dizzydog

Page 3-4 of the Advanced Class Syllabus: GOD?S IMMUTABLE WORD Acts 8:35 Then Phillip opened his mouth , and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. TRADITION VERSUS TRUTH. Everything is judged in the light of the integrity and accuracy of God?s Word. Tradition may transgress the Word of God. The Word speaks more loudly than anyone could speak on its behalf. Whenever and wherever the Word speaks in any category, it is always true. DARE TO BELIEVE - GO TO THE FOUNTAINHEAD OF TRUTH Circumstances will alter situations. But circumstances will never alter the Word. Compare Matthew 10:5,6 with Acts 13:46, 47; 14:27 Compare Luke 9:2,3 with Luke 22:35,36 Compare Romans 8:38, 39 with Romans 11:13,22 Page 4 BE WORD CONDITIONED THE GREATEST SECRET IN THE WORLD TODAY IS THAT THE BIBLE IS THE REVEALED WORD AND WILL OF GOD. John 10:10 Jesus Christ always represented God, and he represented the truth of God?s Word. TRUTH NEEDS NO DEFENSE Page 1 of the foundational sections of the advanced class syllabus. THE WORD OF GOD IS THE WILL OF GOD John 10:10b THE GREATEST SECRET IN THE WORLD THE BIBLE IS THE REVEALED WORD AND WILL OF GOD POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING IS A CLASS ON KEYS (This is a direct contradiction of what you just wrote Mike) Page 2 The Word means what it says and says what it means. (He has already declared that the Bible IS the revealed word and will of God. This does not look too fragmented to me.) Page 6 THE GOD BREATHED WORD The Bible as the Word of God is God-breathed 2 Timothy 3:16 Page 10 Spiritual weakness and inability can be due only to improper spiritual food or neglect of the Word of God. The neglect can be accounted for by the fact that the BIBLE is not understood. The improper use can be attributed to wrongly dividing the Word of God. Failing to understand the Word, we neglect its reading and thus succumb to the doctrines and theories of men, and are blown about with every wind of doctrine and sect. Most men are held spellbound by the fleeting shadows of a few great names rather than the Word. Too many of us believe what we receive from man, and we endeavor to have our beliefs confirmed by certain selected texts from the Bible. _______________________________ Is this too vague for you Mike? I can hardly wait to see the next response.

As much as I would like to step out of this Mike I will give you credit for one thing, you know how to invoke a response. Your Modus of Operandi is I'm right no matter what anyone says. Of course there are silly little things like facts and quotes that you ignore. Guess I struck a nerve there Mike-o. I have read a number of your entries to this post, roughly 4-5 pages. Enough to see that your mouth is bigger than your knowledge. You assume much my friend. Who I am or where I came from is a bit irrelevant. Suffice to say I am a son of God who once was as dead in trespasses and sins as you were. You have yet to directly respond to my questions and statements. How about one question Mike. What determines a persons mastery of PFAL? Give a simple answer to this question. It could be long, thats fine, but one that makes sense, scripturally based and explains exactly what VPW meant when he made the statement. If you can do this I will be happy to come back and respond to you. I do indeed remember this direction from him. All too well. You can get as accusative as you want with me, the thing is you still have not been able to truly answer to my posts. You say you bring me Dr's exact words. Well bring them. The only thing you keep repeating is that we were told to master the material. Do you have anything else to say from him? You have yet to reply to his words that I have reminded you of with my rusty memory. You have a lot of anger Mike. Not exactly one of the fruits of the spirit. Or is your version of Gods Word devoid of the fruit of the spirit? Be careful what you ask for Mike, you might actually have to change your mind and leave your broken cistern. One thing, I have yet to disagree that we should have mastered PFAL. I see two issues with you Mike. Your assertion that people should master PFAL and your assertion that PFAL is now a replacement for the scriptures. That Corps/Clergy who messed up your head years ago must have left some pretty serious scars, that's too bad, Mike. It must be rough living with an open wound for all of these years. How about it Mike? Are you going to give a clear, understandable response here or am I in for another round of assumptions, accusations and vile? I bet you cant do it.

