mj412

mike is saying "the word of God" is NOT "the bible". oh man no wonder so few join your cult Mike... so "the word is what Mike? what ever revelation you read into it??? man that is just dam scary... powerful for YOU , I mean you can now understand Gods secret code written only to those with ears to hear it... what Power and arrogance. Works for you right? why is it the word JESUS CHRIST is NEVER ever used in your posts??? Maybe becuase He is the KING and the thinking head not you for real and that would hurt or confuse the plan of God hmm? Mike how is your relationship with Jesus Christ are you as close to Him as you feel you are to vpw writings?? or well why waste what He says in your mind when all the revelation happens when you master pfal anyway.. nothing to do with Jesus Christ. You hate to have to say or write that word dont you Mike kind of makes the throne a little shaky huh? Paul learned the hard way he was very serious in what he believed as well many would say he mastered his lessons.... he was wrong and Jesus brought him to his knees , what is Jesus Christ telling you? oh thats right it is your god wih the secret code you listen too. not Jesus Christ.

Goey I stand corrected it was Jesus Christ who opposed Paul and brought him to a life of service for those he persecuted. I said God because I was in a hurry typing.. Jesus is the one running the show God made Him the King for us. Jesus Christ doesnt have those nasty little "sin issues" (or flesh)either you must debate away Mike...like vpw. I think the fact he was a man and didnt sin and no one eles can ever say that is enough to consider Him beofre what any man will say or do. You can either chose Him and the bible story about what He did or keep agruing for a man like vpw or any other one that wants you to adore him before the Christ of mankind. It is your choice.

1 corintians 4 says lests read it here: "For though ye have ten thousands instructors in Christ, yet you not many fathers. maybe vpw was an instructer in Christ of which Paul states there is plenty and not so special... maybe..... clearly when Paul says be ye followers of ME he means ME meaning Paul. so you take that and say vpw is like Paul so we should be a follower..of him. where does it say that? This idea of modern day "gift ministries" with the title is really WRONG! so cult talk. That is the idea that began or accelerated the people worship cult to the max oo he has a gift he is allowed to abuse etc. bull.... people think they are so much than what God says their position is in life. Life with God is spiritual which means something bigger than a man. What makes you think God needs YOU? this gift ministry idea allows the egos to get rabid . OOO did they want to touch the hem of Paul or did they run from fright thinking he would/could murder them for believing in Jesus Christ? hmmm? God and His people can not be defined by these simple little understanding and needs of those He created.. God doesnt need mankind to do His work... Maybe vpw did .... Paul got into trouble for killing christians for being religous to his sect and God showed him who was a bigger more powerful force clearly. That is the lesson. Not who or what "father" in the word is ... Paul had to deal with God when God played His hand,,, haha this is a story of being most humble to God almighty not to a man.. God gave him a gift alright.. blinded him ..lol The gift ministries available today are spirtiual not man made ... and not because someone was good enogh to get promoted to do it mostly becuase someone is humbled to the point of not being able to refuse . ... God is God he doesnt need man. Jesus christ asks us to love one another, not worship one another. Sure God will do whatever it takes to make it known HE is God and your not , some just keeps refusing to believe it..

How does one avoid the threat if not the actual doing of M@A? For me it left God and Spirit so removed I just didnt want to play anymore. I needed to Trust something more than their word for the situations I was involved in... you state you were able to do GODS WORD while in Fresh Air. Problem was they didnt like it when I did. I was attracted to the fellowship of folks who wanted to serve God together . When I was doubting my own decsions on a daily level I didnt want to be involved anymore... I was afraid of the confrontation or to weak I am not sure which came first. it was NOT in the least worth the fight, with those that I chose to Love and Jesus Christ asked me to serve.

Ex tenth You say you do not want to be an emotional cripple for the rest of your life. "some want to deal with IT some do not ." What is the IT your writing about? Do you want to deal with it? Is it the fact some say things that have no proof or the fact they need no proof for you? What do you mean and how do you address the fact you do not want to be an emotional cripple?

