RottieGrrrl

Yeah word but the Seventh-day Adventist and Jehovah witnesses etc. etc. etc. consider themselves to be the only real Christians too. I can still watch teachings from just about any religion and get something from it if it's accurate. I do not throw the baby out with the bathwater because then I would not listen to anybody. Hey this was supposed to go under WordWorld's post .I don't know what happened !

Well, to answer honestly, The Wayfers most likely don't think they are lying. No religion has all the truth. That's what discernment is for.  As far as the Trinity, you could ask that of Jehovah Witnesses, Jews, and Muslims, etc. as well.  I don't believe you have to believe in the "Trinity" to be saved. I didn't even know what it was when I was "saved." I just believed Jesus was Lord, at some point. Before I ever met the wayfers.

What a terrible, terrible loss.

Agreed. I was reading some old archived threads and I absolutely couldn't believe how many times we sided on the same issues, even when I thought I was the only one who felt the way I did. Why didn't I notice that before? We will see ya some day our GS buddy. :knuddel:/>

I know this is an old thread. But I'm praying for you now exie. And I will keep you in my prayers as the others are too. :love3:/> And what a great scripture GeorgeSTGeorge has. I think I'm going to read that today.

Dovey I miss you so much.

Whooooa Mark, this is FASCINATING STUFF! Thank you so much for posting this! You should write a book on this subject yourself. No kidding! Isn't it interesting though that when Jesus Christ will rule the world people will still be sinning, and I would guess, there are STILL going to be people that will not accept Him!!!

I also know about the lies and deceit of which you are speaking. It's ringing through loud and clear in every aspect of our lives, and it is especially grievous when us so called "Christians" fall for the deception of the world and are too chicken to stand on The Word, because of the persecution and mockery that goes along with it. Oh, I'll have to read your post over again, I think with my brain I need to reread it a few times before I get the full gist of it.

Waysider, lol you goof. You just can't help being a goof can you? :)

Thank you Mark, for the scripture and explanation. Oh man, I don't want to get too heavy into this. Revelation is a very trick book, and I fully believe that no matter how much people THINK they can decipher it, the book won't truly start revealing itself until it's God appointed time. I remember just recently watching this minister on TV sharing that when he was young his pastor was adamant that he had figured out who this passage was about from Revelation 9.

And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

⁸ And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

⁹ And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

He said his pastor said. "I know who these are! These are hippies on motorcycles!" :biglaugh:/>:biglaugh:/>:biglaugh:/> I thought that was hysterical, and so did he obviously. That being said, I would like to know who the heck this "false prophet" is

I just saw this waysider. :biglaugh:/>:biglaugh:/>:biglaugh:/> I want one!

Bean Thank you for the scripture references!!! That helps a lot! :)

WordWolf I knew I could count on you to sum it up, lol. Thank you for that account. I KNOW there have been volumes written on the subject, and I am familiar with the Post and Pre tribbers, I'm not familiar with the Mid tribbers, lol. I lean toward the pre-trib I guess. I like to think were are OUT OF HERE, before the crap hits the fan! I know there is SO much taught on this subject, and one really has to take the teachings with a grain of salt, as there is SO much private interpretation in Revelation. But that is why I just wanted a 101 account of the events that happen, because so many people think that once we die we just all go floating around in heaven somewhere (if we are good) and that's that. Or we turn into angels, you know what I mean.

Mark thank you for your answer and web page. I'm really not trying to study revelation at all, i just wanted a 101 account of the events in the order they are supposed to happen. :)

Okay, real quick, just to see if I have a semblance of this straight. There is going to be a gathering of the church when Christ comes back. Then somewhere the anti-christ is going to appear, and from what a couple of TV preachers I've seen said, his reign of terror will be like 3 1/2 years. I heard one TV preacher (I think it was David Jeremiah) who said that he will seem to bring peace at first, and the Jewish people will be so tired of fighting, they will disarm themselves and allow the anti christ to provide protection, and then renig(sp?) on the deal and I'm lost from there until him and some false prophet gets thrown into the lake of fire. LOL~ I KNOW I'm stupid about this but I'm trying to piece this together from what little I know! :)

Okay, then there comes the milinium, Where Christ Reigns for 1000 years, (and his church reigns with him?) After that satan is let loose and then the final battle? I really am just trying to understand, and even explain the millennium to certain people who ask me about this stuff, because I JUST LEARNED OF THIS MYSELF! I don't know beans about revelation. Can somebody put this into a simple 101 formula, just a basic outline? Thank you!

Just curious: how are you distinguishing between "taking things for granted" and "blind faith"?

Gee Raf, just the creation and life and the order of the universe and everything I touch see hear and taste everyday. The ability to do all that! The sun in the sky. Everything. The plastics and metals we use to create things. Playing solitaire and the fact that there are mathematical principals that people create games with. The ability to LOVE.

