. He really gets the most out of the way the pickups frequencies spark and jump at high volume. And a 3rd - a 335, both pickups selected, treble and bass all up. This is similar to a Les Paul sound with humbuckers, to me, at high volume, but a little thicker. I'd probably go with a Les Paul under most circumstance to avoid feedback, but the 335 really has a great smokey sound I love. Ampwise, I look for the speaker setup. Either 2 - 10's or 2 - 12's. 10's are great for single coil pickups, like the Tele's and Strats although most players go to 12's, the ideal speak for a guitar. The 10 doesn't get all the low end, the bass but is a little more initmate sound at high volume. Acoustics? So many, so many.

Welp, I see "chickamumu" got it for 242.49 - not a bad deal! Is it in your home, Chas? :unsure: Was thinkin' about ... Tone. That elusive...thing...Headphone of the gods. I used to get kidded a lot about "tone" by a good friend. I was always fiddling, getting the "tone" right. But what is it, in a guitar? What's "good tone"....I know there's a lot of different definitions, for both electric and acoustic. What's your favorite, to have or to hear?

Ace and the Family Guy Bucky And the Mink coat

Sooooo... Are cigars appropriate? :)

Somebody should buy it! The Seymore Duncon pickup The ash wood body is probably a lighter ash, nice bright tone. Floyd Rose trem, "Blocked", means it only goes down lowering the note when it's pushed down. More stable than a standard set up. .010's are the string gauge, 010 being the gauge of the 1st "E" string. A "light gauge" string set. Looks like a good deal! And it's red! coolchef - coffee filters?

Well, thanks! Glad everyone likes it. Still working on it, the opening melody line and harmony will repeat, with the harmony flipped up to 3rds and 5ths, an octave higher. It's an A-B-C "verse", and I'll proabably do something different with the C section to carry it into the open soloing. You could so almost anything with it, aminor pent, a major, g, c, f, d, dimished stuff, whutever. David Broza - never heard him, but after listening I really like it Chas! Nice stuff, different, moving. He's certainly multi-cultural, very accessible music. I love the mix of middle eastern rhythms with an r and b back beat holding it all down. He seems to pull some of that sound together in some stuff. Being mostly blues and rock based, I like to tweeze the straight minor pentatonic blues sound and work other scales with the same kind of a feel from blues. Not really original, but I would like to find a "sound" that works for me that's blues based and incorporates other stuff I hear. Like, I found a "pakastani sufi rhythm' that kicks and would fit perfectly with some stuff. Anyhooo.... coolchef, mineral oil works fine. I also know a guy who uses a little WD-40 to the same effect. Anything slippery that won't build up, and just a little, from my experience. Once I - don't ask my why - used a q-tip to clearn around the slots. Ended up with little cottony squigs that were really difficult to get rid of. Now I use old t-shirts cut up. Perfect for cleaning, no dust or stuff gets carries along. And cheap! There's another product out there called "Nut Sauce" that is supposed to be a good lubricant. Dunno, never tried it, although the pics show it comes in a cool little applicator. But I've never spent the dough to try it out. Plus, the name, the name. Anyway, I use my own "nut sauce", figuratively speaking. Ck, thsoe are great interviews! Where'd you get them? Nice! Pride and Joy sounds great with Albert King in the break. :) Very nice for a Sunday afternoon, thanks! Ck, thsoe are great interviews! Where'd you get them? Nice! Pride and Joy sounds great with Albert King in the break. smile.gif Very nice for a Sunday afternoon, thanks! Man, my posts are getting munched, separate posts keep showing up in the same post. Oh well, here goes.

