OldSkool

12 hours ago, Rocky said:

SMH. We do NOT have "God's Word." Anywhere. There has not been discovery and/or verification of any original manuscripts.

Therefore, your declaration, which I quoted in this post, is nothing more than an exposition of your belief.

Geez... I wish you had emotional intelligence, legit critical thinking/analysis skills, and effective communication skills.

You can lump me in with Mike on this one because I believe we do have God's Word...I also lack emotional intelligence, etc because I stake my life in scripture and my all is God and his Son Jesus Christ.

4 minutes ago, Twinky said:

Here we go again.

 

Nah, Im bowing out before the cycle continues. Thanks for the reminder, nobody enjoys reading these twisted lengthy threads. 

43 minutes ago, Mike said:

I am not an expert on God.

I have gotten some practice at spotting where we grads (me included) tended to drift off and away from what we were taught.  

I am just trying to help.  If I were looking for ego strokes, I'd find many more of them elsewhere. 

Im a grad of every class they offered as of 2008 and am a way corps grad and went way disciple not once but twice....Im not drifting away from anything. Ive compared wierwilles words to scripture and they don't fit. That wierwille made them fit doesn't make it so. So when Im attempting to discuss these details with you so you could verify what Im telling you, you shut down and hardly ever consider what others are saying to you. Its your loss really but it sucks becuase you seem to be a good, well intentioned person, and I truly believe you love God the way you understand him.

14 minutes ago, Mike said:

I know they have nothing to do with each other.  That is why I put the word "and" between smart and trustworthy in my comment.  Maybe you failed to see that word.  Maybe you were blind to it; wanting to catch me in error so badly.

When BOTH trustworthiness and intelligence are both present in a person, THEN we can look at those smart trustworthy words from them, and know they accurately resemble the will of that person.

We use "their word is their will" all the time with people.

But for those whose conscience is seared with a hot hate for VPW, then they cannot see truth in "God's Word is God's Will."  Their minds are blinded by hate.

We apply this simple idea all the time to people, the idea that if they are smart and trustworthy, then their word is their will.  

OF COURSE it also applies to God!  

God is more trustworthy and more intelligent, so it applies more to him.

The Word of God is the Will of God !

I really like the simplicity of it, and how simply it shows me who has blinded their minds with hate.  

Only hate could reject "God's Word being God's will."

 

 

Maybe you think that you know that you know that you know and consider yourself an expert on God....humility...God resists the proud.

2 hours ago, Mike said:

With any human, it they are trustworthy and smart, then their words will accurately reflect their will.

I use this line in witnessing all the time.

Fantasy land.

2 hours ago, Mike said:

I've spent 20 years looking at information you think I don't look at. 

 

You don't know what I think and I don't know what you've looked at. 

7 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

I'm stealing this!

 

 

Thank you for considering my questions. I'm still thinking about it all...

YW!

And me too...Im eager to hear your conclusions...

40 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

A question I've been contemplating: Is obedience love?

Mike and victor seem to want to equate obedience with love. But obedience is about respect and honor. Love is something else, is it not?

Does love fear reprisal? Does love expect reward?

 

 

Well, 
I cant say foer certain where mike's confusion came into play but I think it's when he tried to apply loving God by keeping his commandments to loving people by doing their will and word. An extremely inaccurate comparison. Scripture states that to love God we keep his commandments...thats plain enough...but that doesn't apply to people in the same manner as was stated earlier. 

So is obedience love? When it come to God yes, but not people always. We ought to obey God rather than men. But we are to submit ourselves one to another so it can apply but not in a blanket statement sort of way.

But obedience is about respect and honor. Love is something else, is it not? Obedience respect and honor all go into loving God and keepong his will. Love can be something else, I.E. loving my wife. Thats an emotional love but carries a desire to make her happy and give my all for her benefit happiness. So thats definately different from loving God. So there seems to be some overlap here as stated earlier.

Does love fear reprisal? Scripture states that there is no fear in love but perfect love casteth out fear, so theres that. Im not sure love would fear reprisal because I wouldnt violate someone else by carrying out actions that would cause reprisal. At least not if I loved them. I guess....were getting into areas where Im a little murky on answers and thats good cause it's making me think...you can lead a horticulture but you cant make her think...oh oops...lol

Does love expect reward? I dont think it does, though recipricol actions may be appropriate. But when I give money to those in need I NEVER expect personal gain or benefit. But perhaps there are times where that's appropriate?

