WordWolf

I think it was Raf who I first saw carry the logic out on paper so that it was obvious what nagged one about that doctrine. By "that doctrine", I meant the one where "God can only speak to that which He is". The idea is that God, who is Spirit (and even vpw said, at other times "but He is other things too"), is unable to communicate directly with our minds, because He is Spirit, and Spirit can't communicate directly with flesh (and therefore, mind). So then God implanted spirit within us to overcome that impossibility. So God's Spirit interfaces directly with our spirit. Ok, no problems there. We have easier analogies now that we have the internet and related technologies, so I can follow all that easily. The NEXT step, however, is the problem. OUR spirit then communicates with our mind. HEY! You just said spirit and mind CAN'T COMMUNICATE! That's the whole idea behind the doctrine! So God's Great Big Spirit can't communicate with my mind (it's impossible), but my tiny-by-comparison spirit can do it easily anytime I want? Doesn't wash. ============= As to who and what God Almighty can communicate with, I think most of us monotheists here agree that God Almighty (being Almighty and all) can communicate with who or whatever He wants, whenever He wants. He's effectively got infinite variety in doing so. Download information directly into one's cerebral cortex? Why not? No verse says He cannot, no verse says He WOULD not. Burning bush? Disembodied voice? He's been there, done that, and got the t-shirts. I might say God MORE EFFICIENTLY communicates by interfacing Spirit-to-spirit. I could see logic in that and get behind it. ========= I think my problems with The Great Principle are not insurmountable, but would need to be addressed. First of all, this name. "The Great Principle"? If there is any one "Great Principle", I would say JESUS CHRIST gave it. "You shall love the Lord your God with everything you've got." The Second Greatest Principle, then, I would say JESUS CHRIST gave as well. "You shall love your neighbor like your own self." (From the context, this can be rephrased as the Golden Rule- "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"- and the Silver Rule- "What you don't want others to do to you, don't do to them.") Compared to mLaSJC, any principle given by any man is a distant runner-up. So, I don't think this so-called "Great Principle" is that great. I think it's pretty good. So, let's see. How would I fix the Pretty Good Principle? "God is Spirit." I'm with you there. The idea behind it says God can only communicate with that which He is. No, with a little fine-tuning, we see God can communicate MORE EFFICIENTLY with spirit. "God, who is Spirit" I'm with you there. "Teaches His creation in you" Now I've got a problem again. This phrasing makes it sound as if the spirit in me is SENTIENT, as in "I can think, and my spirit can think, independently of each other." I can't get behind that one. I can accept God communicating with His creation in me, and that operating as a sort of "translator" (like a modem) to the rest of me. I can accept that "my" spirit has priorities hard-wired into it. Programming, so to speak. It can do anything it was programmed to do. (It has its own drivers, to use computer techspeak a bit more.) I don't think He TEACHES so much as COMMUNICATES, and the process is what teaches. The teaching is not confined to the step it's named in, but rather at the step where it reaches my thinking. And the teaching is not "my spirit to my mind", but "God who is Spirit" teaching my mind. Is there a step in-between where "my" spirit is involved? Yes, but that's besides the point, and is incidental to the teaching. Look, when I post here, I don't grab a pen and write on your screen. I type into my computer. My computer, which is technology, communicates my message to my ISP, and my ISP communicates to the GSC server, and that server communicates to your ISP, and thence to your computer. Neither your ISP nor mine is said to "write a post" or "read a post" here. They are part of the process, but incidental to the goals of posting and reading. So, Pretty-Good Principle. Nonsense? I would not say so. (Others may disagree.) Needs improvement? Definitely. (A few will swear it does not.) "God, who is Spirit, communicates with His creation in you, which is now your spirit, and then proceeds to instruct your mind." That's how I'd rephrase that. I find the rest of it a little idiosyncratic, but serviceable. "Then it becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act." Maybe something like "As you take action, then His Will is done. Or not, depending on your chosen action." I prefer to use terminology closer to what Jesus used ("Thy Will be done, as in Heaven, so on Earth") instead of more esoteric twi-speak ("manifested in the senses realm"). I also allowed for the possibility that God can tell you His will, and you can just blow it off and not carry it out. It seems self-evident to me that this need not be documented. Let me know if you need it broken down, though. There's examples in the Bible, and in the modern world.

Next one. "I have the impression that we woke you about three-thirty this morning." "No, it was ten of four." "Did we say why?" "Uh, you said you wanted to sacrifice a virgin." "Did we?" "I was too sleepy."

