Or is that what happens when one does it too much? ohmy.gif
Yeah, that's what it was. I was in such "demand", that I had to stop and "do service......" :) :) :)
And in actuality, because this is a topic that is passionate to me, I was just doing a "bump" thing, to bring this topic to the top. I was really hoping for a response to what I posted from Vegan, but, she is either busy, which is certainly understandable, or didn't want to respond.
Man oh man. The animal rights thing just sticks in my craw as one of the most illogical wastes of human energy that I can imagine. Not that I do not care about animals, but, the illogic behind some of these "movements" is unbelieveable. And now, let me tell you a little bit about me, once known as "Nature Boy" in my suburban Washington DC Metro neighborhood in Maryland, just north of the DC line.
When I was in ninth grade, I found three kids who hung a cat from a tree and beat it to death with a baseball bat. They had "tried it" because it had killed a mouse.; I walked into this situation too late (for the cat) and beat the dang s h i t out of those guys because I was incensed with the senselessness of the killing. Out of my mind with passion because of how heinous the scene was. I was like the little boy in the movie "A Chrsitmas Story" who beat up the bad kid with the racoon hat. I was infuriated at the senselessness of it. Also, I came to the defense of a five foot long black snake that was in the process of being killed by some "Baltimorons" (guys from Baltimore) just because the snake was sunning itself on a rock. I hate senseless killing. Unfortunately, these older guys beat the crap out of me and my friends because we (I) waslipping off to them and calling them assholes for killing a perfectly harmless Black Rat Snake.
And so. I love animals. I abhor senseless killing. But, I do believe that taking wild game, and eating domestic stock for food is a good thing. If I had my way, I would eat only organically grown beef, schicken, or pork. It's the way God made things. And so. There is a little bit about me, and what I believe about animals and things to eat.
Senseless killing= BAD!
Killing for food and making that kill as humane as possible= GOOD!
I saw on the news recently that the fiasco with fresh spinach may have been caused by fecal matter from wild boars. There have been sighting of wild pigs in virtually all the lower 48 states. Wild geese present a similar problem in that areas that they frequent easily become contaminated with E-coli from their droppings.
Black bears are constantly increasing in numbers and consequently becoming a danger.
It's not too unusual to see coyote roadkill, but recently I saw one stand beside a busy road and wait for traffic to clear, much like you would expect of a domestic dog. I don't know what the answers are but I think we need to continue to search for them. Harp on, fellow bender.
Killing for food and making that kill as humane as possible= GOOD!
I'll give you this, that killing by hunting is certainly more humane than the environment of the slaughter houses. In California they even sell "cruelty free" meat. Thats if you don't consider killing the animal as cruelty.
Man wiped out the Buffalo almost completely, and so, with regulations, Man can "whittle down" the population of the deer to where there are far less problems, and less unsightly deer slaughters on the highway, not to mention injuries and fatalities to humans.
Man could lower the population if he wanted, but it is maintained at the high levels for the benefit of the hunting business. The associated problems are tolerated to make the sport easier. There are very few hunters who need the kill to survive. If hunting was banned in an area, the population could be maintained at a much lower level and would have to be done with neutering.
Man could lower the population if he wanted, but it is maintained at the high levels for the benefit of the hunting business.
Jerry. You say this as if it is the Truth. Is it The Truth? I don't know bro. It sounds to me that there should be some factual back up to this statement. I think that the reason for the high numbers in the varying herds is because there is pressure from the non hunters to protect all of these beautiful creatures. The question is: Which is The Truth?
I still think that neutering is way too costly to achieve the desired effects.
Here in Ohio the bag limit was raised a number of years ago because of the OVERPOPULATION of deer.
I would like to see some FACTS showing the the population is intentionally kept high JUST for hunting purposes. Facts from somewhere other than a peta related site because they have zero credibility.
Yeah, I hear ya Rick. And, good for Ahia. And one of the problems with Ohio, at least in many areas, is that because it has so much farm land with the trees cut, alot of the hunting must be done with shotguns using rifled slugs because a high powered rifle round carries too far. The huiman population is such that the risk of a high powered rifle is too high, and so, one must get much closer to the deer with a shotgun, which gives the deer herd a higher survival rate. At least that was the way it was in New Knoxville.
