dabobbada

Shaz and Ex,

I was saying pretty much what you are. Different things taught at different levels within the structure.

In the early days, to the outer circle, the husband was to love the wife as his queen and as the Proverbs 31 woman she could be. Had it been the absolute lord of the house it became later, Iwould not have spent all those years there.

Maybe I was lucky to kive in good areas with good leaders, but I did not see much of men oppressing women until the '90s.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

quote:

---

Originally posted by excathedra:

thanks my3cents !!!!!

hey was don wierwille ordained ? i forget

yeah i kinda wondered about some of those department heads at headquarters.

thanks for the info.

i was actually talking about you with a fellow poster a little while ago in relation to this thread. were your ears burning ???

?

---

I can't recall Don W being ordained by TWI or not. I do remember at a rock in the mid eighties, say '84 to '89, Don got up and in a sense was validating himself as a trustee.

He said he was with VP once when he was about 10 years old. VP was visiting one of those men who had inspired him in his early years. (Rufus Mosley, Starr Daily, B.G.Leonard, etc., I don't recall.) This person felt inspired to minister to Don and then ordained him into the Christian ministry at that time according to Don's story.

I believe it is probably true, I've heard of things like that before. Interestingly, VP always wanted Don to join him in TWI but Don resisted and remained a school principal until VP offered him the Emporia Campus.

I think that was a huge mistake for Don.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

quote:

---

Originally posted by excathedra:

I was a TWI wife. and really, abi, i never had a control issue with my then husband. and i don't remember anyone pressuring him along those lines.

i just might have been in a different time than you or place

?

---

Ex,

As I recall, you left early on, mid or late '70s. Though TWI taught the husband as head, he was also to love his wife as Christ did the church. It was a mellower time with a lot more love in the ministry. As time went on, we got caught up in the works of the ministry and the love receded.

This led eventually to the legalism and micro-managed absolute control of everthing in the '90s which were The Loy'd Craig's ultimate Nirvana. The first focus of any such total dictatorship is always the family.

More generally, in any group of 100 marriages, you will have many types of male to female interactions. Men will vary from dictators to wife beaters, and leaders to co-workers, submitters. and wussies. Culture, including religion have tremendous infuences on how these interrelationships work.

TWI taught the outer masses one thing, the corps another, and the initiated ones a third. And that changed and became harder of heart as time progressed. It ended in HitLoy's Glorious Micro-managed Third Reich.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Sorry oldies, I don't know where it is at. I beleive it was at the old Greasespot and I don't think it exists anymore.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

oldiesman,

You know that we communicated for a time and I am your friend and that I know where you are coming from in relationship to TWI. You are right pertaining to the women who voluntarily engaged in sexual acvtivity and abortion. There were plenty who wished to sleep with a MOG, and there were plenty who had an abortion so it wouldn't interfere with doing 'the word.' There were also plenty who got abortions because they didn't feel they were ready to deal with parenting at the time too.

I have the privilege of having been with WayDale early on and both GSC's since then plus a few other sites. I've read a multitude of abuse stories by as many women over these near five years. At first, I blew them off as disgruntled folks seeking revenge. I also considered them responsible and accountable for their own actions too.

But when you read hundreds of stories by different women and they are all basically the same three or four stories, then you've got to know they all can't be lying. I felt sick enough to throw up when I realized several of them were women I knew. When it is an anonymus person, it is easy to dismiss it as BS. However, when it is someone you know and you know what kind of person they are and their character, it takes on a whole new meaning.

It is difficult for any abused woman to tell her story here. She is exposing things deep and horrible from the most painful and private parts of her soul. When she does this she is forced in a way to relive the degradation all over again. And worst of all, once she has put it up on the net, she knows there are those who will rip her to shreads saying she is a liar or that it was her own fault. It is like being raped all over again. That is why many don't post the details or won't post at all. I figure for everyone who has said their stories, there are 15 or 30 who can't or won't put themselves thru all the virtual stonings they always seem to get.

You knew Valerie, have you read her full story? (I think it was on GSC 1) Where she talks about who she was, where she came from, then tells of her corps years and details what VP did to her. Or her "pressured" marriage to a total wife abusing jerk. Or how he messed with her head so much she went out and did a number of unseemly things for a while. Fortunately, she got her head together and staightened herself out. That in itself is an incredible story. I wish she would put it in the MY Story forum, but that is a personal decision only she can make.