Subject: It's short and I think you will like it A man is lying in bed in a Catholic hospital with an oxygen mask over his mouth. A young auxiliary nurse appears to sponge his face and hands. "Nurse," he mumbles from behind the mask, "Are my testicles black?" Embarrassed, the young nurse replies, "I don't know, I'm only here to wash your face and hands." He struggles again to ask, "Nurse, Are my testicles black?" Again the nurse replies, "I can't tell. I'm only here to wash your face and hands." The ward sister was passing and saw the man getting a littledistraught so marched over to inquire what was wrong. "Sister," he mumbled, "Are my testicles black?" Being a nurse of longstanding, the sister was undaunted. She whipped back the bedclothes, pulled down his pajama trousers, moved his penis out of the way, had a right good look, pulled up the pyjamas, replaced the bedclothes and announced, "Nothing wrong with them!!!" At this the man pulled off his oxygen mask and asked again, "Are my test results back???"

Be careful.. LOCK YOUR DOORS!! Be sure you lock your doors and windows at home! A Virginia Beach man was found dead in his home over the weekend. Virginia Beach Detectives at the scene found the man face down in his bathtub. The tub had been filled with milk, sugar, and cornflakes. A banana was sticking out of his ***. Police suspect a cereal killer

When I "move on" I take the wisdom I learned . I like the idea of growing , not just moving.

Hope this thread is somthing.. maybe I can learn to trust from it. or just not care anymore... either would be better than what I am thinking right now. this is difficult. ok a thief will work with money, child molestors surround their life with children in a most dedicated way. men who rape have certain profiles they are attracted to ... preditors yes preditors lived in The Way, It was a system that asked for alot of trust and loyalty to people and God.... good christian folks were taught not to think evil, to forgive and to never ever hurt someones ministry, allow complete stranger in your home to educate them and bless them . Walk by the spirit love one another... again the list is endless.. What i witnessed was the class became more important than safety much more important... You can turn it all around and say well you fool how could I have been so trusting? Well at the time it was unbelief to question the manner things were done. My problem . Youth inexperience in life and being involved in this great plan to move the word blinded a lot of young innocent people to the reality of evil. I do not think I was a victim of twi because I took pfal and chose to believe it content and made foolish decisions that messed up my life. That I will take responsibility for,, cough hack and grr in hindsight but..I did think and do that. The sexual abuse is not the same, rape is against the law of our land and Gods law. Twi said it was above the law of the land and some people were special and innocent because of WHO did the doing of it... I will not take responsibility for that ever or allow anyone eles to. Im not talking about sex between adults who are confused in a state of cult and its problems and later regret the problems it made for them that is not rape.. Im saying out and out rape . out and out thiefs criminals who look for those they can and will hurt, those who didnt ask for prayer ok? in fact never needed prayer because life was very good for them in the cult... Twi made a haven for them and in my case out right protected them . some had very close ties to the top and hear tell it came down from the top... leadership. They kept them for a reason.. I do not pretend to know what it all means as far as why but they did . Brain washed yes to a degree Garth convinced beyond your own self will to accept the unacceptable by our nations standards and laws because somehow the way knew a higher plan and purpose that mattered more. Was it about them "getting healed" no it was not . In the past? do not bring that up again he/she has been forgiven ... DOYOU want to be guilty of ruining a man of God ministry huh, do you have any idea how serious That charge is??/ worse than rape you know. These type of criminals know how to work a system that has very little concern for the people they are selling out to God, remember that the sold out IDEA ??? hmmm well lets look at who sold out to what a little more closely..hmmm no you probably do not and that is why it went on for years and got worse.... It was at times pure intimidation and the weapon was the word of God.....and the sale of pfal and just how important it was to the way ministry... I can tell you it way far more important than people getting seriously hurt and abused ask the victims or better yet ask the abusers they will tell just how easy it was for them to make a place in the group and stay commited .... move up to high levels of leadership and decide what was best for everyone eles..who would be allowed to do what with whom and just how it was to be. I made this point of those who made up stories about what they were told happened and believed it to be truth .... I count them just as guilty to this day. They also allow it to continue by blinding their eyes and ears to being honest about the circumstances that prevailed.... But they will say now I didnt know so it wasnt me. Maybe some didnt know because they didnt want to know... Many others only think they know and filled in the blanks to help their own position..on someone eles . enemys were made in twi and the easy way to shut some one up was to start talking about them in a very negative way accusing them of outright lies sometimes but also laying out little ideas that the ignorant would run with and soon the very one who may have been honest and on to the truth of a situation was the focus of the gossip and so torn up they would go away or go into denial about what they knew . But the focus would be off the one who was clever enough with his own agenda to keep it going. I do not know it or make this up, this was twi for me... I am glad I am out whew but I have learned to understand ploys are used by very clever criminals and anything can and will be done for them to be allowed the type of open access they had into peoples lifes in twi. Even run the pfal class, which is where it all started. Everyone had a good laugh with the nut case thread hah boy was't he/she a nutty one hahah I tell some were far more serious than nutty they were and are down right evil preditors... Twi made a home for them and opened up the door for them which became a serious playing field. If God protected you from evil be thankful do not judge me as having some kind of lesser spiritual ability or in the depth knowing revelation . I am reallly angry now and maybe this is a good thing because for all your advanced class **** and waycorps training this was big leadership I am saying and way productions oh how the way corps girls swooned for his abiltiy...to sing those precious songs... everyone loved him. FOr all your dam training you loved him he was in your group and God protected you HMMM??? Well me and my God took him out and put His sorry *** in jail and gave him a record for life hahah I still like my God better than yours anyday , He truly loves me and hears me more than any twi person ever did... all twi people did was kick me out and start another class to feel good about what they accomplished for one another. I am your freaking hero . Jesus Christ is mine. For all you people that want the details so you can talk and compare notes and decide whether it is true or not or who is was or was not. Watch some reality tv or a soap opera show. Funny how I lost the ability to give a cr@p what you freaking think isnt it? I truly heard enough, and paid for loving you enough to think you could also love me more than who was the big shots in the way ministry. you didnt then and you wont now. But you will just spend a few more years talking and wondering about it . and possibly slandering me for the saying of it. I guess we all do what we can. Im proud of myself. I know who delivered me from evil. you seem to want to know who did the evil. funny how it goes like that huh?

