WordWolf

The context was caring about the crimes vpw committed- "his lying his plagiarism his abuses both sexual and mental" You don't care about THAT. You even quoted that YOURSELF. If you have a strong emotional response about US trade relations, it's irrelevant to the discussion. Everybody cares about SOMETHING (DUUUUHHHH), but not all care about vpw's abuses and crimes. "Attempts to put us under law" must be Johniam speak for "trying to get us to see that it was wrong for vpw to plagiarize, rape, drug and rape, and aid and abet others in raping." Johniam has a non-standard use of language. (Either that, or his reading comprehension and my reading comprehension skills are translating this thread into completely different things. The first mention of the law was by me AFTER he posted this, and it was the laws of the US, which he is subject to anyway as a US citizen (even prison inmates who rejected them are STILL subject to them), and nobody ever mentioned the law as it applies to JOHN- just how it would-and should- apply to vpw, who broke them and conspired elaborately to cover up his tracks completely. It was a brilliant piece of work. It takes a fair degree of intelligence- and a complete absence of conscience- to set up the system vpw did and keep it running so well that decades later, some people can still call vpw's victims LIARS when they say what vpw did, and eyewitnesses LIARS when they say what they saw vpw do.

Be thankful to God you were overlooked or not chosen to be included. Or a guy. Jesus, and he's not particularly fond of people who cause his little ones to stumble.Better than man not have been born than he do that, that's what my Lord said. I'm inclined to consider Jesus an authority on the subject. Right. That's plagiarism-which is a legal crime and a moral wrong. It is deceptive, prideful, lazy, and criminal. If vpw had cited his sources for the material, it would have been perfectly fine.He knew EXACTLY where he got it all. WE found out decades later, and it wouldn't have been so impossible for US to cite them. He CHOSE not to for his own reasons, and that is morally wrong, and criminally wrong. Fraud is a felony in the US of A. Jesus didn't claim credit for writing the Torah. Please stop fogging the issue.The quality of the material has nothing to do with it being stolen. "Truth from the pen of a plagiarist is still truth."-Raf. None of us claims the theft affects the material itself in any substantial manner. I agree. If vpw were alive and anyone questioned him, he would SCREAM at them AT HIGH VOLUME- which he did when alive. You left out the OTHER things he did when others MIGHT question him- he kicked them out of twi, ostracized them, and told the members they were possessed, lower than dirt, and should not be spoken to unless one wanted to get possessed also. BTW, if volume of voice =holiness, Al Sharpton is twice the minister vpw was, because he can shake a building when he screams. I was not aware, however, that volume or presentation=truth... I'm glad you admit he hurt some of our beloved sisters- some people refuse to accept that. (Plus some of the other things.) I'm glad I was taught the Word also. However, I'm mindful it was part of an agenda. And if you don't want anyone to respond to your thoughts, you shouldn't post them online. Nobody gets a free ride on that.....

You think incorrectly. Pfal, mark 1, was Leonard's class with vpw's name swapped in and Leonard's swapped out. That was not his work. He compiled the work of Leonard, Bullinger, Stiles, and Kenyon.Mind you, I have no problem with compiling their work- so long as the letter and spirit of the laws of the USA are adhered to, which means CITING SOURCES. vpw-for those who actually care about the truth- went out of his way to remove the names of the men whose work he performed a cut-and-paste on. The PUBLIC aspects of the minstry nosedived when lcm took the reins. lcm was chosen by vpw over EVERYONE's objections, and was trained for the job BY vpw before he was so chosen. Therefore, lcm's rank incompetence was vpw's invention, thus the deterioration under an incompetent was vpw's choice. (Either he didn't CARE about the results, or he was so oblivious he couldn't see what everyone else told him. He DID fixate on how lcm always did whatever he told him and never questioned vpw on anything, which seems to answer WHY vpw selected him. The PRIVATE aspects of the ministry were already deteriorated- that's the private activities of vpw and ha, the 2 top dogs of twi, who committed felonies and covered them up, victimizing the Christians, for whom Christ died. THAT couldn't deteriorate any worse. Well, that's something you care about-vpw getting praise. And that's something you DON'T care about- that the praise vpw receives is actually EARNED. vpw can receive credit for the accomplishments of others, and that's just fine with you. I can't tolerate deception like that, but then I'm not you. You're free to tolerate whatever you want. That is a very good question. Jean, if it WAS your daughter who had had sex with vpw and you found out about it, would you care about that? If not, feel free to just post "I wouldn't really care." I wasn't the first one to raise this question, but it's a good question and I think you lost it in the discussion.