OK one more time... The reason I am done with this subject is because arguing with Mike is like arguing with someone who is convinced the sky is green. There is no way to debate with them because not only do they deny the facts they wont even acknowledge them when they are presented. Sure I could cite page, chapter and paragraph. What would be the point? Anyone who has taken PFAL can remember VPW making the statements I cited above. Mike did not even acknowledge them. He wont talk specifics, just generalizations that he has cooked up in his head. Mike, while I apologize for the pig reference I do think you are an internet troll. This is not meant as an insult it is a term used all over the net for a person who just wants to stir things up, not truly debate with facts. This seems to be your MO. Prove me wrong. I dont think you will. As far as a choice between which has more credibility, PFAL or the bible in my hands, I will trust the scriptures. Your assertion that the Bible is a fragmented remnant of God's Word is a weak argument devoid of facts. Even if everything you say about PFAL is true where is your proof? As I said before if you disclaim it you dont have to believe it. The only thing backing up your endless assertions is the air behind your words, or in this case your fingers. Thats it, now I really am done...

In continuing to read these posts I am convinced Mike is a troll. He must be. He enjoys the mosh pit too much for it to be anything else. I have seen trolls on other boards and the one thing they all have in common is a wierd pleasure at having their posts responded to and also at stirring the pot with any statement that will get people worked up. These folks do this regardless of whether they believe what they write or not. Mike certainly fits this criteria. We have ten pages of proof. It's up to everyone here but the best thing to do with a troll is to ignore them. Don't wrestle with a pig because the pig loves it and all you get is dirty.

Mike wrote: "This is a much more substantial foundation from which to see God's Word than the KJV or any other 5-senses scholarly attempts to reconstruct the Bible in our language and culture and time. God has provided us this BETTER something to stand on, and so I talk about it. It got lost so it needs to be talked about, or you need it to be talked up around you. I think this is not immediately easily entreated for you because you are rusty on the material." ________________________________________ But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye received another spirit, which ye have not received, OR ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him (text reads "bear with me "). 2 Corinthians 11:3-4. Sound familiar? This verse is what I spoke about with regard to another gospel. This is not a good thing, Mike. By the way there are more texts than KJV. Even Dr. taught us that where God's Word contradicted the word of VPW we should believe God's Word. Written right in PFAL. Would you like me to give you the page? PFAL is not God's Word. It is not even a text of God's Word. VPW declared the scriptures God breathed from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21. I did not see every verse of the scripture written anywhere in the PFAL materials. Show me where PFAL is declared God breathed? And I mean someplace other than one of your previous posts. Your assertion that my knowledge of PFAL is rusty is a presumption on your part. Or are you going to say that because I am challenging your statements I must not have your level of understanding of the material? Be careful what you assume. If you really want to debate the validity of your statements, from the PFAL materials, I can do it. Much better would be for you to agree that God's Word is the only rule of faith and practice. Of course to do that would mean you would have to believe that statement from PFAL. You say that God has provided us this BETTER something to stand on contradicts God's Word and VPW's writings. Again would you like me to quote the material to you? You seem to have forgotten one of the greatest points in the class, HOW THE SCRIPTURE INTERPRETS ITSELF, not how PFAL interprets itself. To coin a phrase, chapter and verse for all of this Mike. God's Word declares loudly it's own credential. VPW, on the other hand, always declared his teachings and writing subject to God's Word. In short you are putting the cart before the horse. I like many here was hurt at one time in my life about what happened in TWI. When I finally went to God to work this out I realized I needed to have a relationship with God and his word again. I did what you suggested and studied the PFAL materials, and the Word, and dozens of other references and writers in my search to understand God's Word. This time I did not limit God's ability to reveal himself. Just as he promised in his word I have not been disappointed in my expectations. It is irrelevant who teaches it, God is the hero and God is the one who gives the increase. You say I am rusty on the PFAL material. It seems that you have grown rusty in your own understanding of God's Word, you also make statements that seem to indicate your own ignorance of what has been written in the very materials you are advocating. For the man who is fearful or unwilling to believe God's Word this is an easy out. Mastering the PFAL materials is not the same as standing on God's Word. As long as we are discussing mastering PFAL how will I know when I have mastered the materials? What is the goal in mastering the material? What is the credential for being a master of the material? Where is the simplicity in Christ in all of this? In short what does that mean to master PFAL? You wrote that in your own private life you read God?s Word directly a lot, think it a lot, and apply it a lot. It?s fun. It declares more about itself than this. Of course if you acknowledged this you would have to decide whether you want to believe it. Disclaiming it is an easy way avoid having to believe it. I am sure you will have a long litany of dribble to respond to my statements here. You also seem to have a problem giving direct responses to questions and statements from others. It seems that I have done exactly what I had originally not intended to do, get wrapped up in this. I am going to end my debates with this letter as I really dont want to continue arguing with you. I find your assertions foolish and if by some wierd twist of nature you are actually able to convince someone this is all valid then I have sorrow for this person.