hope I think your a powerful force at grease spot because your willing to give your name an history. that is great. I can not and will never say all the story with names. To protect my children . it is just that simple. they have a right to peace and not have what happened to us all over the press. Mine does involve courts and jail and lots of really nasty stuff but i have tried my best to be honest and protect them. I will die some day and whatever I do I do not want to bring them in to stuff now... my older ones would understand but I still have children that would or could be hurt and we frankly do not need to deal with it all over again. Yes I am afraid of what people can and do when ....ed off . I will be honest after all we went through those who spew allegations I do look at close because I feel a bit like a hero sorry if that rides some of you . I am . the cost has been not only my life but others are involved as well . I am angry at times more play victim but wouldnt help the situation. Hope if anyone understands why they didnt it would be me.... but it does not make what we went through any less damaging . I was alone then . I may take it to my grave, I do not know when the time is right I will talk to the others the innocent ones and see if they care but I can not now. so sometimes the proof is not going to be posted on an internet for a reason. if that isnt good enough so be it.

Hope I do not say anyone is lying . Yet consider this when I was marked I actualy had people tell me what happened and why. to me. Hope the story they said was so outrageous it wasnt even remotely close to what actualy happened and why.. I honestly said to one '" EXCUSE ME um you are talking about MY LIFE not someone eles right??? He was trying to convince me the actual person he was talking about what had happened and how..it was different from(mine) the one who had the actual experience . I laughed out loud I couldnt believe how insane they got... FIRST PERSON ME MY LIFE What happened and why ME and he said "no that is not what happened". people got very very insane Hope many would not listen to reason at all. truth was as they see it or hear from another...Reality was shifty at best and often time went with what someone eles may have heard or thought without any base of personal truth..or experience yet it turned into an absolute truth...... for many. it was amazing..... fantastic ****. How do I know they were making up stories and lying? IT WAS MY LIFE they said this and that about and I am not in denial I know How I got marked and avoided . they just thought they knew a story that worked for them and it was ugly and fit with what they wanted to hear to justify thier own position. I am saying HOPE they made it up from the begining to the end and face to face they still clung to it as truth. Regardless of the reality of me saying it was not even close to what happened. Ok? people capable of that type of fantasy , I have no doubt some write at GS as well.... it was a cult people need to think what they need to think was truth HOPE. Believe me that does not mean to me it is the truth of an experience.... or what really happened at all.... people love dirty laudry more than people in the way ministry. and out. If you can believe this I walked away full of love for the guy who marked me, not sexual boy girl love honest respect for the way leadership at the time...and full of love for God and the bible. But a few months later I talked to those still involved and leaders and the story they told of how I was marked was one full of hate and pain. not even close I was out , still loving and blessed , they were 000 in leadership postions and full of lies bold faced lies about me who they had never met, and hate for what happened. It was twisted and sick.... So I have a very difficult time taking anything these posters say just for the words to say it. I know the abuse because I know... I do not even want anyone to believe me, or pity me, or relate to me. I am just glad I was not the only one,(I honestly believed that I was before GS) if others feel better and can help one another that makes Gs a good place. I need no proof, I give no proof not to GS. Yes I think people are capable of huge destructive lies from hell. sadly the abusers and the sudo victims play in the same arena here along with those who are truthful. But that was and is the congregation of twi.... ex or not.

