Raf

By the way, I never said anything about thinking this up hours ahead of time, or even minutes. It IS possible to make things up on the spot without rehearsing it. Most casual conversation works that way, but we'd be hard pressed to say most casual conversation is therefore divinely inspired.

He tells me to prove it, then gives me the ammo I need to prove it. First, let's clarify our terms: when I say "make it up on the spot," that is a DENIAL of any spiritual influence. Please do not now take that expression and turn it into an explanation for how the manifestation works, because it confuses the whole issue. "God inspires the message" and "I made it up on the spot" are two diametrically opposed propositions. What you have done is defined the former in such a way as to make it indistinguishable from the latter (which, I believe, proves my point, whether you see it that way or not). Further, in acknowledging that someone making it up on the spot (my definition) could have the desired effect of exhorting and comforting the audience, you have effectively refuted the experience of exhortation and comfort as proof that what you heard was a divinely inspired message (as opposed to the speaker "lucking out"). In other words, just because you heard what you needed to hear, that does not prove that what you heard was not "made up on the spot" (my definition) by the speaker. In fact, I contend that it is EASY to make up a message that exhorts and comforts the listeners in the room for the simple reason that the listeners in the room are primed for it. They WANT to hear something that exhorts and comforts them, so the platitudes we regurgitated on a regular basis were BOUND to have the desired effect because that is what we wanted to SAY and that is what we were hungry to HEAR. You know what we never heard? Lotto numbers. The location of a lost set of keys. Hell, tomorrow's weather. We never heard ANYTHING that could not be summed up in a Roma Downey speech at the end of a Touched by an Angel episode. In any event, I'm not asking you to prove that your experience is really divinely inspired. [in my opinion, you are kidding yourself and are perfectly free to continue doing so]. What I AM saying is that for those of you who are tired of lying about this for so many years and are afraid to admit it, it's OK to come out. No one's going to be mad. It's really quite liberating. One more thing: I keep using the words lying, lies and liars. I apologize for that, because it implies dishonesty and I don't think very many people are being dishonest about this. Rather, I think you lied to yourselves, internalized that lie to the extent that you really believe it AND have invested a great deal of your faith in its veracity, and now can hardly imagine renouncing that lie because doing so calls into question your very relationship with God. I get it. It took me years to finally admit this, for that very reason. So again I say to you, come clean. Remember, God already knows all this stuff, doesn't He? He knows your heart. He knows what you did and why. So you're not kidding Him. And if your relationship with God IS dependent on you keeping up this lie... how much of a relationship is that, really? Of course, my message there is addressed only to those who lied about it. Those who told the truth should continue to do so.

Have Archie and Edith adopt Steve Urkel or Alex P. Keaton, for example. If I am not mistaken, your B/A is All in the Family, with Family being the name of the second show. Did it have a longer title I'm not aware of?

I was going to suggest that both titles should contain more than 1 word.

Communal self deception. I TELL you I lied, and you're so invested in the lie that you demand proof. Holy... As for proving that others are lying, I think johniam's demand for proof is bass-ackward. You claim to have the ability to, on the spot, bring forth a message from the Almighty Creator of the Universe, and the burden is on ME to prove YOU'RE lying? Please.

Your turn!

I'll try another one: Sabrina in right, Jill in center, Kelly in left. Welcome to California. Play Ball!

No need for "Rises," although it would work if I had said "After a family moves into an old house, their little girl becomes tormented by visions of Batman coming up from the basement." In the interest of moving this along, I'll reveal it: Don't Be Afraid of the Dark Knight

Remarkable. Irrelevant, but quite remarkable.

As the first recipient of my lie, you deserve a direct apology from me. I just wanted to fit in, man. I REALLY wanted to fit in.

In case I wasn't clear on the rules, it can be two movies, two tv shows, or one of each. Doesn't matter. In this case, it's two theatrical movies. TV movies are fine, so long as they are really, really well known. You must use the full titles, not cutting into the middle (definite articles excepted).

I need something of that lady in the middle, but it ain't her name.

Here's a new game based on the Wheel of Fortune category. For those who don't know, "Before and After" in Wheel of Fortune is when two terms or expressions are united by a word at the end of one phrase and at the beginning of the second. For example: "God Bless You Dirty Rat" is a before & After tying "God Bless You" and "You Dirty Rat." I thought it might be fun to do the same thing with movie titles. So here's the gimmick: I describe the movie (mixing up the plots of the two movies and TV shows), and you figure out the before & after. Rather than give an example, I'll just start it off and you'll hopefully see what I mean. Ready? After a family moves into an old house, their little girl becomes tormented by visions of Batman in the basement.