One scripture that speaks loudly to me, I guess, is Romans 1:20. I mean, everybody has their fave scriptures that speak to them, but the more I meditate on that particular scripture,the jist of it is that the one thing that people will not be able to claim when they face God is, "they didn't believe there was a God." We are without excuse. No offense to you and your journey, I've had my doubts too, it's just my own mind or the devil messing with me. But I think deep in our hearts, people know there is a God. We may not understand who He is, or agree with Him, but I really believe in our hearts we know there is a God.

I get angry at Him, I've even told Him I hate him. lol. Like a bratty child. Anyway, that's just my opinion. YOU ASKED! lol. />

i'm cool with all of this since i take everything on blind faith anyway

exie I just have to pop in here and give my 2 cents to that. I don't think any believer takes anything on "blind" faith, we all just take an incredible amount of things for granted.

Oh my gosh, I'm just catching up with these posts now! These are great!!!!! This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about! Sorry for the absence, I'm dealing with a crooked broker who stole money. Sigh. Anyway, this is the stuff I mean. I think many times we miss opportunities to help, at least I do, because my head is up my butt and my mind is rattling on about other things. But thank you! I always remind myself to look and listen to where Holy Spirit is guiding me, and then my mind starts off on it's own again................

Just to throw this in, I found this blog, written by a praise and worship team leader who travels to different churches. It opened my eyes to even applauding singers and musicians. Excuse me, but WHY are we clapping? I won't reprint the whole thing, but here are some interesting observations from this person.

The last church visit we did really opened my eyes about something the church has gotten into the habit of doing and I truly believe it does not please the Lord. The music was led by your standard praise and worship team. After the last song ended, absolutely no one in that entire congregation began clapping. My fleshly man wanted to really give it a good round of applause (!) but not one soul in there did a thing. They just remained standing, some heads bowed, but just stood — silently.

The hair stood up on the back of my neck! I felt the Lord's presence as never before. And no, we're not talking about "feelings" here. We're talking about the Lord's presence. It suddenly hit me: People in churches are not clapping in thanksgiving to the Lord when they do. They/WE are actually telling the 'performers up front' thank you for entertaining me! Immediately I knew the Lord was showing me that real worship requires no outward signs of approval from men. It wasn't a Broadway show, it was a service of Worship to our God and King.

Would somebody please tell me why we applaud singers at church? We don't applaud people when they pray. We don't applaud the preacher when he preaches or the teacher when he teaches or the ushers when they pass around the plate. Does anyone applaud the greeters or the nursery workers for their performance each week? How about the folks that mow the grass on Saturday or clean the restrooms on Monday; does anybody clap for them? I'll bet your church secretary has never received a round of applause – unless she's in the choir, of course. No, the reality is, we applaud singers almost exclusively. Why? Because that's what our entertainment-oriented world has taught us to do.

There is more to the article, but this is the main jist of it. I found it thought-provoking.

What could be cheesier than a fake standing ovation?

lol waysider. But it's not just cheesy, it's completely inappropriate at least, and at most, idolatry. The congregants are not an audience. And the preacher should not be drawing attention to themselves. I know that some churches have you stand for the initial reading of the Word of God. If you ever catch John Hagee on TV he does this all the time. He'll crack open the bible and tell everyone to stand for the Word, then have them sit after a minute or so.

When I went to see Joyce Meyer back in 2007, she has a huge production. Hillsong and Darlene Zschech were there. The worship was actually too big and loud for me. I was zoning out, when I heard this "OPEN YOUR BIBLES PEOPLE!" and I looked up and there she was just ripping right into the word. It was like, Whoa, where did she come from?

The Word should be the "star" not the preacher. I guess most of us were so naive we just didn't know any better and didn't have anything to compare it too. Outside of the RCC which is where many wayfers came from, I think.

If I EVER went to any church today, where they applauded the preacher, and actually STOOD for the person preaching it, I would be appalled.

It's ironic because I was just watching the Andy Griffith Show yesterday, and in this one episode, some preacher from New York comes to guest speak at "All Souls Church" and when Reverend Tucker introduces him, Barney starts to applaud and Andy has to shush him. Even Andy knew it was inappropriate! lol.

Coming back to add, I have heard preachers say something like "Let's give God praise" and people might applaud, but NEVER the preacher. In normal churches that is.

"Hookay, back to your thread, sorry for hijacking it."

That's not hijacking.

The pre-sermon applause is exactly the kind of scripted thing I'm referring to. Only, I'm more interested in how you felt when you suddenly realized you'd been used as an actor in a scripted performance.

Very good question waysider, and I think I'm just getting the gist of that now. And it is soooooooo true.