I was waiting for another quote. The one about the "BRILL-iant ideas" was the catchphrase for Blair on "Facts of Life." My comment was an exchange that happened more than once in one episode where Jo refused to tell how she got beer while underage. And, apparently, I'm not the only person across cyberspace that thought it was memorable. (I didn't check on the brilliant idea one, though.) I'm not SURE about his other quotes. The "greeting" MIGHT have been when one character was smashed. Or I may have made that up.

"Before I forget, here's the immunological data you asked for." "How sweet of you to put this together for me so quickly... I think I'll go look it over right now." Bashir and Leeta were flirting. Dax interrupted. Bashir began typing on his PADD. The screen read "GO AWAY" when he handed it to her. "Elizabeth Lense... I think she may have been in my class at Starfleet Medical." "Wasn't she the valedictorian?" "That's right..." "And you were... salutatorian?" "Second in my class..." "If I hadn't mistaken a pre-ganglionic fiber --" "For a post-ganglionic nerve, I know." "I would've been valedictorian." "Oh, well..." Bashir was second to Elizabeth Lense. As we later learned, Bashir "threw" the exam to draw less attention to himself due to his genetically-altered history. "You sound like a Cardassian... " "I beg your pardon? " "They've denied the possibility of ancient contact for decades because they can't stand the idea that Bajor had interstellar flight before they did." "With all due respect, Major... you're beginning to sound like a Romulan." "A Romulan?" "There's no piece of technology in existence that they don't claim they invented before everyone else..." O'Brien questioned whether this ship could fly. Kira challenged his position, and O'Brien challenged back. "I'm expecting a lumber shipment from Bajor this afternoon." "Okay... " "Which reminds me... I'll also need a saber saw." "A saber saw? " "You know... to cut wood." "Why not use a laser cutter? " "Because I want to use the same types of tools the Bajorans had." "A computer model could do that... why go to all the trouble?" "Why? Because it'll be fun!" "Except for the gravity net I installed in the floor... weightlessness makes me queasy... " Sisko made the ship the same way, and with the same specs, as the Bajorans claimed to use. Except for gravity. (Which is expensive to do away with on tv.) "I'm expecting a report from Starfleet Command. You'd better relay it to me aboard the Baraka as soon as it comes in." The ship was called "the Baraka." "If you recall, you thought the Celestial Temple was a Bajoran fairy tale... -- until we discovered the wormhole." Gul Dukat told Sisko he was chasing a fairy tale with this. "Listen..." "I don't hear anything..." "Exactly... not even the hum of an engine... It's almost like being on the deck of an old sailing ship... except the stars aren't just up in the sky, they're all around us..." The Baraka was a solar sailor. It was powered by solar winds pushing it. "Bring me my bow, of burn - ing gold... Bring me my ar - rows of de - sire... Bring me my spear! O clouds ? un-fold... Bring me my cha - ri-ots of fire! I will not cease, from men-tal fight... Nor shall my sword sleep in hand... Till we have built, Je-ru - sa - lem... In Eng-land's green and plea-sant land..." "That was beautiful, Chief... just beautiful. You know what we should do... ?" "What?" "Go to Quark's... and sing it for everyone there... " "Maybe we should switch to synthale... " O'Brien and Bashir getting smashed. Trivia note: Colm Meaney ("Chief Miles O'Brien") suggested this song after the producers were unable to get the rights to "Louie, Louie", "Rocket Man" or "Space Oddity". You're not an in-between kind of guy. People either love you or hate you." "Really?" "I mean, I hated you when I first met you." "I remember." "And now..." "And now?" "Well... Now, I don't." "That means a lot to me, chief." "And that is from the heart! I really do... not hate you." Hint: Does the name "Thor Heyerdahl" mean anything to you guys? Kon-Tiki? The hint was that this appears based on Thor Heyerdahl's voyage of his ship, the Kon-Tiki, to show that such a ship could have worked centuries earlier, before Columbus. Go, George!

Right.

Don't like the menu here, nobody's forcing you to eat here. Lurking and posting are done at your own risk. We set great store at freedom to think and freedom to discuss here. There are plenty of boards that do not. Feel free to seek them out for all the legalization and rules you see fit. Mind you, the pro-twi boards won't ALLOW you on, because you're not a current member, which is a REQUIREMENT of theirs. But you can find lots of OTHER boards with their own rules. Thousands upon thousands of them have never even HEARD of twi, vpw, pfal, etc. You could even post at some of them and come back here. (Lots of us post at non-twi-related boards ALL THE TIME.) Or was that meant intentionally to illustrate the topic, and twi's famous "if I'm in the room, I'm controlling the microphone and the discussions" stance, which some of us can't live without?

