Is it possible that the second coming of Christ is something that happens from within?
Why not both? The promise was life in all its forms.
Will Christ come from outer space?
OutSIDE space I figure. We tend to think of the Universe as everything that is, but it is expanding which means it is limited. It has an outer edge beyond which... Check it out: Scientists figure that all things that we "see," being what is, the Universe would slow down its expansion, stop expanding, & collapse in on itself. But it is not; it is expanding - I think at an ever increasing speed, which speed indicates to scientists that besides all the matter &/or energy that we traditionally associate with our idea of the Universe, there has to be antimatter & antienergy being pumped into the Universe to keep it expanding the way it is. As a matter of fact, last I heard, they figure that for the Universe to keep expanding the way it is, it must be made up of approximately 30% the matter & energy we know about & 70% this anti-stuff. Somebody/thing is pumping an awful lot of something from somewhere to keep this thing going. Perhaps that's where Christ is & will come from.
Will Christ come from Earth's upper atmosphere? (i.e. "the clouds")
One of the last things he'll pass on a long (to us) journey.
Or will Christ come through that narrow narrow gate to heaven that is within our very hearts and minds and soul? (i.e. "the very air we breathe")
His coming will change a lot of things in big ways. For one thing, we won't be breathing air anymore. We're talking transformation beyond which we can imagine.
Which would you prefer?
The alternatives are too limiting. Both & more.
Which makes more sense in terms of the spiritual life of Jesus?
I think the spiritual body will incorporate both - spirit & body, right. There will be no separation spiritually, and our body - well, even though we will have our own bodies, we will operate as one body.
Is it possible that most of the figurative language of the Bible refers to transformative INWARD realities of life?
Possible.
Is it possible that all those heavy heavy enigmatic figures could actually be more useful and practical as metaphors for how to temper our own body, soul and spirit?
Those heavy heavy enigmatic figures - as opposed to those light light transparent almost to the point of not being figurative figures? Lost me there, bro.
What does the Bible say about relying on outer things?
It says all our outer thingies will pass away.
if Christ is already supposed to be within, why does he have to come from somewhere else to gather us together?
So we can all mob, straight chillaxin in the big cribset and jammin on the one. holla back and forth and say wassup to all the brahs and breezies up in here in da tru dat place. all feelin each other, you feelin me?
Oh, yeah, plus we'll have stuff to do. Things will be taken to market. There will be FOOD!
and i wonder (not specifically addressed to you, Tom)...and i know it is important to a lot of people...but what would change in our life if one stopped believing and promoting that Jesus is personally coming from some otherwordly faraway place?
what if the entire body of scriptural accounts surrounding this topic are mostly specifically talking about radical change in human behaviour from within, either in an individual, or in large collective waves...even to the point of eventual worldwide transformation?
i mean, what is wrong with that? how much of the NT speaks of (warns of) inward versus outward realities?
and weren't the apostles warned against skygazing for his return?
and told that he will come from heaven the same way he showed them how to enter heaven
(which was the path within, which is what he was teaching prior to his crucifixion)
can you think of a more distinct shift in human understanding?
to repent and turn completely around, is to turn from outer darkness to a greater capacity for inner light
And if so, I wonder if the doctrine of a personal Jesus from the sky actually inhibits interior transformation towards an actual "day star rising in our hearts"
The more we focus on the outer salvation of mankind, the less we find and manifest the actual inner salvation
Its almost as if we have so dramatically become focused on the exterior world, that we have lost touch with the depth of interior spiritual awareness and practice that are a hallmark of not only the past two millenia, but of the OT as well.
I also find it very interesting that a number of 'spiritualist churches' teach that ONE DAY all the BAD PEOPLE are going to be suddenly TAKEN AWAY from this earth so that TRUE spiritual harmony can take place.
Church of the Golden Light Rod is one of these 'spiritualist churches'. Very interesting.
I have almost zero time for this, so please pardon my lack of participation later.
I agree in part with your premise, and have so advocated in the past.
It is my understanding that the EARLY STAGES of the Return are subtle, hidden, and not visible to the five senses. They are within, spiritually, and not noticed by the flesh realm inhabitants.
For us to see (and thus participate in) these early stages of “The Return” (NOW PLAYING in selected local hearts) we need the 3-D glasses that written PFAL mastery will provide us.
