Oakspear

True George. Speaking in tongues frequently is an "ecstatic" experience, for people who are caught up in the emotion of their preceived connection with their god(s). Perhaps the early Christians were simply doing what other excited, newly converted religionists had done and ecstaticly spoke in tongues. later, biblical writers attepted to codify it and fit it into the big picture.

"You don't know me well enough to insult me" is a line I have used on occassion.

Indeed it does...and the heads up from you saved me considerable grief

the point was that they didn't make it once. The folks who killed Jesus, assuming that the gospels are accurate, lived about 2000 years ago.

Seriously, what's the point? I'm not just talking about TWI's perspective, but why is in the bible at all? All of the other supernatural or phenomenal occurences seem to have a purpose: miracles, healings, discerning of spirits, revelation, prophecy, etc. They all have an obvious and tangible benefit. They could all be observed & measured. What about tongues? Couldn't God have come up with a way of "building up the inner man" that didn't involve incomprehensible babbling? Sure, God could do whatever he wanted, but don't you assume that he makes sense?

The people who wrote the article didn't kill their "savior", nor did any modern Jews.

Like any other kind of turd...just froggier

While Wierwille never taught that SIT was a prerequisite for salvation, there were always people who drew their own conclusions; not Wierwille's fault.

On a couple of other threads currently floating around there are accusations that several posters weren't really in TWI, occassionally I think so of some of the "drive-bys" myself. And we all have posters who we "trust" and those who we don't. What's the difference? Usually we're anonymous, and even when not, it's often not a 100% certainty that folks are who they say that they are. Do we gravitate toward those who agree with us? Laugh at our jokes? Those we knew in the "real world"? What's your criteria?

Worth seeing.

Thanks everybody...and happy birthday to your son, Lifted Up, who I remember well.

I rarely discount someone's personal experience. What I question on occassion is the source or the reason. Someone was sick yesterday, today they're not. Kind of hard to argue with that. What you'll hear me disputing is that it was prayer or chanting or energy work or Penta water that necessarily did it. It is my observation that folks will credit whatever their "higher power" is for the good things in their lives. Christians credit God, reiki practicioners credit reiki, Wiccans credit the goddess, Art Bell credits aliens! Often the results are indistinguishable from each other or from random chance.

Just for the record, since I started what I thought would be an innocent, fun, thread that turned into a food fight: I don't think country music is horrible, although I'm not a big fan of either top 40 country or Way Productions country I don't think that Way Productions musicians were bad, most seemed pretty competant at the very least, some were downright brilliant IMHO High Country Caravan was hokey, and was infected by interference by non-musicians who couldn't even recite a poem, which detracted from whatever playing and songwriting talent those folks had. I like bluegrass, I like some forms of country. I dislike mainstream country. In the movie Be Cool they put together a music video that was supposed to be bad. When I watched it I was reminded of High Country Caravan.

I don't think that healing is something that one can corece from God or the universe or the goddess or whatever. It's not something that can be invoked by formulaic praying or meditating or imbibing the correct nutrients. It's part and parcel of the cycle of life and death and renewal. Be glad when you get it, chill out when you don't

She hasn't posted in a while, her handle is "Oakmom"

Not the message or the lyrics themselves, dmiller, just the cheesy production values Have you ever seen Be Cool?

Allan, don't misunderstand me, I have no problem with people who believe all or part of PFAL. Some of the people here at GS who I have met personally and have a lot of respect for still hold to PFAL, at least in part. What I have a problem with is mindless acceptance of anything, including PFAL. Nobody wants a complete statement of beliefs from you. But you spend a lot of time here at GS bashing and belittling other folks' beliefs. The sum total of your reasons for this is that they are different than your beliefs; and the basis of your beliefs is that VP Wierewille said so. Or so it appears from your posts.

I was watching "Be Cool" tonight and checked out the special features section where The Rock as the gay bodyguard Elliot Wilhem sings "You Ain't Woman Enough To Take My Man". All I could think of was High Country Caravan

Must be nice not to have to think about what one believes.

Sorry too! I didn't get the humor. My bad, as the Jesus-loving high school kids say.

In checking back I did see references to Z turning away "from his captors" as he was carried out on a stretcher. No reference to "Jesus-loving" Marines, or an opportunity to "get saved".

If you have the information, great, post it or a link. Of course, that doesn't mean that Sir Guess or anyone else here believes everything in those creeds, but it might be some relevant information. Better than your usual attacks-without-substance. However, not everyone is as shocked as you are at beliefs that fall outside the PFAL pale, or even outside the Christian norm (whatever that is ). You deride certain posters for their beliefs, but you seldom if ever explain why you find these beliefs laughable, or lay out what specifically is wrong with them. What does that mean?

Not a bad idea. I was steered toward the others in this unofficial group by other posters. It would be great bto have a sacntuary of sorts for those in this situation.

There are certain physical types which will get my attention, and are easy on the eyes, for sure. For me, what makes a woman sexy is the attitude that she's sexy, and her thinking that I'm sexy. In other words it's the mutual chemistry. When I met my first wife I thought she was very sexy. In the several years before we divorced I thought otherwise, although she didn't look very different. the difference was that we hated each others' guts!

Martindale would always claim that we peons misunderstood Wierwille's "heart" regarding the things that he changed, and that what he was changing was not what Wierwille taught, but our misunderstanding and misapplication of it. When he did change something that was too obvious to explain away in that manner, he told us that we were a research minsitry and we should expect to change when we got "new light". A lot of the events that were eliminated, as well as landmarks like the House of His Healing Presence, were done away with because he accused us of making idols of them. Toward the end there was a real hostility on the local level toward the "old grads", people who remembered the "old days" because they were there. I'm sure that this came from the top. Despite the public recognition of people who had "stood" for 20, 25, 30 + years, the collective wisdom of people who had been around the ministry block a few times was derided.