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CoolWaters

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    Shelter for Folks Leaving the Way-Transition House

    in Getting help for cult dysfunction

    Posted

    Based upon my experience with 501©3 organizations (about 17+ years), I would like to recommend that people look at setting up a fund.

    A specific location is almost out of the question, imo, simply because of the logistics involved. There would have to be full time staff (maintenance and grounds people, manager, etc), transportation to and from the location, insurance out the ying yang (not just typical homeowner's insurance, either), city (possibly county and state as well) permits would have to be obtained and zoning may have to be changed. Anything done needing government involvement would most likely come with required public hearings as well. Often there are requirements that include showing what kind of rules and guidelines will be used to guarantee to the neighbors that the house will not become a nuisance. Then, of course, a board of directors would be needed...which would then require knowing the open meetings rules of the area. Lots of things to think about when operating a 501©3 that involves a specific housing location.

    However, a fund that can be administered via the internet would be a terrific option. The board could meet via many internet options. The funds could be transferred via many internet options. People needing the assistance would be connected to people in the area either willing to open their own homes or help find housing in the area. It takes the burden of day-to-day responsibility off of the organization's shoulders...and it gives the recipients the opportunity to de-institutionalize themselves.

    And one more thing a fund could do...

    It could simply make monetary awards to organizations already in existence.

    Just some thoughts...for what they're worth.

    Why some people don't get the abuse stories

    in About The Way

    Posted

    Johnny,

    I don't have all of the details...and really don't want to have anymore details than I already have...but RU being in the military at the time was a twist that I've not been able to untangle. Maybe it's an old-time "don't ask, don't tell" situation? I dunno. SU's involvement? I don't want know that, either. Remember, the information I have is partially coming from those who were at HQ at the time. Who knows how much those people knew...or how much of that information was devised and/or tainted.

    My purpose for even discussing the situation anymore is to demonstrate the depth of twi's taint...and to demonstrate how such things stay hidden.

    Why are Wierwille's Sins Excuseable and Martindale's Not?

    in About The Way

    Posted

    {{{{{valerie}}}}}

    Lucky for you that you hadn't lost all ability/willingness to listen when the alarms sounded.

    If you don't mind...

    What do you think now of that girl who stayed the night then? Do you think that she thought you had done "it" with vpw? Do you think that maybe she figured if she didn't do "it", too, that you'd be part of the shunning and shaming?

    It's very interesting to look at situations again after the twi-colored glasses have been removed...or at least cleaned.

    Why some people don't get the abuse stories

    in About The Way

    Posted

    (This post may seem like a derailment...but I don't feel that it is...because the denial is why some people don't get the abuse stories.)

    Johnny Lingo,

    That whole situation in Alaska is one of the saddest experiences I have ever had. The LC at the time had been a BC in Topeka, Kansas. He screwed up there, too. If I had listened to his "wisdom" in Kansas, I would be dead from HIV complications right along with my ex husband. Because we (my current hubs and I) knew him from Kansas, we knew not to listen to him in Alaska...so we turned to HQ for help. I still have the letters DM and LCM wrote back to me. Their words "blessed" me at the time...but they did nothing to help those children.

    Johnny, many of us tried to help those children in Alaska. My daughter and I lived with one of the families for awhile...and we still cope with what happened.

    I will tell you that at least 3 of the children involved then who are adults today want nothing to do with "god" or religion.

    I will also tell you that the folks running that "fellowship" did not start off "good" and "go bad"...they knew exactly what they wanted to run a "children's fellowship" for...and had been removed from other areas for doing the same thing...and were put in Alaska by HQ to cover tracks in the lower 48.

    2 years after the fact of the arrests, I contacted that LC and asked him what he was going to do to in an effort to set things straight for the families of those children...you know...like paying for the therapy or at least acknowledging his part in it all. Know what he said? He said he was going to "work with the U******s to see that their lives are blessed". I asked him what about all of the children and their families? He said, "They are not my responsibility." I asked him if he still thought me and my family were "seed boys". He said he didn't know what I was talking about. I asked him if he still thought my son was "ill-gotten by the seed of satan". He said he never said exactly that...that I had misunderstood him. A few years ago when I found out he was out of twi, I contacted him. He was still calling me "devil spirit influenced" and trying to rebuke me in the name of JC yada yada yada.