The way international relegates the love of God to table etiquette...so yes, this is a healthy discussion for anyone ever involved in the way international and has been deeply affected by their practices, like me.

I take it from Mike shutting completely down that he is here to lecture us on the merits of flappy and only wants us to return under the yoke of bondage inherent in anything wierwille. So when relevant information is introduced he can't look at it and won't discuss it because wierwille didn't verify the material....anywho...sad really...

53 minutes ago, waysider said:

I wonder if they had black lights to go with those posters.

Maybe a little patchouli burner on the coffee table.

May I coordinate refreshments?

How else can it be decided who can buy or sell unless its totally controlled?

16 hours ago, Mike said:

When they DID have access they were to make copies of parts to hang in their houses, and they were to talk about what they heard when the scriptures were being read.  THEY WERE TO DO THEIR BEST to get God's Word flowing in their minds, SO THAT they could love Him.

God gave a simple commandment to simple people so they could simply love Him  via His Word.   We can do better with Bibles

Hebrew 1:1,2

 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Mike, it says that God has spoken in divers manners. Divers literally means "different kinds."

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/divers?q=divers

So, while I am in awe of the AV1611 and other Textus Receptus Bibles, such as Geneva, Matthews, Tyndale, et. al., and while I believe the Bible covers the gamut on salvation and knowing what it is God wants us to understand, it is NOT the end of the story and God HAS not limited himself to communicating to his creation via the Bible. In fact, there are fake Bibles, there are books that Martin Luther removed from the Prostetant Canon that shouldnt have been removed. The  First Book of Enoch is missing and is directly quoted by Jesus Christ in the Gospels and in the book of Jude. Jasher and Jubilees are both referenced to give further insight on the historical details those books give. The Bible is not an exhaustive collection of every book (scroll, papyri, stone tablets, whatever) of scripture ever written. Some books have been lost. There are many Biblical Canons all over the earth and the books vary significantly. So to limit God to a book that men produced and say because it contains scripture that "THE BIBLE" is the end all be all is a serious misunderstanding of God and how he works.

BTW - You are imagining people in the Old Testament times framing scripture posters on their walls and such. Do you not understand the Mosaic Laws and the details they were to live under? Everything about them was to remind them of God and praise and worship his holy name. Their wardrobe, their feasts and celebrations, days and times of the year, weekly Sabbath, etc. While I can't authoratatively say that Moses didn't have a ministry theme poster on his tent walls I think I can pretty much guess it didnt happen and you are simply daydreaming to make your point.

17 minutes ago, Mike said:

I agree.

God's Word is God's will.

Loving God's Word means loving His will, which means loving lining up with and obeying His commands, as 1 John explains more than once.

When I talk about loving God's Word, I don't mean fake love, but real genuine love.  Genuine phileo for the OT believers.

Someone like a Pharisee would love UTILIZING the Word for status and power plays over people.  But such a fake lover would not get the message of the father who loved the prodigal son in the Gospels.  A fake lover would seize upon items in Corinthians, but see little utility in deeply  grasping and applying the contents of chapter 12.

A genuine lover of God's Word would want to do it the way 1 John describes.

*/*/*

BTW, I've heard that ALL the verses in Psalm 119 are about God's Word, whether written or directly inspired.  That Psalm presents many synonyms for His Word. Commandments are the Word in that Psalm.  Statutes are the Word.  Etc.

I thought I spotted one or two verses that lacked this many years ago, but that is too dim a memory to lean on.

Sad. Your definition of love is some regurgitated wierwille stuff...a man who knew so much about love he was a serial adulterer, sexual predator and his wife is quoted as saying at his graveside that "he was a mean man". Your just repeating what youve heard with little depth there mike. Sad really.

29 minutes ago, Rocky said:

And as per usual, he had a lame rationalization for it. 

Oh yeah...and he reminded us that hes a grease spot superstar with so many followers to respond to ....

8 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Which he went and actually did. 