A few years later, when I was in-residence corps, we all took a trip to Wichita for a "Day in the Word" and VPW was the featured speaker. Way productions had just finished performing and having done so, broke down their mics while someone announced, "Ladies and gentlemen, the President and Founder of the Way International, Dr. VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE"!!WOO-HOO!! The crowd cheers and out comes Wierwille from stage right and he has his arms spread at hip height, as if to say, "Bless you my children." He took about 3 steps and ran into one of the mics and this big, loud, "KA-THUNK!" sound resonated throughout the auditorium. So it was, "Ladies and gentlemen...etc." (pause) KA-THUNK! I thought it was hysterical but I had to stifle my laugh because I was wearing a green name tag and all. I thought, "That's on you man. You weren't watching." But you know someone got chewed out for that. The thing is, that's the only thing I remember from the event.

I just have to throw in here, I've read about people applauding this guy when he started to speak, and well, that just seems weird to me. I've never seen a minister being applauded in church when he's teaching the Word. And I've been to a couple of TV preachers, Joyce Meyer, and Andrew Wommack, and when they come out (after the music and stuff) to teach, they just start teaching, nobody applauds them like they are some freaking rock star.

I honestly don't remember if they did that at the Naperville offshoot I went to in the 90s, I really have zoned most of that out. But to applaud the preacher? Weird, weird weird.

Hookay, back to your thread, sorry for hijacking it.

sounds awesome johniam. I know people love Alaska when they visit it, my parents did too, back in the late 80s, they just loved it. I never go anywhere and I just can't flippen wait to go to Israel. lol.

Aww, thanks Steve. :) I guess I'm just learning how cool it is that God wants to use us everyday in everyway to help other people in just little ways. How awesome that really is!

You know dmiller, I know you're joking, but I actually thought about how manipulative the wayfers, and others, (specifically the JW I talked with a couple weeks ago) are with God. It's like, the way I thought was, God doesn't work outside the walls of......name your brand of religion....and what a crock that is and how awful and arrogant that is. He is so much bigger than we can even fathom. And this instance just reminded me of my own hypocrisy within the Way.

I don't know. I'm still digesting this. It's such a little thing but it made me think how awesome God is and how he works. In a nutshell...

I was at Jewel this morning, picking up a few things before work (I just got home like 20 minutes ago) and there is this annoying woman who seems to be blocking my pathway at every turn. Shopping cart blocks. You know, I'm like SIGH. What IS it with this woman. lol. And then...to top it off, she just edges me out in the cashier line. I almost laugh out loud. And I swear I thought, just for a quick moment mind you, maybe the Lord is putting her in my path for a reason, lol.

Anyway, we chatted for just a bit, and she seemed to be a really nice lady. Then I was thinking, well, I guess lesson learned is I shouldn't be such a witch about people I don't even know. So she's all packed up and she left. Then my turn came, and I left about 5 minutes later. Well, I just finished loading the car, when I see the young bag guy walking towards me with something in his hand. He says, Did you leave your wallet? And I'm like OH MY GOSH! I DID! And I took the wallet, and then I'm like..This isn't my wallet! I then reach into my back pocket and show him the credit cards I brought with. That's how I carried my money this morning. And then I'm like, OH MY GOSH! IT was the lady in front of me! And he goes, do you know where she went? I just laughed at him.

THAT MOMENT, this car came pulling in the space behind us, and the SAME LADY gets out, looking very confused and checking her purse! I yelled at her, DID YOU LOSE YOUR WALLET? And she looked at us with the BIGGEST sigh of relief on her face. And I told her, Thank this guy! He came running out after me!

But see, if it was the whole way that God set this up. I believe He KNEW this lady was going to leave her wallet behind, or at least knew she had things on her mind and it was a probability. He kept shoving her in my face, aggravating me so she was ingrained in my memory, then I chatted with her in the line, the young guy came out after me, and she returned just at the right time and I remembered her! IT WAS SO COOL!

I also for some reason took note of the car she was driving, and it was an older sort of beater model, I'm just saying that because something told me in my heart this lady was struggling as it was and didn't need the extra stress of losing her wallet. Well who does, for that matter, but anyway...

I know it's just a little thing. But sometimes I get the biggest kick out of the littlest things, because it just shows how much He cares about every aspect of our lives.

Okay, thanks for reading my boring story. But I'd love to hear anything that anybody else has. Just little things, you know? Doesn't have to be Angels with flaming swords appearing or anything. />

Do "Christian" puppeteers qualify for this thread?

HERE

:blink:/>:blink:/>:blink:/> Good grief waysider! What a nut.

I saw that show, last Tuesday night, and it really was unbelievable. Wowza. Especially the priest who did the double murder at the funeral home, then hung himself outside the rectory. I mean, Stephen King couldn't think this stuff up, seriously. :wacko:/>

Okay! Now the name rings a bell, lol. Happy memorial day to all. Doggie and me are leaving for a doggie activity day at the arboretum. I guess it's up for grabs as to who and when goes next? :)