Seth R.

Seth,

I should have said if you are thirsty all the time that is a sign of elevated blood glucose. Also if you can't eat or have no appetite. So I misspoke myself, sorry. Occasional blurry vision is also a sign of elevated glucose.

Hopefully you just have a bug. There are some nasty ones going around right now.

Anyway you are in my prayers.

If you do have diabetes, there are a kazillion resources out there to help - including me.

WG

I gave my Doc enough info she's a smart cookie, she is thinking about diabetes along with what else it could be.

on friday I go for a neck MRI, oh joy more contrast.

Seth

I'm feeling better, thanks everyone, it'll be a bit before labs come back.

Seth

Hey Waysider, I'd love to see this as a whole separate topic. Good stuff my friend.

Seth

When one speaks in tongues, it actually triggers changes in brain wave activity.

This has been demonstrated scientifically in controlled laboratory settings.

Here is one sample reference, though there are many if one is inclined to search for them.

http://seedmagazine.com/news/2006/11/brain..._speaking_i.php

In essence, when one speaks in tongues, the brain temporarily suspends the activity that is needed to maintain a sense of self control and objective, critical thinking. It facilitates the process of self delusion. Is it any wonder VPW was so adamant that we SIT much in our private prayers? The more you SIT, the less time you will spend in rational thought. Yep, keep speaking in tongues, kids. That way you wont think to peek behind the curtain and see the reality of the situation.

In addition, Wierwille also taught in the Advanced Class that SIT daily was an absolute necessity for receiving revelation.

(Page 10 of the AC syllabus for anyone interested.)

Was there anyone amongst us who did NOT want to receive revelation?

Yet, Wierwille cited(don't remember which class) an example of a man who supposedly was able to operate revelation merely by his intense ability to operate the so-called "law" of believing. No evidence was given that the man had EVER spoken in tongues. Of course, the incident itself may well have been one of VPW's little "stowries" that he invented to try to prove "believing" works.

I don't think Wierwille knew much about the scientific aspect of it but I do think that at some point he realized (perhaps on a subconscious level) he could exercise control over our critical thinking and our behavior as it related to serving his agenda by insisting we MUST speak in tongues much.

Go to the ER

I'm going back tomorrow. If it is diabetes I'm going log a formal complaint with the hospital director and demand a formal apology from one of the Dr. who refused to allow me to see a nurse. Maybe I'll ask for his job, with health care practitioners like that who needs diseases?

I lost my cool and punched the wall, they had security tail me for a while. They wouldn't even check my vitals until I got the hospital administrator involved, twice!

Seth

Are you thirsty? Can you eat normally?

If you answered "no" to either of those questions, get your blood glucose checked NOW! I suffered from several of the symptoms you described as a diabetic before I was diagnosed.

WG

Thanks, I'll ask them to do that tomorrow. they scheduled my appointment for tomorrow, jerks. They wouldn't even take my vitals until seeing the patient advocate twice.

Seth

Every inch of my body is in pain or itches, I'm chronicly fatigued, my ears ring, I have labored breathing, neuropathy. On top of that I am extremely irritable, My plan right now is to goto the VA hospital in Philly.

Seth

Oakspear and everyone I'll offer a couple quotes from one of my hero's, Carl Sagan:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." from his book Cosmos (1980)

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time someting like that happened in politics or religion."

Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP Keynote Address

US astronomer & popularizer of astronomy (1934 - 1996)

Seth

Paw - couldn't resist - maybe you could go into competition with this guy - $40 (USD) a year and toss in a green card to boot...this is almost too funny for words. Can't wait to see what Groucho and DWBH think of it.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,363471,00.html

This is a real problem, just adding to the paranoia of a non-event, there is no Jesus to come back it's a myth. What this site will do is make these people rich and then the can lobby against Atheists and other non-christians and then elect some Nero-type who will push the button.