In these early and on-going stages it is the Christ in us that RETURNS to the nourishment of the pure Word of PFAL. As the baby Christ in us grows up into manhood on this Word we will work with God in ushering in the LATER STAGES of the end times when the 5-senses world WILL see it.
Coming back to PFAL and The Return are intimately connected on many levels.
I also find it very interesting that a number of 'spiritualist churches' teach that ONE DAY all the BAD PEOPLE are going to be suddenly TAKEN AWAY from this earth so that TRUE spiritual harmony can take place.
Church of the Golden Light Rod is one of these 'spiritualist churches'. Very interesting.
Christ is quite alive and well and living to open these things up within us
yes. if Christ = some archetypal universal penultimate manifestation and logos of whatever beyond naming...yada yada yada (as i believe), then the voice of God must be that which is whatever we hear right here and NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW, which is most directly within us, even though it is also outside of us...we are directly in touch with it right now within us...or all scripture lies.
and again...Christ is beyond naming, no?...or scripture lies. can we all assume that none of us control the meaning of a name, nor does any name ever replace or change the thing that is named?
and there will be sounds and sights and wars in the mind as it trys to live,
i agree. within, our perception of the heavens are to unroll and roll up and unroll and roll up, our entire perception of the earth and creation should shake rattle and roll, many times in life
...or we are stuck, and are no longer free
if merely reading this notion frightens us...we are likely to be far from the path we claim to follow
our belief and faith is of a substance that does not die if it breaks
of scripture lies
faith in God allows our faith to fail, time and time again
the primary difference between lucifer falling and christ falling
...one is terrified of falling, the other is not
so one falls like a dove in love without fear
and is freed by agape
who will stand against His Christ that is within,
only innocent and guilty fools. we all do, naturally, in an infinite variety of ways.
why kick against the Glory that shall be and can be revealed in us.
because we simply dont know
because we do not have a tongue for it
and have to gain one
and we are usually terribly afraid
and most everyone we know is afraid
we are born afraid and hurt
so we naturally resist the opening of our own hearts
and resist the most glorifying act of life, in any language...in any religion...in any time
but we can also learn to practice opening it til the day we day
You have set a time frame for the timeless Lord God Almighty. There is not one.
well put. and this might sound strange....but if the innermost man is always only always wanting to open
this is the timeless nature of our very self
present time presence is the only place the eternal newness of an eternal christ can truly be found
...or the scriptures seem to lie
in the end of the book of revelation of jesus christ, time itself ceases to matter....to the author of the book,
who then never saw heaven and earth the same way again, and finally saw God everywhere, in not just in places, or hiding
You limit yourself by your own musings and not by letting the Lord work.
thus, the terrifying sound of surrender
A certain philosophical or study pattern built by men.
Such maps of God are fine, but they are not the territory they describe.
Men forget this.
But God is not afraid to compare and evaluate them all
as well as create better ones
there is no reason to be afraid of smashing a broken pot
..or scripture lies
It will not hold up against the fire of God.
thank God
Hell is at the door and Heaven will abound in every soul.
right here
right now
And has already worked it's work in millions.
the heresy is in choosing to look only at some over the rest
Allan w is an obsessive stalker. He finds someone who's beliefs are different than his own, and follows them everywhere, posting nastiness about those people, not about the topic being posted about. He lies and misquotes people.That is ALL he does.
Last month he stalked Temple Lady, this month it's dancing and Sir guess, next month it'll be some one else.
Doctrinal is the easiest place for him to find his victims.
Is it possible that the second coming of Christ is something that happens from within?
Possible? Yes. But does it have to be only from within? It seem to me that since His departure from the earth was physical from the prospective of those seeing and and witnessing it, that his return would similar. "Return" implies a previous presence and a departure. How then does "return" apply to "within" ? Was there a departure from within?
A return is a coming, but a coming is not necessarily a return. Christ can and does come to us inwardly. So in biblical terms, I would refer to the inward as a coming rather than a return.
Acts 1:9-11 (King James Version)
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Here above, I see both a departure and and a "return". I see this as a return of Christ in biblical terms. Some may refer to this as the "second coming". This particular passage does not seem to be figuratively speaking of a return from within. However .....
I do also see an inner appearing (the new birth) and a spiritual "comming" if you will, within an individual.
