What kind of insanity this seems like, no matter what the lights were, the fact that VPW spent so much time (40 hours) staring into them for so long was bound to cause some damage. The vanity of VPW was his downfall in many ways, he really didn't need the set so brightly lit, but I'm sure from the test shots, he demanded that the brightest lights be used. I mean the set was to bright, it looked like a cartoon.

Seth

I did some research on this when this discussion came up before and found that, in fact, the type of lighting used during the filiming of PFAL could cause sufficient trauma to later result in ocular melanoma.

David Anderson, who was present during the filming and with whom I spoke about this (and who by the way is not a VPW cheerleader by any means), said that VPW had a great deal of trouble with his eyes during the filming because of the bright, hot lights used.

I also seem to recall Mrs. Wierwille talking about this long before the cancer was discovered, saying that he had to put cold compresses on his eyes after each filming session because the lights were burning his eyes so badly.

No doubt, twi used this info to feed VPW's image as a hero and certainly did not want to focus on the AC doctrine of cancer being caused by DSs, but the fact remains that one can get ocular cancer in this way.

I was on staff at HQ when VP lost his eye and subsequently died. I never heard any story about a fish hook. Where John Reyn*lds got that, I don't know. I'm not saying he lied; maybe someone lied to him and he believed it.

If you're a flat-earther, this image is a fake

By Brendan O'Neill

In the 21st Century, the term "flat-earther" is used to describe someone who is spectacularly - and seemingly wilfully - ignorant. But there is a group of people who claim they believe the planet really is flat. Are they really out there or is it all an elaborate prank?

Nasa is celebrating its 50th birthday with much fanfare and pictures of past glories. But in half a century of extraordinary images of space, one stands out.

Their big@$$ church is about five minutes from where I work. They took the old basketball arena and converted it into a church. I'm thinking it's the largest church in the U.S. or something like that.

As to their doctrine, it is just wishy-washy feel good stuff, but it seems to draw a lot of people, so this atheist views it as being as good as any other church. The Olsteens do have a fame for liking the good life though.

Hey Mister P-Mosh let's go whoop it up with the Olsteens maybe we can get some dumb chicks there?

LOL!

Seth

What about those of us who were just as indoctrinated, who never saw a class, just heard it on tape. I don`t think hypnotism with the eyes would be effective.

yes true but he used many techniques, the eyes is just one.

From the critical mass bike rider site.

4. Don't get a permit.

When local police learn of your ride, they may insist that you get a permit, perhaps a parade permit. Don't do it. The point of Critical Mass is that biking is a right, not a privilege. Cars don't need permits to ride on the streets, and neither should cyclists.

Cars do need permits, it's called registration tags and inspection.

Seth

My wife says I keep her awake snoring. I've heard of all kinds of solutions but I've never heard anyone say they worked.

Anyone know of a good remedy.

Polar Bear,

I have severe chronic obstructive sleep apnea, I use a CPAP (Constant Positive Airway Pressure) machine when I sleep.

I get a better nights sleep and I feel better all around when I'm using it, so much so that I won't even take a nap without it.

Sleep Apnea is serious, snoring is a sign of it, if you aren't rested after 8 hours of sleep on a regular basis you should see a sleep specialist.

CPAP is as close to a cure as they have without surgery, but even surgery is no guaranty and due to gravity the soft tissues of the throat will sag requiring more surgery.

As Watered Garden pointed out Sleep apnea *will* cause heart disease and high blood pressure, also brain damage because of oxygen deprivation.

In my sleep study I stopped breathing over 200 times during the night. In the past I would wake up gasping for air, and it started happening more and more until I was afraid to sleep.

Now I wear a mask at night which causes some irritation but I wake refreshed and ready for the day.

You owe it to yourself to get that checked out, believe me it's worth it.

Seth

Skyrider,

Great topic, and well written. I'm inclined to challenge you to look deeper, and so I agree with Coolchef and others who pointed out PFAL foundational as the start of the programming.

From session One Wierwille starts with his technique, setting up a train of questions which we all agree on, then he slips in one we cannot validate but we agree anyway. He does this with increasing frequency until we are accepting *everything* he says even though maybe only every other thing he says is true. He uses suspense to build up tension, and then releases it with a dumb joke, then wham hits you broadside with a suggestion.