yes Hope At first I didnt want to believe some of the accounts from people. It was sold as an attack from satan for years these accusations needed to be validated by twi or they were an attack to hurt others. which they do Hope when someone says something happens and uses names I feel they have a right to defense. We all know just because someone says something doesnt make it a true statement.. I do not have a right to say they are not true or have proof either.. This isnt a court of law just a forum of people speaking their minds. But some were hurt and want to lash back and people are not always reasonable Hope dealing with what we deal with sometimes. I wont say I believe everything that is said here.at GS I have no reason to think everyone is honest or exactly healthy in their mind sets . Or out to lie and destroy twi or a minister or leader for personal reasons. but I am a horse of a different color, I chose to not blame twi for what people did. I think it created a haven of sorts for abuse and that is why it was so rampant but I do not blame the minstry itself... The cult made people ill . Some came in ill some left ill and getting better means looking at situations honestly which takes a long road. there is alot of the in between here. Denial is a strong word Hope, some did not experience what they read here and do not want to take just an internet word for it. I think that is ok. but they must not stop from the telling of it and they do not for the most part right? they may question but a question doesnt invalidate someone who is accusing somone eles of evil does it? not in my thinking anyway. [This message was edited by mj412 on February 28, 2003 at 16:24.]

Anyone who had success in life was open for it I think. but I never understood it really. God would tell them who was born again of the devil? why? just to let us know and not waste our time witnessing to them or what? Knock knock hello Debra Winger?" I am a cult freak would you like to take a class called power for abundant living?" " by the way I love that move with the officer .. great sex scene in that of course you may fit right in here except for the noble scene with the chick and pregnancy no um wait maybe that will work tooo! What is the point of the information that some one has "the wrong seed" oh please what the hell does that even mean ? wrong seed oh born of the devil o yes sold out to an unworthy cause oh great I do not want to know just never mind...

I am glad I read this.... I was in what you consider twi2 for only a few months ( after being marked in twi1 and on my own for almost ten years)it was too insane for any longer, I spent the whole time getting those I could out of it.... But as you call twi1 which is when vpw was alive and wandering the grounds hahaha anyway... that is when I had my experience of the sexual abuse and it was rapant and serious . I believe it laid out the foundation for whatever the hell happened in LCM day and time ... vpw knew he dam well knew but he had alot more power over the people than lcm ever dreamed of... he could and did have the power to shut us up.... we did try well I did.... and I tell you the only ones who found out how bad it was were the ones who tried to stop it... the rest just rode along in the cult world... till vpw actualy died that is how much power that dude had over his followers not kidding . I do not blame those who didnt speak up in the least the price was way to high and the fun was still being had....love ya man was the ticket .... do not speak evil all of it . some of you will never know how difficult it was. that is why when I read about then and now and 1 and 2 I go a little nuts.... vpw was a freaking KIng to these people lcm not so much.... personly I think it was tights in the show ya know?

That is why I do not have so much angry feelings . The world is full of places and people who abuse others. It doesnt discount what some victims went though but I can not say twi was all bad either. not for me. I could really blame twi for alot of serious pain but I recognize I was in it and why now. I forgive myself to be able to forgive others. all others not just the angry ones.