"Before I forget, here's the immunological data you asked for." "How sweet of you to put this together for me so quickly... I think I'll go look it over right now." "Elizabeth Lense... I think she may have been in my class at Starfleet Medical." "Wasn't she the valedictorian?" "That's right..." "And you were... salutatorian?" "Second in my class..." "If I hadn't mistaken a pre-ganglionic fiber --" "For a post-ganglionic nerve, I know." "I would've been valedictorian." "Oh, well..." "You sound like a Cardassian... " "I beg your pardon? " "They've denied the possibility of ancient contact for decades because they can't stand the idea that Bajor had interstellar flight before they did." "With all due respect, Major... you're beginning to sound like a Romulan." "A Romulan?" "There's no piece of technology in existence that they don't claim they invented before everyone else..." "I'm expecting a lumber shipment from Bajor this afternoon." "Okay... " "Which reminds me... I'll also need a saber saw." "A saber saw? " "You know... to cut wood." "Why not use a laser cutter? " "Because I want to use the same types of tools the Bajorans had." "A computer model could do that... why go to all the trouble?" "Why? Because it'll be fun!" "Except for the gravity net I installed in the floor... weightlessness makes me queasy... " "I'm expecting a report from Starfleet Command. You'd better relay it to me aboard the Baraka as soon as it comes in." "If you recall, you thought the Celestial Temple was a Bajoran fairy tale... -- until we discovered the wormhole." "Listen..." "I don't hear anything..." "Exactly... not even the hum of an engine... It's almost like being on the deck of an old sailing ship... except the stars aren't just up in the sky, they're all around us..." "Bring me my bow, of burn - ing gold... Bring me my ar - rows of de - sire... Bring me my spear! O clouds ? un-fold... Bring me my cha - ri-ots of fire! I will not cease, from men-tal fight... Nor shall my sword sleep in hand... Till we have built, Je-ru - sa - lem... In Eng-land's green and plea-sant land..." "That was beautiful, Chief... just beautiful. You know what we should do... ?" "What?" "Go to Quark's... and sing it for everyone there... " "Maybe we should switch to synthale... " Trivia note: Colm Meaney ("Chief Miles O'Brien") suggested this song after the producers were unable to get the rights to "Louie, Louie", "Rocket Man" or "Space Oddity". You're not an in-between kind of guy. People either love you or hate you." "Really?" "I mean, I hated you when I first met you." "I remember." "And now..." "And now?" "Well... Now, I don't." "That means a lot to me, chief." "And that is from the heart! I really do... not hate you." Hint: Does the name "Thor Heyerdahl" mean anything to you guys? Kon-Tiki?

BINGO.

Well, the people DO bear SOME responsibility. They went from ONE group that set themselves up as Lords Over God's Heritage, and ignored the warnings from those who said it would happen again sooner or later (like rascal and WordWolf), and got involved with a group of ex-LOGH types who started out supposedly open and honest in all dealings, and slowly, slowly set themselves up as messenger/leaders whose "suggestions" are tantamount to commands, whom disagreeing with is disagreeing with GOD ALMIGHTY, and eventually moved to pushing programs that misuse and mistreat people, and then make it policy that those at the top can slander anyone so long as it's called "prophecy", (plus whatever happens I don't know about). thus resulting in misusing and mistreating many people as a POLICY (while treating SOME nice, which helps obfuscate the mistreatments with counter-examples), and becoming OBVIOUSLY UNFIT LEADERS. The rank-and-file chose to be gullible after being warned the first time. The rank-and-file chose to suppose their "leaders" could be trusted. The rank-and-file chose to trust those in power. The rank-and-file, therefore, are partly to blame, in that they've acted partly as ENABLERS. If the rank-and-file had risen up to condemn Momentus, it would have been stopped (instead of just being recommended quietly). If the rank-and-file had risen up to condemn this "spiders-up-the-nose" so-called prophecying, these messages supposedly from God but appear to be from elsewhere, it would have been stopped. Instead, the rank-and-file have given over trust and power to those clearly unworthy of either. Therefore, it is up to the rank-and-file to WAKE UP, and REQUIRE ACCOUNTABILITY of those who have already demonstrated gross incompetence, and deny money, endorsement and support until accountability has been enacted, and to leave and find some other worthy endeavour if that is not enacted.