I am going to change "reinforced self-deception" to "communal self-deception," as I think the term better conveys the point I'm trying to articulate. I appreciate what's being said here, and I can't force anyone to join me. But there are those, I am CERTAIN, who were like me for years who were afraid to admit it, because doing so calls too much into question. To those, I say stand up and tell the truth. God can handle it. He already knows, doesn't He? So just who is it you've been kidding? A lie cannot glorify God.

If I were to write a paper on reinforced self deception, I would devote chapters to johniam's post. I am encouraging people to search their hearts and admit something that is extraordinarily difficult to admit. I convinced myself I was manifesting the power of the Almighty. But does He really need me to lie for Him? I think not.

Yes! "That 70's Show" debuted in the 1990s and captured 1970s nostalgia.

You are a TOY!!!

Thanks, Steve. We are respectfully at irreconcilable positions here. I don't think I've been hasty in the extrapolation at all. I can't force anyone to agree with me, but I can invite people to confess and free themselves from years and maybe even decades of reinforced b.s. It's okay to come out, as it were. It must have been something: what was it? I reject the premise. It most certainly "must" not have been anything. It was as easy to fake it during the Great Awakening as it was at the end of every session 12.

I love that American Idol clip! "I spoke in tongues before TWI" = "I made up my own language when I was in 6th grade!" I made up a language as a child too. Just babbled. I did it in front of my classmates. I insisted it was the language of the Krah-zee people of old. (Say it out loud a few times). When I spoke in tongues, it was THE SAME THING. I didn't speak in tongues as a child. I faked it as an adult. It's embarrassing. But not anymore. I refuse to continue perpetuating the lie that, in my opinion, bound us all not with love, not with the spirit, but with the reinforced self-deception that led us to think we had "PROOF!" at last! I refuse to lie any more about this.

"If it's not tongues, WTF is it?" Babbling. Ever wonder why we all sounded like Wierwille at first? Because that's what we thought it was supposed to sound like. As we realized the silliness of everyone speaking in the same unknown language, we varied our pitch (WE varied our pitch). Remember the excellor sessions when we were taught to sound from different letters of the alphabet to develop more fluency? WHERE TF is that in the Bible? INVENTED. Every syllable was your own. YOU moved your lips, your tongue, your throat... "as the spirit gave utterance" felt no different from "make that s--- up as you go along," so when you made it up as you went along, the "good" Doctor had to tell you "no, you're not faking it, that's right, you're doing it now, don't let the devil talk you out of it..." God had nothing to do with it. It was sophisticated babbling that never, ever corresponded to the tongues of men or angels. Tongues of angels? TONGUES OF ANGELS? Just think about that one for a while. How many languages do they speak up there? Tongues of angels. Please. WTF is it? It's you. Only recently have I found the personal courage and integrity to admit this to myself. I invite all to do the same.

Spaceballs: The Movie

I tried to cover as many bases as I could with the poll options. Looks like I missed one.

I don't believe anyone intended to fake it. But funny how the interpretation changes when the doctrine about interpretation changes. Simplest explanation: it's extemporaneous expression, not divine inspiration. First thing I had to do was admit I lied to myself, for years. If you don't know whether you faked it, congratulations! You did! Of course, Wierwille tried to tell us right there in PFAL that the devil will try to get you to think you're just faking it, so you just ignore him and belieeeeve. (psst. Wierwille lied. Your heart and integrity were trying to tell you that you were faking it. Wierwille got us to ignore that, and when we did, we sold him a little piece of our soul).

I lied about it all. I admit it. I have never spoken in a language unknown to me. The "interpretations" that came from me were made up on the spot. The "words of prophecy" that came from me were, likewise, fabricated extemporaneously. It was all a lie. Interesting point: In CES (I refuse to dignify their later irrelevant metamorpheses), they taught that an interpretation should take the form of prayer and praise, not exhortation and comfort, and voila! Just like that, their interpretations changed to conform to their new doctrine. What this tells me? I'm not the only one who made it up, who lied to gain the favor of the group. I can't be the only one. I believe that TWI encouraged this lie (and continues to do so to this day). A supernatural experience is posited to you, you lie to feign participation in that experience, and you gain acceptance. What united us was NOT the supernatural experience, but the participation in the lie. I call it reinforced-self-deception. And I renounce it. Does anyone else?

Wierwille's calculation was an out of control fantasy ascribing astrological meaning to verses in Revelation that have nothing to do with the Zodiac. That he was not the first to make that calculation does not absolve him of the blame he holds for perpetuating it. With respect to those who worked with sincere hearts on JCOPS, a vile man once said sincerity is no guarantee for truth. When you start with ridiculous assumptions ("Revelation is giving us the clues we need to calculate Jesus' birthday..." WTF?) you end up with ridiculous results.