If hunting was banned in an area, the population could be maintained at a much lower level and would have to be done with neutering.
Evidently you are in favor of banning hunting which you evidently believe is the right thing to do. Well, that is your Belief and not mine. I don't need to eat deer meat, but I like to eat deer meat, just like you may like to eat a vegetarian pizza. And I like the hunt, the stalk, and the satisfaction of a successful hunt. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Don't make your Beliefs a Law keeping me from my Beliefs.
Jerry. You say this as if it is the Truth. Is it The Truth? I don't know bro. It sounds to me that there should be some factual back up to this statement. I think that the reason for the high numbers in the varying herds is because there is pressure from the non hunters to protect all of these beautiful creatures. The question is: Which is The Truth?
I looked around for some facts and couldn't find anything that connected the desired deer population with hunting. A lot of opinions, but no facts. There are no facts that pressure from non hunters is the cause either.
The fact is, early in the 20th century, hunting was banned because we almost wiped out the deer population. Luckily deer recover rather quickly. It seems that now we have a nationwide overpopulation of deer. At this point, killing the deer is the only viable option to control the population size. But in inhabited areas this poses its own problems. I don't want hunting banned altogether, but as a method of control should be restricted to less populated areas. Control of the deer population in inhabited areas could be done through birth control. We could employ both methods.
The clash between civilization and wildlife is only going to continue until we divide up the space into wild reserves and inhabited areas.
The current practice of keeping deer populations high enough that they can be hunted, and the past management practice of bucks only hunting, combined with the belief by many hunters that they should only shoot bucks if they want to keep deer numbers high, is precisely the reason why there are too many deer, particularly does.
http://www.huntfairchase.com/docs/f293cc30.doc I wasn't able to open this completely, so I can't quote from it, but you'll be able to see the magazine and issue it came from if you want to run down to the library and look.
For Jonny:
Evidently you are in favor of banning hunting which you evidently believe is the right thing to do. Well, that is your Belief and not mine. I don't need to eat deer meat, but I like to eat deer meat, just like you may like to eat a vegetarian pizza. And I like the hunt, the stalk, and the satisfaction of a successful hunt. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Don't make your Beliefs a Law keeping me from my Beliefs.
Jonny, people have beliefs about African Americans, and women, and homosexuals, and Jews, and any other minority you can think of, that are horribly prejudiced. Am I wrong because I fight for their (our) best interests even though it may not line up with someone else's beliefs? Is it wrong for me to believe the same life that is given to all mankind and all animals is sacred and worth protecting and fighting for, even if you don't?
And Isaiah 66:3 says killing an ox is like killing a man. But people who do that are choosing their own ways and are happy doing wrong.
Because there is a movement to ban all hunting and you know it. And a step in the neutering direction is a step toward the banning of hunting. AND, neutering is costly, and, and it is NOT NATURAL. Hunting is NATURAL, and would provide meat and enjoyment for those who like to hunt. Sharpshooters could get permits to hunt the suburban green belts, and money for the government could be made, instead of spent.
And this is why I am opposed to it. You know darn well that a large amount of "animal rightsers" consider hunters murderers. And believe me, I know this because my sister is a card carrying member of PETA, and a very militant Vegan. She considers my late brother and I murderers. I resent that, and I resent anyone using bogus "science" to further their emotion based causes. Give me good, sound, biological science, not "emotionalistic beliefs".
Hunting works, and feeds those who enjoy that kind of food. Alaska's 12,000 wolves can't be wrong.
Thank you for the links, VeganXTC. However, I only got a blank page on the first one.
In your first post you said:
But as far as the huge populations of animals, you can blame that on your local, state and federal governments. To get more hunters, and their money, they have wildlife management or consevation programs in order to raise the number of hunted animals. The more animals, the more money from the sale of hunting licenses.