There is a hypnotic technique VPW uses in PFAL that I have yet to prove how much he uses it through out the class because I don't have access to it. The technique he used is a trance induction technique where the hypnotist looks you in the eyes but is focusing 6 inches behind your eyes. All those close ups of Vic's face, remember how wierd he seemed to look with his eyes? It was trance induction, which caused the viewer to open up to suggestion. I have no idea how many suggestions he made during the class, but anyone with a copy could count them, they are there.

A minor amount of programming was going on at the twig level but PFAL was the big one for sure.

Seth

Hi yourself and see how you like it!

;)

Seth

Well strictly speaking you would have to "screw out" before you screw in, which raises a whole other question. Any way you look at it you're screwed.

If the question was how many Grease Spotter's does it take to change a light bulb then I would reply with these remarks:

The Way-Brain Grease Spotter would say: "The bulb must renew it's filament"

The Zen Grease Spotter would say: "What is the true nature of the light bulb?"

The self-help Grease Spotter would say: "The light bulb has to want to change"

The Green Grease Spotter would say: "If you would use an LED bulb it wouldn't need to be changed for 10 years"

The Grease Spotter who likes to quote the bible would say: "Get thee behind me light bulb!"

The All-Nine-All-the-time Grease Spotter would say: "I'll minister healing to the light bulb"

The Apple Computer using Grease Spotter would say: "Called AppleCare and they sent me a replacement bulb then walked me through the steps on how to do it. Did you see the cool box it came in?"

The Dr. Phil fan Grease Spotter would say: "What makes you think that it's the light bulb that needs to change?"

:)

Seth

OK, I'm just laughing because last week I threw away my #10 16 inch long "eye poking" needle, I thought I'd never need to use it any more. That is until I visited that facebook page, damn! Where's a good needle to stick in my eye when I need it! Oh, well.

Nice try.

Seth

Acharya S. sent me an email linking to her blog on the Oldest intact Greek new testament dating to around 350 AD/CE found in Egypt is to be released on the internet in a few days. As an ex-TWI I'm fascinated, as a skeptic I'm pleased that such an important document will be shared for believers and non-believers alike to ponder and make their own translations rather then rely on biased theologians squirreled away in some library making his own translations.

Here's a link to Acharya's blog

Here's a snip:

Monday, July 21, 2008

Oldest New Testament Out of Egypt into Cyberspace

In a move reflective of the power of technology, the oldest New Testament Bible will be placed online for all the world to examine. Of course, this is great news for students of Bible manuscripts. One fascinating fact about this archaeological gem is its origin in Egypt.

The New Testament manuscript in question is the Codex Sinaiticus, distinguished from earlier manuscripts by virtue of its completeness, containing all the canonical texts along with the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas, the former of which has been shown to have a provenance of Alexandria, Egypt. Along with the Codex Vaticanus, the CS is the oldest intact manuscript, dating to around 350 AD/CE.

Importantly, the Codex Sinaiticus was discovered and evidently written in Egypt, a locale vastly overlooked in studies of Christian origins. It is my contention, in fact, that without factoring in Egyptian religion and mythology, the study of Christian origins will always be incomplete and faulty, because it is unquestionably out of Egypt that Christ was called, so to speak, as a mythical rehash largely of the Egyptian gods Osiris and Horus.

"Out of Egypt have I called my son."

--The Gospel of Matthew (2:15)

Enjoy,

Seth

You guys probably have already seen this as the low carb diet STILL wins in all the studies. Click HERE! for the link. The American Heart Association just can't admit its been wrong all these years with their low fat theory. But study after study has confirmed that Adkins was right all along. And the best part? There are no calorie restrictions on the low carb diet like there are on the Mediterranean and low fat diets.

I agree with all that's been said about low simple carb diet. I'm a sugar addict for sure, it's hard to break, but once broken there is a new feeling I get. I'm going to set a date to end all white sugar and dig into the whole grains and high protein vege's like beans and cauliflower. Since I'm a semi-vegetarian (still eat fish and eggs and dairy) it's tough, but I like tofu better then I did 10 years ago so it's possible.

I have to say the American fast food situation is mostly poison, the only places I can get a decent lunch is Subways or Chinese food (yum General Tso's Tofu)

Seth

Byproduct of the karaoke bar scene.

LOL!!

