dizzydog

Mike you wrote: "Many, and maybe even MOST posters here, . if Mark had ever read their posts, . would be thrown out of his funeral service if Mark could effect it." No Mark would do as he always did in life, love them all the more. As far as the rest of this thread you folks should be ashamed of yourselves. Mike should not be chastised for showing his regard for a man he respected. Perhaps this is the wrong place to slam Mike for his differences with you. I don't care that you think he deserves it. It was poor taste and disrespectful to the deceased, particularly if Mark Gluckin had a relationship with Mike.

I think I agree with both of you, not to sound like a certain politician who is running for president... I think about the things I was ignorant of in TWI and do feel a sense of betrayal. But then I think about my own behavior toward others and realize that I didn't get out of the situation without my own level of culpability. TWI was not a good place for a young man with raging hormones and plenty of willing partners. I don't say this to boast, I am rather embarassed about my behavior and I was perfectly justified by the doctrine of the day. I think about who I hurt and regret my actions to this day. I suppose I could say I didn't know any better but that wouldn't be entirely honest. Now I have a daughter and the thought of her being involved with a group like TWI, or meeting someone like me there makes me just about climb out of my own skin. I have other situations and other examples but that's not really the point. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This point was regularly glossed over in TWI.

All I can say is that the information about TWI's abuses has been available for decades. While I'm thankful that so many realized in recent years the problems in TWI; I wonder why they were so oblivious years ago. Certainly they were warned in the late eighties when such a mass exodus took place. Many of the folks who I have talked to who are such staunch crtics of TWI were also the same people who were marking and avoiding those of us who left before they did. All of sudden they are out and the language is all about what was done to them, but rarely about what they did to others. I know for me this was a hard pill to swallow and the greatest change in me didn't happen when I left TWI but rather when I finally allowed myself to start to be transformed by Christ. It's easy to be critical of everyone else but to turn that magnifying glass on ourselves is a different proposition.

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Georgio, I'm sorry that happened to you. It was truly an unfair situation and you were a victim. Having said that... Maybe it's time to move on. After all this was 23 years ago. I'm not sure any court would give you a case anyway.

Not to burst your bubble Hope R. but when I looked at their website last week they had their schedule posted from about six months ago. The absence of TWI's spot may be nothing more than the fact they haven't updated their site.

One more question. Why did VPW repeatedly encourage us to read the scriptures? And I mean specific encouragements like reading Jeremiah 50 times or The seven church epistles once a month (at least). You get so animated about what parts of PFAL we haven't done. Are you still reading these sections of the scriptures, and at the frequency he encouraged us to read them?

"Your analysis is good, but incomplete in the sense that you can’t go to a store and buy a “Word of Truth” book. You can buy a man-breathed attempt to reconstruct that “all truth” which was lost in the first century, but that’s all." Neither can you Mike. Of course the challenge of determining what we both consider to be the Word of God, and how God reveals to the workman what is the Word of Truth is the rub, isn't it? The spirit of God is required to understand the things of God. This is as true now as it was in the first century church. Of course I learned that by reading Romans. I already know you think that is unreliable. As you have pointed out, fortunately God is not bound by one specific set of writings to reveal his Word to the diligent workman. I figured you wouldn't give an honest answer. And, based on our previous dialogue, you know as well as I how much of your writings I've read. Sorry I even jumped in here...

what's that? you got cut off... can you hear me now?

Well, I guess I'll jump in here again. Mike, After all these months you've yet to clearly define what it means to master PFAL. You repeatedly criticize the lack of mastery but the thing that defines that mastery is what is lacking. Once again, please state, in simple terms what that means to master PFAL. A simple definition of mastery can be found in 2 Timothy 2:15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Here you have the how - Study; rightly divide The what - the word of truth The why - to shew thyself approved unto God; not to be ashamed The who - thyself (Timothy); a workman Now here's something I can look at to know how to master God's Word. Interesting how much information can be contained in such a short, simple statement. Paul didn't need to write volumes to give such a concise statement.