These idiots who wrote the left behind series are worst kind of fools, they are making big bucks on a myth told as reality and writing fictional accounts about mythic fables. They are writing lies about lies that are sold as truth. The Bible is myth from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 to write a fiction based on myth is nothing new, that's what the Gospels are and Acts, and the Epistles and the rest of the NT, bunk!

It's scary to think that if even 25 million Christians sign up for this "service" they will provide $1Billion in cash flow for this guy, that's a drop in the bucket in terms of the worldwide population that calls themselves Christian. This is not the kind of money we need these fanatics to have, they need to stay poor in their little church groups.

Next thing you know someone will start a Rebuild the Temple fund... maybe I'll do it, I'll rebuild the temple and ask the question, does it fit with your theology that a former Born-again Christian now Atheist would be the Anti-Christ who rebuilds the temple?

Seth

Slight modification to make the rhythm work for a limerick...thanks Seth...

There once was a cult called the way

Who kicked out all they said were gay

Suspicion’s OK

If I say you’re gay

Pointed finger is my spiritual say

So on a long hot Sunday night

With make up and high brilliant light

MOG points at his wood

If like this you should

You’ll be off this corn field tonight

Sweet, thanks, LOL that was funny.

Seth

There once was a cult called the way.

Which kicked everyone out that was gay.

Told us a healthy spiritual suspicion was ok,

to point the finger at a person and say your gay.

So on a sweet sunday night under the pancake

make-up and lights the MOG said with delight.

"If you are a wimp-foot fag, or god damned homo-

sympathizer I'll "escort" you off the property tonight!"

If any today was accused of being gay while

in the way please share your pain with us today.

Seth

Poet laureate I am not.

It's all the fault of Bush and the greedy oil companies. Obama seeks Jovian hope and change

I forget who and where but it might have been on TED.com or NOVA that I watched a talk given by a professor of meteorology.

He was studying Jupiter, and noticed that the jetstreams and the storm systems on that planet seemed to mirror our own.

He looked at the latitudes in scale to earths and it seemed to predict where, when and the magnitude of the storms we have.

I never looked into it myself but someone with an interest in weather might like to.

Seth

In Brazil, India, China and the more remote regions of Africa and Mexico they are seeing the signs miracles and wonders that are promised to us in the Bible, but not here. We are too smart to believe in that kind of stuff.

There is, though, evidence outside the book, if you would be willing to look for it. Outside of spending the $2800 to hook up with Randy Clark and going on one of his mission trips, you could just study the historians; people like Josephus. These are people who did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, yet confirm the miracles that the Apostles did.

I can't speak to the miracles in other countries because I've never been present to see them, neither can I speak to your broken arm being healed.

As far as people being to smart to believe in that kind of stuff, well boy howdy! You betcha! I'd love to be accused of being to smart to believe in something I can't prove or substantiate.

As far as Josephus goes I find it hard to believe he's reliable, for the following reasons:

He was born 37 CE which is some 4 - 7 years after Jesus and the pentecostal experience, so he didn't live through those times. His "Antiquities of the Jews" wasn't finished until 93 CE which is contemporary with Paul and other Apostles but try and find Paul in Josephus's writings. Sure he mentions James the brother of Jesus who is called the Christ, but what Josephus mentions about Jesus is hearsay, it should be noted that the oldest texts of Josephus's writings are from the 11th century. There is some debate about the section mentioning Jesus being forged in the 4th century by Bishop Eusebius. Even if the mention of Jesus is not forged I would consider the fact that Josephus was commissioned by Flavius (Vespasian) Caesar to write history for him.

Aside from Josephus and his questionable reliability, there are no Roman or Jewish historians who were born earlier then 37 CE who wrote anything about Jesus or Paul. This is not a good case for Christianity.

Seth

I missed that Rock. I never stood in line naked. :-)

Hmm, maybe I was naked and just don't remember it.

No, my kids would definitely be telling me about it now.

~Chrispy

LOL that must have been the early '80's when it was huge, (pardon the pun) I went when the rocks were smaller.