I don't know why but I just don't seem to have a nicotine addiction, I can smoke or not smoke. I have 2 packs of Djarum flavored clove cigarettes one is cherry the other vanilla. They have been sitting on my computer desk for a couple months, I smoke maybe one every couple days, sometimes 1 a week if I'm really stressed I'll smoke 2 cigs a day.

People say I should quit, I say why, I like the buzz every now and then, and this has been for decades that I've been like this, the most I smoked was when I first quit drinking about 7 years ago even then I had to think about when I wanted a cig. I never liked cigarettes and coffee together, a Cohiba and India Pale Ale is a different story.

I'm a freak of nature I know. Don't worry I'm not going to go try crack to see if I'll get addicted to that, or heroin either. (I'm allergic to opiates anyway) Although a little doob always sounds good, but it's not in the cards right now.

Seth

nevermind

Seth

Happy Birthday Excath!

What the? Am I so self absorbed that I missed ExC's birfdai? Wow, happiness to a beautiful person.

Seth

Gimme a break at least Im trying to understand what your saying--atleast im not telling you they're spirits or devils

OK I'm sorry, about the knuckle heads comment, I got over whelmed. Hey it happens to me, when I'm faced with explaining myself, I've been a little edgy lately for reasons I cannot discuss here let's just say there was a betrayal and a theft recently and I'm trying to deal with that.

I'm not feeling well enough to explain myself in detail, I will provide things to explore:

Dr. Michio Kaku - Wikipage

Truth be known

What the Bleep Do We Know?

Seth

he said "beings" that can do magic and miracles, and "willing to believe"

Sounds like christianity to me--what with angels appearing disappearing, bringing "messages" and "miracles" and its main character being taken up to a someplace "not in our dimension"

Sounds like the exact same type thing and set of beliefs to me...

No I didn't say that can do magic and miracles, go back and read it again. If a being having sufficiently advanced technology could do something we can't currently do like say instantly heal a wound then would it appear to be magic? I love how you folks take what I say and twist it to make your argument.

String theory talks about other dimensions. I'm talking about willing to believe or ready to change my mind if there is sufficient evidence to reliably prove it. At the moment I've no proof of these things so I do not believe in them.

I mean really am I talking knuckle heads here?

Seth

Well there are terms for that, it's called media spin, however there are weak Atheists, meaning they are guided by logic and science but hold in their hearts the willingness to believe that science may find proof of other dimensional beings, or explanations for legends.

I'm willing to believe that there may be other dimensions I cannot see, and it may be in those dimensions there are beings with sufficiently advanced technology that it would seem like magic or a miracle to me what they can do. This is a statistical long shot but given enough time and research we may make contact and find out ghosts and such are not dead human spirits, but adolescent antics performed by young highly advanced other dimensional aliens. You know the more advanced a race of beings the more important play is to their emotional development.

I however do not base my life and actions on this belief, I don't try to build a dogma around it, and then invite people to join me in the quest to worship the pan-dimensional beings with advanced technology. There are people who do, scientologists and the Heaven's Gate group, maybe many others, they have taken a hope of a story that is plainly far fetched and made a religion around it.

Even though I'm an Atheist I remain a hopeful skeptic, that is to say I know we are learning new things every day, if some new proof comes around I think I could change my mind about what I believe.

Seth

First thing, love the quotes Mister P-Mosh.

The best we know about one 6th of the world population considers themselves Atheist or Agnostic, we might have more but haven't had time to count them.

You may ask why then haven't we heard from these Atheists? Well for the most part they mind their own business, aren't concerned with organizing or otherwise making a big deal about it. The other more important reason Atheists and to some extent Agnostics don't advertise their lack of belief is because religious people are very violent, this may insult most of you fine believers who are peaceful, but you need to understand this. Religion is a breeding ground for the scum of the earth, and that is not the fault of "Joe Churchgoer" but of the system, and the beliefs that make up the system. I'm sorry but this is my opinion. You cannot blame the whole problem on the extremists because if you were to ask a moderate and an extremist about a scripture that says god said kill those infidels, they would both agree that it's the right thing to do, but the extremist would actually do it. So the whole system is screwed because let's I say I'm Christian (but like to murder people, on a regular basis, but not those of the same faith) I'd still be forgiven and welcomed in church, and called a soldier for the lord, I call that crazy talk.

