jen-o

sirguess, not a problem... (i really do not have any expectations of how much someone should engage in conversation on a message board) actually, i have no expectatons at all (that keeps things easy) :) it just seemed that my disagreement with you caused the conversation to cease... but really, it's not a problem for me... we can always meet up some other time and place (if you like) peace, jen-o

dear cman, sadly, i do not think that sirguess is saying the same thing at all... however, we will never truly know... because i doubt sirguess will enter the conversation to clarify this, since he has abrubtly cut off all communication with me (and made it clear in a private message although he refused to tell me the reasons why) a few things have been said about this sort of thing on another thread... and i can only reiterate what oak said: it is frustrating when folks come to a discussion forum, and then refuse to hold a discussion... (well, that's a paraphrase) :) peace, jen-o

and if i may add... a proverb or a parable may have a surface meaning with a truth readily available to all, but it is via the Holy Spirit that we are given a deeper understanding of that same passage... i do believe there are layers of truth in the bible, as well as a wide variation of application... (somewhat like midrash) peace, jen-o,

hi cman, this may be a matter of semantics... i think we might be thinking in different terms, but if i understand you correctly (and can put it into my own terms and words); then what i think you are saying is that elevating words of the bible (to the point of worship) brings no real understanding of the truths contained therein... (much like twi did, and tried to teach us to do by worshipping the dissected word; but the words remained dead on the page) because it is only via the Holy Spirit's teaching someone that the words in the bible come alive... because the words are spiritual... am i understanding you correctly? peace, jen-o

hey socks, i hear ya! thank God i spoke in tongues before i ever took the pfal class! (i didn't need no awkward blind date) LOL peace, jen-o p.s hey chuck, are you still out there?

i dunno... i would hate to think that i would never have moved on from twi (with it's limited and flawed doctrine and it's cultic practices, including idolatry)... even when i was involved with twi, it never consumed my life... and it never was about vpw or the organization for me... so i doubt that i would have remained in twi's stagnant pool of water... there is just sooo much more beyond twi...

hey roy! you're really having fun with this youtube stuff... :D i'm technologically challenged, so i wouldn't have a clue how to put anything up on youtube, but i think you are doing a great job (with the pics and all) and you have a great speaking voice... :) peace, jen-o

watered garden, i don't know why i am shocked (nothing should shock me anymore), but i can't believe that ignorant twerp told you that "the God in Christ in you would die"... (and he was happy about it) =:~o first off, God NEVER dies! (and it is the height of arrogance and heresy to claim such)... this guy is so full of pride that it sounds like he thinks that HE has the power of life and death... he has set himself up as his own "god" (just like many people did in twi) i don't usually go around saying this kind of thing, but i will here... i perceive that this guy is NOT born again... NO ONE with the spirit of God behaves this way - delusionally thinking that they have the power of life and death, and gleefully ready to use that power capriciously at their own whim and will... it is ludicrous to think that Gd would give that kind of power to ANY one... (and for the obvious reasons) personally, i believe that A LOT of people in twi were NOT born again... if people got born again, it was in spite of the organization not because of it [people were already born again, OR got the knowledge via reading the bible for themselves)... because the organization itself did NOT teach anyone how to get born again!... the organization basically IGNORED repentance (and it is impossible to get born again without repentance)... twi simply focused on the mechanics of speaking in tongues (which CAN be counterfeited)... twi was a cult, and it's "leadership" was a group of hedonistic, self-serving, self-made "gods"... it is a disgrace to true christianity! watered garden, i pray that you never believe one word that came out of the mouth of this ignorant, delusional, arrogant, pathetic little self-made mini-"god"... and i pray that he turns to the true God and repents... peace, jen-o

actually, cman, that was not directed at you... and i was not referring to you when i posted that... i am glad that you don't mind disagreements.... :~) i agree they are a part of life! peace, jen-o p.s. i was not insinuating anything about you, cman... p.p.s. obviously i disagree with your statement that using the bible is "not substantial"... :~D

no one is probably gonna like what i have to say next... but i am getting a real creepy feeling right about now... first lucy, and now cman and sirguess... it's that old "don't question us" or we will "mark and avoid you" feeling... [cman, the mark and avoid part doesn't apply to you, although you were basically telling me not to question the wisdom of sirguess] anyway, what's up with this?? this is a message board... people are allowed to comment on other people's publically posted messages... sirguess, if you want to ignore me, that's your perogative (although it does smack of "mark and avoid"), but i hope you are not telling me that i am suppose to ignore everything you write (cuz it sures sounds like you are directing me to NOT comment on anything that you post) it seems like there are a few people round these parts that do NOT like to be questioned about what they think and what they post... what, people can't handle others disagreeing with them?? i dunno; it just creeps me out...