Seth

Did this happen to anyone else?

During my advance class they had something I think called a "junk table" in one the room, on it was all kinds of devilish things like: auto writing; ectoplasm; psychic healing; etc.

I remember being scared out of my mind seeing all that stuff. I didn't show it but I couldn't wait to get out there. I remembered them "warning" us not to handle any of the stuff.

Something else that scarred me was that whole "roll away" process after the meals. (Some those meal... yeach! what was with the sea salt and kelp instead of pepper.)

Wow, haven't thought of the Junk Tables in a long time. I touched the stuff, I only got a lil' possessed LOL. I remember looking through the articles about the one of the CEO's of Proctor & Gamble who was a Satanist, you remember when P&G's logo was this Man in the moon with 13 stars or something. Then there was the auto writing and ectoplasm pictures as mentioned, I liked the whole table full of "Seth speaks" paraphernalia. They had a Golden book "The Kitten who lost her mitten" I could never figure out why that made the junk table. Also a copy of an old Infocom computer text adventure called Zork was on the table, I seem to remember the lost books of Moses were on one table. A course in miracles on another table, I forget all the stuff they had, on one table it just looked like they dumped a kids toy box on it.

Seth

P.s. what's the weather going to be tomorrow Raf?

With all the elements of TWI, power, sex, cover-up, mystery, music, etc.

What do you think about a movie about TWI? Would you have play the parts?

My pick for LCM would be Woody Harrison.

How about Clancy Brown as LCM?

Just thinkin'

Seth

WaySider thanks for starting this thread.

I want to honor all my fallen comrades that fought for our country, and died especially the men and women who gave their lives and shed their blood on foreign soil.

I wish to doubly honor those men and women who have honorably and faithfully followed lawful orders to their death, even though those orders were given my unlawful men. Men like Lynden B. Johnson who escalated our involvement in Viet Nam which is now known to be a war over oil, not a war to keep the commies out. Men like George H. W. Bush (whom I served under along with Dick Cheney) who's legacy of oil greed is so transparent it's tragic, and of course George W. Bush who has over seen not only the deaths of 4,082 American troops (some by suicide) but the deaths of over 1,200,000 Iraqi citizens since 3/19/03.

I honor those men and women for doing their duty even when the orders were designed to perpetuate an unlawful military aggression, against enemies fancied or real, for the fiduciary gain of a few, and for the perpetuation of a chain of power being passed to people whose association is not by blood but corporate.

Consider the words of James Madison, the father of our Constitution:

“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.”

delivered 17 January 1961

A snip:

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States cooperations -- corporations.

Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet, we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades. In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Thanks,

Seth

a few things...

my rewrite your description of pre-stage...

(notice the words i removed (i, me, my, they, it, etc...))

discomfort, noises, giant, figures, touch, good, safe, feed, noises.

when asked "where are you?"

pre-egoic children often point straight out

Right, OK I forgot pre-ego has no concept of self, it's all one, they do not make a distinction between the internal and external to them it's all one.

but eventually "i" starting noticing a "me"

and otherwise start building a face

eventually to become a wide range of "my" and "mine"

all my wanting and needing

my eating pooping sleeping

my wishing and praying

my happiness

my sadness

my anger

my thoughts

my dreams

etc...

my selfish ego is born

the quality of this brief experience varies wildly exotic among people

but embeds a specific archetypal shape at the base of our future knot of perspectives

its how we first come to believe in a self

the faith we have in our self will

and having been the firstborn sense of self

our magic wanting wishing seeking self is also always already the oldest perspective

...like the widest, deepest canyon ... big brother

like the shape of our first wound...our original "sin"

we each have a scar from our own blood red adam

and though we may pick up and lose and change a lot of little things

...this one pattern endures through death...swallowed over and over again by higher forms of belief

our experience of developing an ego are so deep and lasting

ive often wondered if the gospel millstone was meant for the child offended, and not the offender

as a way to make an even more important point about precious nature of infancy and youth

by spoiling them....we make magic addicts...selfish adults whose wants needs and will are the rules...