    From about 1997-2001, I was involved in an offshoot church occasionally attended by one of the men who ran a twig in Alaska during that time. He was the first one in Anchorage to dub our family "seed boys" and prophesy our deaths. (Yeah, Johnny, in response to us trying to do something to help the children, 3 "men of god" in Alaska actually prophesied our deaths...right down to date, time and cause. Obviously they were wrong.) Know what? When I finally told him that we knew him from Alaska, he said he didn't remember us! He got on one knee before me and said, "If I did anything to hurt you or your family, I humbly apologize." He did it in front of several people, including the pastors of the church. When I tried to express my utter disgust with him, the pastors got between us and began harping at me to forgive.

    Sad thing is, I let those pastors do that...and I took on that freak's guilt...letting myself believe that it was my unforgiveness that was the problem...and a short time later, one of those pastors told me that the reason my husband had cancer and had been in a nearly fatal car accident was because my life was s*it.

    I am now M&A from that offshoot church. Boo hoo.

    My points, Johnny, are:

    • All the time I was telling myself that I was doing something good by "working within God's family", I was buying into the dysfunction. It was not until I went outside of twi and told the proper authorities about what was happening in "children's fellowship" that I did any real good.
    • Many of those involved in "protecting" perpetrators or covering-up the situation still believe they were right.
    • What happened in Alaska was not isolated. HQ had put the ring-leader in Alaska in an attempt to keep twi out of legal trouble in the lower 48 because of the same problems perpetrated by many of the same people.
    • Once released from prison, the ring-leader was accepted back into twi with open arms.
    • Because I told the proper authorities what was going on, I am considered the "evil" one...even to this very day.

    In the face of such evidence, Johnny, I have been forced to take a long, hard look at everything I ever learned from twi. And when I did that, I found out that everything I learned from twi was tainted. But most importantly, I learned that from the beginning I knew there was something terribly wrong...and I chose to ignore or rationalize away the signs.

    Reading this thread, it is obvious to me that twi perpetuated itself by teaching and expecting a state of constant denial.

    Why some people don't get the abuse stories

    in About The Way

    Posted

    Johnny Lingo...

    My post was a direct response to diazbro's...particularly the part about staying in the dysfunction.

    I am very glad that I took PFAL. BUT, the idea that I should have made PFAL a lifestyle and should have clung to "the ministry that taught me the 'word'" was insanity, imo...especially when I fell into discounting the abuse I heard about, eye-witnessed and experienced.

    Why some people don't get the abuse stories

    in About The Way

    Posted

    quote:
    Originally posted by diazbro:

    But to remain in the dysfunctional

    organization ,especially with that knowledge, is to be personally dysfunctional.....

    Exactly.

    For me (remember I said for me and am not daring to speak for or of anyone else here), the question of "why did you stay so long" is answered with, "because I was just as dysfunctional as the organization".

    quote:
    For many it was their first experience with any type of deliberate self improvement and VPW seemed an particularly

    able guru.

    Yep.

    quote:
    If some of these people

    would share their knowledge and admit what many of us already know (that their primary loyalties

    were to VPW over and above anyhting else)

    then it would enable lots of people to resolve

    longstanding issues and make TWI accountable

    for its poor treatment of people who helped

    to make it rich.

    Somewhere in my head I'm waiting for this...

    quote:
    Some have the mentality

    that if they met even one nice person while in

    TWI then its *because* of TWI. Plenty of soldiers made good friends on the battlefield

    but I bet they are more than happy to take

    that freindship to some place less dangerous.

    I feel/felt the same way about TWI - it was

    a hellish place and I can separate some of

    the good people from that organization.

    Yeah.

    The worst for me is when I figure that "god" put me in twi to meet those good people...that I am alive today because "god" intervened on my behalf and sent me to twig.

    What a crock. What kind of insanity is it to serve a "god" that has no other way to work than to draw people into dysfunction of the nth degree?

    adultery vs. soul stealing

    in About The Way

    Posted

    {{{{{ExC}}}}}

    {{{{{Dot}}}}}

    You two...and many others here...are just so very special to me. I'm very glad to be a part of such discussions.

    These kind of discussions are needed. There's always somebody out there lurking who is going through something similar...who needs to know they aren't freaks...who needs to know that telling and talking about it all is OK...who needs to have a safe atmosphere in which to tell and talk.

    It's been a long time coming...this type of discussion...but it's here...and somebody we don't even know exists is getting something very powerful and good and healing from it. Yay!

    Why some people don't get the abuse stories

    in About The Way

    Posted

    Linda Z,

    You have always been fair and even-handed to me. You've done your best to see both sides of the situation and to find the "coming together" point. I have the utmost respect for you.