motives? what motives? or intents? i don't think i've ascribed any motives to anyone... perhaps you could point out where i did that... cman, i appreciate that you've known sirguess for a while... and i see that you think highly of him... however, i'm NOT trying to rattle his cage... and i doubt HIGHLY that i'll need a seatbelt (LOL) i understand where he is coming from... i just TOTALLY DISAGREE... (and i think i'm allowed to do that) i know that you think he is extremely wise... however, i perceive that his wisdom is of the world (and he seems to be coming from an eastern mystic perspective) it appears that you've assumed that i have not considered this worldview before (but you would be in error) i have considered many alternative worldviews prior to subscribing to a biblical worldview, so i am not sure what you mean when you state that "looking outside my own thinking would help"... help what?? peace, jen-o oh, btw, what do you mean "the spirit is on the move"??

sirguess, are you saying that we are "god"??

i was told i was rebellious!

hi sirguess, sorry it took me so long to get back to you (or maybe you didn't want me to get back to you) LOL yes, of course, everything is all good... and peace! i did want to say though that i was not trying to be uncivil... i was just posting my opinion on stage theory as it relates to "faith"... although i did state the theory was a "bunch of crock", i also told you the reasons why i thought this way... and why i came to this conclusion, so it wasn't a case of me just slinging mud... i used the term just once, but it seems it really stuck in your bonnet (so to speak)... just because we don't agree doesn't mean that i am uncivil... and i certainly didn't call you any names or attack you personally... what i said was directed at the theory... (in fact, you got more personal than i did by telling me that i had set myself at the top of a spiritual hierarchy)... but i'm not complaining... i still believe that there is a world of difference between the event of conception and the event known as birth... and i am aware of mat. 1:20... it is the ONE and ONLY instance where the word "gennao" was translated into the english language as "conceived"... and i don't think that the english translation accurately conveys what is going on in this verse... in light of the 50 (or so) other uses of gennao, mat 1:20 is letting us know that Christ coming into the world is NOT the same as when other humans are "conceived"... in other words, christ did not come into the world via "conception"... He was not the result of an egg and sperm... He was the Word made flesh, and as such, His existence was "gennao" from the womb... the word "gennao" connotes "existence" and comes from the root word "ginomai" which means: to come into existence, to begin to be, to receive being... whereas we come into existence as human beings at our births, this verse is showing us that Jesus had a unique beginning as a human being (as the Word made flesh)... when john the babtist was "conceived", the scripture uses a different word: sullambano (in luke 1:24 & 1:36)... the scripture makes a distinction between Jesus and other men... why?... because i believe that the scripture is telling us that Jesus is God... Jesus is the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God, the Word was made flesh... and therefore, the word "gennao" is used in this verse instead of the word "sullambano"... i originally wasn't going to get into all of this because i did not think it was germane to the discussion... but since you brought it up (by referring to this ONE unique instance where the word "gennao" was translated "conceived"), i don't mind talking about it... :P anyway, the point is that "conception" and "birth" are two very different things (according to the scripture anyway)... and mat 1:20 actually emphasizes that point (contrary to what you posted which seemed to suggest that because "gennao" was translated into the english word "conceived", that somehow changed the definition of the word "gennao" (which it does NOT)... it merely points out the distinction between Jesus and other human beings) as always, it's nice chatting with you... :) peace, jen-o

hey twinky, do they really know who gets what? i have only contacted one person (via e-mail) who had offered the dining room table and chairs... we later exchanged phone numbers, and she offered me a desk, too... but that has been the extent of my involvement so far... i do understand what you are saying about it being a site for sharing, and i do have things that i can put up as an offer (and i think i will do that soon) because i don't want people to think i am just taking things from the site... although, as you know, the things that i am taking are not for me, but for the homeless ministry... i do love the concept and think it's a wonderful site!... peace, jen-o (edited to add p.s.) p.s. belle, maybe it depends on the moderator of each individual group as to whether or not you need to give away 3 things first or how much information you are required to give...

watered garden, thanks for the advice! i did not know about this because i have not had a dog for over 20 years... we have had multiple cats, and have always just left the food bowl down (and full of food)... and i used to do the same thing with my other dogs (and never had a weight problem)... but the vet told me about this yesterday... and so now i will be feeding her on a schedule (so she doesn't get overweight)... :) labs do have great personalities and gentle dispositions! she is a real sweetheart... :wub: thanks again, jen-o

hi belle, i just signed up 2 weeks ago, and all they wanted was an e-mail address... but then, i haven't posted a "wanted item" yet... i do need to do that though because i want to find a bike for someone at the homeless ministry... so, hopefully, they don't ask me to give 3 things away before i can do that... (i give things away all the time, but they usually go to the homeless) anyway, i'll let you know what happens... peace, jen-o

well, it looks like it's gonna be "hershey" :D that's the name she responds to best... in fact, she ignored the name "mocha" but got all excited when we called her "hershey" so hershey it is! thanks, everybody, for all your help in choosing her name! btw, she went to the vet today for her 1st check-up and set of shots... (she's 8 weeks old today, and 13lbs) and she got a clean bill of health, along with a free bag of puppy food and a rawhide chew... :) jen-o

heheheheh... i was a wow in 1981, and i'm nice (well, sometimes) LOLOL...