He taught some good Bible. He plagiarized it and pretended it was solely his discovery to puff up his ego and image, but he still taught it, and I still heard it. I've never said otherwise, nor forgotten that. With the exception of usage of the word "manifestation", and the sex stuff, it's all been traced to other, better Christians. That covers the good stuff, as far as I've seen, as reflected by what HE did. Everything else was done by others, whether in the group or whom he stole from. He was fond of warming himself at a fire he did not build, and taking credit for chopping down the trees, curing the wood, chopping the logs, stacking them, setting them in the fireplace, and lighting them. But he taught some good Bible anyway. That was 2 of Bullinger's books, retyped and reshuffled. "The Rich Man and Lazarus- Death, an Intermediate State?" and Saul and the Witch at Endor-Did the Dead Rise at Her Bidding?" The former is available for free online. If the concept is as rare as some apologists think, why does it have a name outside of twi- "soul sleep"? It's been discussed enough to have been assigned a name.

Judging from your post on the other thread, you know the movie format and who's IN the movie. Which, given a little thought, means it can only be one movie.

It's not "V for Vendetta." Read the quotes one at a time, slowly, and you'll get at least 2 things about the characters that should make this easy to guess even if you NEVER saw ANY episode from ANY season. As for the movie thread, finish the thought. If what you were reminded of is correct, it could only be one movie!

"I know. I'm fast. All my teachers said so. 'Fast, but lazy'." "As long as I can remember knowing you, you've had all the fun and most of the good women. "Lately." "Lately?" "That's what I said." "What are you talking about?" "Well, I seem to remember that girl in London. The red head. Healthy girl. " "Come on. That was nearly one hundred and sixty years ago. "That's what I said. Lately." "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's." "Just because I don't like to fight, doesn't mean that I can't." "I'm too old for this." "You won't let me change, you know that? You really expect me to steal." "I expect sharks to bite too. Don't take it personally." "You don't understand, I am the end of time!" "You're history." "Sometimes in life you have to do more than just watch." "Mac, I'm alive." "Just how old are you? Are you a Christian, or do you paint yourself blue and bay at the moon?" "You ever had it bad for an older woman?" "Well, the situation hasn't come up recently." "You try being her. You try living one year knowing that your time is running out. That no matter how much you train, no matter how many tricks you have, you STILL lose. That's the way it is for them. So little time for them to SEE anything or DO anything." "Did you really kill all those people?" "Yes, is that what you to hear? Killing was all I knew, is *that* what you want to hear?" "It's enough." "No, it is not enough. I killed, but I didn't just kill fifty, I didn't just kill a hundred. I killed thousands. I killed ten thousands. And I was good at it. And it wasn't for vengeance. It wasn't for greed. It was because I liked it. Cassandra was nothing, her village was nothing. Do you know who I was? *Death*! Death. Death on horse! When mothers warned their children that the monster would get them, that monster was me. I was the nightmare that kept them awake at night. Is that was you want to hear? Than the answer... is yes. Oh, yes." "I'll kill you in a second, boy. Leave while you still got your head." "There's only one thing that I hate more than being called a boy, and that's your stupid paintings!" "You know, considering how shot to pieces you were, it's amazing you're still alive." "Ow! Considering who's treating me, I'd say it's a miracle. Watch out. Ow! Where'd you say you studied medicine?" "Heidelberg. 1453." "Did you major in medicine or dueling?" "Both. A couple more days, you'll be able to travel." "You don't have to look quite so happy about it." "He says he heard a strange noise, we went to go check it out, and he saw three grown men with drawn swords, having it out." "Did he also see a guy in a bat costume and a long cape?"