OK, maybe it's just me but that wording makes it sound like the government has some diabolical hidden agenda going on to keep all that hunting money coming in. :) The quote you provided said:
The current practice of keeping deer populations high enough that they can be hunted, and the past management practice of bucks only hunting, combined with the belief by many hunters that they should only shoot bucks if they want to keep deer numbers high, is precisely the reason why there are too many deer, particularly does.
I don't see how this sounds like a bad thing. Sounds to me like they are making sure that the population doesn't get hunted to extinction.
Listen, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't think all hunters are horrible evil people. I don't think you have given that impression. But I have to tell you something....there are bad apples in EVERY bunch. Yes, there are some people who would go out and shoot every animal they can, and leave the carcass's there to rot. Those are not Hunters. Those are @ssholes. :) I think you will find the most hunters will take what the can use, and no more. And NEVER will a REAL hunter shoot an animal just for the sake of shooting it. (Well, 'cept maybe groundhogs.) :) You know, believe it or not, most hunters LOVE animals.
See, you support PETA. That's fine. PETA has some GOOD principles. I won't say they are tottally wrong about everything. But then PETA has their loony's too. How about ALF? I would almost be willing to bet you don't support them, right?
OK, I know we will not agree on the issue of hunting, but I respect your belief anyway!
I use a .338 Winchester Magnum round (210 grain Nosler partition bullet), in my Ruger M-77 .338 Win Mag rifle. The reason I go so heavy is because I hunt where the big brown bears live also. There are three islands, Admiralty, Baranoff, and Chichagoff, where the brown bears are abundant. Admiralty boasts the largest population of Coastal Brown Bears in the world, and recently "upgraded" it's status from having one brown bear per square mile to two brown bears per square mile. Black bear simply do not live where these monsters live, for, they'll get eaten. On the mainland here in Juneau, we have mostly black bears, but enough brown bears to make me want to carry the big bore rifle.
Amongst those who hunt the big bears, the rule of thumb is that the .338 Win Mag is as small as you want to go, with the .375 H and H round the most common big bear rifle/round. Although many go as large as the .458 magnum. I bought my .338 mag Ruger because I also hunt moose, which is usually in bear country. When moose hunting a couple of years ago up in the Endicott River country (google it if you want), while in a thick stand of alders, I found a big pile of dead salmon all covered up with leaves and sticks scratched over it, as well as a good amount of bear scat and, huge brown bear footprints! Man, my hair stood straight up on the back of my neck and I felt like one of those guys in the movie "Predator", where the Thing was watching from some hidden location! And so, I flicked the safety off and backed out of there and my head was a turret. Apparently brown bears are so fast, that even a big rifle may not help you.
Hunting like that always made me think of the PFAL Class registration card where it says; "Makes Life Meaningful". I don't know, there is just an exhillaration that comes with being in the danger zone like that. If you want to read a cool book, read "Alaska Bear Tales". Because it has story after story where the bears get the humans. And hey, maybe Vegan and Dirty Dozen would like to read where the Animals get in their licks and bites!
Yeah, when I first came to Alaska in 82 after I graduated from the Corps, I read that book and wished I hadn't. For every time I was in the woods, I'd think of those monsters out there. Kind of disrupted my "Believing Images Of Victory" mindset. And for the record, I'd never hunt the brown bear, the meat reportedly is not pleasant at all, and so for me, no reason to hunt them. Now, the black bear is another story, and there are so many here on the mainland they are like rats, and the make great stew meat or sausage. There are too many in my opinion, and they need to be whittled down as well. Problem is, we have animal rights people here who have made it hard to cull out the problem bears. One cop got into big trouble for shooting a bear that had gotten into a ladies house while the lady had left her daughter Home Alone. The daughter was trapped upstairs while this old sow was in their kitchen eating up a big sack of dry dog food. So, the cop investigated the nine year old girl's call and came face to face with the p.o.'d bear in the kitchen and shot it. Should have been the end of the story, but noooo! Makes me ill to see a perfectly good cop get into trouble in such a liberal town like Juneau, just because he tried to "serve and protect". And, a friend of ours was mauled a few years back while walking through a suburban neighborhood here in Juneau in broad daylight, and she alsmost died. The bear chomped her waiste badly and also tore her scalp off and she almost bled to death. Bears walking the neighborhood, not a good thing at all...