Here was my response. It looks like they have received a number of complaints, so much so they are sending a form response. ____________________ "We have recently implemented the procedure below. We however do not endorse any product or services of the featured companies or organizations on our broadcast. P.S. I am sincerely sorry for your negative experience, and we at BNC do not wish to be associated with any organization that is causing people pain." Doreen Stevenson Operations Manager Broadcast News Channel

Below is a copy of the letter I just emailed to this show. __________ Dear Terry Bradshaw and Staff, You recently showcased The Way International on your television show. I am writing to encourage you to investigate this organization (and any other you showcase) a bit more before you choose them as examples of "a non-profit organization diligently serving the community." I was involved with The Way International for many years and progressed through most of the training and classes they offered at that time, including their Way Corps leadership training program and two separate committments to the WOW missionary program. My whole family was involved; my parents, two of my brothers and their wives were all extensively involved, working closely with the very top leadership of The Way. None of us are involved now. There is only one reason for this, the organization is quite corrupt. A simple search of the internet or a nexus search of The Way International will reveal a long history of scandal and duplicity. The community of The Way International does more to serve the leadership of the organization than the other way around. Any person unfortunate enough to get involved with this ministry will quickly find themselves becoming deluged with a doctrine that has separated families, driven some members to suicide and driven many members to financial ruin. One example of this doctrine is the adamant requirement of it's followers to not be in debt, to include mortgages. While this message may be a good one in and of itself the ultimate purpose of this teaching is to force its membership to have more financial resource available to the ministry. Many members find themselves giving either more and more money to the ministry or more and more time (after all if you have no debt you have don't have to work as many hours at a secular job) only to find themselves excommunicated (or to use the terminology of The Way "marked and avoided") after their usefulness has expired. One older couple I know of devoted much of their life savings and labor to The Way International at it's headquarters in Western Ohio. They both found themselves struggling with physical infirmaties only to realize The Way had turned it's back on them, after costing them much of their life savings. They were told they were not believing God and were subsequently shoved to the side. They only receive teaching tapes now from the ministry. The reason being that they need enough doctrine to once again believe God and receive healing from him. Some circles say they are fortunate enough to even receive these tapes. One other man, who had been a longtime leader in The Way, lost his daughter in a tragic aircraft accident. Donna Martindale, the estranged wife of former President L Craig Martindale, declared publicly that this tragedy was the result of this man's disobedience to the doctrines of the The Way International. There is a laundry list of charges and coverups associated L Craig Martindale, the former President. While he has been summarily removed from power the hardheartedness and control so prevalent under his management is still very much in evidence under the new management. These incidents are but a sliver of the evidence available about this organization. Please consider these things and search for yourself if you doubt my veracity. Regards, XXXXXXX XXXXXXX, XXXXXXX

I went to the site, nothing about TWI but the schedule was about nine months old so they may not have the site updated. Here's the mission statement from the first page. "Terry Bradshaw's "Pick of the Week" BNC's Pick of the Week is a series of television segments aired on MSNBC. This compelling series highlights companies, enterprises, and organizations that represent the backbone of America's economy: the entrepreneur, the third generation business owner, and the Executive Director of a non-profit organization diligently serving the community." He may not even know much about TWI, someone may have just done a sales job on his staff to get some cheap publicity. There are a lot of companies/organizations listed here.

That would be Irving Fryer (Fryar?) He played with Tony Collins for the New England Patriots in the mid eighties. Tony and Irving were used badly by Loy Boy after they got involved with TWI. Their celebrity status was touted loudly and they were set up as poster children of sorts. Irving had his own problems. He was all over the news for some domestic abuse issues. The Patriots went to the Super Bowl in one of these years ( I think it was the Super Bowl or perhaps a playoff game. Regardless it was a big televised game.) and Irving was shown playing with a big bandage on his hand after his wife sliced his hand with a kitchen knife, alledgely to defend herself (I think). I think there was also some substance abuse issues with Irving. After the drug incidents with Tony and this with Irving suddenly they weren't the golden children anymore. L Craiger didn't want the ministry damaged by such scandals. If we knew then what we know now... One thing I would like to point out. We don't know that Terry Bradshaw is involved with TWI. Not doubting what you saw Rottie Grrl, we just don't know why his name was associated with it. I would think if they had a big name celebrity touting their wares he would be one of the first things you'd see on their website. Just a thought...

