My 5 year old got a note sent home with him from Kindergarten a couple of weeks ago for pushing a girl and calling two other girls names. I talked with him about it but he REFUSED to tell me what he called the girls. I grounded him for the night - it was usually our family night (pizza and movies or games) and made him apologize to the girls the next day at school.
When he finally decided to 'fess up as to what he'd called the girls, I had a tough time not laughing...
Are you ready for this?
HORSE POOPIE!
That's right. He pointed a finger at one girl, called her the most vicious thing he could think of, as loudly as possible, and then did the same to the next girl. He says they were complaining that he scribbled and didn't want him at their table. (He scribbles - they were right, but not kind, I guess.)
I told him it wasn't right, just the same. Then snickered about it for the next couple of days. (When he couldn't see me...)
Bottom line - it's all kids' stuff. You can't apply the same rules as you would for adults. Anyone SHOULD be able to see that...
this reminds me a story i heard about a year ago from a teacher.
the teacher teaches grade 1.
This young boy all flustered comes up to the teacher and exclaims, all the while pointing his finger to a young girl in the classroom...
SHE JUST SAID THE "B" WORD.
The teacher, with the most puzzled look on her face, wondered which 'B' word he had heard. So she started to think about the many possibilities that the 'B' word could have at a grade 1 level since she did not want the boy to have to repeat the word. Now the 'B' word at this grade level is usually 'BUM' and not the usual adult terms that we are so unfortunately acquainted with.
But before the teacher could solve the puzzle the boy blurted out
Yes, this was way over the top in the school district and the only thing that was necessary was a talk to the boy.
Name calling is one thing, children do it and they always will. However, slapping, touching, pinching, pushing, shoving, hitting is a totally different thing entirely, even in jest. Children must learn to keep their hands to themselves. That is the problem that has led to violence in teens It is a simple matter of respect. Children need to be taught that a person's body is theirs alone and to keep hands off. There would be less violence if teens would have learn that earlier in life.
So, what happens to the boy now? Will he have to go to court? Is he expelled from school?
This is crazy. I can't imagine what the family of this boy is going through. And what about these school officials? These are teachers and educators that are trained in early childhood behavior. Surely they must realize 5 year olds think differently than 50 year olds. It is so scarey to think about the people who are entrusted with our children's learning for so many years.
It goes before a judge. No judge is going to rule without the recommendation of case-workers [besides not nearly enough government money has been spent]. So he will assign DCF [Department of Children and Families, or whatever that state calls it] to investigate. DCF case-workers will enter the home to 'investigate'.
If the family is nice and willingly opens their home to a complete investigation, ???
Case-workers will take their notes and recommend that the child see a therapist [because they are not qualified to make psychiatric diagnosis, and not nearly enough government money has been spent].
The therapist will ask a bunch of in-appropriate questions, of a nature that the child has never considered, and the child will then begin to focus on those topics. The therapist will label the child as sexually active, possibly sexually-abused.
Which will go back to the case-workers, so a permanently open-file will be started for the family, and on the recommendation of the therapist a second sexual-abuse investigation will be started on the family.
The courts will get all of this back into their lap, and will reason that since the child is now labeled as definitely abused and possibly of a nature to become abusive, he may or may not decide to remove all children from the home. and that everyone needs therapy.
:)
Did I mention that we have spent over eight years as licensed foster-parents? [2 in Ct, 4 in Wa, 4 in Ct again]
I've been struggling to verbalize to my career counselors why I'm sorry I chose Social Work at a field for me and why I wish I'd chosen animal husbandry or something honest.
You just described the reason.
But hey, Animal Psych is a legit thing these days right?
I think teachers who understand young children's development are becoming a thing of the past. Developemental practices in early childhood preschools etc are becoming harder to find. There are preschools in my area that are desk/paper/pencil/worksheet classrooms for three and four year olds, and the local jr. college sends student teachers there.
A couple years a go I had a little boy preschooler who thought it was hilarious to yank down other kids pants. One parent of a little girl nearly pulled her child from the preschool because she was concerned about sexual abuse, wanted the child expelled etc. Really, the little guy wasn't targeting her daughter--he targeted kids with elastic waist pants! We treated the incidents like any other preschool behavior issue(like knocking down someone else's block tower, or taking someones toy, or jumping off the swings, or coloring on the wall, or wiping your nose on your shirt, or...)