or by abusing them...we make magic phobia...self-abased adults who lack self will...starving for power for abundant living

or etc, and otherwise

QUOTE(Seth R. @ May 21 2008, 04:20 PM)

What believing becomes for stage five and beyond is a method, various sources and means to getting what we need, no magic just people power. A person who develops methods of doing things is a kind of person who sees value in everything learned, and has made more mistakes then successes. They look forward to the challenge and learning new perspective giving skills.

sounds more like 3rd to 4th perspectives...where action, behaviour, practice, objectivity, method, truthfulness are weighed in the 3rd

which then can eventually open us up to greater a capacity for deeper and more authentic introspection as we move through the 4th

5th is more passively active in the background...easy to miss, easy to notice...and like a thumb, touches any and all fingers

OK I'll have go read that paper you sent me again, this is new stuff to me.

Thanks,

Seth

There was a time when I had decided that it had to be false. Things were not going well for me, and I looked at all of the promises that we were taught, yet my life sucked (howbeit, I was not meeting the conditions for the promises). It was shortly after you left Eureka. I blew the engine in that brown station wagon that I had all of that trouble with, and then blew the engine in my truck about a week later. I ha decided to give up on believing.

I couldn't do it. It lasted about a half a second, but life continued to suck until one day in 2001 The Lord said to me "Mat 6:33: You know this stuff. Why aren't you doing it?" That is when my life started to turn around. It was a slow process, but it worked.

John I'm sorry your life sucked for so long, but I left Eureka in '89, are you telling me you continued to believe for 11 years before your life turned around? Maybe you should look at that, not from a stand point of you doing something wrong, but from the view of faithfully following directions that really lead nowhere, in other words you were sold a bag of magic beans. As life has it if you are lost and you just keep walking in the same direction you may find out where you are, or die trying. I prefer changing course and turn around heading back the way I came, I came from Atheism found religion was leading me deeper into the forest, I got tired turned around and walked out of the woods back to Atheism.

The fact is that we were sold a box of broken toys, TWI wasn't the first to do it, VPW just repackaged them with a little lead paint and some leaky batteries, sold as-is no refund all sales final, if you don't like it tell god I'm sure he has the answers. My answers from "god" have always ever been one of these 3 things: "dead silence" "my own pleasant rationalization" or "some remembered scripture or quote from a lecture" if it originates between my ears it's not good enough to be god talking to me (some psychiatrists might call that dissociative personality disorder or schizophrenia). That kind of thinking landed me in trouble more often then not.

John, I was diagnosed with cancer in 1998, it was a golfball sized growth on my right testicle, I noticed the change in shape as far back as 1993 when I was on the WOW field. It didn't start to really be noticeable as a size of a pea until around the time I left TWI in late 1994 I did nothing about it for 4 more years until after an Aerosmith Concert I was in so much pain I couldn't sleep. Why did I wait so long to have it checked? Because Doc Vic taught in the advanced class that cancer is a devil spirit, I was afraid I was hosting a devil spirit and I was totally afraid of being ravaged by a cancer spirit. So much for comfort from believing the truth of the bible, and having an in depth spiritual perception and awareness. There was no comfort, there was no still small voice, there was no visions of glory, there was no peace, just the dead silence of the realization that if the bible is right and what VPW says about the bible is right then I'm totally screwed.

Now that I'm an Atheist I'm not afraid to get cancer again, the chemo was bad but not that bad, I'm a vegetarian now and haven't had a drink of alcohol in 7 plus years so I'm in better health then I was back then. Since I don't believe in god or the devil angels or devil spirits my comfort and peace is better then it ever has been, I have fewer fears, and I'm consistently happier then I've ever been. Why? Because like my Father who is one of the wisest men I know told me while I was still involved with TWI, "Son you are the Captain of your own ship, no body else, you decide what you want to be and do." I am in total control of my life, and that's why I'm not afraid.

