CoolWaters
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Posts posted by CoolWaters
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I'm pretty sure that most extwi folks would donate something. Beyond donations, if a 501©3 were formed then other funding sources could be utilized. There is a big push at the Fed level for faith-based recovery programs. (Being faith-based does not mean that the recipients would be required to participate in any religious training or activities.)
There will be an immediate culture shock when first coming out of twi, but remember that all of us here did OK. It's not advisable to create another dependency situation...and it is human nature to do better when relying upon oneself. I think that a couple of weeks of recuperation and adjustment would be acceptable. If people need more than that, there are other programs in nearly every community. Also, there are always small hotels in every town that are struggling and will work with an organization on weekly and monthly rates.
As for jobs/income, part of the structure of the organization might ought to include partnerships with businesses that would agree to hire and train (if needed) folks. OJT is a big tax reduction for businesses...especially if the person hired is low- to moderate-income because the employer pays only half of the taxes for the first year.
And there's no need to re-invent the wheel...there are many, many programs already in place to help people in such situations. Pride may keep people from utilizing such programs, but the programs available include assistance with medical, housing, food, training/re-training, day care, transportation (most programs include repair and gasoline monies...some will even buy a vehicle), etc. Welfare is simply no longer a hand-out program...if an adult is not working, an adult is spending 40 hours a week looking for work either by hitting the streets or at Job Service centers preparing resumes, setting interview appointments, increasing skills, taking classes, or what have you. The follow-up to ensure that a person is doing these things is intense...there's no getting around it without having your benefits immediately stopped. Some of the best entry level jobs in an area go to welfare-to-work participants.
Whatever type of effort comes from all of this, I think that the most effective will be an organization that will pull together all of a community's resources.
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Dammit! Panty raids were the only thing I had on my "safe" list. Oh the denial I've been so blind to! Sigh.
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I held on to the PFAL teachings for many, many years. Then when I awakened, I tossed out everything...even the idea of Jesus Christ.
Now that I can look at things without needing them to be word-for-word TRUTH of GOD, I find that there were things in PFAL that are what I consider to be universally applicable...in moderation.
Some examples:
- I no longer think that believing=receiving, but I do think that it is simpler to reach a goal if I can visualize it happening.
- I no longer believe that "fear is the sand in the machinery of life", but I do think that one must learn to differentiate between founded fears and unfounded fears...and that one must also learn to function without the fear being the determining factor.
- I no longer believe that figures of speech make something "truer than true", but I do think that using a figure of speech can communicate an idea more effectively.
- I feel that "Receive, Retain, Release" is a basic tenet of learning.
- I no longer believe that there are "5 things to know before receiving anything from God", but I do think that some of those items are things it makes sense to consider when making certain decisions...like what's available, how to receive it, what to do with it after you've got it, and getting your needs and wants parallel when buying a car or choosing a college.
Basically, now that I've removed the religion, I am able to utilize some basic principles that appear universally in just about every "success" program...and I can admit that if I hadn't run into PFAL, I'd probably have become a Tony Robbins junkie for awhile...(and don't tell anybody, but I've kept all of his material...
:D--> 
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NP. I'm not sure about your ISP...check it out before you take my word for it...I don't know everything...lol
If you do the unix version of the web hosting, it's the easiest, imo...it's also what I have, so I can help with any questions. LOL
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You know, if you ask the universe a question, it will give you the answer. Sometimes even if you don't ask...
After re-reading my post, I realize that I do understand what I said I didn't understand...because I did it to someone back on trance.chat...
Although I have apologized for that many times before...now I really get it what I did...and I apologize from the bottom of my heart...with understanding this time.
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simon,
TYVM. As I said before, my reactions were primarily due to me being defensive...no real offense committed by anyone. And, shoot, I've derailed plenty of threads in my day...
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Johnny,
I didn't think you felt that the situation was abuse...that was my take on it. Sorry I wasn't clear about that.
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JT,
TYVM for sharing. I'm sorry that happened to you, and I understand the sarcasm.
:D-->**************
Dot,
Yes....exactly the kind of thing I was thinking about when starting this thread.
TYVM for posting!
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ExC,
I knew you'd understand...I learned it from you.
:D--> mwah!****************
Abi,
More of some of my exact thoughts when I started this thread.
TYVM!
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Now that I've had a chance to back away from the emotions of the topic, I've also had a chance to realize that the topic cannot be pinned down to just one question or just one discussion.
Sometimes talking about everything else but the "topic" is the first step in getting around to the "topic". Ya know?
These things are difficult to talk about.
