Seth R.

I'd thought I'd add my song lyrics I've done over the years as a jump start for Way Production numbers.

"Still Way Brained After All These Years"

(In the style of Paul Simon's Still Crazy After All These Years.)

I met my old Twig coordinator on the street last night.

He seemed to glad to see me, I just smiled.

And we talked about some old times and we drank our selves some beer.

Still Way-brained after all these years.

Oh, still way-brained after all these years.

I'm not the kind of man who tends to spiritualize.

I seem to lean on old biblical ways.

And I ain't no fool for church groups that poison my peers.

Still Way-brained after all these years.

Oh, Still Way-brained after all these years.

Four in the morning, kept up praying.

Speak in tongues my life a--way.

I'll never worry why should I?

He's coming back one day.

Now I set up my living room and I string the chairs.

I need to make some coffee for the twig.

But it better not be bitter, or my crown of life disappears.

Still Way-brained after all these years.

oh, Still Waybrained....

still way brained....

Still Way-brained after all these years.

I have more somewhere,

Seth

Some years back, I watched a movie by that title, the main character Melvin Udall played by Jack Nicholson, was someone I identified with in a rough way.

He was agitated, irritable, mean, nasty, obsessive, compulsive, reclusive, phobic, and unhappy. Although successful in his profession which required some human interaction, he only tolerated it so long as it was in the pursuit of fulfilling his basic instincts for survival, and security the social instinct was just an annoying distraction for him.

In the wake of his path of self-centered destruction, he began to awaken to the fact that maybe there was help, and maybe, just maybe the cure wasn't worse then the disease. The female protagonist of the story Carol Connelly played by Helen Hunt (who in my heart I would die for) was a powerful reason for Melvin (Jack) to begin to seek help. In the process of his awakening he began seeing how rewarding facing the problems he has, is. Although the movie ends before we see Melvin's full transformation we do see the direction he is headed, and it's hopeful. The key scene and quote of the movie that really impacted me was when Melvin is talking to Carol, and he is telling her he knows he has a problem and that his shrink said in 60% of the cases a pill fixes it. Melvin hates pills, but he tells her he started taking them because, "You make me want to be a better man."

In my life I've never ever been with a woman I cared about it just never developed into something serious, because I was a lot like Melvin scared to death, and frozen in fear 60% of the time the other 40% I was sleeping or drunk. There have been women in my life who have made me want to be a better man. Unfortunately they haven't stayed around to see the transformation, and I'd get discouraged and stop doing what was healthy for me. This time it's different I want to do it for me.

I started taking an anti anxiety pill, which is helping, I hope it helps me want to be a better man. So far so good...

roll the credits... ;)

Seth

I wasn't sure if this should go in "Just Plain Silly," but here it is:

Funny Nun

George

Good stuff I laughed a couple times. :o

Seth

On Sept 7th, according to some link that I read hereabouts, Vic jr is starting his own "Sowers" program (which happens to have the same way corps objectives) in the state of Mississipi!

any thoughts on the subject?

Um, OK, I give him one for wanting to carry on a legacy, but to what end? Who are his supporters? Does he even care what his grandfather was really all about? Seems ambitious, idealistic and adventurous maybe his goal is to raise an army to take back the family farm?

Seth

I think I know who put this site up, though it is kinda weird, what with no home page or identification or credits of any kind.

Ya gotta wonder how much traffic there will be to it after a couple of days. Lordy, talk about old news...

It just looks like the persons personal mashup of teachings they did or liked and put it on their personal webspace, not caring if people see it. I would have done something like that when I was in TWI, but Al Gore hadn't invented the Inflammation Soup or Hiway at the time, all we had was FIDONET and a 2400 baud modem.

Seth

Rocky is probably right, so I suggest hiring some local derelict who can sing (and promise them a 12-pack of their favorite beer), to sing the words from a pay telephone from a corner somewhere!

The local morning talk radio station might like the lyrics to have one of their voice talents do the song and bust on this guy, they love that stuff makes for good radio.

Seth

That's right I'm fed up and I'm not going to take it anymore.

So I'm running for President of the United States of America.