Ephesians 3 (King James Version)
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
I make a distinction between the (second?) "comming" of Christ, as referred to in Acts 3 and an inner return or coming as may be understood in terms of the new birth and in terms of spiritual growth and enlightenment ( filled with all the fulness of God). I think both of these "comings", can live harmoniously within Christian doctrine.
In other words I don't see a need to dispense with the idea of a coming (return event) or a need to necessarily interpret everythingin the bible figuratively in terms of inward things -- in order to also espouse the idea of an inward coming as a result of the persuit of inward growth and enlightenment.
For what it's worth, "second coming" is not actually a biblical term. Coming, return and appearing are. So again, I see nothing that prevents Christ from coming to us inwardly as we persue spiritual growth and enlightnement while also coming literally and physically as in Acts 3. Can't both be possible? I think so.
Will Christ come from outer space?
Will Christ come from Earth's upper atmosphere? (i.e. "the clouds")
Or will Christ come through that narrow narrow gate to heaven that is within our very hearts and minds and soul? (i.e. "the very air we breathe")
Which would you prefer?
Which makes more sense in terms of the spiritual life of Jesus?
While the scriptures seem to say that he will "appear" in the clouds I would guess that he will be "coming" from "heaven" which I see as probably another dimension, a spiritual dimension not detectable or seen by the human senses. But I have no real preference where he comes from. Come Lord Jesus.
Jesus indeed had a spiritual life and a spiritual presence. He also had a physical life and a physical presence upon earth. I don't think of Jesus as a mythical figure, but as a real man that historically and physically walked on on the earth. So I think things should makes sense in terms of both the spirtual realities and the physical realities.
Is it possible that most of the figurative language of the Bible refers to transformative INWARD realities of life?
Possible? Yes. But isn't it also possible that much of it refers to outward realities as well? I don't it as a black & white issue where it must be mostly one way or the other.
Is it possible that all those heavy heavy enigmatic figures could actually be more useful and practical as metaphors for how to temper our own body, soul and spirit?
More useful as opposed to what what for example? Isn't there more to life and Christianity than just our own selves and our own personal growth and temperment? Among other things, what about service to others on a physical plane? Outward things. Can't these figures also be practially applied in areas that are not inward to one's self ? Again, I don see that one necessarily precludes the other.
What does the Bible say about relying on outer things?
Do you have any verses you would like to discuss here?
if Christ is already supposed to be within, why does he have to come from somewhere else to gather us together?
Why must having the spirit of Christ within us now, preclude a gathering of the harvest some time the future?
[edited out]...Does it bother you that you and Todd have got the foulest mouths on this forum ?? Dancing/clay/cm..why would anyone take anything you say seriously when you keep changing your pseudonym willy nilly (like what are you trying to conceal) ...rhetorical question.
Why are you and Todd so (zealous) to explain away the return of Jesus Christ ? This week I will try to find the 'general creed' of these spiritualist churches (which I have somewhere) and I will post it. Then people can see why you are posing the questions you are posting.
...but what would change in our life if one stopped believing and promoting that Jesus is personally coming from some otherwordly faraway place?
Not much, I don't suspect. Both are speculative in nature and since we don't have any real detail about either, its basically 'the hope' packaged with different dogma. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Its just hard to see how substituting one set of vague and uncertain tenets for another set of the same would have a specific impact on one's daily actions.
That sounded a little harsher than I actually meant it. Hope plays an integral part in our lives and its the hope that's important, not necessarily what that hope is. My thinking on the return has changed more than once through the years, but I just can't remember those changes affecting my life beyond some sense of personal satisfaction that maybe I'm growing and seeing more. Of course, my wife may disagree with that perception...
And by the way allan alf your mouth sickens The Christ in You that is dead asleep. And you actually give me more strength then you know to accuse me of having a demon or more. They said the same about Jesus so I'm in good company.
When you are ready to face yourself in the mirror of Christ what will actually die and change. Can demons be transformed into angels of light? Can Angels of light be transformed into demons? Experience this first hand and you may have a glimpse of what you talk about yet know nothing of.
That can give a lot of info on the so called second coming of Christ.
If Christ came once the first time, when did he leave?
Acts !? They-the two who were speaking said that you will see him come in like manner as you have seen him.
9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Well just how far away was he taken up?