I think perhaps some of you have misunderstood me. I don't hate deer. My next door neighbor has a feeding stand and I enjoy watching them. I think it is unfortunate that there are so many of them. My only real fear is that someone I love will hit one of them with a vehicle and get injured or killed. Today at 11:55 AM I was driving 55 mph down a fairly busy two-lane state highway, and a 6-8 point buck and two does ran to within 20 feet of the road. My grandson was in the back on the side of the car they would have run into. I just almost stopped in the highway, and they kind of changed their minds and loped away.
However, I do not agree that that deer's life is equally sacred to a human's and as important as a humans. God said He made man in His own image. not deer.
Jonny--------Though the black bears tend to be less aggressive than the brown bears(of which the grizzly is a member) they can also be quite dangerous. A sow defending her cubs is not something you would ever want to encounter. In northeast Ohio/northwest PA., local communities have been known to ban bird feeders as the feed attracts black bears. Unlike brown bears, black bears have the ability to climb so that compounds the danger.
WG---------Glad to hear that all were OK in your latest incident.
As to GVT. profits, in many locales, the proceeds from hunting and fishing licenses go into funds that benefit conservation measures and thereby benefit both the wildlife and the human population as well.
Once while on a hiking trail, one of the easy ones, in Great Smokey Mts. National park, we came back to the parking area to find a rather large redneck-y and none-too-sober sort of guy in a tussle with a 1-2 year old black bear. He had decided to kick the bear to death for some stupid reason, probably too much alcohol. The bear had calmly, well, not too calmly, put its canine teeth clean through Bubba's $200 leather hiking boots. All of us, however, were rooting for the bear, which eventually broke off the engagement and took off through the woods. My only regret was that mama bear was evidently not around. Nor was there a park ranger in sight. Oh for a cell phone back then!
I generally don't mess with wildlife. Food and self-defense are the only logical reason.
I did hear once though that there is a way to easily tell the difference between a large black bear and a grizzly. You annoy the bear in question. It will chase you and you quickly climb up a predetermined tree. If the bear climbs up right after you, it's a black bear. If it simply shakes the tree until you fall out, it's a grizzly. Anybody wanna give it a try?
And, up here, black bears are known to want to eat you as prey more often than the brown bears do. Brown bears atr generally less p i s s ed off than black bears because they rule the streams and the salmon food source is so abundant. The black bears however, don't get as much chance to feed on the streams because the Big Boys rule.
The Interior grizzlies are generally more p i ss ed off because they live in a harsher climate where food is less abundant. But naturally, I don't rust any of them at any time, and if one charges me, I'm shootin him. I'm not going to wait and see if it's a "bluff charge" or a real charge, I'm shootin him/her...
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J0nny Ling0
Yeah, that's what it was. I was in such "demand", that I had to stop and "do service......" :) :) :)
And in actuality, because this is a topic that is passionate to me, I was just doing a "bump" thing, to bring this topic to the top. I was really hoping for a response to what I posted from Vegan, but, she is either busy, which is certainly understandable, or didn't want to respond.
Man oh man. The animal rights thing just sticks in my craw as one of the most illogical wastes of human energy that I can imagine. Not that I do not care about animals, but, the illogic behind some of these "movements" is unbelieveable. And now, let me tell you a little bit about me, once known as "Nature Boy" in my suburban Washington DC Metro neighborhood in Maryland, just north of the DC line.
When I was in ninth grade, I found three kids who hung a cat from a tree and beat it to death with a baseball bat. They had "tried it" because it had killed a mouse.; I walked into this situation too late (for the cat) and beat the dang s h i t out of those guys because I was incensed with the senselessness of the killing. Out of my mind with passion because of how heinous the scene was. I was like the little boy in the movie "A Chrsitmas Story" who beat up the bad kid with the racoon hat. I was infuriated at the senselessness of it. Also, I came to the defense of a five foot long black snake that was in the process of being killed by some "Baltimorons" (guys from Baltimore) just because the snake was sunning itself on a rock. I hate senseless killing. Unfortunately, these older guys beat the crap out of me and my friends because we (I) waslipping off to them and calling them assholes for killing a perfectly harmless Black Rat Snake.