Mike, Dismay? No. You talk a lot about the scriptures and speak very generally about what you believe certain things say in the gospels but rarely state specifically what the scriptures say. As far as my not seeing enough of the posts to understand what you have said; I read enough. You always make assertions without much basis scripturally, always with the promise that you will explain it later. God's Word is big enough to answer any questions we might have. You defend the PFAL materials as if they were the Word of God and yet you spend more time declaring the materials then you do God's Word. As I said I do not want to make this a long series of points counterpoints as I see how you try to get people wrapped up in your endless dialogue. Your words are not easily entreated. The are ambiguous and difficult to follow. This alone makes me question your assertions. God's Word is easily entreated. Think about it, if you really want to help people give them something to stand on, not scratch their head over.

Mike, I am new to this thread and I doubt I will post more than this one letter. It pains me to see the strife between all who have posted here. Indeed there are 9 pages of it. Thank God I did not waste my whole evening reading through every post. I think the one question I have about all of this is why is PFAL the subject of the thread? There are many of us who have done what you suggested and studied the PFAL materials after we left TWI. I have learned much since then. And learned primarily who I am in Christ. My identity is intact because of what I have learned about Jesus Christ in the Word and specifically the epistles. God makes it pretty clear and easy to understand. I read what you write and wonder if my 11 year old could learn anything from your posts about who he is in Christ and I have to say he would be lost in the first post. Even a child need not err therein. Your assertion that there is some group (OLG) who this thread is directed is a bit silly when you consider that God provided his son for the church, the whole church. There are not special groups within the body of Christ. One body, one head. Even if VPW was the man of God that you profess he was, why is there a small group within the larger body of Christ who are being blessed with a special level of understanding from God's Word (PFAL grads)? The Colossians had a similar problem with a group called the gnostics who felt that they had a special connection to God because of their advanced knowledge and the secret things they shared with a select few. Paul makes it very clear that the one thing they needed was what they already had, Christ. Even a child need not err therin. God does not want his grace revealed in a cloud of of facts, figures and points. At this point I would not even consider arguing what is in PFAL, I have seen things in God's Word that make some of what is in PFAL inaccurate. VPW himself used to say that when we teach one thing and find out later that we were wrong we correct the error, publicly. How long will it take us to get to the point where we can do this with the PFAL materials? There are many people who have quietly continued studying God's Word year after year and the one thing I can say is that God WANTS his grace known. It does not need to be revealed in a manner that takes years and years to begin to understand some of its depth. It can be understood and declared very quickly. This is death to life, how much deeper can you get? All of your posts about dichotomy and details have not proved in any greater way about God's Grace. You assert that the answers to the hurts that people are experiencing are within the PFAL materials. Assuming you are right why would we declare the PFAL materials rather than God's Word itself? Is not the point of PFAL to give the participants an opportunity to understand and have a relationship with God's Word? Is it not possible that there are people who have done this very thing? If I now have a relationship with God's Word should I take a step backwards to PFAL? And for those who have had their mouths soured by their experiences isn't God big enough to work with them and continue comforting their hearts and revealing his Word to them? Or is that not available anymore since the revelation in PFAL has now been revealed? Is the PFAL materials now the only way for this group to attain spiritual understanding? Kinda sounds like another gospel to me... Anyway thats my 2 cents worth...

anyone know where she is?

anyone know where she is?

captainbrady@yahoo.com I was at emporia the whole first year but was at HQ my final year. I left before you did tho' I left around October, right before the 3x5 cards were handed out. I think I was part of the reason for the 3x5 cards. I sorta told ol' craigo off on my way out the door...

do I know you?