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
How much more and different is this "another Comforter"?
And did it not happen to those Jesus said that would experience this?
I see no problem believing in spiritual transformation now & a physical transformation at the physical return of Christ accompanied, at that time, by a dramatic spiritual transformation made possible by our new spiritual bodies.
However, there is something about the return that I learned a couple of days ago that does strike me as having the potential to lead me into an exclusively outward (to the exclusion of any spiritual considerations) view of the return. "Potential" mind you; it's a perception (my perception) thing.
Maybe I'm wrong about this (& I don't want to get the thread sidetracked), but I realized the other day that, in order, we get gathered together, then there's seven years of tribulation (& I really don't want to sidetrack the thread onto a when is the trib discussion), then the 1st resurrection, then the Millenial Kingdom during which Christ reigns on earth for 1000 years - all happening before the new heaven & earth.
So what? Previously, when I would consider life after the return, I would see it happening in the new heaven & earth, the new paradise on earth, & wherever - but a long time from now. But if Christ is reigning for the 1000 years starting seven years from say maybe NOW, well, that's not all that far away. I know that there are Christians who are seriously - a lot more seriously than I am - engaged in effecting change in our country's politics, policies, whatever - AFFAIRS - toward a more Christian society. They see their actions here as building toward the functions Christ will give them in the Millenial Kingdom. Their perception of rewards is a lot more directly connected to what they are doing now than mine is.
All of which has what to do with this thread? On the one hand, I envy them their fervor, their engagement, & the concreteness of their vision. On the other hand, I wonder whether they're not making the same mistake that Israel made at the 1st coming of Jesus in thinking that he was going to build a kingdom on earth that would last forever. On the one foot, Jesus IS going to have a real, physical kingdom going during those (maybe seven years away) 1000 years. On the other foot, OUR kingdom is still the Kingdom of God residing within at the present time.
Or is it? What about the Christian origins of our country (I mean aside from all the non-Christian stuff). What IS the place of the Body of Christ & members in particular in our politics & society, & what significance does our participation play when rewards are given - or do we just pull people out of the evil times & protect them in the HOUSEHOLD? Okay, I know that in this last paragraph I've been out of hands & feet, & any other appendage is just not up for grabs (how's that for lack of committment?), but these questions ARE close to home.
get this...dancer is reproved for simply calling allen a bastard (which is basically an empty insult, like jerkweed, or dipstick, and has nothing to do with allen's actual birthright)
yet allen remains able to make serious specific and repeated slanderous and inflammatory accusations against people and organizations he knows virtually nothing about, all the while menacing!?!
This week I will try to find the 'general creed' of these spiritualist churches (which I have somewhere) and I will post it. Then people can see why you are posing the questions you are posting.
If you have the information, great, post it or a link. Of course, that doesn't mean that Sir Guess or anyone else here believes everything in those creeds, but it might be some relevant information. Better than your usual attacks-without-substance.
However, not everyone is as shocked as you are at beliefs that fall outside the PFAL pale, or even outside the Christian norm (whatever that is ). You deride certain posters for their beliefs, but you seldom if ever explain why you find these beliefs laughable, or lay out what specifically is wrong with them.
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Tom
Sir G,
Always the engaging thinker.
Is it possible that the second coming of Christ is something that happens from within?
Why not both? The promise was life in all its forms.
Will Christ come from outer space?
OutSIDE space I figure. We tend to think of the Universe as everything that is, but it is expanding which means it is limited. It has an outer edge beyond which... Check it out: Scientists figure that all things that we "see," being what is, the Universe would slow down its expansion, stop expanding, & collapse in on itself. But it is not; it is expanding - I think at an ever increasing speed, which speed indicates to scientists that besides all the matter &/or energy that we traditionally associate with our idea of the Universe, there has to be antimatter & antienergy being pumped into the Universe to keep it expanding the way it is. As a matter of fact, last I heard, they figure that for the Universe to keep expanding the way it is, it must be made up of approximately 30% the matter & energy we know about & 70% this anti-stuff. Somebody/thing is pumping an awful lot of something from somewhere to keep this thing going. Perhaps that's where Christ is & will come from.
Will Christ come from Earth's upper atmosphere? (i.e. "the clouds")
One of the last things he'll pass on a long (to us) journey.