I can see why they'd rather settle than go to a court and spiel this bile in front of a prosecuting lawyer and jury of their "peers". (would that mean there'd have to be 2 or 3 double talkers in the jury ) RR lays it wide open on several counts in her deposition - - followers. What exactly is a follower of the Way? - "before you use 'freely avail' again, pleasee answer this - what is it that a follower does that a non-follower doesn't do?" - how does a follower differ from a "member" that other churches have? - what benefits are there to a follower versus a non-follower? - If a person tithes, are they a follower of the Way? - If a person doesn't tithe, can they still be a a follower of the Way and receive all the benefits as if they did? - How does a tithe to the Way differ from a charge or or payment? - What does a person benefit from if they give more than a tithe? And the million dollar questions - - what if a person tithes and freely gives an additional 5 per cent of their income, as you say the bible supports but doesn't give it specifically to the Way but to other charities and causes that are also supported by what you teach....does a person lose any benefits they would otherwise have if they gave it directly to the Way? - would a person have to prove that to you, with receipts or verification of some kind? - if so, why? The answers they mouth today are based on *wink*wink* style answers devised to avoid saying the truth and the facts - "we want you to support the Way International, by giving to us and if you don't give to us we don't consider you qualified to receive the benefits of a member. As a member you can then receive whatever we determine we want to give back to you, if anything at all, by way of products or services. By giving you obey God. By giving to the WAY you obey God. Anything else is non-compliance and disobedience to God and we won't allow membership in the Way to that person". That's what they meant, but they won't say it. All the little ones they're cropping into now don't feel that pressure, yet. The college students and kids get by doing what they want. If you know someone in the "big" there, you get slack. f the Way changes their rules for EVERYone, regardless of their age, location or tenure AND clarify from their pulpit to everyone what all of thie gobbleydook means, in plain language AND follow that up with matching behavior for a few years, that will mean something. Anything else is just talk. Cheap talk. IMO.

Happy Saturday! Messing with a new tune lately, have the first part down, if you want to take a quick listen to a sample. Last week with all the bad weather it seemed appropriate. It's a rock kind of thing, sort of a cruiser. Not sure about the mix, the bass is a little boomy, maybe too strong. Not sure, still messing with it, it will have some open space in the middle for soloing. Black Ice ( These mp3's are still kinda big so it may take a sec to open - there seems to be a hiccup right after they start playing, :blink: seems if you rewind back and start over after it starts it won't do that again).

I'm keeping my eye out, sunesis. If I get a reasonably in shape f-hole like that for about 200, I'll be happy. :) Been messing around with intonation, speaking of "in shape". Changing strings about every 2 weeks now. With the strings the same gauge the intonation doesn't need much adjustment. Both my Fernandes and Fender have long bridge saddles, plenty of room to tweak. The Fender has the standard kind of slotted saddle piece and the Fernandes has small rollers that the string sets is. I always us a tuner and check at the end by ear. Anybody have any tips they use for intonation adjustments on electrics? On the bridge saddles (the one on the body of the guitar) I clean the string and saddle with a little bit of alcohol, then I also use a small, very small amount of lubricant on the metal saddle itself. Slip the string off and brush it with a little silicone based stuff using a lint free cloth. On the headstock nut, I loosen the string and slip it off and brush the string with the same stuff and replace it in the slot and retune. Doing this helps to keep the string moving fluidly thru the slots. Here's a link with a picture of the areas - A Fender Strat These Ferraglides are similar to the ones on my Fender Tele - Saddles Can't find a decent image of the roller saddles, but the're like little collars that allow for some extra smoothness for the string to return to position when the tremelo's used. They probably help, but I think having all the slots the strings rest in cut correctly, clean and slighly lubricated contribute more to that than anything, as if the string binds in those spots, it will get out of tune no matter what.

Hey Jonny, Chas mentioned Derek Trucks. You should check him out if you haven't. Hes got it in his blood. The Zepsters, I always had a bad spot for them, after they visited S.F. Bill Graham produced their concerts here and to read about it later, it was a lot of bad news all the way around. A friend of mine managed for Graham productions in the 90's and did the last Zeppelin tour for them in S.F. Said they were perfect gentlemen, and very subdued compared to their reputations. Course by then Bonham was dead. I guess you get older and everybody takes Tums, y'know? But overall, that quazi-witchcraft vibe Page put out was so corny it was hard to believe anyone took him seriously, but he definitely made his mark. Speaking of auctions, I saw an Airline and a Silvertone go by, f-holes, looked nice, but the Ebay bids went too high for me. Not that high, but I missed the last shot, one went for about 300. Might have been tempted, but they be gone. :(

Chas, oh yeah, those kits look nice. Worth a little more, to be sure! I love your sig by the way. Everytime I unwrap some cookies out of a bag and read on the back "this is not a toy, do not attempt to wear this as a hat or use as a floatation device"....I sigh. Zeppelin - "Whole Lotta Love" sort of says it all. I confess, to some derision I'm sure, I was never a great Page fan. I like his variety, but not his lead playing. But he made a great statement on that one plus the drums are perfect. Again, whosis always sounded a little too beery on the drums for me, but he's great on that song. And Stairway to Heaven, of course, the ultimate head-banger tune. Classic. They did do a couple good ones there, but I'm not all that familiar with the rest of their stuff.