Vote Rosen in '08!

Seth

Hi Jim,

Good question, I would have stayed an Atheist instead of being guilt tripped into thinking I started my Mother on a spiritual journey to find God. I wouldn't have become involved with people of questionable motives and erroneous dogmatic ideas about the origins and purpose of life. I would have had much more solid sanity in my life and been much less spooky for 15 years or so of it.

I wouldn't know anything about mind control and high demand abusive groups or be able to identify one and the type of people in them. I wouldn't be able to help my friends who are being approached by cults now, by providing sane and logical information about why the group recruiting them is high demand and abusive.

I wouldn't have the company of you wonderful people who are all at various stages of emotional growth, some growing away from the cult mind set others wallowing in it and still others promoting it.

So for better or worse I wouldn't change a thing, accept to have the guts to kick some ballz before I left.

Seth

Some of my ex-twi friends are starting to get those "out of the blue" phone calls from twi followers....... those ice-breaker calls to just say "hi." Yeah, right.

BUT.......it doesn't take long before the conversation is steered to, "You oughta come back to fellowship...... or, Things are really happening now -- things have changed.........or, You're missing out -- it's really great again."

How can things in twi have so changed...........WHEN THE OLD GUARD IS STILL THE SAME..??

Oh, hell no! I'd have to start drinking again if I went back to TWI, and that is not happening. I'd rather roll around in a bed of hot coals then attend another TWI fellowship.

Seth

Wasn't there a photo here at one time of the TWI Research Library?

I can't seem to find it now.

Was this the Research Library?

Anybody remember that one?

First of all, an apology to anyone who suffered from migraines and that I suspected had a devil spirit. I was young and stupid.

Secondly, it was a big surprise to find out that in my old age, I could get a migraine headache. All I have to do is eat more than a little bit of cheese or more than a little bit of chocolate, or drink too much port wine. Hmm, wonder how the devil spirit gets in?

If that's true I was possessed most of my WOW year and much of my young adult life.

I do believe migraines are triggered by extremes of anything, and allergies. I'm happy I know how to balance my diet and I try to avoid bad cheap cologne, it seems the more expensive colognes don't give me a headache. Spearmint gives me a migraine as does stress, I think the house I grew up in had a furnace leak and carbon monoxide was always in the air, I had less migraines when the windows were open.

Seth

Sex

Reuters is reporting that scientists in Israel are preparing the approximately 9,000 fragments to be available on the internet for anyone to view.

This should be an exciting time for researchers in the field to access to documents that are currently only available to a few because of their fragile condition.

I'm reporting this because it interests me to find out what folks will see in these documents.

Here's a handy Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080827/wr_nm/israel_scrolls_dc

Seth

Hi folks,

Hoping for a mild winter, but even if it is fuel oil is way to high to ignore. Now if you own an industrial shop or warehouse I could sell you a waste oil heater that burns used engine oil, hydraulic fluid, even dot 3 brake fluid. It's a great thing for automotive shops and places that do a lot of oil changes. However we cannot sell these for use in homes.

Something we don't sell but I'm interested in is wood pellet burning furnaces and boilers. Depending on the climate and the type of source wood used for the pellets you can see savings of up to 50% over oil, and a little less for propane and a little less for natural gas. A multi fuel furnace can burn grains as well, corn being the highest BTU density.

There is a whole industry growing up just for the delivery of pellet fuel, so instead of going to home depot or lowes to get 40 lb bags of pellets you can have it delivered pre bagged on a pallet, or in a 1 ton sack.

It takes some attention for this type of heating system, but the offset in savings seems to be worth it, the two things you need to do is keep the hopper full and empty the ash. If you empty the ash every time you fill the hopper then it's not that bad.

I'm curious how bamboo would do in a pellet furnace, the stuff grows like a weed and is a very dense woody stalk.

Seth

I am happy for him and wish him and twi best wishes ... this is America and folks have a right to choose their own religious group. Thank God for freedom of choice and freedom of religion.

Hi Oldiesman,

Is there an assumption that he had a choice?

Is this a religion we are talking about?