Or will Christ come through that narrow narrow gate to heaven that is within our very hearts and minds and soul? (i.e. "the very air we breathe")
His coming will change a lot of things in big ways. For one thing, we won't be breathing air anymore. We're talking transformation beyond which we can imagine.
Which would you prefer?
The alternatives are too limiting. Both & more.
Which makes more sense in terms of the spiritual life of Jesus?
I think the spiritual body will incorporate both - spirit & body, right. There will be no separation spiritually, and our body - well, even though we will have our own bodies, we will operate as one body.
Is it possible that most of the figurative language of the Bible refers to transformative INWARD realities of life?
Possible.
Is it possible that all those heavy heavy enigmatic figures could actually be more useful and practical as metaphors for how to temper our own body, soul and spirit?
Those heavy heavy enigmatic figures - as opposed to those light light transparent almost to the point of not being figurative figures? Lost me there, bro.
What does the Bible say about relying on outer things?
It says all our outer thingies will pass away.
if Christ is already supposed to be within, why does he have to come from somewhere else to gather us together?
So we can all mob, straight chillaxin in the big cribset and jammin on the one. holla back and forth and say wassup to all the brahs and breezies up in here in da tru dat place. all feelin each other, you feelin me?
Oh, yeah, plus we'll have stuff to do. Things will be taken to market. There will be FOOD!
it's all good,
word up,
t
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sirguessalot
ha! very nice, Tom
thank you
:)
and i wonder (not specifically addressed to you, Tom)...and i know it is important to a lot of people...but what would change in our life if one stopped believing and promoting that Jesus is personally coming from some otherwordly faraway place?
what if the entire body of scriptural accounts surrounding this topic are mostly specifically talking about radical change in human behaviour from within, either in an individual, or in large collective waves...even to the point of eventual worldwide transformation?
i mean, what is wrong with that? how much of the NT speaks of (warns of) inward versus outward realities?
and weren't the apostles warned against skygazing for his return?
and told that he will come from heaven the same way he showed them how to enter heaven
(which was the path within, which is what he was teaching prior to his crucifixion)
can you think of a more distinct shift in human understanding?
to repent and turn completely around, is to turn from outer darkness to a greater capacity for inner light
And if so, I wonder if the doctrine of a personal Jesus from the sky actually inhibits interior transformation towards an actual "day star rising in our hearts"
The more we focus on the outer salvation of mankind, the less we find and manifest the actual inner salvation
Its almost as if we have so dramatically become focused on the exterior world, that we have lost touch with the depth of interior spiritual awareness and practice that are a hallmark of not only the past two millenia, but of the OT as well.
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allan w.
I also find it very interesting that a number of 'spiritualist churches' teach that ONE DAY all the BAD PEOPLE are going to be suddenly TAKEN AWAY from this earth so that TRUE spiritual harmony can take place.
Church of the Golden Light Rod is one of these 'spiritualist churches'. Very interesting.
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Mike
Hi Todd,
I have almost zero time for this, so please pardon my lack of participation later.
I agree in part with your premise, and have so advocated in the past.
It is my understanding that the EARLY STAGES of the Return are subtle, hidden, and not visible to the five senses. They are within, spiritually, and not noticed by the flesh realm inhabitants.
For us to see (and thus participate in) these early stages of “The Return” (NOW PLAYING in selected local hearts) we need the 3-D glasses that written PFAL mastery will provide us.
In these early and on-going stages it is the Christ in us that RETURNS to the nourishment of the pure Word of PFAL. As the baby Christ in us grows up into manhood on this Word we will work with God in ushering in the LATER STAGES of the end times when the 5-senses world WILL see it.
Coming back to PFAL and The Return are intimately connected on many levels.
