templelady

Ah--

Of course LCM"s new and updated version I left in 89 so I naver got the JOY :D--> of LAM's Wisdom

Sorry GeorgeStGeorge but the TWI teaching was really clear on this point. in their doctrine you become "BOrn of the Seed"

I was taught that you are Born of the seed of the devil the same way you are born of GOD --you becaome a new life with the devil as your parent.

A as I explained above only GOd thru Jesus Christ can create life

1: KNow that this is a concept that is not unique to TWI. Actually VPW logic in this case was pretty good. SO I would Say Yes I still believe this one to be true

2: Nope, Different witnesses see things differently, that's why the term "eye witness'" sends shivers up most lawyers backs. Christ Said Three times. If CHrist said THree then THree it is. Unless Christ didn't know what He was talking about. :(-->

3: NO NO NO, He can influence , he can destroy, he can confuse, he can twist he can do a whole host of things. But your Spirit comes from GOD. thru Jesus Christ. ONly Heavenly FAther thru Jesus Christ can create life. Satan is himself one of God's creations.

To believe this TWI claptrap you would have to believe that Michaelangelo's statue of DAvid coud in turn carve a statue.

4. Take over the HOLY SPIRIT????????? that means you believe that Satan is stronger than GOD. LIght and Dark cannot exist in the same space. Light dispels darkness. TO believe this lie of TWI you would have to believe Darkness Dispels Light.

IT is truly terrifying to believe that I at one time believed some of this rot.

Shellon

NO -but I think i'll just trot on over there right now LOL

When I here certain sections of Scripture discussed often my brain starts doing comparative analysis between what I've Heard and What I'm reading and what I am now hearing.

I do have nasty flashbacks --especially when UPset or somewhat depressed about the horror my kids and I wnet thru. BUt even that is getting better as CW and I talk about those long ago days and see them in new light.

While I can Ask GOd not to hold the actions they have performed in this life against them--whoever they may be -- Which is a spritual love akin to Agape---

I obviously do not Have Eros love , Filial Love or any of the Other Human "LOves toward everyone.

I ask not to hold my ex's accountable at the judgemnet day. BUt do I "love" them in an earthlysense anymore??? NOt HArdly

Forgiving

LOving

and Intercession with GOD

are three different aspects of the human condition and may or may not be mutually exclusive depending on the situation, time frame and persons involved.

**** a tornado swirls thru GS dropping Templelady into the midst-yes she is alive--yes she still loves all of you****

I think there is a point that is being missed here. TWI did not commit Biblolatry. Because TWI didn't accept the Bible as written They "fixed" it to coincide with their beliefs,

How many remember Acts 21:14

As Written

quote:

---

And when he [Paul] would not be persuaded we ceased saying, "the will of the Lord be done"

---

BUt no that doesn't Jibe with TWI position

so we end up with

And when he would not be persuaded we ceased saying "the Will of the Lord be Done"

Dispense with one comma and Paul is changed from dedicated to disobedient

And let us never forget the biblical gymnastics of AOS.

( does anyone really believe that if AOS had been swalllowed hook line and sinker by 90% of the rank and file instead of the uproar that ensued, TWI would not be pushing it still??!??

Does anyone seriously believe that if it had been well accepted VPW woold still have denounced it as death approached??!??)

Looking BAck over the "Cult that Snapped" by Karl Kahler I came across this gem

Concluding his defense of the interpretation of scripture to support AOS and the order in which the Kings scepter , Moses' rod and SAul's spear, Elijahs arrow and the crown appear in scripture Walter Cummins says to VPW

Cummins : And That's it. We haven't found a text yet that inverts--

Wierwille-- You haven't YET [emphasis mine]

Cummins:--the crown putting that last, but we will

WIErwille: Good

Cummins: Because it HAs to be

So it isn't there, we can 't find it anywhere, but we have decided it must be there and so by golly come H E double hockey sticks or high water we are going to find it.

Why is my heart not soothed by this single mindedness that will make it "fit like a hand in a glove"?? Probably because no one has ever bothered to check if the glove is the right size to fit the hand it is to cover

The Only thing TWI taught was Mogolatry

My congratulations to Rosie, the BOT, the WGB, and those left in the jail of TWI.

