OldSkool

2 hours ago, Charity said:

“We cultivate love when we allow our most vulnerable and powerful selves to be deeply seen and known and when we honor the spiritual connection that grows from that offering with trust, respect, kindness and affection.  Love is not something we give or get, it’s something that we nurture and grow.  It’s a connection that only can be cultivated when it exists within each one of them.  We can only love others as much as we live ourselves. 

 

Great post and thanks! I disagree with her findings because I feel love is something we are given. We are given the ability to express human love by God and we the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the spirit he has given us..moving onwards here...

5 minutes ago, Charity said:

However, I believe one has to take into account what we grew up learning about love and has since become "hardwired" in our brains like a default setting.  If a child grows up believing love cannot be trusted, that they're unlovable or not worthy of love, that loving someone means neglecting their own needs or that love means sex, these negative beliefs are not easy to change as an adult.  What are the chances then that they might affect how I act towards my children, spouse, etc.  On this forum, I've heard how time spent in twi changed healthy beliefs about loving yourself and others into self-hatred or a distrust of love.  We learned that even the love of God was conditional and became hard-hearted towards certain others.  

This paragraph is thought provoking for me. You know a lot of the issues Im dealing with as far as PTSD or even CPTSD in my case and a lot of this makes sense to me. So much of our disposition has been influenced by our verious environments through different seasons of life. Ive had to learn so many things because of my extremely dysfunctional upbringing. Ive had to learn how to love and how to trust and it's in the context of setting boundaries to help navigate relationships. But I feel for most people love is learned by example and taught primarily in the home. but love is something we are given...the question is do we know what to do with love and are we capable of expressing love once we experience it. 

58 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm dying to give the answer, but I should wait for Rocky and Oldskool to have a chance at it.

Dont wait on me, Im not really participating in this conversation because I have addressed you several times with points of consideration that youve ignored....talking with you in this context is like clapping with one hand...its all about you and Im not into feeding narcissisism. Most everyone of your posts are condescending and your choice of words indicate a disdain for people here that you have a prejudice against folks here because we reject your false prophet. So, again, don't wait on me....carry on sir.! Peace.

3 hours ago, Mike said:

The bottom line of love for a human means to love their words and ultimately their will. 

So in order to love somebody with agape love that is hungry, physically starving to death then to love them I should do their will...I mean God forbid if their will is to rob a bank so they don't starve...IGod forbid I would love them by giving them food and shelter or a job or whatever would actually help them and demonstrate God's agape love which is expressed as giving...so do I love peoples will and words when those will and words are sinful and contrary to God's will?

1 hour ago, Mike said:

How do you really love someone deeply?
What is most important thing about someone you love?

Their words; their will.

You are asking questions and then providing answers that dont fit for me. You really love someone deeply by giving and sharing one's life with them. By providing what they need and accepting what they provide in return. Youve accepted good words and fair speeches as gospel so you cannot see beyond those words.

The most important thing about someone I love? Well that depends on the person/entity, the scenario, and the nature of the relationship. The thing I love most about God is expressed in John 3:16. That God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten son. So the thing I love about God the most is that he gave of himself and that Jesus Christ was the perfect passover for the sins of man. Jesus Christ is not the Bible. The Bible is not Jesus Christ...the Bible can never take the place of Jesus Christ. Thats my final answers before you come in telling me my answers are wrond.

https://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/canonical/books.html

1 hour ago, waysider said:

"The Bible is the revealed word of God.">>>> "It's The Word, The Word and nothing but the Word."

I mean, it's not hard to do the math.

 

David said "thou has magnified thy Word above all thy name."   

1.) It was David, not God, who made the declaration.

2.) There was no "Bible" when he said it.

 

55 minutes ago, waysider said:

The Way promulgated doctrinal beliefs that lead us to have an inordinate reverence for the book, itself. Or, in some cases, a reverence of the collaterals, as well.

I agree. The concept that we have a Bible and that Bible contains all the holy books we ever need is blatant error. There are various and sundry canons all over the earth. There are books that have been excluded from the Biblical canon we use in America that are scripture. 1 Enoch, Jubilees, and Jasher come to mind immediately but there are others as well. So to say that our western Canon is the absolute Word of God is absolute error. I left a link for those who would like to read more on the Ethiopic Canon and Im leaving a list of books in their Bible...