I've been struggling to verbalize to my career counselors why I'm sorry I chose Social Work at a field for me and why I wish I'd chosen animal husbandry or something honest.
You just described the reason.
But hey, Animal Psych is a legit thing these days right?
I am so happy that my experiences in foster-care, was able to help you to describe why you find social work to be a poor career choice.
In Ct, we found that the young fresh case-workers, were often put into group homes filled with predators and 'zoo animals' children just to dull the shine in the young case-worker's eyes.
So by the time that they finally got onto the street, they were no longer the idealistic 'save the world' do-gooders, but rather very sour folk.
Indeed, Galen, your post put my many many words into a few shorter ones.
I've been jaded and in realization of the reality that studying Social Work wasn't for me for a long time now but am finishing the degree because I'm so close now. But unless my child is needing food in the pantry I have no interest in working in the system as it sits.
The more I study and see and intern around, the more I know the fit is bad for me and they would never find the fit for them good with me there.
This is so weird, today, earlier today, I was on another board and advising a high school teen [who was saying that she really wants to go into social work] that it is a field which leaves a lot of dis-satisfied workers.
Maybe she should keep looking and find something else to pursue.
Man, Galen and Shellon. Here's my personal story regarding "the system" or at least, the one I am willing to share on a public forum.
My mom, though I love her, was a far far cry from an ideal mother. For the most part, she left the three of us kids to raise ourselves. My dad still talks about the people from the opposite side of town (not the wrong side, just the far side) who would call them to let them know one of us kids was at their end of town. This when I was under the age of 8.
I remember many occassions being left alone at 7 - 10, while she was shopping. I remember her going out (after my parents split) and telling the babysitter to just go ahead and leave at midnight, leaving the three of us home alone for 2 - 4 hours until she returned. I remeber my brother staging a fake b & e one night when we were home alone, in an attempt to get her to come home to us.
By junior high, I was mom. She was at school during the day, and worked overnights in a home, sort of like what our wonderful DMiller does. [Mind you, I don't fault her for wanting to go back to school, it was the abandonment of us kids that I fault her for]. It was my job to look after my sister, cook the meals, make sure the house was clean and the laundry was done. By high school, I would go out with my friends and come home at 3 or 4 in the morning and she never even asked me where I had been or what I had been doing.
But none of that is even the worst of it. The worst of it was the verbal and emotional abuse that was there from the very beginning. I remember as a very small child wanting to take dance lessons (I had friends who were taking tap dancing and ballet). Her response was that I was too fat to ever be graceful. It was downhill from there.
Now, with this background in mind, I tell you that my mother studied psychology and became a social worker. The greatest ironies of all ironies is that she got a job with our community mental health system and her job was to teach people who were on the verge of having the state take their kids away, how to be parents!
Abi, isn't life interesting and wierd the way it unfolds?
My growing up was very good and loving with our parents gone much of the time but a maternal grandmother living in the house I live in now, right behind us or spending the nights.
Supervision was constant and the hand was one of stern loving. I was lucky.
That was mostly why I chose Social Work. It started in 3rd grade when a little boy in my class had shoes in the winter that were full of holes, no socks and he had no coat.
I gave him my new christmas sneakers and my brothers new coat.
The joy in his face that someone cared about him and wanted to do for him is one I shall ever remember. I knew then that I was here to do stuff like that.
Then I read Karen Quinlin's story and got interested in euthanasia issues and the fight her parents were under. I was hooked on the helping profession but didn't know it then.
Now, alot of years later, life has happened and I no longer want to be involved in those kinds of things on a hands in the crud level.
It took me about six years to really understand that sometimes it's better for the child to stay in his home even if it appears miserable and filthy and he's not necessarily safe, cuz it's his home and those are his family.
It took me equally as long to understand that I might have to look at a child who was the victim of violence and his/her family and say these words to them "Your offender has rights too"
I don't have it in me anymore, it is gone.
That's not a bad thing, I don't think. It's better I see that now than secure employment and be more a part of the problem than a solution.