"Help!" "No thanks, don't need any." "Won't you please, please help me!" "Well, lads, what do you think?" "I think that..." "Remember, there'll be rough seas ahead! What do you think?" "Well, um..." "Pounding overwhelming waves! What do you think of that, eh?" "Well, I think that..." "As a matter of fact, I think that..." "I think..." "Well?" "I've forgotten." "Okay, instruments at the ready..." "Okay, on the beat of one, a-two, a-three, a-four, a-five, a-six..." "Hey, can't you make it three?" "Oh, all right, on the beat of three: A-one, a-two, a-three..." " This place reminds me of Blackburn, Lancashire." "Ah, the hills are alive..." "... with the sound of music!" "WHO DID IT? Who is responsible for this?" "Rimsky-Korsakov?..........Guy Lombardo?" "Four scores and 32 bars ago, our forefathers..." "A quartet?" "....and foremothers..." "Another quartet?" "He does, in truth, seem quite annoyed. Some reference material be-be-before I'm destroyed! 'Where ground is soft most often grows, arise! Arise! Arouse! A rose!'....A rosy nose???" "SPEAK YOUR LAST PIECE!" "Peace! Peace! Supplant the doom and the gloom! Turn off what is sour! Turn into a flower and BLOOM! BLOOM! BLOOM!" "The Glove is losing his touch!" Is anyone even READING this thread lately???

I can confirm that this moderator posts the truth- things he knows, or qualifies his statements if he is unsure. So, his ANSWER TO THE QUESTION YOU ASKED is confirmed. You can thank him for answering you now-complete with phone#. I'm WordWolf. That's how I think of myself and how I have since the early 1990s. That's the name a LOTof people have known me by for years, including good friends. My involvement was on the local level, with limited visits, and classes up to and including the AC, and I left in 1989 following ROA '89 when lcm orchestrated a week of "remain loyal to me and the ministry" speeches and demonstrations. Talk about myself? Ok. I'm a casual dresser. I like the Bible, wolves, and Christian females. I have a long memory and a thirst for truth even when it is UNPLEASANT truth. I'm great in bed. In fact, given enough time, I can sleep around the clock. I'm an avid science fiction reader and internet surfer. Is that enough or do you need something more biographical? Well, I didn't know her, I only knew Tom. He was NOT a suicidal man when he was on the field, but I am aware that being loyal to the company line and being at hq when loyalty was being crammed down everyone's throat made him VERY loyal, possibly to a fanatical, unsound level. Thus, the idea that he was placed in a cleft stick where the only sound answer was "the ministry leader is a very bad man, and the ministry is wrong" was unthinkable for a very loyal company man. Perhaps if someone close to him had not placed him in the bullseye of that situation, he wouldn't have faced such a lifecrushing (to him at the time) set of options. No, there don't "have to be." twi thrives on cutting off information and hiding in the shadows. You invited attitude. It would be rude not to accept it once it's reached your doorstep with the engraved invitation.

Then I recommend hiring a private detective for an hour's work. You get what you pay for. And that was a perfectly-civilized answer. Unlike your response. And that had NOTHING to do with the reply you got. According to you, the response to that should have been "thank you." You don't sound very thankful. That is OPINION, not fact. (Except you believing in her- I'll buy you believed in her without proof.) I STILL don't get why you're spooling all this information.You asked for information, and GOT information. Nobody ASKED for a biography or even WHY you wanted it. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't conduct yourself with what is considered AVERAGE manners on the internet, then you're a twit, I don't care who paid you to be a webmaster. You should ALREADY know how to conduct yourself online. If not, you should at LEAST know the rule "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Most Christians are familiar with this rule..... Behold! All the information someone needs, so long as they know how to use a telephone! Most people would say "thank you" at this point.

"I know. I'm fast. All my teachers said so. 'Fast, but lazy'." "As long as I can remember knowing you, you've had all the fun and most of the good women. "Lately." "Lately?" "That's what I said." "What are you talking about?" "Well, I seem to remember that girl in London. The red head. Healthy girl. " "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's." "Just because I don't like to fight, doesn't mean that I can't." "I'm too old for this." "You won't let me change, you know that? You really expect me to steal." "I expect sharks to bite too. Don't take it personally." "You don't understand, I am the end of time!" "You're history." "Sometimes in life you have to do more than just watch." "Mac, I'm alive." "Just how old are you? Are you a Christian, or do you paint yourself blue and bay at the moon?" "You ever had it bad for an older woman?" "Well, the situation hasn't come up recently." "You try being her. You try living one year knowing that your time is running out. That no matter how much you train, no matter how many tricks you have, you STILL lose. That's the way it is for them. So little time for them to SEE anything or DO anything." "Did you really kill all those people?" "Yes, is that what you to hear? Killing was all I knew, is *that* what you want to hear?" "It's enough." "No, it is not enough. I killed, but I didn't just kill fifty, I didn't just kill a hundred. I killed thousands. I killed ten thousands. And I was good at it. And it wasn't for vengeance. It wasn't for greed. It was because I liked it. Cassandra was nothing, her village was nothing. Do you know who I was? *Death*! Death. Death on horse! When mothers warned their children that the monster would get them, that monster was me. I was the nightmare that kept them awake at night. Is that was you want to hear? Than the answer... is yes. Oh, yes."