It's even more difficult if one must endure blame and shame...again.
Having worked with abuse survivors for most of my life, I can say absolutely that there is no concrete definition of abuse. The argument can rage on and on, but there will be no "Aha!" moment of definition.
Remember, we're talking sexual abuse. At least half of the reason that abuse is so hard to define is because the victims don't really know where the line is drawn...until it happens. One of my posts on ExC's "adultery vs soul stealing" thread ( http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=9...2135#1646092135 ) goes into a partial explanation about this and says in part:
quote:
Does that mean that I have been a willing participant? Does that mean that it has all been consensual? Does that mean that because I initiated it, I wanted sex?NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!
If I "like" something because I fear the alternative, that is not being a willing participant...that is passivity.
If I give in because I fear the alternative, that is not consent...that is coercion
If I seek it out because I know no other way to find comfort, that not sexuality...that is palliative.
The rest of the post is worth reading...especially when it comes to "defining" abuse.
All this being said, one of the very most disturbing things I have seen happen here is...
A person posts his/her story and defines it as abuse. The pain is obvious. Sometimes the guilt and the shame are obvious. Often it is obvious that the person is still not totally "over it".
Then along come the blamers...the ones who have to drive the dagger deeper into the heart by repeating the very things that were said to cover up the crap in the first place...and the ones who will argue their position without really reading or considering any other post, much less the post of the person they are torturing.
That's the hardest thing for me to cope with here.
I don't understand why any person would feel the need to make things even more painful.
I don't understand how any person can read the documents here, read all of the stories here, see the hearts and lives that were shredded, and still want to carry water for the good ol' boys and girls who made it all so bad.
And I don't like to see people hurt all over again.
Some day I may find a way to get beyond these things...but something in me doesn't really want to get beyond being appalled and offended at cold-hearted callousness.
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I don't mind if you link to my images. As long as I don't go over my allotment, there's no problem.
That's not to say everybody go for it! LOL For very cheap web hosting I use http://www.hostdepartment.com/index.html#orderhosting
Most ISP web space provided does not allow remote linking, but if you want help with trying it out, I will be glad to help.
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Mike,
Thank you.
Please know that my jumping on you wasn't about you in particular. I was in defense mode...so I was jumping on everybody. Nothing personal (to you or OM or Long Gone or anyone else), although I'm sure it felt personal.
I can't get into the abuse discussions for very long because I tend to relive some situations when I hear some phrases or "buzz words". That's on me. I know to back out before I get like that. I just didn't do it soon enough this time.
Have a great day.
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Long Gone,
OK.
I'm backing out of the topic and other such topics for a little while...I'm getting too defensive.
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Oh geeze, Mike. I'm sorry.
Sigh.
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Edited because I was such a beavis...
[This message was edited by CoolWaters on January 31, 2004 at 20:41.]
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UNCLE!!!!!!!!!!!
Nevermind.
Who in the hell is going to post their experiences knowing that there's folks waiting in the wings to jump on them?
Is that you all's point?
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Sigh.
The raging debates over what does and does not constitute abuse have been had over and over here. Nobody agrees. So what? That doesn't change what a person went through or how their lives were hurt.
I was hoping that some men would want to talk about what happened to them...or how they felt about what happened to those they knew/loved.
Arguing the point is not what I was looking for here.
So, Long Gone, do you have a story of your own sexual abuse in twi? That is the topic of this thread.
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OM...do you have a story of your own sexual abuse in twi? That is the topic of this thread.
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The choices I have used here are paraphrases of things I have heard or read men say.
Galen, I am sure that being in the military made things very different.
Defining abuse...well...that's something that usually nobody agrees upon.
I do consider that others who may not have been the direct victim are still victims. It's like dropping a rock into water...the ripples radiate out and get bigger.
Thank you all so much for your input. Society does not often consider men victims...which makes it very difficult for men to come forward and heal.
After reading some responses made by men concerning sexual abuse in twi, it dawned on me that perhaps the callous and cruel attitudes could be considered another result of the abuse.
One of the reasons I started this thread was to look at the depth of the damage done. When any sort of abuse is allowed as the norm, the whole group is affected one way or another. If someone did not know, see or experience anything, he/she was still affected even if only because a victim would not turn to him/her because of fear.
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It's me...I am the all time thread killer. Honest.
:D--> -
Oh man, vickles...that's terrible cruelty!
Because of heredity and a botched IUD job, I had a hard time conceiving after my daughter was born. When I did conceive, I couldn't carry the child past the first 8 weeks.