https://www.euclid.int/papers/Anke Wanger - Canon in the EOTC.pdf

Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
Joshua
Judges
Ruth
I Samuel
II Samuel
I Kings
II Kings
I Chronicles
II Chronicles (incl. the Prayer of Manasseh)
Jubilees
Enoch
I Ezra[4]
II Ezra[4]
Ezra Sutuel[4]
Tobit
Judith
Esther
I Meqabyan
II Meqabyan
III Meqabyan (Similarly named, but not the same as the four Greek Books of the Maccabees. )
Job
Psalms
Messalë (Proverbs ch 1–24)
Tägsas (“Reproof”; Proverbs ch 25–31)
Wisdom of Solomon
Ecclesiastes
Song of Songs
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Lamentations 
Letter of Jeremiah
Baruch 
4 Baruch
Ezekiel
Daniel
Hosea
Amos
Micah
Joel
Obadiah
Jonah
Nahum (or Nahium)
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi
Sirach
Josippon

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Acts
Romans
I Corinthians
II Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
I Thessalonians
II Thessalonians
I Timothy
II Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Hebrews
I Peter
II Peter
I John
II John
III John
James
Jude
Revelation
Sinodos
Ser`atä Seyon (30 canons)
Te’ezaz (71 canons)
Gessew (56 canons)
Abtelis (81 canons)
I-II Covenant
Ethiopic Clement[5]
Ethiopic Didascalia[5]

17 hours ago, Rocky said:

My view is Mike is completely free to have been a seeker who just decided. However, that's not what Mike's role as an activist for promoting all things Wierwille, PFLAP, and the associated written collateral materials... ARGUING (incredibly poorly) for that position.

Last night, I tried to pin him down and get him to justify his position. He replied with what I read as extreme frustration, expressed with emotionally immature and accusatory language. I realized at that time the only way for me to reasonably respond to him when he does that is with compassion.

I maintain that his advocacy for all things twi is worthy of reasonable and aggressive pushback. When he seems to go off the rails, that signals to me he needs to be responded to with compassion.

Awesome perspective, thank you Sir!

1 hour ago, Mike said:

God is all those things, but they are invisible to the senses.
God puts His heart into print for those stuck in the senses realm.

...which is all of us.

Didn't know I couldn't see light or feel love...

4 hours ago, Mike said:

God's Word is as much God as God is God.

I thought God is love, spirit and light so now hes print on a page? Not! 

1 minute ago, waysider said:

Did he, though? Much of what he expounded had been passed down through oral tradition. 

Careful, your contradicting wierwille the great with actual, verfiable history...so wierwille mustve been right..

1 hour ago, Mike said:

I tried reading my first Bible in 1970 but got nowhere.

That in itself is questionable because it's written in plain English

1 hour ago, Mike said:

 

Thanks for the tip,
but I'm already hip
to it .

I tried reading my first Bible in 1970 but got nowhere.
A year later my first Bible understanding of any sort happened in my first twig fellowship.

The collaterals inspired me to read my Bible,
AND showed me lots of tips on HOW.

They also showed me WHERE to read in my Bible.

Because I had heard "Jesus Part One - His Earthly Ministry" all my life in the RC church, teachings like "Jesus Part Two - His Heavenly Ministry" were very valuable tips I got from the collaterals. 

I had never heard most of the accounts in Acts, and the Part Two Jesus shows up three times there. 

I had never heard anything of the Epistles except mere CLIPPINGS that would be read in church with no context or teaching provided.

 

I received deliverance of all things Wierwille...your letting a false prophet define scripture for you.

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

Bad guess.

God's Word is as much God as God is God.

Where are you going to find God's written Word, outside the collaterals, where if is understandable?

Jesus lined himself up with the written Word, and that was not idolatry.

Try reading a Bible

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

My link, I thought, was to a clip of a guy in France break dancing. It apparently is not.

54 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

I thought we were moving on with more proofs of a declining civilization by evidence of a declining earth!

 

Still wanna see that French breakdancer, though.

My apologies, I thought we had veered off into the twilight zone...which isnt to be unexpected....

Its summer.

9 hours ago, Mike said:

Sounds to me the imagery spoiled the music for you.

Yes, art is emotion, and the music ALONE gave me great emotions. I have a few songs in my playlist for car trips.

I think its just that music and musical tastes are very subjective. Your not wrong for enjoying the music and production for AOS, nothing wrong with that. It's just that if you look at it objectively and compare art to art AOS is pretty lacking in many areas. But again, you like it so enjoy! Nobody can say thats not right or even wrong for you really. Personally, I have some very off beat musical tastes that are all over the road from genre to genre that most people would not enjoy. But thats me and this is Mike. So peace!

26 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

will just have to sit there like a duck, undefined.

3 hours ago, chockfull said:

Here you go Mikey!  Whenever you have free time to watch as well as listen.

Get rocked by the Way Orchestra.  

You can’t stop the lo shontas even if u wanted to.  

 

Good gosh this crap is corny on an entire nother level...greasy grief...think if I was washing windows to it on a high rise I'd probably take the express route down... 