    It's good to talk about how information is "heard". I always feel like a freak when I share certain things because those certain things are freaky...ya know? I assume that nobody really believes me...because nobody ever really did...and because such things are just plain difficult for the mind to comprehend.

    I was going to post this on the other thread but that thread was going in such wild directions I just didn't feel like it was worth my time. Your level honesty here feels more like a discussion.

    Anyway, when I first came to an excult message board, my very first post was in defense of vpw. It was one of those, "He was a human being. He's dead and cannot defend himself. Get on with your lives. Apply the knowledge and forgive the man...yada...yada...yada..." posts.

    VPW never did anything wrong to me and mine. In fact, he took my defense on more than one occasion...and on those occasions, had it not been for his involvement, things would have been a whole lot worse for me and my children. He was truly the loving father figure I so desperately wanted in my life.

    PFAL was the answer to all of my life's problems. It gave me a way to control my mind. It gave me a way cope with panic attacks and ptsd episodes. It gave me a reason to quit trying to kill myself. It taught me that I was worthy of something.

    So all of the allegations I was reading on the message board were just plain unbelievable to me. Not only had I idealized vpw, I hated wc folks because I fully believed that it was the wc folks who screwed up vpw's beloved ministry. (I even wrote many letters to vpw begging him to do away with wc.) It seemed that all of the allegations being made on the message board were wc folks. I had seen what wc had done in the field...and I believed that they would stoop to anything to keep themselves blameless...including lying about vpw.

    Posters on that board tried to point me to Juedes site. Well...Juedes is trinitarian...which automatically made him a "devil spirit infested" liar in my mind.

    Nothing changed my mind until I got to know a poster by the handle of MIMITATE.

    One of her posts hit me in the gut so hard that I could no longer deny the reality of vpw's lecherous appetite.

    I emailed her. She was very kind and patient with me. For about 2 years she and I discussed many things via private email. Everything she told me rang true to what I knew was the "typical" story of sexual abuse perpetrators and victims.

    She also knew "Marsha" personally...and shared with me things that she had eye-witnessed. The way she said these things...the feelings she described...the cunning manipulations she and others she knew were subject to...the actual scenarios she described...these things were very familiar to me from my childhood. I knew that she was not lying to me.

    But I still felt it was all very isolated...I still didn't grasp the enormity of it all.

    It was very difficult for me to reconcile in my mind that vpw or lcm were the monsters people were making them out to be...because the majority of the people who were making the accusations seemed to be just as monstrous. I just could not accept that things were not being purposefully blown way out of proportion.

    Then ExC started sharing her experiences. There was no doubt in my mind that ExC was telling the truth.

    It took GSCI to come along before I began to trust that the majority of the stories had any validity.

    People seemed to begin to get more honest on GSCI.

    And I had grown. And others had grown. It just seemed that more of the honesty of the situation was coming out...less of the reactionary feelings.

    Now here on GSCII there's a marked determination to actually explore what happened...look at things from all sides...define the lines in the sand that were always moving in twi...take a non-twi-influenced look at things.

    I guess what I'm trying to say here is that the progression from trance.chat to WayDale to GSCI and now GSCII is one of growth...for me and for everyone else...and that it took that growth to open my eyes.

    adultery vs. soul stealing

    in About The Way

    Posted

    ExC (and others who have been hurt),

    Today is the first time I've read this thread...and I've read only the first seven pages and this last page...because I don't want to go "back" in my memory so much right now...but I want to say some things...

    I wish I could cradle you and comfort you forever.

    I'm proud of you for being so brave here.

    Yes, it's soul stealing.

    Taken from http://www.soulretrieval.com/ :

    quote:
    When a person suffers from a physical or psychological trauma, a part(s) of the soul splits off (psychologists refer to this as disassociation) and finds a haven in one of the realms of non-ordinary reality. Splitting off is a protective measure that helps one survive what happened. Examples are severe accidents, abuse, witness to death and destruction.

    Taken from http://www.worldtrans.org/TP/TP1/TP1-111.HTML :

    quote:
    Specifically traumatic incidents are intertwined with the loss of soul parts. A traumatic incident might have forced the person to split up and might keep her from being whole again. It is quite typical that part of the person leaves during an incident.