Sorry if I offended and or freaked people out.

Seth

I am an Anti-Christ, not "The" Anti-Christ, but one of.

Ask me any thing, I'll tell you what my plans are.

First stage of my plan is to make more then $50,000 a year maybe even about $90k so I can support a family.

Second stage of my plan involves marriage children, you know having a couple so I can raise them and love them like a good father.

Third stage of my plan is to enjoy my life, what little I have left.

I'm at stage zero right now.

Seth

out of no belief

we move (or not)

from 1) belief in personal magic over all...which is how subjective 1st person perspectives grow...

to 2) belief in cultural myth over all...which is how inter-subjective 2nd person perspectives grow...

to 3) belief in rational proof over all..which is how objective 3rd person perspectives grow...

to 4) belief in social process over all...which is how inter-objective 4th person perspectives grow...

to 5) belief in perspectives over all...which is how we grow aperspectivally (able to notice the above 4 perspectives from a 5th perspective)...

to perhaps even beyond

Since you and I have had time to discuss this it gave me process and the perspective yeilding insight, which I maybe wrong about but let me work it out here.

As an infant crying. Pre-stage 1 / stage 1

I as an infant was pre-verbal and autistic (everyone starts at an autistic level and grows out of it, some don't they have autism) but as I feel discomfort I make noises, some result in this giant godlike figure appearing. These god's (Father Mother Aunts Uncles) they touch me and it feels good and safe, they feed me, they make noises back to me. But after a short time I discovered if I make a loud sound they come and pay attention to me, feed me clean me, make happy sounds to me. So when I cry my god's come to me, my god's here my cry, and it's magical, I feel discomfort I cry and my god's come to make me feel better.

This is in some ways is on the level with this law of believing concept as taught by VPW and TWI in general, not really a mature self actualizing belief system.

Once one arrives at stage five in their development hopefully they see in perspective that believing is not a magical law, we should have learned by age 2 that our god's are not god's because our cries are being more and more unanswered time for a new paradigm. What believing becomes for stage five and beyond is a method, various sources and means to getting what we need, no magic just people power. A person who develops methods of doing things is a kind of person who sees value in everything learned, and has made more mistakes then successes. They look forward to the challenge and learning new perspective giving skills. The stage 1 and 2 stay in a perpetual state of perfectionism and laws and rules, things are black and white good and bad, it's me or us against you or them, there are no alternative ways of doing things, it's how my god's told me to do it and if I don't do it that way I get punished.

Well I've had enough of my own babble, NEXT!

Seth

For me, it is just the opposite. The more I learn about the Bible, the stronger my believing becomes. When I see truth is all of those false religions, it reminds me of one of the devil's tricks: To be a good lie it has to have an element of truth. If I handed you a red $100 with a picture of my cat on it, I think you would know right off that it was a counterfeit. But if I had a really good counterfeit, and you saw some difference between it and the genuine, you might even decide that the genuine were the counterfeit.

Did you know that archaeologists will use the Bible to find out what they have found is?

John, the reason you can't convince me on this point is several reason's first it relies on a single source and cites no other sources, the evidence provided is anecdotal, circumstantial or based on hearsay. I would be deluding myself if I were to only rely on what I think up between my ears, and only listening to people who believed and thought the same things, it's group delusion.

As far as false religions, which is the false? The older one or the newer one? How far back do you want to go? !0,000 years? 20,000 years? 100,000 years?

Why do people continue to use that worn out old, the value of the counterfeit increases with it's nearness to the likeness of the genuine, argument? Because the real essence of the problem is theists keep handing out lead and saying it's gold, they don't even paint it gold, they just hand it out and expect people to have faith that even though it looks like lead it's really gold.