Oldiesman, I know you and some family have had nothing but good associations with several of the highest ups in TWI, so also did many of us. So also did many including LindaZ and several others who were on staff for years at HQ. However I have seen from the postings where folks spoke of the inner circle of spiritually manure ....er, spiritually mature that TWI was really The Waybylon Mystery Religion for our day and time.

Remember the Babylon book? It showed how they made an outward show of religion to pacify the masses and then had the secret mystery religion of licentiousness for the initiated enlightened ones. It seems VP plagarized that one to. Now mind you, I do believe VP was a true believer.

The thing was, if VP truly believed you could stretch grace and forgiveness so far that it was ok to have sex with anyone, why didn't he preach it to the masses. That would have been intellectually honest anyway. But he knew most people wouldn't buy it and would walk away if they heard it. So to keep them near for his purposes, he taught a more standard form of Bible to the spiritually immature and the deep things of the "great freedom we have in Christ" to those he chose worthy to be the initiated ones of the inner circle.

It is not only intellectually dishonest but there is plenty of evidence to show that he had the predatory instincts down on how to choose many of his victims from those who already had problems in that area. Sadly, predators and molelesters are good at portraying themselves as good and upstanding citizens while doing evil things.

As I have said, VP was a true believer. He beleived what he taught to the masses, and he believed even more what he taught to the spiritually manure inner circle. If that had contradictions between the mature and the immature, then that was what was necessary to keep the immature close in enough until they too might believe big enough to join the initiated ones.

oldiesman,

I am going to tell you a story I've never told anyone, but I know it will affect you. I am not doing this to hurt you but I hope it will help you see more broadly. Again, I am sorry if this hurts you.

It was told me by a long time friend, who had also been a roommate of mine. Very dear and close, if anyone knew his heart, it was me. about 1990 or so, we were talking about the events of the last few years in the ministry. We had several such conversations over several visits including more after this incident. I was trying to make sense of the fog years and he had come right out of corps to work at HQ for those several years.

We talked of a number of things and I'd asked about the rumors of adultry at HQ. He reply there had been some going on and at fairly high levels. I guess someone pushed an effort to clear the air, the guilty parties were supposed to confess their sins to theis spouses. I asked if he knew some names here and he said he didn't because it was supposed to remain private. however he was standing with Wanda Weirwille one night when Don came up with one of the OFC secretaries and admited to Wanda that the secretary had been his mistress of several years.

I was in shock and made him repeat the story and swear to it's truthfulness which he did. I mulled it over several years and didn't know what to make of it until WayDale and GSC. My friend had nothing to gain and could have lost a lot by telling me that story. I believe him about it.

The Way was a beautiful apple with a rotten core. I beleive Don was a good man who fell into his dad's way of thinking as was corrupted into the rotten things at the center. I do not know what route VP took to get to where he did. I can guess it went like so many others did as such is a common curse to humanity.

My guess is VP started out with good intentions to love and serve God. Somewhere at some point one of two things happened. Either he got off on a tangent about grace and forgiveness, or he got caught up in an affair with some woman. If you carry grace and forgiveness too far, you can excuse any evil work. If you get into an affair and like it too much, you will start to find excuses why it wasn't so bad. then you find the bible verses that make it downright forgivable, then absolutely walking in the freedom of Christ, by golly.

Onetime, about the late winter of '73 I think, I was at HQ, about 6 rows back as was my wont, and VP was teaching about how we weren't under the law, but grace. In the middle, he went into one of his sidestory tangents, as he was wont to do. He had been talking about how the Israelites were under the law. then he said how the patriachs were under no law but their own personal ones.

He laid out an example of how in the time before the law, if a man wanted to sleep with all the women in the village, it was ok, there being no law, thus no sin. He then said in a joking way that the husbands of those women just might not be real pleased about it. It would be a sin to them, but it wouldn't be a sin for that man.

It was a good example of sin counciousness and freedom from the same. Little did I realize then how closely that described him and the way he operated. interestingly those words also judge him and find him guilty. Though VP claimed he didn't consider it a sin, he caused many to live in the guilt and degradation of sin conciousness. He knew from Romans you are not to cause others to sin, but did it anyway.