My degree will suit me somewhere and I will find my fit. I'm thankful and I know that I did some good somewhere, as so many do and will.
I'm also fortunate in that my Professors are adjunct so they stand in front of class and tell that day's stories and share and take us on the field and show us the reality of that world, it's not just bookwork.
I finally understand that it's ok to say I can't do it. Not in the realm of CPS or where I have to look in the face of victims and tell them there is nothing we can do for them.
Yeah, Galen, I tell anyone who asks to not do it. That's not a good thing, necessarily, because s/he might be perfect for the job but the burn out rate for case workers is 1.5 years and they need to know that going in.
And this system where change is made AFTER some tragedy. Michigan's recent case of Ricky who was killed and buried by his mom/dad setting off a statewide search and the ensuing trial, etc. NOW they are saying the system failed Ricky and his family and massive changes are in order.
How many more kids before anyone really does anything........it's the universal question. I just don't want to be a part of that anymore.
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ChasUFarley
I saw this on Drudge Report yesterday...
I bet it gets dismissed - how crazy.
My 5 year old got a note sent home with him from Kindergarten a couple of weeks ago for pushing a girl and calling two other girls names. I talked with him about it but he REFUSED to tell me what he called the girls. I grounded him for the night - it was usually our family night (pizza and movies or games) and made him apologize to the girls the next day at school.
When he finally decided to 'fess up as to what he'd called the girls, I had a tough time not laughing...
Are you ready for this?
HORSE POOPIE!
That's right. He pointed a finger at one girl, called her the most vicious thing he could think of, as loudly as possible, and then did the same to the next girl. He says they were complaining that he scribbled and didn't want him at their table. (He scribbles - they were right, but not kind, I guess.)
I told him it wasn't right, just the same. Then snickered about it for the next couple of days. (When he couldn't see me...)
Bottom line - it's all kids' stuff. You can't apply the same rules as you would for adults. Anyone SHOULD be able to see that...
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coolchef
talk about taking a good thing toooooo farrrrr this is utterly rediculous
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A la prochaine
this reminds me a story i heard about a year ago from a teacher.
the teacher teaches grade 1.
This young boy all flustered comes up to the teacher and exclaims, all the while pointing his finger to a young girl in the classroom...
SHE JUST SAID THE "B" WORD.
The teacher, with the most puzzled look on her face, wondered which 'B' word he had heard. So she started to think about the many possibilities that the 'B' word could have at a grade 1 level since she did not want the boy to have to repeat the word. Now the 'B' word at this grade level is usually 'BUM' and not the usual adult terms that we are so unfortunately acquainted with.
But before the teacher could solve the puzzle the boy blurted out
YOU KNOW .... BAGINA...
True story.
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Galen
Well that is just a bunch of horse poopie.
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Seahorse
Yes, this was way over the top in the school district and the only thing that was necessary was a talk to the boy.
Name calling is one thing, children do it and they always will. However, slapping, touching, pinching, pushing, shoving, hitting is a totally different thing entirely, even in jest. Children must learn to keep their hands to themselves. That is the problem that has led to violence in teens It is a simple matter of respect. Children need to be taught that a person's body is theirs alone and to keep hands off. There would be less violence if teens would have learn that earlier in life.
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VeganXTC
So, what happens to the boy now? Will he have to go to court? Is he expelled from school?
This is crazy. I can't imagine what the family of this boy is going through. And what about these school officials? These are teachers and educators that are trained in early childhood behavior. Surely they must realize 5 year olds think differently than 50 year olds. It is so scarey to think about the people who are entrusted with our children's learning for so many years.
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Galen
Chrages are filed.
It goes before a judge. No judge is going to rule without the recommendation of case-workers [besides not nearly enough government money has been spent]. So he will assign DCF [Department of Children and Families, or whatever that state calls it] to investigate. DCF case-workers will enter the home to 'investigate'.
If the family is nice and willingly opens their home to a complete investigation, ???
Case-workers will take their notes and recommend that the child see a therapist [because they are not qualified to make psychiatric diagnosis, and not nearly enough government money has been spent].
The therapist will ask a bunch of in-appropriate questions, of a nature that the child has never considered, and the child will then begin to focus on those topics. The therapist will label the child as sexually active, possibly sexually-abused.