Oh please with your I love as Christ loves and forgives bull ****..... Sure ya do as long as they are on your list of those that will love you and agree in return. Accountability is what Jesus was and is about, He is a KIng with Justice . Holy Spirit is the comfort. being ok with group think in the name of Jesus Christ I contend is how the cult got so dam established and had the ability to hurt people in the manner it did.

just a note to say I wrote my opion on the 27 years later thread about the choices we did or didnt make. it isnt a popular postion to take responsibility for ones own involvement. Face to face it never happened all these accusations, makes you go hmmm?? why? Attention seeking people love being the victim of circumstances beyond their control and seek those willing to take control of their life. Am I blaming a victim? that will be the next cry. No but I am asking the victim to wonder why it happened to them and why they could not stop it. or it will repeat itself at least in your mind you will continue to be a victim of it. And you will get consoled for it and it will feel like love, and you would do anything to be that accpeted and loved you will belong. Is that not how the very abuse started? Before you rally around and attack me because so many more have a need for this cycle of abuse than not. think. The I am ok it is all about everyone eles and how they hurt me lets get together and show them just how strong the group can be . We can show them can't we ? it isnt at all about personal responsibility, I have friends here that will agree because I am me and I like this way of thinking or do not know any better anyway. I need my friends more than myself and what is good for me help.... so the victim plays out again and seeks the consoling while not even considering why it just keeps happening , why so many evil people are in the world willing to hurt them and their pain........ yes I know the ideals you think work. Did it then? Does it now? When will it stop for you?

Just because we were influenced by what we believed was truth of Gods word taught by a good man.... doesnt mean we lose our ability to draw lines in our own personal life. At one point everyone here has said enough is enough ..... U know I am proud I did what I did I had him arrested. but the cost was great. It was not only about the Leaders giving orders it was about those willing to comply and how far they would go to please someone eles for what ever they got from it They got something dont fool yourself. Something that meant a great deal to them or they would not have done it. I look at people who have the ability to see right from wrong from a human perspective a loving compassionate person would not lead others into torment and pain . I took me 40 years of my life to realize some people are so selfish so selfimportant they can not have empathy or compassion for anyone eles . How blind a person was is truly how used they were is the victims cry of relief yet I submit some dam well knew and didnt care at all it was about them and only them and what they thought would bring them honor, power and a name in the ministry. We are used only as much as we allow others to use us. If it was force and rape then the law could have and should have been involved. Why someone would not meet justice with what is available with the laws today , has to do with the fact they also got something in return they felt was valuable at the time. Rape is different than regret. Maybe he did have sex with young girls but by the age of 18 girls know what sex is even if they had not participated in it personly. Many girls are manipulated and it is wrong, but the blame game goes back to the parents not teaching the girl about sex or the girl thinking sex will bring her something it did not . At any time they could have reached other sources outside of the way or I dare say even within by not complying and saying no. If you continue to believe it was rape truly with no consent than press legal charges... No the thing is they say they were coerced ok well that will not end for young pretty girls since the beginning of time... vpw victims are not alone in this fact of life. Be angry you allowed it to happen but remember rape is not regret.... if it was rape than I suggest the reason you didnt press charges and take action to stop being abused has alot more to do with your own problems on a personal level than any man who took advantage of it. I know this will not make me popular. with the gs crowd but if you were not grown up then grow up now and look to see why it happened TO you . When you consent to sex whether you regret it later or not it is not rape. It is not child molesting when a person is 18 years old,because our society has legal laws that we can use to stop that behaviour, if your werent "strong enough" or manipulated to believing it was what you were suppose to do that would be your problem as well as the other party. Unless we are talking about a retarded child unable to accept responsibilities for their choices it is clear to me it does indeed take two to tangle. No one was beat into submission no one had a gun to their head and infact many thought they would recieve great rewards for participating. regret is not rape sure it is wrong to take advantage of others, to use a title as a power play, it is also wrong to believe the victims didnt want an advantage of their own by complying with the wishes of who ever they thought they could use. If you were to young to know all about how the world works then accept that as part of where you were at and be thankful you learned many in life never do. I believe the reason many didnt complain and the arrest records never hint any illegal activity is because it did take two. Remember the law suits were CIVIL not crimminal. a big difference . [This message was edited by mj412 on February 19, 2003 at 8:00.]