Mike....did you? 

36 minutes ago, Mike said:

There are so many comments directed at me that there is no way to respond to them all.

Just sounds .... welll....narcissistic....

31 minutes ago, Charity said:

And yes Rocky, I know Mike won't read my post  - but I enjoyed writing it.  

Way to go, now hes gonna read it to say I told ya so....jk mike....

Just now, Mike said:

It is finished for me.

If anyone wants to make further fools of themselves entertaining the idea of bible-idolatry, have at it.

Of course it is...you were asked relevant questions that you couldn't answer, so you became critical and now your shutting down. I've dealt with the same issues and it's from cult related damage....you should look into it.

Just now, Mike said:

No. I am just happy that THIS sub-topic is finished.

Not finished, it's just that your the only one painting 

10 minutes ago, Mike said:

Thank you sir.
It is pretty obvious, isn't it.

I mean, they all painted themselves into a corner on this one.

 

Gloating in an assumed victory? Your true colors are showing. Nobody's even painting.

5 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Looks to me like lashing out in frustration.

Yeah, makes sense...good catch.

1 minute ago, Rocky said:

Do you really expect Mike to be able to cogently answer your question? Even if he tried, how would/could Mike credibly do so?

Expect? No, my expectations are pretty low. Whenever anyone asks mike a question that doesn't fit his narrative he ignores it...so...I expect more of the same really...but hey...he has a chance to at least...

3 minutes ago, Mike said:

When Jesus cited the greatest commandment, he was quoting from a most pivotal and important scripture for his audience.

Deut 6:1-12
¹These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess, ² so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.

³ Hear, Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised you.

⁴ Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

⁵ Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

⁶ These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.

⁷ Impress them on your children.

Talk about them when you sit at home

and when you walk along the road,

when you lie down and when you get up.

⁸ Tie them as symbols on your hands

and bind them on your foreheads.

⁹ Write them on the doorframes of your houses

and on your gates.

¹⁰ When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, ¹¹ houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, ¹² be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

*/*/*/*

Paraphrasing:  You love God by loving His words and saturating your life with them.

And a little followup for us Christians with:

1 John 5:1-3
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. ² This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. ³ In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome...

 

Just admit you don't have very much experience loving people and for you its all an intellectual pursuit where you pontificate this or that....all you doing is quoting scripture with little depth and scope behind the quotes...Its to be expected becacuse that was wierwille as well and you idolize him. Your arguments are not convincing at all and trying to take everything back to the Bible isn't working out to well for you. The Bible is a collection of books. Those books within the Bible's covers may or may not be scripture. You think God made Bibles? Its a sleight of hand to control who reads what...while the KJV Bible is fine and I use it daily it's not the end all be all. Not all scripture is within it's covers. More exhaustive canons contain books that are not scripture but are within the same binding.....dont you see? God is no bound within the pages of a Bible because its a man made construct and God is not limited in any fashion, though you frequently try and limitl the unlimited God.

7 minutes ago, Charity said:

“We cultivate love when we allow our most vulnerable and powerful selves to be deeply seen and known and when we honor the spiritual connection that grows from that offering with trust, respect, kindness and affection.  Love is not something we give or get, it’s something that we nurture and grow.  It’s a connection that only can be cultivated when it exists within each one of them.  We can only love others as much as we live ourselves. 

Shame, blame, disrespect, betrayal and the withholding of affection damage the roots from which love grows.  Love can only survive its injuries if they’re acknowledged, healed and rare.” 

Interesting really. I feel she offers a bit of wisdom here because love is cultivated. And I don't think it's necessarily a stand alone emotion, I mean which of them are? So would it be correct to say that love is cultivated and grows in a trusting environment with proper boundaries, where encouraging words are spoken and not ridicule? I mention ridicule because I grew up with a lot of ridicule even though it was disguised as humor. So trust, kindness, respect, acceftion...perhaps all of them come to play in cultivating love....just thinking on my keyboard here....havent thought about these things in some time now...

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Of course. It would be exactly his style. He said a lot of things people didn't understand. The Gospels show and tell how the people, even his own disciples, didn't understand him.

And Jesus did that on purpose....so is he unloving?...Mike...?