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sirguessalot
yeah, allen
that is interesting
and i dont really believe that
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sirguessalot
thanks for the reply, Mike
i hope you find the time, some time
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sirguessalot
at play with Dancer
pasted from revvel's "signless return" thread
Dancer is black
My words are blue
Christ is quite alive and well and living to open these things up within us
yes. if Christ = some archetypal universal penultimate manifestation and logos of whatever beyond naming...yada yada yada (as i believe), then the voice of God must be that which is whatever we hear right here and NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW, which is most directly within us, even though it is also outside of us...we are directly in touch with it right now within us...or all scripture lies.
and again...Christ is beyond naming, no?...or scripture lies. can we all assume that none of us control the meaning of a name, nor does any name ever replace or change the thing that is named?
and there will be sounds and sights and wars in the mind as it trys to live,
i agree. within, our perception of the heavens are to unroll and roll up and unroll and roll up, our entire perception of the earth and creation should shake rattle and roll, many times in life
...or we are stuck, and are no longer free
if merely reading this notion frightens us...we are likely to be far from the path we claim to follow
our belief and faith is of a substance that does not die if it breaks
of scripture lies
faith in God allows our faith to fail, time and time again
the primary difference between lucifer falling and christ falling
...one is terrified of falling, the other is not
so one falls like a dove in love without fear
and is freed by agape
who will stand against His Christ that is within,
only innocent and guilty fools. we all do, naturally, in an infinite variety of ways.
why kick against the Glory that shall be and can be revealed in us.
because we simply dont know
because we do not have a tongue for it
and have to gain one
and we are usually terribly afraid
and most everyone we know is afraid
we are born afraid and hurt
so we naturally resist the opening of our own hearts
and resist the most glorifying act of life, in any language...in any religion...in any time
but we can also learn to practice opening it til the day we day
You have set a time frame for the timeless Lord God Almighty. There is not one.
well put. and this might sound strange....but if the innermost man is always only always wanting to open
this is the timeless nature of our very self
present time presence is the only place the eternal newness of an eternal christ can truly be found
...or the scriptures seem to lie
in the end of the book of revelation of jesus christ, time itself ceases to matter....to the author of the book,
who then never saw heaven and earth the same way again, and finally saw God everywhere, in not just in places, or hiding
You limit yourself by your own musings and not by letting the Lord work.
thus, the terrifying sound of surrender
A certain philosophical or study pattern built by men.
Such maps of God are fine, but they are not the territory they describe.
Men forget this.
But God is not afraid to compare and evaluate them all
as well as create better ones
there is no reason to be afraid of smashing a broken pot
..or scripture lies
It will not hold up against the fire of God.
thank God
Hell is at the door and Heaven will abound in every soul.
right here
right now
And has already worked it's work in millions.
the heresy is in choosing to look only at some over the rest
The eye of God is never afraid to look
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dancing
You truly bless my soul todd.
A thousand miles apart yet seeing like never before for me.
God SCREAMS to look inside while so many look outside of themselves.
Why is it that there is no distinction between the atmosphere and space?
Why is that the inside must be clean for the outside to be clean.
Why is it that we are to renew our minds and not someone elses.
Why is it that Jesus said that the kingdom is within you.
Why is it that God with all his vast power claims to have made his home within us.
Why does He declare that we are the temple of the living God.
Why do we see and not see so many things.
So many put the events of revelations outside of themselves
instead of taking the time to see and consider that the
Revelation of Jesus Christ happens in the mind.
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allan w.
You two crack me up..well planned I might say but childish nevertheless
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dancing
planned?
poor guess allan or should i call you alf
You are a rotten bastard
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Tom
Dang it; now I have beer on my computer screen.
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dancing
lol Tom,
don't let alf's distractions distract you from the subject of the thread
rock on....
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Bramble
Allan w is an obsessive stalker. He finds someone who's beliefs are different than his own, and follows them everywhere, posting nastiness about those people, not about the topic being posted about. He lies and misquotes people.That is ALL he does.
Last month he stalked Temple Lady, this month it's dancing and Sir guess, next month it'll be some one else.
Doctrinal is the easiest place for him to find his victims.
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Goey
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allan w.
[edited out]...Does it bother you that you and Todd have got the foulest mouths on this forum ?? Dancing/clay/cm..why would anyone take anything you say seriously when you keep changing your pseudonym willy nilly (like what are you trying to conceal) ...rhetorical question.
Why are you and Todd so (zealous) to explain away the return of Jesus Christ ? This week I will try to find the 'general creed' of these spiritualist churches (which I have somewhere) and I will post it. Then people can see why you are posing the questions you are posting.
Whilst on that
...[edited out]
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JumpinJive
Not much, I don't suspect. Both are speculative in nature and since we don't have any real detail about either, its basically 'the hope' packaged with different dogma. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Its just hard to see how substituting one set of vague and uncertain tenets for another set of the same would have a specific impact on one's daily actions.