thanks man I thought it was going to go the way of yes we need conseling and understanding and family first ideals of the 80's. Yes. The problem is it forces you to remove yourself from "family". the only source of love you have ever known. Tis a life long sentence tho.... denial, enabling and circular behaviours are rampant in disfunctional families. To be alone in a world without a clue how to function without them is not easy either. Leaves you wide open for cult influence you see one that talks of unconditional love ...etc. I believe the way want these wounded souls in the ranks or in the least ended up with many many of them from the victims to those who victimized. It was a haven for both for different reasons.

yes indeed dot Yet it has to stop and years ago the laws didnt have a clue of the damage that was done. Now we understand. it has to stop. make an example of my child no one wants to accept that on a personal level Yet it has to stop and this is the only way if you truly believe that is WHY they molest. I do not think that is the reason in many cases. and also if that theory is so true the victims or girls have to be accountable to being atracted to molesters as well . I am not into these cut and dry this is because of that reasoning. but if you are then admit it has to stop some where.

I think 18 -19 is not old enough to make decision that are well rounded. I think we all lived those years and many of us couldnt have been told any different being of "adult" age so we thought. What bothers me is the way really trashed a parents authority and made it more difficult for parents to parent the teens that were involved. How does that bring harmony in the home as displayed on the green card? The discounted "the home" the family totaly unless they were involved with twi, and these were young kids.... man it was so wrong.

they should have a leash law for freaking cats. they do spray the neighborhood they walk around all day and spray away the cars the proches and they bring disease to the pet cats in the yards. but they take care of the mice , so maybe not. The cat and birds were friends honestly the bird would land on the cat and she didnt bother with him for 8 years... till the mood swing day... We were all stunned.. couldnt believe it.

if they were involved in way productions or had sucked up to leaders in some way it sure did . that is why I was marked . I told a truth with proof about some one in way productions and also friends with the LC, a personal experience that happened and he admited to me. I was marked and avoided for it. To even begin to admit it to the followers at that time would have been to many questions and farther disclosures so shut me up quick right now. funny tho I didnt hate the guy I just wanted help for him and his problem, I didnt think that would happen to me or I would not have told at all. Many did not afterwhat happened to me and the creeps had a free reign . the worst part of all? was the phone calls the endless phone calls from other people who knew what I knew and told me how sorry they were yet they couldn't/ wouldnt say it to anyone eles but ... you know I cried with them and truly understood why at the time. those phone calls have eoched in my ears for twenty years .. try "renewing your mind to that!" it was a cult.

I took pfal, because I was a "believer". It was sold to people interested in learning truths remember? But actualy what I think happened was "friends and family members" became twi. People began complaining about folks and lines were drawn on who liked who and who didnt like who . those in control by that time had serious issues and didnt want to be questioned on their own personal life or when bold face lies and areas of doctrines were taught people didnt want to figure out a way to get out of the reality . so they began this unbelieving believers stuff. I remember that. that is how I knew it turned into a cult really it was absolutely out of control like teenage girls in the potty wispering about the boys etc. Elite few meant those who would do anything to keep the lies going....by that time they had no will of a life outside of the way so it was turned into a them and us thing. how can anyone doubt it was a cult? I knew God loved everyone and wanted to save every creature. but the way did not want to help that ideal they wanted it to be a inner circle of power and control. By this time they had enough money to get rid of those that didnt agree. I have seen many folks willing to allow others dictate to them in many areas of life, it is easier you know to not take the responsibility for your life , to never make a mistake without back up reason, that leaves you innocent and feeling worthy . I see it al the time but I do not understand it. i would rather die with amistake of my own than be hurting others and think I am ok and good. twi taught me alot about humans nature and the need to be loved by God and others... and it isnt prety I say.

not any amount of money . He is my friend and I think he likes me, and she is like a mom cares about things around here in the house. I am used to them , well maybe, NO I woldnt do it. maybe for a few days if I knew they were safe and sound . but not forever. ok ok if it was a relative and I could see them alot .