And so. I love animals. I abhor senseless killing. But, I do believe that taking wild game, and eating domestic stock for food is a good thing. If I had my way, I would eat only organically grown beef, schicken, or pork. It's the way God made things. And so. There is a little bit about me, and what I believe about animals and things to eat.
Senseless killing= BAD!
Killing for food and making that kill as humane as possible= GOOD!
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waysider
Jonny--------Thanks for the biographical info.
I saw on the news recently that the fiasco with fresh spinach may have been caused by fecal matter from wild boars. There have been sighting of wild pigs in virtually all the lower 48 states. Wild geese present a similar problem in that areas that they frequent easily become contaminated with E-coli from their droppings.
Black bears are constantly increasing in numbers and consequently becoming a danger.
It's not too unusual to see coyote roadkill, but recently I saw one stand beside a busy road and wait for traffic to clear, much like you would expect of a domestic dog. I don't know what the answers are but I think we need to continue to search for them. Harp on, fellow bender.
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DrtyDzn
Jerry
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J0nny Ling0
Jerry. You say this as if it is the Truth. Is it The Truth? I don't know bro. It sounds to me that there should be some factual back up to this statement. I think that the reason for the high numbers in the varying herds is because there is pressure from the non hunters to protect all of these beautiful creatures. The question is: Which is The Truth?
I still think that neutering is way too costly to achieve the desired effects.
And Jerry, are you a vegetarian?
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Bluzeman
Here in Ohio the bag limit was raised a number of years ago because of the OVERPOPULATION of deer.
I would like to see some FACTS showing the the population is intentionally kept high JUST for hunting purposes. Facts from somewhere other than a peta related site because they have zero credibility.
Rick
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J0nny Ling0
Yeah, I hear ya Rick. And, good for Ahia. And one of the problems with Ohio, at least in many areas, is that because it has so much farm land with the trees cut, alot of the hunting must be done with shotguns using rifled slugs because a high powered rifle round carries too far. The huiman population is such that the risk of a high powered rifle is too high, and so, one must get much closer to the deer with a shotgun, which gives the deer herd a higher survival rate. At least that was the way it was in New Knoxville.
Evidently you are in favor of banning hunting which you evidently believe is the right thing to do. Well, that is your Belief and not mine. I don't need to eat deer meat, but I like to eat deer meat, just like you may like to eat a vegetarian pizza. And I like the hunt, the stalk, and the satisfaction of a successful hunt. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Don't make your Beliefs a Law keeping me from my Beliefs.
Don't tread on me, I'm an American.
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DrtyDzn
The fact is, early in the 20th century, hunting was banned because we almost wiped out the deer population. Luckily deer recover rather quickly. It seems that now we have a nationwide overpopulation of deer. At this point, killing the deer is the only viable option to control the population size. But in inhabited areas this poses its own problems. I don't want hunting banned altogether, but as a method of control should be restricted to less populated areas. Control of the deer population in inhabited areas could be done through birth control. We could employ both methods.
The clash between civilization and wildlife is only going to continue until we divide up the space into wild reserves and inhabited areas.
Jerry
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VeganXTC
For Bluzeman:
http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/TRMichels002.shtmlhttp://www.huntfairchase.com/docs/f293cc30.doc I wasn't able to open this completely, so I can't quote from it, but you'll be able to see the magazine and issue it came from if you want to run down to the library and look.
For Jonny:
Jonny, people have beliefs about African Americans, and women, and homosexuals, and Jews, and any other minority you can think of, that are horribly prejudiced. Am I wrong because I fight for their (our) best interests even though it may not line up with someone else's beliefs? Is it wrong for me to believe the same life that is given to all mankind and all animals is sacred and worth protecting and fighting for, even if you don't?
And Isaiah 66:3 says killing an ox is like killing a man. But people who do that are choosing their own ways and are happy doing wrong.