Just think what a great and loving Heavenly Father we hAve in GOD and the wonderous redemption made possible by the atonement of Jesus Christ.

And here is another year--a new day-the first day of the rest of your lives

time to make those apologies, make restitution for the wrongs you have done, confess and ask God and your fellowman for forgiveness, Repent and turn your lives around.

I don't normally preach but I couldn't let this opportunity go by without at least holding out the hand of brotherly reconcillation to you

So mull it over and you may find the other side of the wall of the jail is a much brighter place than you thought possible

Here's hoping ya'll' take the offer

Actually my departure from TWI didn't make all that big a ripple. By then TWI was relieved to see me go, one less "problem child" to deal with. They figured with my health issues I'd be dead in a year anyway.

Now, I'm sure they wish that last ""PRophecy"" had come true LOL

quote:

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And are they going to publicly and privately apologize to each and every person they wronged by their now-admitted heavy-handedness and make reparations to us?

---

That there is the key--their repentance, their contrite heart-their coming to their brothers and sisters to say "i'm Sorry, Please Forgive Me"

Until the leadership can do this-- things will always drift back toward what was.

ANd I'll answer the next question --If Leadership came to me and apologized for what was done to me would I accept their apology and Forgive --Of Course--But that doesn't mean I would then have to return to the Cesspool.

Christ speaks of having to forsake family and everything else to follow him. Many groups rely heavily on this passage to justify some of their actions.

I think in many ways TWI did act for Satan --however I don't think they woke up in the morning planning to do this.

THe big problem with TWI was that they held the collection basket in one hand and a copy of "

the Prince" in the other--somewhere along the line they got confused --they got to thinking "the Prince" and The Prince of Peace were one and the same

WAysurvivor

GO back and read what I said About false memories.

The issue some posters have with you isn't that you believe everything you write is the truth, rather that they believe you have false memories in some areas.

And they need to understand that our memories are REAL. False or not once they become memories they are real to us.

THerefore the person who has these memories suffers just the same as anyone else with such memories.

I too find questionable some of the more Ritualistic parts of your memories--but based on what My family went through--I have no trouble beliving you were raped as you said--my daughter was 3 when it started.

Like everything else concerts here are vey expensive starting at 50-60 for"out behind the Planet pluto seats" and escalating from there to 150-175 At the "gee I can actually see facial features sets".

However in Anchorage it is not illegal to sell your extra tickets outside the venue. I have a friend who when she wants to go to a concert gets there a half and hour before start. she has a twnety dollar bill--she inevitably finds the guy with the ticket for the girl who cancelled etc. Since tickets can't be refunded at the box office they are happy to at least recoup 20 on the deal and she gets some really great seating.

I have not mastered to courage to do this

Let's slow up a bit on the accusations of Lying Okay!??!

Waysurvivor has some serious issues and I would like to throw a few points out for consideration.

1--being group raped in TWI happened (happened to my kids)

2 being forced into silence to keep secrets especially in a small child causes the child to try to block out, causes nightmares where things become exaggerated, causes fantasies where things come out differently and in children, where the line between fantasy and reality is thin to begin with, these things become False Memories.

A lot of research has been done on this kind of thing in the last few years once a memory is in your brain the brain treats it as true.

3 Not all therapists are good- leading questions, suggestive comments etc expecially in formative years can again lead to false memories.

So before we jump on the bandwagon and sat all this couldn't possibly have happened let us stop and reflect

a seven year old, raped while Daddy stood by coupled with the scenarios I have laid out--even if what she remembers is false-- to her it is true because she remembers it that way.

Scary stuff

ANd scince says you can't will false memories away or erase them

so at least let us accept the fact that while everything she says may not be true it is very true to her. And I for one, am willing to accept that this spiraling nightmare occurred because she was in fact raped at 7

***Mo grabbed the almost dead horse and drug him to water where he wouldn't drink, instead he preferred to read a small orange book as he died from dehydration. Then she realized that the whole exercise had been a waste of time, effort and typing skills****

Sorry MIke but that's how I Feel about your more inane commentary--sometimes I thought you did it just to annoy and that you did it just to see how much flak you could create--other times I thought you were clueless.

