Oakspear

Interesting take on the rain falling on the "unjust". While not speaking for my non-Christian brethren, I would not disagree that certain principles and behaviors exhibited by those who don't believe are "godly", just that they are not exclusively so. The same actions can be described as godly by a god believer, and described otherwise by a disbeliever in a god. But I can see why, from your point of view, you hold the position that you do. It's a way of making apparently contradictory things fit together. We all do it. You find a way to explain why there seems to be no difference in the lives of those who pray and those who don't, while I might find a way to explain why an apparently miraculous event takes place. Of course, the difference is that I'm right ;) [Oakspear ducks to avoid heavy object thrown his way] You're right, of course

Not all agree Not all agree that it's "the Word" Why would you be surprised that some (most) Christians believe that Jesus is God. There are scriptures that back up that position, and there are scriptures that back up the position that he isn't. This is wrong according to your opinion. Sounds like when Wierwille and Martindale suggested that those believed differently weren't really Christians. very few churches teach that Jesus is the Father, even while teaching that he is God. Neither do the terms "Gift Ministries", "Sonship Rights", or "Abundant Sharing".

Miiiiike: You're the one who brought up the "conspicuous absence from history", not me. You're the one who saw significance in Timothy's absence from it, not me. Larry: You make a good point about historical documents. As such, not every document that dates from a particular time period can be taken as "truth" about that time period. A good example from the biblical era is an inscription by the King of Moab detailing how he obliterated Israel (King Omri maybe) and wiped them from the face of the earth. This statement is demonstrably false, not only from biblical evidence, but from other sources as well. Moab employed a hyperbolic public relations man to pump up the king and the kingdom (I think his name was Tony Snow ).

Put that way Mike, most of the bible is non-historical. One would not expect Timothy to have made a splash outside of church circles since Christianity was not yet "official" in the empire. I don't think any of the bishops of Rome were even noticed by secular sources until the 300's, maybe later. Timothy's absence from secular history cannot be read into. It means nothing. All of the apostles, including Paul "vanished" after their mention in the bible.

yeah...and sometimes the morally inferior flame you... Since when is challenging an unsupported opinion flaming? John, you give as good as you get, so get off your high horse. It's a discussion forum...

So what's your point? That you're trying to change and we should cut you some slack? Or that you're going to be hard on people regardless and you want to let us know that you don't give a crap if anyone thinks so? You're being too hard on people? So stop. What the heck are "dirt sales"? Or do you mean "dirt sells"? That would make sense. Of course it's piracy. "Piracy" being a hyperbolic way of saying it's plagiarism, which has been demonstrated so many times that I feel like I'm having flashbcaks. Wrong. Selected quotes atributed to the author would not violate copyright, nor would descriptions of same. Right. make an unsupported (or unsupportable) statement and then say that you don't have time to present evidence to back up your assertions. More flashbacks. WordWolf always backs up hiis assertions and positions. Why he should he do your work for you? Yeah? So what?

No. I doubt that I can be...

Timothy, despite what Wierwille and Martindale taught, isn't absent, conspicuously or otherwise from recorded history. Look him up in any Church encyclopedia, or for that matter Wikipedia, and you'll see references to him as a bishop in Ephesus. The TWI party line was that Paul was the head of the church and Timothy was his successor, but it doesn't appear that way to me from a straight reading of the bible.

I really enjoy using hyphens; semi-colons too.

I never pray. Not that I think it hurts, or that it never works, but that I don't see any difference between the people who do and the people who don't. The rain falls on the just and the unjust and the prayer-full and the prayer-less. I also wondered what I would do when things "went south". I had some surgery last year that could've gone badly; I was never even tempted to pray: everything went fine. I also was in a car accident where if the impact was a few inches farther back I could have been killed or seriously injured. No prayer. Not a scratch. If other people pray, that's fine for them, I hope it works out well for them.

Gee...I thought that you stood approved before me ...after all, I did confer you with your doctorate Why is there an ex-Way site? Specifically this site? Because there are people still "in" who are just a nudge away from getting out, because there are those who, although out, still hold much harmful thinking in their minds and are this close to seeing the great big wonderful world of possibilities out there. Because no one can hash over and think through the pros and cons of TWI doctrine than ex-wayfers (no disrespect to John Juedes who posts here) and help other ex-wayfers think things through. My NBW wife and parents don't have the background to discuss what we discuss here: you guys and glas do. Even the people who I regularly disagree with have taught me a thing or two or three.

It's rude (in most situations) to correct someone's grammar, however, however proper grammar and spelling makes it easier to be understood. If you want to be unclear in your communication, why communicate?

Mine is the most common coat of arms for "Joyce", which is my last name.

Thanks for the wishes (ex-C ) Dmiller...Leinies...my favorite...did I tell you that I have Jale Leinenkugel's autograph?

No, but I've thought about making it part of the package. What stops me is that I don't think that I'm qualified to pass judgement on people's fitness to marry. There is a bill in the Nebraska legislature to increase the marriage license fee from $15 to $100 unless the couple participate in 8 hours of counselling.

I agree with your asessment of live Takit vs. recorded. I thought atht the studio cassette was pretty weak, but I thought that they were great when i saw them in Cheyenne and Minneapolis in 1979 & '80

No one's asked to see my certyificate or I.D. yet, and interestingly enough, the state doesn't check to see if the minsiters signing all of these marriage licenses are actually minsiters. Works fine.

Been there..once 9 months after 9/11 and again 2 years later. Blasphemy!

I'm in the phone book and also in a magazine that advertises and rates local businesses.

You assume correctly. ULC Ministers are considered legal. No registration is necessary. Regulations vary from state to state. Actually all it takes for a marriage to be legal is my signature and the signatures of two witnesses on a marriage license issued by the State of Nebraska. Technically, no ceremony is even needed. IMHO, even requiring someone to be "ordained" is an anachronism. Why not allow anyone to perform a wedding ceremony? In effect, that's what they do, since I've certianly not had any training or schooling, but I need the piece of paper to be legal.

Maybe Gawd changed the lights for you...

The seed of the idea may have been planted when Raf officiated at Steve! and Cindy!'s wedding a few years ago. My wife mentioned soon afterward that she thought that I would be good at performing weddings. Just for fun I got an on-line ordination through the Universal Life Church and put an ad in the phone book as a wedding officiant. I've done 4 weddings so far this year and have a fifth lined up. There are a lot of folks out there who don't belong to churches yet don't want to go the courthouse route. My first ceremony was for a couple where the guy was an inactive Jehovah's Witness. They wanted a JW ceremony, but they couldn't get married at the Kingdom Hall due to his status and the fact that his fiancee wasn't a JW. I did a little research into JW vows and did a great ceremony. Last month I was called at my regular job by a couple where the man had cancer and had to be at the Mayo Clinic the next day. I did a ceremony on their lawn at 11:00PM at night. What a rush!

I'll be on Long Island from Wednesday night through Friday evening next week (6/20-22) visiting my parents. Unfortunately I don't envision having the time to visit any of you New York Grease Spotters while there, maybe next time I'll have more vacation time to burn! Mom & Dad live out in Port Jefferson Station, which if I remember correctly is a long way from any of youse. Funny coincidence, my oldest son and his girlfriend are going to be driving out on Tuesday to be in a wedding, he didn't know I was going to be there at the same time until he called me for his grandparents' phone number

Right you are dm How about a slight change: Jonny found sincere provocation, at the liquor store's check out station. Seeing *Made in Vagina*, on a t-shirt it kinda, Made him want to start pontificatin' Yeah, I know...picky, picky