Something I'd like to point out to my religious friends is that much of the modern day conveniences we have, the advanced medicine and life extending & saving drugs we all benefit from daily were invented by Atheists. Most to the greatest scientific breakthroughs of our age have been discovered by Atheists, and they don't turn around and say only Atheists can use these developments. You religious people need to get off your arrogant high horses. I mean the top three killers 100 years ago were Pneumonia, Diarrhea and the Flu, if it was up to religious people those still would be the top killers because instead of scientific discovery we'd have a church meeting and pray over it.

This is all I have time to say right now.

Go Atheists Go!

Seth

My Favorite:

Thanks for your help, I'm wondering if I had one of them since childhood and just recently got the other from a deertick bite.

My friend may have carried a hitchhiker into my house, and I might have picked up the tick from his clothes. I noticed a small bullseye on my hand, but it didn't look like what I saw online, so dummy me I ignored it.

I hope don't have irreversible brain damage from it, if that's what I have.

But the symptoms are explaining why I have developed these problems with memory and irritability and bad misspelling. Really frustrating.

Seth

Yes, Seth, it's very possible that you were undertreated for Lyme previously. And if you've never been treated for babesiosis you could be experiencing symptoms from that. Headache, chills, sweats, and a feeling like a deep breath isn't enough to catch your breath are typical for babesia, which is a protozoa related to malaria, not a bacterium like Lyme, and requires a different test and treatment.

Add to that the fact that Lyme is often misdiagnosed and undertreated, and you can be one sick puppy.

Babesia is usually treated with a combination of atovaquone (Mepron) and azythromycin (Zithromax). But be sure to tell the doctor you have tinnitus (ringing in the ears), as Zithromax can possibly damage your hearing, and you should be monitored if you already have hearing symptoms and are taking it.

I'm not a doctor, blah, blah, insert disclaimer, just a patient who has been there.

-- Shaz

Congrat's can't wait to read it, you will remind us again in September?

Seth

Dominick LaCapra---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Allon Brann <ayb2103@columbia.edu>

Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:22 AM

Subject: CUJH Article Nomination

To: rmj28@cornell.edu

Dear Ryan,

Congratulations! Professor LaCapra has nominated your paper from his course "Topics in European Intellectual and Cultural History: The Secular and the Sacred" for publication in the Columbia Undergraduate Journal of History. This places you among a select group of undergraduates whose outstanding historical work is gathered by our journal on the basis of nominations received by professors from around the country. All nominated articles will be published on the Journal's website: cujh.columbia.edu in September, and will be reviewed and considered for publication in our print edition for the Fall of 2008.

my headaches come and go, the lingering kind have been present at times, but I thought it was the weather, I was thinking it could be lyme. The chills are harder to nail, but yes, and the sweats night and day sometimes. Crap I don't think I had a blood draw for lyme. I've had a stiff neck for a while.

Thanks for the concern, and lyme has come up more then 2 times in my past I better have it looked at.

holy crap I looked at that booklet and I have most of the symptoms on the check list, the unexplained dental pain has been recent. Could I have had Lyme disease since grade school?

Seth

Seth!

You said your symptoms were:

• Every inch of my body is in pain or itches
  
• I'm chronicly fatigued
  
• my ears ring
  
• I have labored breathing
  
• neuropathy
  
• I am extremely irritable
  

On top of that, you are live in an area endemic for Lyme disease. And a neck MRI, why? Do you have a stiff neck?

You sound classic for neuroborreliosis (late-stage, neurological Lyme) + babesiosis (a co-infection also carried by deer ticks). That would account for the labored breathing. Do you have chills or night sweats, headache or near-headache?

The most comprehensive symptom list I know for Lyme is at:

http://www.lymepa.org/Basics2007v1.2Rev.pdf

Antibody blood tests for Lyme can help confirm a Lyme diagnosis, but they should NOT rule Lyme out, because you might not be making enough antibodies to test positive. It is a diagnosis based on symptoms. Feel free to IM if you need to know more,

Take care,

Shaz

He was still performing as of ROA '89, but he wasn't putting as much work into it.

I had heard he left in 1990, but that was hearsay and word-of-mouth.

It appears this was wrong.

I think LCM trotted him out to sing one song at an ROA in '92 or '93 my memory is hazy.

Seth