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VeganXTC
And Jonny, why are you so opposed to neutering and birth control of wild animals?
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J0nny Ling0
Because there is a movement to ban all hunting and you know it. And a step in the neutering direction is a step toward the banning of hunting. AND, neutering is costly, and, and it is NOT NATURAL. Hunting is NATURAL, and would provide meat and enjoyment for those who like to hunt. Sharpshooters could get permits to hunt the suburban green belts, and money for the government could be made, instead of spent.
And this is why I am opposed to it. You know darn well that a large amount of "animal rightsers" consider hunters murderers. And believe me, I know this because my sister is a card carrying member of PETA, and a very militant Vegan. She considers my late brother and I murderers. I resent that, and I resent anyone using bogus "science" to further their emotion based causes. Give me good, sound, biological science, not "emotionalistic beliefs".
Hunting works, and feeds those who enjoy that kind of food. Alaska's 12,000 wolves can't be wrong.
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RumRunner
You use an '06 or .308 in Alaska Jonny? You can safely ignore the PETA posts - they break more laws than most politicians....
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Bluzeman
Thank you for the links, VeganXTC. However, I only got a blank page on the first one.
In your first post you said:
OK, maybe it's just me but that wording makes it sound like the government has some diabolical hidden agenda going on to keep all that hunting money coming in. :) The quote you provided said:I don't see how this sounds like a bad thing. Sounds to me like they are making sure that the population doesn't get hunted to extinction.
Listen, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't think all hunters are horrible evil people. I don't think you have given that impression. But I have to tell you something....there are bad apples in EVERY bunch. Yes, there are some people who would go out and shoot every animal they can, and leave the carcass's there to rot. Those are not Hunters. Those are @ssholes. :) I think you will find the most hunters will take what the can use, and no more. And NEVER will a REAL hunter shoot an animal just for the sake of shooting it. (Well, 'cept maybe groundhogs.) :) You know, believe it or not, most hunters LOVE animals.
See, you support PETA. That's fine. PETA has some GOOD principles. I won't say they are tottally wrong about everything. But then PETA has their loony's too. How about ALF? I would almost be willing to bet you don't support them, right?
OK, I know we will not agree on the issue of hunting, but I respect your belief anyway!
Peace!
Rick
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J0nny Ling0
Well RumRunner,
I use a .338 Winchester Magnum round (210 grain Nosler partition bullet), in my Ruger M-77 .338 Win Mag rifle. The reason I go so heavy is because I hunt where the big brown bears live also. There are three islands, Admiralty, Baranoff, and Chichagoff, where the brown bears are abundant. Admiralty boasts the largest population of Coastal Brown Bears in the world, and recently "upgraded" it's status from having one brown bear per square mile to two brown bears per square mile. Black bear simply do not live where these monsters live, for, they'll get eaten. On the mainland here in Juneau, we have mostly black bears, but enough brown bears to make me want to carry the big bore rifle.
Amongst those who hunt the big bears, the rule of thumb is that the .338 Win Mag is as small as you want to go, with the .375 H and H round the most common big bear rifle/round. Although many go as large as the .458 magnum. I bought my .338 mag Ruger because I also hunt moose, which is usually in bear country. When moose hunting a couple of years ago up in the Endicott River country (google it if you want), while in a thick stand of alders, I found a big pile of dead salmon all covered up with leaves and sticks scratched over it, as well as a good amount of bear scat and, huge brown bear footprints! Man, my hair stood straight up on the back of my neck and I felt like one of those guys in the movie "Predator", where the Thing was watching from some hidden location! And so, I flicked the safety off and backed out of there and my head was a turret. Apparently brown bears are so fast, that even a big rifle may not help you.
Hunting like that always made me think of the PFAL Class registration card where it says; "Makes Life Meaningful". I don't know, there is just an exhillaration that comes with being in the danger zone like that. If you want to read a cool book, read "Alaska Bear Tales". Because it has story after story where the bears get the humans. And hey, maybe Vegan and Dirty Dozen would like to read where the Animals get in their licks and bites!