hey roy! i was also able to listen to part 1 after i was done listening to this part... and i wanted to say that i think you did a really nice job putting up the various pictures while you were speaking... i also wanted to say that i absolutely agree with you that twi focused on a materialistic "abundant" life while ignoring the spiritual side of it... you are quite correct that this was part of the lure to get people involved with the organization... twi did the same thing that every other seeker-friendly church does... appeal to people's self-interest and promise them the moon... little did people know that when they didn't get what they were promised (insert green card promises here), then they would be blamed for their lack of operating the law of believing... as you noted on your tape, twi was in it for the money... and they tried to sell the Word of God while bullying people into buying it (by saying things like: if you really wanted to know God's will, you would take this class, buy these tapes, go to this conference, etc. etc.)... let me just say that i currently attend a little church where ALL classes are FREE, ALL conferences are FREE, ALL tapes & cd's of every service are FREE, and if you don't have the money for any book they stock, it's FREE!... the pastor has also put out a 2 year class on the life of Jesus Christ (with the events of His life in chronological order) and they send it all over the world (one CD per month) for FREE (and it is sent postage PAID) because he wants to get the Truth out and is NOT looking to make money... (not so with twi or the twi offshoots) i also want to add that i agree with you (though you didn't want to come out and say it)... but i agree that twi is an anti-christ organization... because the word "anti-christ" does not only mean "against Christ", but it also means "in the place of Christ"... and twi and its leaders set themselves up to take the place of the Lord Jesus... instead of Jesus being the source of counsel, advice, direction, guidance, etc. etc., the organization of the "way" wanted to be the source of these things and taught its people to look to men they classified as "leadership" for these things... not only was Jesus not behind this organization, He HATED this nicolaitan set-up... thank you, roy, for posting these things on youtube... peace, jen-o

whitedove, i am not one to stick my head in the sand... so i am gonna judge (discern) the things that i see and hear in this life (whether folks like that or not) so what if he was a wow in 1975? that doesn't tell me a thing about him! but his website speaks volumes... and from looking at it, i know the following things: he idolizes vpw... (along with a couple of other guys that he calls "heroes") he promotes the emerging church (and is clueless about its true nature)... he is blown about with every wind of doctrine (prosperity gospel, social gospel, christian pop-psychology, diet fads (including the healing power of green smoothies), and a very self-centered, laodicean perspective in general) he doesn't know how to teach... (possibly because he just rehashes what others say, or perhaps this stuff is all in his brain in a jumbled, disorganized fashion, or maybe because he really thinks in this baby-like (i would call it infantile) manner... and quite possibly all three) oh, and i could add delusional... because he claims to have captured some secret biblical evidence on his dvd's that most people have never heard of... [if you believe that, i've got a bridge....] whitedove, you may think that he is a "nice" guy; i think he is a lost soul... peace, jen-o

dear roy, yes, i do understand that blaming God is a stage that some people go thru (hopefully, it is temporary... as in your case) and sometimes we get mad at God, until we realize that the problem was not God, but rather that we had placed our trust in men and a man-made organization... and some of us do come to realize that God was not behind that organization, and so we cease blaming God for the things men have done... God does understand all of this, and He understands us better than we know our own selves... :) peace, jen-o

it's people like this that give true christians a bad name... this guy's "teachings" are so over-simplistic (to the point of being infantile).. i wouldn't teach a 2nd grader this way... there is absolutely no substance to his "messages"... no wonder his doctrine is full of holes, and quite frankly, all over the place... it reminds me of an adhd puppy... just bumbling thru life, distracted by every wind of doctrine... part of the problem may be this guy's obvious idolatry toward vpw... another part may be that he is oblivious to the true nature of the emerging church movement (which he promotes)... yet he is totally unaware that the emerging church is laodicean in nature (and not even born again!) this guy couldn't find his way out of a papersack... it's people like this that give true christians a bad name... and make me want to gag!

dear roy, i am glad that you no longer blame God for what the "way" ministry did... and i am glad that twi did not succeed at getting you to hate God... peace, jen-o

cman, i suppose you are referring to me as a "bible thumper" LOL (hey, i've been called worse) LOL anyway, i do not believe that "being born again" is a process... i believe that it is a gift! if it was a process, then we would be saved by our own works, because it would take our own energy, effort, intelligence, ability, etc. to work thru the process (or to work thru the stages of the process)... but we are saved by faith, not works, lest any man should boast (about ANYTHING, including how much more "spiritual" one is OR how much further along in the "process" one is... it is true that in the natural world, stages exist between conception and birth; but that does not mean that the spiritual new birth follows a pattern of stages... what is true in the natural world can be quite different in the spiritual world... btw, you wrote: someone's book??my answer to that is: 1 Thess. 2:13 (i too have received the word of God as it is in Truth, it is NOT the word of men) this is the way that i have received it; you may not have done the same... and if you have not, i do not expect you to understand where i am coming from nor understand my worldview... peace, jen-o