Seems pretty basic to me. And so many people seem quick to change the subject when this comes up, apparently to excuse an absence of humility to people claiming to represent God. Ok, he's swift to slap categorical labels on those of us who disagree with him, swift to accept KAG's a prophetess and endorse her pronouncements CATEGORICALLY, and slow to read anything that disagrees with any of his positions, regardless of which position it is. And people are still paying him to do this. Amazing. I'd ask "how do I get a piece of this easy money?" but my conscience won't even let me say it as a joke. I don't know how his allows him to actually DO it. Unless it's dulled down, asleep at the switch, too jaded to register real issues.

Hey, if what's best for you is moving on, then hey, move on and I'm happy for you! If it's not, then we'll see you soon. ;) Either way, you do what works for you.

Ok, without me influencing the discussion, what do you think is the deal with the scar? JKR said the lightning bolt was because that looks cool, and that the shape was not the most important thing about it. So, what's the deal with the scar itself?

Maybe if you included "How did you get beer?" "I got beer." someone might remember.

That's why I included a bunch of links for those who wanted to look over some documentation. I wouldn't have included the wiki information if I didn't own a FEW books that made the same points.

"Before I forget, here's the immunological data you asked for." "How sweet of you to put this together for me so quickly... I think I'll go look it over right now." "Wasn't she the valedictorian?" "That's right..." "And you were... salutatorian?" "Second in my class..." "If I hadn't mistaken a pre-ganglionic fiber --" "For a post-ganglionic nerve, I know." "I would've been valedictorian." "Oh, well..." "With all due respect, Major... you're beginning to sound like a Romulan." "A Romulan?" "There's no piece of technology in existence that they don't claim they invented before everyone else..." "I'm expecting a lumber shipment from Bajor this afternoon." "Okay... " "Which reminds me... I'll also need a saber saw." "A saber saw? " "You know... to cut wood." "Why not use a laser cutter? " "A computer model could do that... why go to all the trouble?" "Why? Because it'll be fun!" "Listen..." "I don't hear anything..." "Exactly... not even the hum of an engine... It's almost like being on the deck of an old sailing ship... except the stars aren't just up in the sky, they're all around us..." "Bring me my bow, of burn - ing gold... Bring me my ar - rows of de - sire... Bring me my spear! O clouds ? un-fold... Bring me my cha - ri-ots of fire! I will not cease, from men-tal fight... Nor shall my sword sleep in hand... Till we have built, Je-ru - sa - lem... In Eng-land's green and plea-sant land..." "That was beautiful, Chief... just beautiful. You know what we should do... ?" "What?" "Go to Quark's... and sing it for everyone there... " "Maybe we should switch to synthale... " Trivia note: Colm Meaney ("Chief Miles O'Brien") suggested this song after the producers were unable to get the rights to "Louie, Louie", "Rocket Man" or "Space Oddity".

I can recall it, and have the search skills. I believe what you're looking for has been posted in this post linked here... http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=202209 Do not consider this an endorsement of sadomasochistic equine necrophilic obsessions. I do not wish to flog this dead horse any further. (Nor is this a statement that someone gets a free pass if they try. They will not.)

"Before I forget, here's the immunological data you asked for." "How sweet of you to put this together for me so quickly... I think I'll go look it over right now." "Wasn't she the valedictorian?" "That's right..." "And you were... salutatorian?" "Second in my class..." "If I hadn't mistaken a pre-ganglionic fiber --" "For a post-ganglionic nerve, I know." "I would've been valedictorian." "Oh, well..." "With all due respect, Major... you're beginning to sound like a Romulan." "A Romulan?" "There's no piece of technology in existence that they don't claim they invented before everyone else..." "Listen..." "I don't hear anything..." "Exactly... not even the hum of an engine..."

I'll suppose I was correct, since there was no response. So, next episode.... "Before I forget, here's the immunological data you asked for." "How sweet of you to put this together for me so quickly... I think I'll go look it over right now."