More archaeologists and historians have proven the Bible as an unreliable source for finding ancient sites and a very vague historical record, even the gospels which were written many decades after the supposed events cannot get the history right even though the authors could have at least tried. The gospels have no compelling proof that can be validated by historians of the time.

This goes back to the china tea cup argument, simply put, if I were to say to you, "John, orbiting Jupiter's moon Io is an 18th century China tea cup." now assuming we didn't have a telescope strong enough to see it to prove it, would you believe me? If not why? Isn't my word enough? Don't you trust me? What if I showed you a picture of the tea cup my nephew drew with Crayola crayons, I mean he's a young innocent boy he wouldn't lie, and plus he used Crayola the best crayons, you know.

Well maybe my story about the China tea cup is unbelievable and so it should be, but what if thousand year old religious texts were written about the tea cup orbiting Io, suppose whole societies sprung from it, wars fought over it's belief, economies built around it's belief, Children being raised to worship the sacred China Tea Cup, various sects formed around theological differences over whether the China Tea Cup being from the 18th century but mentioned in religious texts dating as far back as 4,000 years ago. Was the cup transported back in time to orbit Io, or was it just in the foreknowledge of the potter?

This all brings me to the argument, should I feel obligated to believe in the existence of the China tea cup orbiting Io even thought I can't prove it exists? Or even better, does it make sense to believe in the existence of something *because* I *can't* prove it exists, which would sound like this. "I chose to believe in the China tea cup *because* I can't prove it exists."

Anyway I've said enough about this for right now.

Seth

P.s. bringing up trust in god over what man does and not blaming god for man's ways is convenient smoke and mirrors for men who build religions and institutions of worship. It's an easy out for them, hey don't blame me god told me to do it, he's moves in mysterious ways his wonders to perform. All we have in representation in this dimension are beings of flesh and blood, and as language developed so did the transmittal of ideas and thoughts.

Genesis may say god created man in his own image, anyone looking at ancient Egyptian and Greek gods would wonder if the translators have it wrong. Man created god(s) in his own image.

Sorry for the grammatical artifacts.

Seth and I have been friends since back in the day.

It's the "atheist" part that bothers me. I agree with you on twi and organized religion, but the Bible is very important. We can't let what people do remove us from our destiny. Jesus don't play that, but people do.

Hi again John, good to see you back around these cyber-parts.

I'm Atheist for sure, maybe a little Pantheist when I'm waxing philosophical but I definitely do not believe in god or jesus. For that matter I've done some research into some of the origins of the bible, and Moses well it blew my ever-thinning hair back to find out Egyptian, Sumerian, and many other cultures have had many of the motifs of stories in the bible, most notably the nativity virgin birth and death/resurrection, and Saviour stories. Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Dionysus, Hercules, and others. Horus was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God's Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc. The Greek God Hermes who was one of the "12" Olympians was known as "The Good Shepherd". Many ancient myths are source material for much of the bible.

One of the other facts that is coming to light with information from scholars researching ancient myths and practices is that much of the bible is allegorical astrological myths, or stories teaching astronomy. Which may be pure blasphemy to most Christians, but they'll never know if they continue to use the bible as their truth and use the same bible to prove that it, the bible is correct in what it says about itself. Kind of like asking a criminal if they are guilty and they say no, even thought they did it, but you let them go on their word. The circular logic of using the bible to prove itself truly boggles my mind to no end.

Yes I know I'm far from that wide eyed teenager that took the PFAL class in Sky Wood's house.

Seth

Hi, thanks everyone for your replies.

Caveman and I go back aways, 1987-88 time frame, right John? Thanks but, I'm not interested in what the bible says or man's opinion, and I'm a little surprised that you who I know have been through the wringer with this TWI babble about laws of believing, should wish to defend it.

I'm also not interested in reading anything about it here as far as that goes.

I'd like to see a scientific study done, forget the bible, if there is a power that anyone can tap into that issues the goody goodies of life on request I'd like to see it put to the test.