I think freedom of choice implies that the group you are choosing hasn't already targeted and chosen you. Making all answers perfect, orchestrating every move, timing every play, anticipating each question and concern, catering to my every desire. You have to bait the hook to suit the fish, and TWI loves landing up and coming football players. There are TWI youth actively involved in pursuing these college kids, and in a transitional time like now where there is an unpopular war and young people are looking for answers groups like TWI thrive.

I mean there is no choice for a guy like me full of hormones idealistic and wanting to make a difference in the world, when a group of people my age, come and surround me with love and have conspired to whip some Jesus on me, especially if there are some hot young thangs in the mix. Believe me there are hot young thangs in the mix.

So my argument in this case is this, choice? No. Religion? Definitely not.

Seth

I do know for sure it is a taped class and there are multiple teachers.

Really? Multiple teachers? No more "The Teacher" or "The MOG" wow, that's a step away from the cult of personality that TWI clearly was. This may be an even more sinister force to deal with, if it doesn't crumble from lack of a central driving force.

What did they do divide up the teaching duties among the regional leaders, so that people can have someone local to identify with and therefore bond to those in their region? Very interesting new tactics kind of like the Greek myth of Hydra there is no one central head to kill the whole beast.

I would be interesting to see what they have come up with.

Seth

I'm sure Joyce Meyer is a nice lady, but just because it's a witty rhyme doesn't make it true.

Seth

Have you seen this?

Hey Belle,

Thanks for the link and keeping us informed.

Seth

I'm opposed to an inner circle for one reason, it looks on the surface like elitism. I'm not saying it's not a good idea for the purposes you are proposing, but I can see more potential for harm then good.

Why not an anonymous Wiki instead?

What about that Paw would you think about adding an anonymous Wiki to Grease Spot?

Seth

I knew Rico, he was the WOW Program Director the year I went WOW, I had to deal with him several times on the phone and other wise.

Here's how I feel about him, I feel he is just a straight up filthy liar. I thought his wife was cute though.

I also felt Rico was a pimp for LCM Don and Howard picking all the hot tail from the WOW field for them to pillage, this is just how I feel, there may be no basis in fact for any of this.

Any way that felt good to get off my chest.

Seth

No question - P.T. Barnum...

Bingo!

Ditto!

Boo-yaa!

Shazzam!

That's right!

In other words I totally agree! For V.P. Wierwille a sucker was born every minute. I mean come on, the carnival barker mannerisms, the legendary stories, the blow off, and drum roll please... A Big Top Tent in the middle of a corn field! LOL! Oh, yeah that has P.T. Barnum written all over it.

Seth

My version of the "changed" film.

http://www.slide.com/r/DvCByIDJ6T859C-tg0p...p;view=original

Could you add me to your friends on Myspace I'm http://www.myspace.com/aeroseth2k

Thanks see ya!

Seth

Hi Rascal,

If others testimony are true (which I believe they are) then it seems the leaders were doing something else in the "gap" while the rest of us stood in the C-r.a-p. :)

Seth

You know VPW lived a rough life, not a clean or a healthy one, he drank, he smoked, he made time with strange women which means he didn't get enough sleep. All those are factors for his ill health.

I enjoy watching great speakers on a web site called www.ted.com and there they have a minister who was a contemporary of VPW, Billy Graham. Now I'm not really interested in Mr. Graham's theology but I wanted to see what a man who devoted his life to a God he loves had to say to a group of enlightened people at the TED conference. Something surprised me about Billy, he was 79 when hey gave the talk in 1998 and as lucid and animated as VPW in his early 60's.

You could tell Billy just lived a clean life, whether you want to attribute this to his faith or just the discipline to be healthy it showed.

I doubt if VPW even had such a will to live if his lifestyle would have allowed him to live much past 70 anyway, certainly not in any quality of life, and for damn sure not like Billy Graham.

I'll include the video for those interested.

Seth

I've recently read on another thread where a poster that I feel a lot of respect for said very succinctly that she felt shame at realizing that in times past she promoted the TWI and even defended top leadership as Wierwille, Martindale, and Geer...etc.