"Mr. President, my son is being held captive in Iraq, and I need you to save him. Now I've given money to the republicans for years, and never asked for anything in return." "You asked to be Secretary of Balloon-Doggies." "I didn't ASK to be Secretary of Balloon-Doggies, the balloon-doggies DEMANDED it!" That was from the episode where the critic was missing in the Middle East. I loved it because the cab-driver spoke plain English- because he was in the cab-driver exchange program. That program ensures no cab-driver speaks the native language of the country he's driving in. "Whenever he sings to me, I melt like butter on a bagel. God, I've been in New York too long." Alice, on her philandering, cheating ex, who was a good singer. " God love her, Mom, I couldn't change her mind. You should be proud she has your will." "She may have my will, but she doesn't have my gun! " Jay Sherman's sister was refusing a debutante "coming-out." Mom finally threatened to shoot her horse if she said 'no.' "...Tim Allen gives that same likeable performance we've always love. Once again proving Disney Pictures have the magical touch that may not win awards but keep America smiling. How's that?" "You're Satan aren't you?" "You've won another round Siskel. But we shall meet again!" That was really memorable. Siskel and Ebert got in an argument and temporarily split up, and were both looking for new partners. Siskel was interviewing one perfectly normal-looking applicant, who was just a bit too antiseptic. Siskel casually rattled off the ID. "You're Satan, aren't you?" And the applicant burst into flames-he really WAS Satan. And left. Go, Raf.

Correct!

[Me, I'd say that the doctors who spent a bunch of years in school to learn about the body, then specialized in trauma and recovery, then spent years putting that training into practice, and having late 20th-century diagnostic tools at their fingertips, and using that skill and those resources to diagnose and triage the injured man, I'd say THEY could say. Some people have suffered severe trauma and blood loss, and doctors have been able to preserve their lives and eventually they make a full, if slow, recovery. That certainly doesn't happen as the result of dismissing some of the more effective methods of preserving life. When a professional speaks on his profession, I tend to think he knows what he's talking about.] [To use your own question, who's to say a transfusion would have beenunable to save him? The answer, as I've said, is "the doctors". However, they did NOT just say "well, a transfusion would have made no difference here", and I know that because you would have trumpeted that to the sky.] [Thousands of people each year die from being hit by cars. Do we ban cars? No, we just try to make them SAFER. On the other hand, millions of people's lives have been saved solely due to blood transfusions. Did they thwart God's will by surviving? All of life involves risk. The smart person does what they can to minimize risk, and maximize benefits. So, faced with dying if one does not get a transfusion, and hearing "but there's a chance the transfusion will kill you anyway"-as if that was the announcement- a smart person would say "then give me the transfusion and we'll plan for survival." And the medical situation HARDLY is as bleak for people who get transfusions as you paint.]

"Anglican." The Church of England is shortened to "C. of E.". That's the group that split off from the Roman Catholic Church because one king wanted a divorce and the RCC wouldn't give it to him, so he made his own church just like the RCC except for the divorce. That's called "Anglican", and if you're in the USA, it's called an "Episcopalian" church. All the same church.

"Mr. President, my son is being held captive in Iraq, and I need you to save him. Now I've given money to the republicans for years, and never asked for anything in return." "You asked to be Secretary of Balloon-Doggies." "I didn't ASK to be Secretary of Balloon-Doggies, the balloon-doggies DEMANDED it!" "Whenever he sings to me, I melt like butter on a bagel. God, I've been in New York too long." " God love her, Mom, I couldn't change her mind. You should be proud she has your will." "She may have my will, but she doesn't have my gun! " "...Tim Allen gives that same likeable performance we've always love. Once again proving Disney Pictures have the magical touch that may not win awards but keep America smiling. How's that?" "You're Satan aren't you?" "You've won another round Siskel. But we shall meet again!"

My favourite Tick quotes come from when Arthur and Tick were trying to choose a battlecry. Arthur: "How about 'not in the face, not in the face'? We say that anyway." But Tick selected "SPOON!" and used it in a number of episodes.

Actually, the 1970s was the LAST time they set a date for the Apocalypse and were wrong. Dates were set in the 1800s, and a few in the 1910's. Eventually, those dates were retroactively assigned new meanings, since obviously they weren't the Apocalypse. Don't worry, you'll live to see it again. The one in the 1970s will likewise be renamed eventually. As to arbitrarily picking dates for the last days, I personally think that Europeans who lived through the Black Death a millenium ago had a MUCH stronger case for the end of the world than anyone in the 20th century had. A handful of nations in yet another war? Wasn't even the first REAL World War- it had as much involvement as the Napoleonic Wars, so that should be the REAL World War I.