And he taught others in the inner circle to do the same.

Sorry oldies, but it is the truth.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Andrea,

That was both very Godly and very funny.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

oldiesman... :D--> :D--> :D-->

Yeah, now I know who you are, good to see you again. :)--> :)--> I loved Meg's Manta, that was a nice little car. It was a bummer to see it all torn up afterward and it was God's intervention somehow that kept you not only alive, but basically unhurt.

Good ol' Blue, the rusty '63 Ford. Everyone thought it would be the first onr to expire on the WOW field. It was the last one to have any problems, and once Roger got his car going again, it seems we loaned ol' Blue out to several families in need at times.

It was an honor to have saved yerazs.

(Do you remember the red white and blue steering wheel? :D--> )

(How about the gas tank heldon by a tow chain? :D--> :D-->

Talk about an ultimate wowmobile!? )

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

oldiesman,

The pictures I was refering to are the ones she posted in the Every Picture Tells a Story forum.

Were you an Amarillo '74 WOW?

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Valerie,

You may not remember me, but we were on the wow field together in Amarillo. I am Bob Hansen and I was in the Ephesians twig with Roger Stark and Jo Ann Clark.

I didn't get to know you very well because the oberfuhrer Barb Grey chose me to be her personal enemy, so it wasn't a good idea to go to her place. I read where you said how poorly she treated and used you too. It didn't really surprise me.

I always remembered you as the wholesome clean-cut all american middle class girl. What VP did to you, what the corps, and your corps husband did to you made my blood boil. The crap you went thru saddened me immensely. Your testemonies were what absolutely locked out any last vestiges of doubts about VP and the perversities in TWI.

I was impressed with your accounting of your military service. You go girl. I am glad you have found a good life and husband and that it is well with you.

Thanks for the pictures of the wow year. It was good to see bob Wyda and Phil and the others. That was quite a wierd year but God made it a good one in spite of Barbera Greystapo.

May God's peace be upon you all your days.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Now herb,

You aught to know it isn't that hard, just take a shovel and break up about two square feet of earth. Then use a hoe to pound it into smaller pieces. Then take shovel to the center of the plot, shove it in all the way to the top of the blade and push it to the side so you have a little crack in the soil.

Then pour a handful of fertilizer in there and close it back up again. Then flip the shovel handle and poke a 6 inch hole 2 inches from the fertilized spot and insert a weiner. (Oscar Mayer works best here) Gently cover the dog with dirt and water about a Del Monte spinach cans worth.

It takes about 75 days to the harvest and will continue until the first frost.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Lightside,

About three years back, I was talking to a woman who had been at HQ in the late 80's thru the 90's. We were discussing TWI and got to talking about the times of VP's final days. She mentioned she had befriended a lady who was a cousin of the Wierwille family, who it happens was the last person to see VP alive.

During this visit, VP expressed his concern or frustration that he just couldn't figure out what sin he had done in his life that allowed a cancer spirit in to do this to him.

I have said before that VP was a true believer in his doctrine. I am talking about how he carried the blood of Jesus and grace so far that if you did not consider sex abuse a sin, it was not a sin. Even if it had to be hidden from those lesser believers who were not spiritually manure ..er,.. mature enough to believe that high.

On his deathbed, while searching for some sin he might have done that allowed devils in his life, he did not consider his sex perversions as a possible source.

It is amazing how he forgot all the verses about what a leader should be to qualify for his position. Or the ones which say shall we sin that grace may abound, God forbid. How about the ones that say that he who causes his brother to sin is worse than an infidel.

Remember all the times VP would exort with all the passion and frustration he could muster; "People, if you could only see the greatness of the freedom you have in Christ." with the implication of how it would so change your life.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

quote:

---

Originally posted by early2it:

Since we know LCM was a real butt head and VPW a sex pilgrim I wonder if he got aroused rubbing all that oil in LCM's scalp?

---

Oh My God, we forgot all about the oil; "Le Parfum du Skunque" that was rubbed into Kraigensteins head.

:D--> :D--> :D-->

Slightly more seriously, I've never seen any evidence of the passing of the skunk pelt to the new president. Giving the Presidency to RosyLie was not done publicly and no mention was made of any ceremonies bestowing any honors other than the presidency to her.