Now I no longer care, I just wish you would stop maligning and limiting the scope and power of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

And the repercussions go on into the next generation. One of my sons is a parent, the state watched him extra closely in regards to his daughter because the abused so often abuse. In his case that isn't true, but he still has been put through the wringer a couple of times by zealous Social workers who fear he might.

Such is the legacy of TWI

TReading all this stuff--wading through the he did/didn't (pick your topic) and reading the resposnse from Nr Lynn THe bottom line renmains unchanged

A CAsper Mil"quetoast approach to the evils of the past--a I can't be botherd with your pain--it's all behind me now" attitude

Happy for you JL

Just dont want to be ya

Two words

"I'm Sorry"

Trevor,

tithe is taught --I don't know about "drummed into" at least not in my little corner of the universe.

And No one outside of the Bishopric and the Ward clerk ever see the contents of that envelope--much better deal that the collection plate where everyone --from the snoopy lady across the street to the milk carrier-- can note just how much you gice and how often,at least I think so

Cheers

Bad Pirate! Bad Pirate!

ROFLMAO

Raf,

I value your viewpoints and I value you as an internet buddy but you and I diagree here

the entire quote was

quote:

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In regard to your involvement in The Way , you could choose to be a victim, but may I suggest that is not the best perspective. Frederick Douglas, a former slave and then an abolitionist in the time of the Civil War, once said, "The limits of tyrants are prescribed by those whom they oppress." I like to look at my time in The Way in a more positive sense. I want to "eat the fish and spit out the bones."

---

JL clearly states that viewing your self as a victim is

quote:

---

not the best perspective

---

and goes on to say

quote:

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." I like to look at my time in The Way in a more positive sense

---

He is clearly referring to the past and wants usto Look at TWI in a more "POSITIVE" manner.

NOw just exactly how are my three kids, the oldest being ten when the involvement with TWI ended, supposed to view FIVE YEARS OF SEXUAL ABUSE by their father/stepfather and the TWig Coordinator in a "POsitive Manner"?!?!?!?

Hi (((((((((Jeff)))))))))))) I'm glad you are happy in your choices you were one of the first friends I made on the Old WD site.

Have to be h9nest here and say I didn't read all the responses because one line of JL's letter stuck in my craw

quote:

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"In regard to your involvement in The Way , you could choose to be a victim, "

---

I can agree that your attitude after the fact makes the difference in whether you grow or wallow in self pity and I can agree you need to grow But what I cannot accept --will never accept is that children "chose to be victims"

Abuse never goes away by relegating it to the past behind a locked door. When I can hear rom JL and Company

""In regard to your involvement in The Way , you may have been a victim of abuse in some form or another..and we wish to help you overcome that horrendous phase in your life "

I might listen to some of what they say

BUt as long as they keep putting victims, even partially, in the position of somehow being responsible for the victimizer's actions we have nothing to talk about

GOd and Jesus Christ were my anchor before TWI and have remained so--B Ut I am leary of Preachers who claim to have my interest s at heart whose plea everyother week is for more money--(if it's a TV ministry make that 10+ times a day).

LIke the LDS church for that-don't have preachers per se and what you give is your business-no offering plates so everyone can quess you level of sprituality

I have friends and Family who periodically say to me "Mo, WHAT are you thinking?!?" or similar--but they know me very well and it is not so much I'm right and you're wrong ideology as a "Mo, you're going to regret this decision" kind of thing, and often they are right and often they change their minds after I explain my reasoning.

THis is not REPROOF at least not in the TWI sense

Reproof in TWI was akin to "I'm a total mess and so to make myself feel better I have to Jump all over you" Sometimes it was good correction but I'd make that a 98% vs 2% - 2%being the correct kind of reproof

I'm back

From Washington State

Fun things I did

POint Defiance Zoo Tacoma

Westport on Grays Harbor for beach combing and sand castles

Exploring the Freightliner co-op in Tacoma

GOing to Cat Tales Zoo in Spokane

GOing to the BOwl and Pitcher in Spokane

And of course time with family and friends

So what have the rest of you been doing for Vacation or long weekends?

Here in ANchorage we are into our 6th week of 75-85 degree temps,

The hottest summer in a very long time (humidity in the (90's)