For 8 years my hubs and I tried and tried to have a child together. I got "ministered" to many, many times. Usually I was told to relax and let nature take its course.
Then in Alaska I had 3 "mogs" tell me that I would never have another child...that "god" had better plans for my life.
I didn't believe them because I had had a dream about a 4yo little boy that was me and my husband's child. So we kept trying.
Less than a year after the last time a "mog" told me I'd never have another child again, I was pregnant. We didn't tell anybody until the 2nd trimester. Just in case...ya know?
When we told the limb leader of Alaska (G*** K***), he denounced the child in my womb as an "ill-gotten child of satan". Of course the other "leadership" in Alaska felt the same way.
That child is now 17yo. He has been nothing but a great joy to me and my husband. In fact, we often wonder if he is our child at all...that maybe he is an under cover angel or something.
:)--> He's never been in trouble. He's very respectful and easy-going. He's brilliant beyond our comprehension. He's a healing presence in many, many lives. He's just plain unbelieveable.I'm so glad we didn't listen to the MOG...!
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I have a question about SIT...
How come interpretation is needed?
The first incident of tongues recorded in the KJV includes this verse: "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language" (Acts 2:6)
Sure Paul goes into "instructions", but those are ambiguous and pretty skimpy for something that we've been led to believe is such a big deal...and with no other scriptural support, Paul's "instructions" depart completely from the original experience.
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Starting this thread so as not to derail Linda Z's thread any further...
Men are victims of sexual abuse, too. Johnny Lingo talked about a situation he experienced in twi.
I feel that the "encouraged" abortions were a form of sexual abuse...and that fathers of the aborted babies were victims as well as the mothers.
I also feel that the husbands, boyfriends, fathers, brothers, etc of exploited and abused women were also victims.
Are there other male victims of twi's sexual abuse? If so, does anybody want to talk about it?
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Dot,
The woman who was to go into the corpse with her hubs...
Good for her husband!
But what happens to the wife whose husband is a yesman? She gets needled and bullied by both "leadership" and her husband. She's pregnant (a perfectly legitimate state of being in a marriage, btw)...her emotions are tied to her hormones that are out of whack...she loves god...she loves "the word"...she loves her husband...she wants the child...but "it" is just a bunch of cells that most probably popped up due to a "trick by the adversary" to get her to turn against god, "the word" and her husband. Those "cells" haven't made themselves known yet...there's no movement or any visible signs of "life"...even "the word" says "it" is not "alive" yet...
So here's her choice: turn against god, "the word" and her husband or rid herself of a nuisance that was probably put there by "the adversary".
Yeah...there's a question in my mind about just what is behind the lack of simple human understanding concerning this...and in my mind it's more to do with guilt...especially when a "hypothetical" (yeah...right...me thinks the man doth protest too much) situation gets tossed into the discussion to confuse the point...
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rascal, I did a PT to you.
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OM, the questions are rhetorical to you...because you never had to face such a situation and you never will have to face such a situation.
I've often wondered if you have any compassion at all in yourself...but then I've often wondered if your constant blame the victim mentality is a cover for your guilt at what you've done to people in the name of "the ministry"...and then I find myself wondering if this is just a game to you...a way to entertain yourself.
BTW...
NOBODY is EVER ready for parenthood with a first child...and if you have ever been an honest parent, you would have to admit this...
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papajohn,
I am more than just interested. I would be happy to help however is needed. I, too, have extensive experience with 501©3 organizations. In fact, I am setting up a new one right now.
I think 'net meetings are probably the best way to go about things for now. However I also think that it needs to be done in a less public arena such as AOL messenger chat or something like that. Heck, the PT's here should be private enough...shouldn't they?
I'm still very leery of an actual house for the reasons I stated above, but I will help no matter what the decision.
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TY Psalmie.
:D-->Most emoticons are gathered from the 'net via freebie collections...and nobody really knows who owns what or what originated where. So "netiquette" here is pretty much if it's there, it's open to use unless otherwise stated.
To grab an image from these pages:
- hover your cursor over the image:
[This message was edited by CoolWaters on January 06, 2004 at 20:41.]
- hover your cursor over the image:
How do YOU do the first commandment?
in About The Way
Posted
Great question! (At first I thought it was going to be a thread about how someone keeps away from idolotry. Glad it wasn't!) I've often wondered about this, too. I mean, seriously, if one is talking about the Creator, what can one do to show love to such a being?
From all of my looking into other religions, I have found that most agree on how to do this. The bible puts it pretty simply, so I'll use the bible here.
So, in answer to the question, I show my love for the One by taking care of people to the best of my ability.