I remember a couple times, VP saying in his later years, if he had a chance to do it all over again, he'd give the presidency to someone else. Let them take care of the physical side so he could concentrate on the spiritual side of the ministry.

So if Rosy is the physical head but not the spiritual head, then who is?

Has anyone heard of the tranfer of the skunk pelt or an anointing in oil du skunque?

If not, then who is left?

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

If you are going to do it in Minnie-sootah, just remember to do it in Southern Minnie-sootah. This is after all, not a "DamnYankee" weenie roast.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Linda,

I kind of miss me too! :D-->

I still check in regularly, but health problems tend to rob me of the mental and physical energy necessary to post as I'd like.

I always love reading your posts, you are intelligent, balanced, thoughtful and caring. You help to keep the far left and the far right, the over the top, and slithering under the bottom types from falling off the four corners of the earth. :D-->

Keep up the good work!

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Amen to what Linda said. I went thru the same thought processes in the same way and came to the same conclusions in due time.

It takes a while to sort things out. And anyone who takes the words of a total stranger without consideration is likely to suffer many foolish things in this life. Give new folks time to sort things out.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

:D--> :D--> :D-->

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

A Vue of Saturn;

:D-->

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Last I heard was Brad and Chris moved to the Dayton area and bought a house. I don't know if they are still involved or not. I hope they are out.

I knew them before they got married, when he was the hottest person I'd ever seen on the bible.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Andy,

I went to your website, excellent work! Thanks for sharing that with us. Walking with a Bozo reminded me a little of the Rock of Ages. :D-->

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Wow, Andy,

I didn't know the seriousness of your medical problem. (You had mentioned it once.) I am very glad you are still with us. Thanks for your story. I hope you can enjoy many more years of animation plus everything else this good life has to offer.

Bob

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Hi Jackie,

Long time no see, Bob Hansen here. I recall seeing, (I think in one of the Way Mag threads a while back, 2 to 4 months ago) that Mark and Connie were still in okie land. It Seems to me someone else was co-coordinating it with them or something like that.

God I hate to think of their sweet souls being in lockstep with that evil waycorps mindset. Hopefully they are treating their people well.

As for me, I'm in Detroit these days and getting by. :D-->

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

quote:

---

Originally posted by laleo:

Oakspear,

Just my opinion, but I think the unnamed sister's power of attorney is irrelevant to J.P.'s complaints. The way I'm reading his letter is that it was written in anger and frustration for all the years he (and probably his siblings, too) "played by the rules" set by TWI, hoping that in return his mother would receive care and consideration from them. Instead, she got handed back to the family when she became an inconvenience.

---

laleo,

very insightful, I think you hit the nail on the head.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Doesn't Harvey realise that if this letter doesn't go well that he will be the official scapegoat?

He should remember how Howard Allen took the fall for the financial disaster that happened after Craiggers heavy revvie to go full time on all the corps.

Yep, his job is in jeapardy allright. I wouldn't be surprised if RosyLie didn't set it up so she had something to use against him when she's in the mood.

(Yes, I know it was a letter by commitee with 328 revisions. And that every word was scrutinsed and approved by RosyLie and a bank of lawyers. But... Harvey's name is on it.)

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Yeah Valerie,

They were in Texas somewhere in a position of leadership of coarse. They were to move from one house to another in their area, had all the help packing and everything.

They never showed up at house number two, just sort of disappeared off the face of the earth.

Those of us who knew her dark side or wrath might like to think they were swallowed up in the earth like those in the desert who opposed Moses.

Way II much fun for one man.

love ya,

Bob Hansen

Awwww doggone it Paw, quit Hmmmmmmmmmmming and go!

You're driving me #&*#$@ nuts, you know you will enjoy it. I'd go if my health situation didn't severely limit my ability to travel.

TTessa, I like your Rose avatar, it looks pretty and suits you well.

Rascal, I know you will mother and take care of everyone there, be sure to give yourself time too. Give "Little sirl who should have been Dabobbadina" a hug for me.

Mr. "Cast of Thousands" and all his friends (?!?) and all the rest, Have a great time there, it will be fun and sweet, i'm sure.

Bobba

Way II much fun for one man.

love,

Bob Hansen