If it's a law it should be testable measurable and definable. Other wise it's just an attitude an outlook or perspective or observation, but a law? Please don't insult my intelligence.

Seth

Hi everyone,

I'm a tech-head and a cheap one at that, Lately I've been looking to upgrade my PC hardware at home. I tend to do allot of

intense applications like video compression and virtual PC work, I play the occasional action game like Battle Field 2 and

Lord of the Rings Return of the King, and sometimes Doom 3.

Multi cores are the buzzword, and I've done some research, first I'm not an Intel guy, so if you are and won't change don't

bother reading the rest. I like AMD because 1) they innovate for their customers rather then just to innovate 2) they are a

better value 3) My family owns some of their stock.

Now here's the scoop, I've always had a price point of $300 for the motherboard and CPU since I started upgrading my

own PC's back in 1995. What I do is I look at the current cpu and mother boards out and when the price and performance

is around $300 that's when I buy it. Since there are fluctuations in the market and bleeding edge tech is to costly in terms

of price and volatility I chose to wait for the hardware to reach that price point and it has always seemed to work.

My latest research indicates that the new AMD Phenom triple core is the best value for a couple reasons:

1) The quad core Phenoms on the market are an older stepping called B2 which has a bug, the triple core use a fixed core stepping called B3

2) In benchmarks the triple core was on average only 6% slower then the quad core of the same gigahertz

3) The triple core runs 25% cooler then it's 4 core brother.

The latest chipset to have is the AMD 780G it matters little what brand motherboard as long as you try to stick with MSI, ASUS or Gigabyte if you choose ASRock or ECS or PCChips beware.

The reason I choose the 780G chipset is for several reasons:

1) It's the only chipset out that has what's called hybrid SLI support, it has a Video chip built-in so you don't need a video card. What makes it unique is that in most built-in video motherboards you cannot use a second video card in tandem to double your video processing power. With the 780G you can add certain ATI video cards and harness the extra GPU to increase your video frame rates in games like Far Cry and Crysis.

2) Full feature support for the Phenom processors

3) It's an AMD chipset, duh, I like AMD.

Most of my friends are running 1 - 2 gigahertz single core CPU's with 512 meg of ram and Windows XP the hardware I am suggesting will knock the socks off of any one including me. What I'm suggesting is I'd estimate 20 to 30 times faster then a single core non-hyperthreading P4 running at 2 Ghz.

So what are we looking at for price? Well before we get to that, I assume you have experience putting these things together if not get someone to help you, most tech guys like pizza and beer as fair compensation I however usually do it for free especially if it's sweet hardware like this.

Since I think most of you will need more then just a CPU and motherboard to make this a successful upgrade I included my picks for Ram and a nice new case all for under $400!!

Here's the run down for the PC upgrade I call:

Project: Triple-Thread

Total: $375.96

Prices and part #'s from Newegg.com

Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price

1 APEVIA X-QBOII X-QBOII-BL/500 Black / Blue SECC Steel MicroATX Mini Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply - Retail

Model #: X-QBOII-BL/500

Item #: N82E16811144227

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

In Stock

Mail-in Rebate

$74.99 $74.99

1 GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

Model #: GA-MA78GM-S2H

Item #: N82E16813128090

Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy

In Stock

$99.99 -$10.00 Instant $89.99

1 AMD Phenom 8650 Toliman 2.3GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Triple-Core Processor Model HD8650WCGHBOX - Retail

Model #: HD8650WCGHBOX

Item #: N82E16819103253

Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy

In Stock

$165.99 $165.99

1 mushkin 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996527 - Retail

Model #: 996527

Item #: N82E16820146118

Return Policy: Memory (Modules, USB) Return Policy

In Stock

Mail-in Rebate

$44.99 $44.99

Subtotal: $375.96

Thanks George this site looks like it has allot of potential. As some have pointed out there's not much in the way of detailed information. However I think I have the gist of the site, it's intended to raise questions about these things not answer them. The question can be more powerful then the answer sometimes.

Seth