For me, I can't think of a particular "hook" and I'm not sorry I "went in". I'm glad I did as I've posted before at other times. It's difficult to communicate to those who see the Way Ministry and it's many many parts over 30 or so years as a complete cult-scam and the product of a single person out to dupe as many people as he could as long as he could. I don't see it that way. To express that on GS calls to be accused of being a nostalgic fool pining for a nopn-existent silver-lined past that I'm either too simple-minded or ashamed to face. I'm neither. What I am is an independent mind and person who's lived my life the way I chose to, for better or worse. Could I have done better? Well, I'm sure I could have. But I didn't. I did what I did. I've never worked for a company that was all good and all knowing. Course I haven't worked for very many that claimed to be doing God's work. The Way was one. One thing I learned from my many years in the Way, and from a few other experiences, is to be very careful getting involved with other people's vision and goals. Someone else says "I'm sure that (this) is God's will, I'm sure this is what people, me/you, should do". With the Way I took a long hard look at that, and the Way Corps program was a part of that. No one "made" me go in or pressured me, I chose to because it looked like a good thing to get involved in that would help me as well as give me an opportunity to do some work that I would be doing anyway, but in a deeper context. And it was a good thing, for me, at the time. There's no denying that or going back on it. It would be a lie to do so now. What it wasn't was perfect, or everything I'd hoped it could be. But I don't think looking back that any of the other choices I might have made would have been either. They would have had different outcomes to be sure. Better? I don't know. I've said before - the greatest value of the times in the Way was the people. As with some of the worst things I experienced - people. Myself, things I've done that I'm proud of, others not. I believe it's always that way. We have in life what we earn, build, and what we come by from the grace of God. I have some of each. What I believe today is that in the end, there will be only two things, the people I've loved and have been loved by, and the love we shared. I believe that love, in some form, will live forever, in my children's children as they come along. I put that in the highest value, it's everything to me, what I work for and build for. I believe in an eternity to come and while I can't really know what it will be, I lean to the side that it will be the best of what I've done in this life. To me, it makes sense that life continues and I do pray that while I may not be back this way again when this life's over, the future will have a place for me, for all of us. For me, there's no "do-over". I live the life I have right now, as I did then. Regrets? Sure, things I'd change, sure. But the major choices I've made I don't know that I'd try to reshuffle the deck, if it meant I might not have what I have today - a very sound and happy life, productive, a loving family I'm proud to have raised. Some of it in spite of the past but some of it very much due to what I've done, learned and been. I don't have as many guitars as I'd like or as much land, but life's not over yet. :) For me, it's not complicated, but that's me speaking for me.

Click that li'l bad boy for my choice...

Well, ring that bell, y'r'all welcome. ex10, unfortunately it wasn't uncommon, if you were around long enough you heard or observed or experienced it. Looking back, geez. The people doing this kind of stuff were so young, so immature and so much in their own growth curve - it's no wonder. I know some people did their best, weren't being deliberately malicious or greedy. But I maintain that the growth was just too fast - people were put into sink-or-swim situations too often and when they sank it wasn't always just them going down. Figure the Way went from a little farm-based church with a hundred or so members, tops to having 3 campuses, all in less then 10 years. You look at all the people that went in the Way Corps, got married and got divorced. Everybody's part of a ministry that's big on "family". One of the PFAL benefits - "harmony in the home". You'd think there'd be more harmony and warm fuzzies than a DVD of Ozzie and Harriet reruns. But the large percentage of irreconcilable conflicts says something, and it isn't the horsewash about one "believing" and one "not". The overall environment of the Way Corps community wasn't conducive to doing what men and women do everywhere when they get married and what the Way taught even from the bible - -leave home -start their own -build their futures together. No, the Way Corps was like having 2,000 of your best friends for in-laws. People had one "coordinator" after another in their stuff. Sometimes it took a lot of effort to just say "go-aWAY" and leave us alone. Way Leaders were the nosiest dammed people in the world, always wanted to get together with everyone and "help". Somebody's got too much time on their hands, y'know? A "committment" to a lifetime of service is one thing. To - commit time and resources to "prepare" for that is another. That's a literal committment as you're putting forth some effort, some life, to become what you have in your heart. What that's eventually going to be is where we're at now, me anyway. Well, my soap box is sagging. My next book will address a lot of this, so order now! It's going to be titled "How To Make a Million Helping Me Make A Billion!" It's sure to thrill, so watch for it!