Hi Mike, How about this for a suggestion. Why don't you go back and give some honest answers to the questions already posted last year. There are a few I posted that you blew off, and I'm sure there others here who weren't privileged enough to have your spiritual perception give clarity to their questions as well. If you want to know what I'm talking about then you need to spend more time studying whats already been written, at least if you are an honest researcher. Oh and I would suggest you take Pawtuckets instructions seriously, most of what you post would be better posted on the doctrinal forum and he has the privilege to determine what's doctrinal (as a forum) and what isn't. DD

"Oh my God!" Agreed... I don't even know where to start. The battle scenes were this most remarkable battle scenes I've ever seen. A++

Ok, Ok, I don't want to ruin it for anyone...

Yes Faramir's father is a pip ain't he? He should be interesting in the next movie. I would imagine a pi**ing contest between him and Aragorn since Aragorn is the rightful king of Gondor. It's been a while since I read the book but if I remember right Faramir never brought Frodo back to Gondor. He let him go long before that happened. And I think in the book one of the things that Tolkien brings out is the fact that the ring took Boromir but not Faramir. Of course that rang true in the movie, Peter Jackson just added a bit to the story there. In the book a number of people were openly tempted with the ring, by Frodo. In Fellowship of the Ring, Frodo deliberately tempts Galadriel with it. She intially puts the screws to him when they show up at Lothlorien and he turns the tables on her. In the movie they showed him offering it to her but they didn't really explain why. Through the story he gets worn out by the ring but also becomes much smarter and more insightful the longer he has it. This is one of the things that eventually drives him insane. Only two more days now, already got my tickets. Here's a trivia question. We know in the movies who has two of the elvish rings, Elrond and Galadriel. There's a third, anyone know who has it?

I guess I'm hooked WAY (no pun intended) too deep. I own both extended versions and already have tickets for the 7:00pm showing on opening night. I also liked the scene when the trees (I guess they weren't the ents who were still making hay with Saruman) killed the Uruk Hai after they fled the battle with Rohan. I still don't like what Peter Jackson did with Faramir. He was much more benevolent in the book. Oh well, small potatoes overall. I think this series is great.

Anyone know where she is, what she's up to?

Joe fell asleep last month. It was sudden from a blood clot. He was walking on the beach on vacation and just dropped over. I happened very suddenly and he felt no pain. Pray for Ruthie and the family, it was a tough time. Thank God we have the Hope.

Wordwolf wrote: "Yes, this is PAWTUCKET's site. Mike is using bandwidth and memory Paw is PAYING FOR to compensate for his own refusal to make his own website and messageboard." Interesting point, I wonder about the ethics of using someone elses expenses to further ones agenda. Of course if God is telling me to do it then everyone elses idea of ethics is irrelevant. Chapter & verse please...

I think we are all bozo's on this bus. Of course how much effect does this forum have on life and living. I mean when I leave the computer my kids are there waiting for me to take them to the park or swimming pool and suddenly I barely remember what GS is anymore. Let alone some guy in California who has chosen to "master" the books on his shelf. It really doesn't bother me, anymore. For some reason it did when I first came here. How well do we really know each other anyway? Oh, and before I forget... HI GINGER.

I have to agree with Rafael on this. I am thankful that the information was given in TWI but it would have taken little effort to insure that references were given to those who had already done much of the research. VPW used the titles (masters, doctors degrees) he earned from academia. He should have been bound by the standards of education that gave him the titles. Namely referencing his sources. Argue all you want about the ThD but the Masters degrees were earned legitimately. He could not have gotten a degree that high without being trained in the proper methods of writing professional books and documents.

"Why not?" Pardon me, I forgot where I am for a moment. This is GS, EVERYTHING gets argued about. And Mike you think we can become likeminded BEFORE Christs return? yeah right...