"Ssssh!" "What was that?" "SSSSHHHH!" "Good plan." "I warned you not to eat on an empty stomach." "Oh! Frankenstein!" "Yeah, I used to go out with his sister." "His sister?" "Yeah, Phyllis." "A thing of beauty. DESTROY IT FOREVER!" "It's all in the mind." "Look, if you must shout, shout quietly!" "It's blue glass." "Must be from Kentucky, then." "Maybe time's gone on strike." "What for?" "Shorter hours." "I don't blame it. Must be very tiring being time, mustn't it?" "Why?" "Well, it's a twenty-four hour day, isn't it?" "It's quite uncanny, your faces..." "We're quite cute, really." "You could pass for the originals!" "Well, we are the originals." "As a matter of fact, there's a war on." "Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?" "Oh, let's not waste any more time sitting on the hence! " "You're advancing the wrong way! Retreat backwards! " "And do you speak English?" "Old English, Middle, a dialect pure." "Well, do you speak English?" "You know I'm not sure." "He's so smart he doesn't even remember what he knows!" "Hey! There's a Cyclops!" "Can't be. It's got two eyes." "Must be a "bicycle-ops" then." "There's another one." "A whole "'cyclopedia"!" "f I could come in, here, I think the theory put forward by Einstein..." "Any old Ein, any old Ein, any-any-any old Ein..." "..could well be applied here. The people in the ball are obviously extensions of our own personalities, suspended, as it were, in time, frozen in space..." "Uh, John..." "...according to the now-famous theory of relativity..." "John..." "Which, briefly explained..." "John!" "Is simply a matter of taking two eggs..." "JOHN!" "...beating lightly, and adding a little salt and pepper to taste..." "Move over, I'm driving." "No, I got here first." "I'll drive if you like..." "No, you sit in the middle." "No, I'm sitting in the middle. "You said you were driving." "I am driving." "I'll get in the back, then." "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!" "Look, it's a school of whales." "They look a little bit old for school." "University then." "University of whales." "They look like drop-outs to me." "Hey, Jeremy, what do you know about holes?" "There are simply no holes in my education!" "You mean you haven't composed a "hole" book?"

"I know. I'm fast. All my teachers said so. 'Fast, but lazy'." "As long as I can remember knowing you, you've had all the fun and most of the good women. "Lately." "Lately?" "That's what I said." "What are you talking about?" "Well, I seem to remember that girl in London. The red head. Healthy girl. " "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's." "Just because I don't like to fight, doesn't mean that I can't." "I'm too old for this." "You won't let me change, you know that? You really expect me to steal." "I expect sharks to bite too. Don't take it personally." "You don't understand, I am the end of time!" "You're history." "Sometimes in life you have to do more than just watch."

"Ssssh!" "What was that?" "SSSSHHHH!" "Good plan." "I warned you not to eat on an empty stomach." "Oh! Frankenstein!" "Yeah, I used to go out with his sister." "His sister?" "Yeah, Phyllis." "A thing of beauty. DESTROY IT FOREVER!" "It's all in the mind." "Look, if you must shout, shout quietly!" "It's blue glass." "Must be from Kentucky, then." "Maybe time's gone on strike." "What for?" "Shorter hours." "I don't blame it. Must be very tiring being time, mustn't it?" "Why?" "Well, it's a twenty-four hour day, isn't it?" "It's quite uncanny, your faces..." "We're quite cute, really." "You could pass for the originals!" "Well, we are the originals." "As a matter of fact, there's a war on. "Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?" "Oh, let's not waste any more time sitting on the hence! " "You're advancing the wrong way! Retreat backwards! "

Correct, and correct! This still gets airplay on classic rock stations, so it's hardly obscure.... Your turn, waysider!

New show. "I know. I'm fast. All my teachers said so. 'Fast, but lazy'." "As long as I can remember knowing you, you've had all the fun and most of the good women. "Lately." "Lately?" "That's what I said." "What are you talking about?" "Well, I seem to remember that girl in London. The red head. Healthy girl. " "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's."