Very cool Dan. I've got an old Paia catalogue from a while back, little paper one, that had some of their kits in it. The Thermin looked intriguing. It would be nice to hear the results! I almost got one of their preamps. Don't really need it now but it seemed like a cool idea and dirt cheap. I've read good reviews of the results from their stuff. That would be a good name for a band JL ! made something once that was supposed to be a hammer dulcimer but turned out to be just hammered! The basic sound was there, strung up with low strings and using little cheap tuners. It was fun!

SWEET! Nice stuff. He's got the Sound alright. Morning rain...keeps on falling... Love the ... flutes? are they, on that.... Plus the man had the 'do. Great player. I-Dan, did you finish it originally? I wonder how it would like sanded and oiled? I like the cutaways, the "horns". Very well balanced. I've been thinking for several years - no action yet - to get one of these inexpensive kits for a Telecaster and work on it. I think it would be fun. They sell for about 125 bucks, plus materials. Wouldn't be the greatest guitar in the world, but could be worked on and do some nice things with it. Still thinking.....

Who's your daddy now? This isn't a war zone. This is a mild tussle of the hair. War Zones on Greasespot - let's not have one, puleez! They're not pretty. Everyone's been fairly civil so far, But still - Am I the only one who thinks the initial question is just...stupid? Who's the worst leader - Craig Martindale or the...Pope...? I can't get a head of steam behind it. Maybe that's why this thread can't stay on topic. The poll question just begs to take a beating. Plus....Nobody really cares. But I confess there's something about the mind that would produce it that begs to be...examined. I just can't be mean to children so I'll stop. I know, it's age-bias. Prejudiced. But I'm old school. I've got kids and I've tried to raise them to be careful and know their limitations while stretching their boundaries. Maybe that's what's happening here. Dunno.