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

That's fine, too. I like to look at several versions, including the Geneva. (I haven't checked out the Matthews Bible, yet.) I'm not tied to any version. I find it all very interesting, but I'm not dogmatic about any of it, as you know.

The older English versions require additional tools like the OED, if one is to understand that older English. It is helpful to understand what words meant to those living 400 years ago. The English language has changed. This is my only point.

The Greek stays the same (99% of the time), but study in 1583 carries a different meaning than it does in 2023. Going back to the Greek is important, too. Obviously? I wish I was proficient in Greek.

Ive learned to become the same way over the years. Its interesting that when you look into things a bit closer regarding VPW his entire premise was complete BS. That scripture was in some sort of unintelligible mess and he needed to straighten it out...talk about hyper-arrogance. Basically, the translators were scholars and not fake scholars like VPW. That doesnt make the translators or the translations or versions perfect but God needed no help from VPW,

The Matthews Bible is the Tyndale Bible with the Old Testament completed by one of Tyndale's understudies after Tyndale was martyred, using Tyndale's notes and also the books that Tyndale had translated at the time of his death. I value it more than the AV1611 which has it's own cultic following that I am careful to avoid like the plague...yes there really is a AV1611 only movement out there and...ya... 

46 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

(I love reading the KJV. It’s beautiful. However, I prefer a modern, literal version like the NASB for understanding, study.)

I go the opposite route since many modern translations have some pretty heavy error, deletions, word changes, etc...I use the older versions...a good case in point is to look at 2 Thess 2:3 in the Geneva Bible and Matthews Bible because they both translate falling away as a departing first, which is a game changer.

https://textusreceptusbibles.com/Parallel/53002001/KJV1611/GNV/MAT

2 hours ago, Mike said:

In this old mode of investigating free will

Well consider me old fashioned cause I have no desire to engage in centuries old exercise in mental masturbation when the answer is plain and simple but ignored.

48 minutes ago, Mike said:

Neither you nor the OED can forbid anyone from re-defining a word for use in a small group.   Trying to forbid me or VPW in this reveals your weak and defective understanding of the whole ball game.

No there is nothing to stop you except scripture absolutely forbids this sort of thing. But what do you and VPW care about that?

No concern...entire Bibles have been rewritten, but I hope you are prepared to take your place amongst those who are God's enemies. You have chosen your company.

1 minute ago, So_crates said:

Most of what Saint Vic wanted to say lead to control

Yessir.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

I respect what you feel and write here on decisions.   This kind of talking about free will and decisions has gone on for over 20 centuries. 

In this old mode of investigating free will we have at our disposal our own feelings, observations of others behavior, hearing words of them describing their decisions.   They we weave a narrative that seems to make sense to ourselves, and hopefully to others also.

So the free will debate has proceeded this way (philosophically) for a long time, and it started thousands of years before the scientific method was perfected, which was only about 400 years ago.

The philosophical debate over free will has never been resolved; it rages forever, and never matured or progressed to the level of practical applications.

For 300 years science was not developed enough to deal with the complex issue of free will.  Now it is beginning to deal with it.

In this scientific approach, decisions are made SOLELY on the basis of preparation.   When a person is facing a decision they have no choise, and are forced into the decision by whatever synapse set they walked into the decision with.

An analogy of this would be an professional actor who is scheduled to perform in a practice run of the play WITH NO REHEARSALS.

When the curtain goes up, whatever lines he has well memorized beforehand are likely to be delivered well.  The actor has prepared his synapse set to do this.  He mas made these lines a HABIT.  He can almost relax and perform them, as this habit is a synapse set that FORCES him to perform well.

But suppose his script had a missing page!  

When that part in play comes up, his synapse set is unprepared, and the actor is FORCED by ignorance to flub those lines on the missing page.
 

 

 

Well, you realize this is like investigating if oxygen is to be breathed or not...

1 hour ago, Mike said:

There is no way the Bible could be untangled by ORDINARY sense knowledge research.  God had to step in to give enough revelation to get the ball rolling on such a massive untangling project.

There is nothing to untangle. Just open it and read it. The Bible is pretty straightforward...the so called research was necessary for the Bible to say what victor paul wierwille wanted it to say thus his phony research.

2 hours ago, penworks said:

Along these lines, I think of the philosopher Hereclitus saying the only thing for certain is change. Something like that.

Speaking of change ... here's a little peek into Way archives: 25th Way Anniversary brochure. Notice the PFAL "endorsement" quotes, especially one by W*alter C*ummins.

 

1443088419_25thannivTWI.pdf 3.8 MB · 5 downloads

Thanks for posting that brochure....boy what a shameless fluff piece pushing PFLAPPY...Walter's comment is so very revealing and I think we see from the beginning that VPW was busy setting himself up as some great one...sad.