I have to say that this is not an easy thing to deal with.

Personally, I believe that God Himself worked in and blessed believers that I knew.

I am now convinced that these guys I've already mentioned used the ministry to satisfy there own lusts and preyed on women in a most despicable and predatory manner. And on top of that I believe that TWI became predatory and despicably manipulative in most if not all respects. Not to mention that they must be COMPLETELY UNHINGED if they think that they can stand for God and/ or the truth without dealing with their past honestly in front of everyone.

To me, it's just a simple question of getting the specifics right. I've heard of folks who after being involved in the sexual predation have admitted to their part in it, have turned, and even tried to help those who were used in such a despicable fashion. I hold these folks in high esteem for being able to face their past actions honestly before God and people and prove that they are sorry and have had a change of heart.

But as for me, I still deal with some strong emotions when I think of how I promoted this TWI sesspool, and I have no desire to be taken in again. As far as DIRECT INVOLVEMENT goes, I'm thankful that I am blameless, but before God I know that in the old days ONE PERSON tried to tell me the truth as I see it now, and I blew her off. Thinking about this can still move me to tears, (SNIFFLE) and shame. She was looking for help, and I didn't help. NOW I JUST DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HER.

Can anyone else relate?

P.S. If any of you think that what you think of as healing will help me feel better, thank you, but save your breath. If I owe anyone an explanation it's that one woman or the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Until the day that I answer for it I don't really want your comfort.

Hi JeffSjo,

It's probably one of the funnier titles for a thread, as such humor is a great way to face some of these pressing concepts. What you have outlined is one of the more honest attempts to come to grips with the "cesspool" of TWI doctrine and practice. Certainly it is painful to face facts that we were all "Tools" in one way or another, leaders from afar promising answers they never intended to answer. We trusted these elders and hoped that one day our enlightenment would come, their answer was take the class, or go on an advance, or attend the ROA, or go WOW, or go Corps, or goto a family camp, or advanced class, or university of life, or the way college program. Use any of the programs of TWI to build that belief and answer those questions, did it work? Were we just fooling ourselves?

My answer today is for me is I was a fool and believed the TWI propaganda for longer then I was involved. I was introduced to TWI around 1980'ish I believed the lie from the start, because it felt so good. I was given the Blue book by my Mom in 1984'ish I read it with a "I don't get it" guilt trip, so I read it more, the more I read it the more I thought I understood. The Camera analogy being one of the most childish and stupid yarns VPW ever spun. But I kept at it and after seeing things (I wanted to see) happen I decided God had called me, (it's hard to recognize psychosis when you are in the middle of it) so by 1987 I saved enough money to fly to Eureka Ca. We held a "miracle class" at Sky Wood's house, it was a miracle because they never had enough to run a class in Eureka for 10 years or something. Every freak and nut case within 50 miles showed up at that class, looking back now I should have packed my bags and headed back to New Jersey after the first session. I stuck around TWI until I was asked by Frank Pavlicka (spell?) to not come back to fellowship until I got my stuff together, that was about November 1994 I left Newport News Va. in December '94.

I date my belief in TWI doctrine from about 1980'ish and I date my TWI involvement from the time I moved to Eureka, Late August 1987 to the Dec 1994 about 7 years, but it didn't end my belief in TWI's doctrine, for that it took until May of 2000. So I guess my belief in TWI's doctrine was about 20 years, wow I just realized that, 20 years of my life spent wasted on chasing a lie. It's no wonder many people here resist when confronted with the truth, they are afraid to face the possibility that all the time they invested was for naught, at least when it comes to TWI's doctrine.

So as far as how you feel about one person you didn't help. I understand, I was part of a super successful WOW team in '92-'93 in Ft. Myers Fla. we ran more classes then any other on the field that year. It's sickening to me to think of how many lives we screwed up by that. I want to contact them all and make my amends but I threw out all my records from TWI long ago and I can't remember who lived where or what their names are. Maybe Mark S. my family and team coordinator still has those records but I doubt he'd be willing to allow me to have a copy.

Thanks for the post and I hope I didn't derail the thread.

Seth