...preparation for a lifetime of Christian service... When I went in there was no Emporia, Rome City, Gunnison, or Tinny. No Corps Chalet, no church in New Bremen, house in Sidney, none of that. In fact, I don't think I was ever in the "Sidney House" while I was on staff through 1980. Never interested me. All of these properties were able to be developed because of the work the Way members did and most of them were people who attended the Corps program. When I went in I was interested in being part of something that was new and undeveloped. There was room to grow both individually and with the Way. PFAL on film was only a year old when I first saw it. Needless to say the future was bright with promise. Not with greed. Wanting to build something and contribute to worthy goals isn't bad. Thinking you have something good, bible teaching, and offering that to people isn't bad. Wanting to be involved in helping other people isn't bad. Preparation for a lifetime of service as it's being quoted here was never an ironclad committment to work for and/or with the Way forever when I went in. Sure, everyone that went in wanted to be involved in that, with the Way for the most part. That's why I wanted to go there - I chose the Way and they were glad to have people at that time at least. There's no question that it got balled up pretty quick. And VPW was at the center of it. He wanted everyone to be committed to the Way, the place that "taught you the Word" as it hadn't been known, etc. etc. In a way he was like the party host from hell - you can go to the party, just don't try to leave early, or ever. It's the best party in the world, what's the matter with you, why would you ever want to go anywhere else? Sit down, have some more chips. Navigating your own life and plans was a challenge. ex10th's experience isn't unique. Many people got caught up in the momentum of other people's plans and goals. Where it gets sticky is that involvement in the Way became a point of doctrine. That things like - being in fellowship and harmony with God being blessed and happy in life having a true more than abundant life, ie John 10:10 prospering financially having health having your prayers answered having a sucssessful family life in fact, all the things that the PFAL class advertised a knowledge of the bible in application would produce - were contingent ALSO on staying in fellowship with the Way. If you left the Way's fellowship, later known as the "household" you'd lose or drastically reduce your odds of having the kind of life that you'd learned GOD provided, in PFAL teachings. The idea of conflict wasn't built so much on the "committment" for a lifetime to the Way but rather on the greater committment to the person's faith. If that faith was taught as including these other things, like never leaving the Way or doing what someone tells you to do - you could end up in a bad situation. One starts to rely on the other. You WANT to do the right thing, you DON'T want to do bad things, and you ARE being told that such and such a thing is the "right" thing to do if you want to maintain your faith and fellowship with God. For a group like the Way, where TEACHING is constant and all pervasive, that makes for a very volatile situation. So the people who suffered the worst were the ones willing to give the most. If you really were excited about the bible, Christianity, spreading "the Word" in a way that would allow you to be closely involved in peoples lives and you chose to have the Corps training be your route to learning how to better do that - you got hit eventually with a big fat attitude - that if you sought to expand your resources and capacity outside of WayWorld, you would be treated differently, as less "committed", and ultimately less "blessed", basically a liability. Many of the first corps groups were never "big" leaders in the Way, they weren't cut out for that and they didn't want to go that route in some cases. A lifetime of service so-called didn't mandate that you had to do that. But it was very claustrophobic for us after awhile. I felt that indeed, some good preparation was had by the Corps training for the things I would do later in life. But getting the preparation is pre-choice. Choices in life have to be made and change is inevitable. I do know what a lifetime committment is though and how it shakes out. I've been married to the same woman for 35 years. When we made that vow to each other, it was for life. My committment to the Way always had a qualification - I never would stick with them if I felt they were wrong in what they taught or did, if they left the values that I personally held or sought out goals different than mine. As the years rolled on those kinds of things started to stack up. We parted ways. Way Corps committment is certainly a lifetime committment, not to the Way but to the goals I had. The "program" was me, my life, what I was choosing to do. For me the most valuable thing was always the people, those who I knew and worked with. Some of the things I was trying to do then have been realized, some have changed, some dropped. The essence of what I was seeking then has changed and grown as I have too. I don't think that's abnormal or unnatural.

Oh yes. Where do I sign up?

Sorry, I don't get it, pond. Won't be the first time. twi is the same it has always been . with less people maybe. no they do not need to address your problems with what went wrong. and they do not have to. Im glad it is still going strong in new knoxville and I do wish them the best. God be glorified within the prayers and love of those who serve and love Jesus Christ. I am not going to a service, Im now paranid of "services" because of my involvement in twi. ironic isnt it? I have had several oppurtunities to "go back" and I have been marked and avoided . they do not hold grudges against all that happened in fact they really do not want to talk about the "past" alot Just doesn't make sense, unless I'm misunderstanding you. TWI's the same as it's alway been, just smaller......and Your involvement in TWI has made you paranoide of going to "services". Sooooo, where's the good in that? If it's the same ministry as the ministry made you paranoid about ever participating in a church service again, it wan't very good, was it? What am I missing? I would completely disagree that the Way doesn't need to address problems with "what went wrong". Of course they don't have to and they're obviously not going to. But - if something went wrong, wouldn't it make sense to try to determine what it was and learn from it? It would be in their own best interests to do so. That would be better than turning a blind eye to it. Contrary to some opinion, some of us who participate in discussing what "went wrong" with the Way do so in the hope that those still in the Way might one day take a second or third look at who they are and what they've done and are doing and learn from it. That would be much better than simply leaving them to wallow in their failure. And yes, compared to the dynamic ministry it once was, they're a failure, a burnt out ember of a fire that once blazed. The Way ignores it. That's just plain stupid IMO. But it's their stupidity, not mine. Of course they don't worry about it - it's called a "seared conscience", one burned over so many times the scar tissue gets so tough it doesn't feel anything anymore. Some people think scars look cool. Getting them isn't.