"Ssssh!" "What was that?" "SSSSHHHH!" "Good plan." "I warned you not to eat on an empty stomach." "Oh! Frankenstein!" "Yeah, I used to go out with his sister." "His sister?" "Yeah, Phyllis." "A thing of beauty. DESTROY IT FOREVER!"

"Oh is there concrete all around, Or is it in my head?" "Oh man, I need tv when I've got T-Rex"

*checks* There's an Uncle Jesse and Aunt Becky in Full House, but not in Bernie Mac that I found.

"Ssssh!" "What was that?" "SSSSHHHH!" "Good plan." "I told you not to eat on an empty stomach."

Ok, now THAT's FULL HOUSE!

*wild swing* "Full House"?

Lots of people made a difference- LOCALLY. This never produced a change in the organization, because those holding the reins of power were dedicated to avoiding that kind of change. They wanted-and want still- to centralize money, power, and privilege. To the hands of a few-themselves. That means little or no money is available to go to the local believers, the local Christians. Ever see twi spend money on locals that aren't near hq? Oh, there were a handful of exceptions, but they were extremely rare. And they were either connected with locals twi wanted to impress, or a desire to make a local headline. Please note that-to this day- LOTS of people have actually said "I shall remain in twi, work hard, and I shall make a difference and change its direction." LOTS of people. Many of them post here, or HAVE posted here. Some of the kids IN twi NOW have said that. It's NEVER worked. It never worked when twi was young, nor any time after that. It will NEVER work. They MEAN well, but they're spitting in the wind. Those who run twi will take any measure necessary to hold on to the power, and suppress any reforms. Like they always have. =================== BTW, the thread "vp and me in wonderland" gives a look inside the way corps and vpw, just as "the way: living in wonderland" gives a look into twi's earlier years.

That's your opinion. My opinion? I don't think YOU really want to get the entire picture, just enough pretext to fashion an excuse to rationalize away the accounts of the victims, and the complete picture that emerges when EVERYONE's testimony has been taken into account, pro-, con-, and neutral. Saying the picture is incomplete because vpw can't be questioned is silly. We know what he'd say. He'd deny everything all the way down the line, and switch lies when one lie is caught. After all, that's what he always did. For example, vpw made up an imaginary blizzard that supposedly kept him from leaving a hotel where a conference was held, which led him to meet JE Stiles, whom he claim God told to show up at the convention just to minister to ONE MAN (suggesting it was vpw.) Naturally, since Stiles is dead, we can't ask him if God told him that. Anyway, this blizzard dressed up his story and made it miraculous. According to him, it blanketed the city, and all planes, busses and trains were STOPPED. Someone did some checking. They found the precise dates of the conference. There wasn't even a flake of snow falling from the sky when vpw claimed there was a blizzard. And the city wasn't hit with anything shutting the city down at all that month. So, they went to vpw and asked him about it, citing what they found. Without any uncertainty or surprise, without the natural response of "You must have the wrong dates-I was THERE and there was SNOW and SNOW!", he immediately replied that it must have been an angel that got on the phone and lied to him, telling him there were no vehicles leaving town, and this was the first time, and that a blizzard was clearly visible all outside the hotel, which apparently was a miraculous mirage. vpw never had a twinge of conscience lying about little things, or big things. We know EXACTLY what vpw would say. He'd deny everything categorically, and claim everyone else was delusional, lying, or both. Any decent investigator of any type could tell you that finding the truth of a matter is independent of what any one person CLAIMS is the truth. Look to the bulk of the eyewitnesses. Look to the physical evidence. Look for the complete picture they paint. And look over the exceptions, and figure out why they contradict- whether by error, lie, or interpretational misunderstanding. If your conscience insists that inability to question vpw is enough of a reason to suppose that hundreds of strangers all came forth and said the same thing, that even INSIDERS confessed knowing or participating, that twi's response to a paper saying "adultery is wrong" is to fire the man who wrote it, ostracize him, and to claim that HE is possessed and anyone who reads his PAPER will GET possessed, which, BTW, is vpw's old modus operandi when silencing someone, and to suppose that ALL of them got together and fabricate a lie with complete strangers, well, I leave that to your conscience. For the vast majority of people- especially those who aren't battling some idyllic shangri-la image of vpw, hq and twi in general- it is NOT difficult to see that the hundreds of people told the truth, and the one guy did not.