Yeah, when I first came to Alaska in 82 after I graduated from the Corps, I read that book and wished I hadn't. For every time I was in the woods, I'd think of those monsters out there. Kind of disrupted my "Believing Images Of Victory" mindset. And for the record, I'd never hunt the brown bear, the meat reportedly is not pleasant at all, and so for me, no reason to hunt them. Now, the black bear is another story, and there are so many here on the mainland they are like rats, and the make great stew meat or sausage. There are too many in my opinion, and they need to be whittled down as well. Problem is, we have animal rights people here who have made it hard to cull out the problem bears. One cop got into big trouble for shooting a bear that had gotten into a ladies house while the lady had left her daughter Home Alone. The daughter was trapped upstairs while this old sow was in their kitchen eating up a big sack of dry dog food. So, the cop investigated the nine year old girl's call and came face to face with the p.o.'d bear in the kitchen and shot it. Should have been the end of the story, but noooo! Makes me ill to see a perfectly good cop get into trouble in such a liberal town like Juneau, just because he tried to "serve and protect". And, a friend of ours was mauled a few years back while walking through a suburban neighborhood here in Juneau in broad daylight, and she alsmost died. The bear chomped her waiste badly and also tore her scalp off and she almost bled to death. Bears walking the neighborhood, not a good thing at all...
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Watered Garden
I think perhaps some of you have misunderstood me. I don't hate deer. My next door neighbor has a feeding stand and I enjoy watching them. I think it is unfortunate that there are so many of them. My only real fear is that someone I love will hit one of them with a vehicle and get injured or killed. Today at 11:55 AM I was driving 55 mph down a fairly busy two-lane state highway, and a 6-8 point buck and two does ran to within 20 feet of the road. My grandson was in the back on the side of the car they would have run into. I just almost stopped in the highway, and they kind of changed their minds and loped away.
However, I do not agree that that deer's life is equally sacred to a human's and as important as a humans. God said He made man in His own image. not deer.
WG
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waysider
Jonny--------Though the black bears tend to be less aggressive than the brown bears(of which the grizzly is a member) they can also be quite dangerous. A sow defending her cubs is not something you would ever want to encounter. In northeast Ohio/northwest PA., local communities have been known to ban bird feeders as the feed attracts black bears. Unlike brown bears, black bears have the ability to climb so that compounds the danger.
WG---------Glad to hear that all were OK in your latest incident.
As to GVT. profits, in many locales, the proceeds from hunting and fishing licenses go into funds that benefit conservation measures and thereby benefit both the wildlife and the human population as well.
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dmiller
Jonny and Brownie in a dispute over a salmon! ;)
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Watered Garden
Once while on a hiking trail, one of the easy ones, in Great Smokey Mts. National park, we came back to the parking area to find a rather large redneck-y and none-too-sober sort of guy in a tussle with a 1-2 year old black bear. He had decided to kick the bear to death for some stupid reason, probably too much alcohol. The bear had calmly, well, not too calmly, put its canine teeth clean through Bubba's $200 leather hiking boots. All of us, however, were rooting for the bear, which eventually broke off the engagement and took off through the woods. My only regret was that mama bear was evidently not around. Nor was there a park ranger in sight. Oh for a cell phone back then!
I generally don't mess with wildlife. Food and self-defense are the only logical reason.
I did hear once though that there is a way to easily tell the difference between a large black bear and a grizzly. You annoy the bear in question. It will chase you and you quickly climb up a predetermined tree. If the bear climbs up right after you, it's a black bear. If it simply shakes the tree until you fall out, it's a grizzly. Anybody wanna give it a try?
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J0nny Ling0
I think I'll.....pass
And, up here, black bears are known to want to eat you as prey more often than the brown bears do. Brown bears atr generally less p i s s ed off than black bears because they rule the streams and the salmon food source is so abundant. The black bears however, don't get as much chance to feed on the streams because the Big Boys rule.
The Interior grizzlies are generally more p i ss ed off because they live in a harsher climate where food is less abundant. But naturally, I don't rust any of them at any time, and if one charges me, I'm shootin him. I'm not going to wait and see if it's a "bluff charge" or a real charge, I'm shootin him/her...
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