That sounded a little harsher than I actually meant it. Hope plays an integral part in our lives and its the hope that's important, not necessarily what that hope is. My thinking on the return has changed more than once through the years, but I just can't remember those changes affecting my life beyond some sense of personal satisfaction that maybe I'm growing and seeing more. Of course, my wife may disagree with that perception...
-JJ
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Goey
.
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dancing
Actually allan alf. Todd and I put our spiritual powers together and make crop circles all over the world.
:) :) :)
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dancing
And by the way allan alf your mouth sickens The Christ in You that is dead asleep. And you actually give me more strength then you know to accuse me of having a demon or more. They said the same about Jesus so I'm in good company.
When you are ready to face yourself in the mirror of Christ what will actually die and change. Can demons be transformed into angels of light? Can Angels of light be transformed into demons? Experience this first hand and you may have a glimpse of what you talk about yet know nothing of.
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dancing
Anyways when was the first coming of Christ?
That can give a lot of info on the so called second coming of Christ.
If Christ came once the first time, when did he leave?
Acts !? They-the two who were speaking said that you will see him come in like manner as you have seen him.
9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Well just how far away was he taken up?
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
How much more and different is this "another Comforter"?
And did it not happen to those Jesus said that would experience this?
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dancing
And for allan alf I will rephrase what I said earlier-
Allan, you post things that only a rotten bastard would post. Surely you aren't a rotten bastard, are you?
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Tom
Todd, dancing, & whoever I guess,
I see no problem believing in spiritual transformation now & a physical transformation at the physical return of Christ accompanied, at that time, by a dramatic spiritual transformation made possible by our new spiritual bodies.
However, there is something about the return that I learned a couple of days ago that does strike me as having the potential to lead me into an exclusively outward (to the exclusion of any spiritual considerations) view of the return. "Potential" mind you; it's a perception (my perception) thing.
Maybe I'm wrong about this (& I don't want to get the thread sidetracked), but I realized the other day that, in order, we get gathered together, then there's seven years of tribulation (& I really don't want to sidetrack the thread onto a when is the trib discussion), then the 1st resurrection, then the Millenial Kingdom during which Christ reigns on earth for 1000 years - all happening before the new heaven & earth.
So what? Previously, when I would consider life after the return, I would see it happening in the new heaven & earth, the new paradise on earth, & wherever - but a long time from now. But if Christ is reigning for the 1000 years starting seven years from say maybe NOW, well, that's not all that far away. I know that there are Christians who are seriously - a lot more seriously than I am - engaged in effecting change in our country's politics, policies, whatever - AFFAIRS - toward a more Christian society. They see their actions here as building toward the functions Christ will give them in the Millenial Kingdom. Their perception of rewards is a lot more directly connected to what they are doing now than mine is.
All of which has what to do with this thread? On the one hand, I envy them their fervor, their engagement, & the concreteness of their vision. On the other hand, I wonder whether they're not making the same mistake that Israel made at the 1st coming of Jesus in thinking that he was going to build a kingdom on earth that would last forever. On the one foot, Jesus IS going to have a real, physical kingdom going during those (maybe seven years away) 1000 years. On the other foot, OUR kingdom is still the Kingdom of God residing within at the present time.
Or is it? What about the Christian origins of our country (I mean aside from all the non-Christian stuff). What IS the place of the Body of Christ & members in particular in our politics & society, & what significance does our participation play when rewards are given - or do we just pull people out of the evil times & protect them in the HOUSEHOLD? Okay, I know that in this last paragraph I've been out of hands & feet, & any other appendage is just not up for grabs (how's that for lack of committment?), but these questions ARE close to home.
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sirguessalot
my oh my
get this...dancer is reproved for simply calling allen a bastard (which is basically an empty insult, like jerkweed, or dipstick, and has nothing to do with allen's actual birthright)
yet allen remains able to make serious specific and repeated slanderous and inflammatory accusations against people and organizations he knows virtually nothing about, all the while menacing!?!
wow
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Oakspear
However, not everyone is as shocked as you are at beliefs that fall outside the PFAL pale, or even outside the Christian norm (whatever that is
). You deride certain posters for their beliefs, but you seldom if ever explain why you find these beliefs laughable, or lay out what specifically is wrong with them.
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