    Taken from http://www.angelfire.com/moon/fae/Soul_Retrieval.html :

    quote:
    There are many ways, and there are many reasons for soul loss. The Soul is very delicate, It is your emotional center. When a child suffers abuse whether it is emotional, physical or sexual, and he or she has no defense and nowhere to escape to, it is the Soul that runs away. When the abuse is constant, piece after piece will break away. Over time this will lead to a feeling of, 'being outside of your self', having no 'will', like you are living your life in a 'dream', feeling 'disconnected' to yourself and your emotions.

    OK...here's some hard stuff for me...probably others, too...

    Being sexually abused is very different from being abused in any other way. It's not "worse", so don't get me wrong on that count. It's just different. I think it's because everybody knows that physical, emotional, mental and verbal abuse are wrong and aren't things that are part of "normal". Sex, however, is a "normal" part of being an "adult". How and when does it become abuse? The confusion about it all makes sexual abuse hard to comprehend...for victims as much as anyone else.

    Something I'm dealing with right now in my life is this...

    My whole definition of myself as a sexual being has been determined by someone else since I was 4yo. How do I know what I want and don't want...like and don't like?

    As a child, I liked not being hit or ridiculed or demonized...so I quit telling and I quit crying about it and I quit fighting them off.

    As an adult, I liked not being hit or ridiculed or demonized...so I "gave it up"...either immediately or when I had finally had enough of the other stuff.

    As a child...

    I learned that giving into sex was the way to survive.

    I also learned to define "good" sex and "bad" sex. If the person performing sex on me was nice to me (never hurt me otherwise), it was "good" sex. If the person performing sex on me was mean to me (beat me, ridiculed me, demonized me), it was "bad" sex.

    I had both types of sex performed on me.

    I learned to "like" "good" sex...it had become comforting in a way that can be understood only by someone who had to allow sex to survive.

    I eventually learned to seek out the comfort of "good" sex.

    As an adult...

    It hasn't been much different for me.

    Does that mean that I have been a willing participant? Does that mean that it has all been consensual? Does that mean that because I initiated it, I wanted sex?

    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!

    If I "like" something because I fear the alternative, that is not being a willing participant...that is passivity.

    If I give in because I fear the alternative, that is not consent...that is coercion

    If I seek it out because I know no other way to find comfort, that not sexuality...that is palliative.

    My only two New Year's Resolutions this year are:

    • I will be a shaman unto myself and retrieve myself completely.
    • I will keep myself whole.

    Happy New Year.

    Main Pages

    in Forum Questions and tips

    Posted

    I can't access the main forum pages today. I get a "that page is not available" error message. The only way I can access the forums at all is to click on the link in the notifications emailed to me. Once I get here, I can run around in a specific forum, but I cannot access any other forums...unless I have an email notification about a topic in a specific forum.

    Paw...have I been bad? LMAO! anim-smile.gificon_wink.gif;)-->

    How come it was so different?

    in About The Way

    Posted

    Tom Strange,

    I read your response yesterday and have thought about it ever since.

    I was a very scared, very hurt, very lost 16yo girl when I first encountered twi. The first branch I was involved with was a "free love" and "blow your mind" type of branch. I got sex, drugs, rock and roll, and being justified all in one fell swoop. They told me my parents were "devilish". What scared, hurt and lost 16yo wouldn't have become addicted to such an organization?

    **********************

    ExC,

    Yeah...

    Thank you! You too!

    **********************

    Linda,

    You hit the nail on the head when you said, "...whether we felt comfortable telling them to buzz off when they tried to impose stupid, legalistic do's and don'ts on us."

    That is what I'm talking about when I talk about "the elite". As a lowly twigite, I never felt comfortable speaking up to my "leadership"...it just wasn't allowed without some horrible repercussions. I felt that if I had planned to take the AC, go WOW or corpse, or had aspired to the higher echelons of twi, I would not have met with such disdain for asking questions or having my own mind. But since I was happy to be a twiggie and nothing else, I was considered spiritually immature and was not to be trusted with "deeper truths".

    Perhaps that's the answer to my question.

    Thank you for the warm wish! Back atcha! icon_biggrin.gif:D-->

    *******************

    NoWay,

    Nobody knows what's best for your life but you. Do what your heart tells you to do. If you are wrong, then you will have learned something. If you are right, then you will have gained confidence.

    But if you act on what someone else tells you for your life and it turns out wrong, then all you can do is blame and wonder. If it turns out OK, then all you can do is become more dependant upon them and lose self-confidence...it will make you into a puppet very quickly!

    ***********************

    Dovey,

    I got no good advice in twi...none.

    cwxmassig.jpg

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