Which will go back to the case-workers, so a permanently open-file will be started for the family, and on the recommendation of the therapist a second sexual-abuse investigation will be started on the family.
The courts will get all of this back into their lap, and will reason that since the child is now labeled as definitely abused and possibly of a nature to become abusive, he may or may not decide to remove all children from the home. and that everyone needs therapy.
:)
Did I mention that we have spent over eight years as licensed foster-parents? [2 in Ct, 4 in Wa, 4 in Ct again]
:)
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Shellon
I've been struggling to verbalize to my career counselors why I'm sorry I chose Social Work at a field for me and why I wish I'd chosen animal husbandry or something honest.
You just described the reason.
But hey, Animal Psych is a legit thing these days right?
Edited by Shellon Fockler-NorthLink to comment
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Bramble
I think teachers who understand young children's development are becoming a thing of the past. Developemental practices in early childhood preschools etc are becoming harder to find. There are preschools in my area that are desk/paper/pencil/worksheet classrooms for three and four year olds, and the local jr. college sends student teachers there.
A couple years a go I had a little boy preschooler who thought it was hilarious to yank down other kids pants. One parent of a little girl nearly pulled her child from the preschool because she was concerned about sexual abuse, wanted the child expelled etc. Really, the little guy wasn't targeting her daughter--he targeted kids with elastic waist pants! We treated the incidents like any other preschool behavior issue(like knocking down someone else's block tower, or taking someones toy, or jumping off the swings, or coloring on the wall, or wiping your nose on your shirt, or...)
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Galen
I am so happy that my experiences in foster-care, was able to help you to describe why you find social work to be a poor career choice.
In Ct, we found that the young fresh case-workers, were often put into group homes filled with predators and 'zoo animals' children just to dull the shine in the young case-worker's eyes.
So by the time that they finally got onto the street, they were no longer the idealistic 'save the world' do-gooders, but rather very sour folk.
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Abigail
It sure reveals the level of insanity our government system has reached.
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Shellon
Indeed, Galen, your post put my many many words into a few shorter ones.
I've been jaded and in realization of the reality that studying Social Work wasn't for me for a long time now but am finishing the degree because I'm so close now. But unless my child is needing food in the pantry I have no interest in working in the system as it sits.
The more I study and see and intern around, the more I know the fit is bad for me and they would never find the fit for them good with me there.
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Galen
Shellon Fockler-North -
LOL
This is so weird, today, earlier today, I was on another board and advising a high school teen [who was saying that she really wants to go into social work] that it is a field which leaves a lot of dis-satisfied workers.
Maybe she should keep looking and find something else to pursue.
:)
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Abigail
Man, Galen and Shellon. Here's my personal story regarding "the system" or at least, the one I am willing to share on a public forum.
My mom, though I love her, was a far far cry from an ideal mother. For the most part, she left the three of us kids to raise ourselves. My dad still talks about the people from the opposite side of town (not the wrong side, just the far side) who would call them to let them know one of us kids was at their end of town. This when I was under the age of 8.
I remember many occassions being left alone at 7 - 10, while she was shopping. I remember her going out (after my parents split) and telling the babysitter to just go ahead and leave at midnight, leaving the three of us home alone for 2 - 4 hours until she returned. I remeber my brother staging a fake b & e one night when we were home alone, in an attempt to get her to come home to us.
By junior high, I was mom. She was at school during the day, and worked overnights in a home, sort of like what our wonderful DMiller does. [Mind you, I don't fault her for wanting to go back to school, it was the abandonment of us kids that I fault her for]. It was my job to look after my sister, cook the meals, make sure the house was clean and the laundry was done. By high school, I would go out with my friends and come home at 3 or 4 in the morning and she never even asked me where I had been or what I had been doing.
But none of that is even the worst of it. The worst of it was the verbal and emotional abuse that was there from the very beginning. I remember as a very small child wanting to take dance lessons (I had friends who were taking tap dancing and ballet). Her response was that I was too fat to ever be graceful. It was downhill from there.
Now, with this background in mind, I tell you that my mother studied psychology and became a social worker. The greatest ironies of all ironies is that she got a job with our community mental health system and her job was to teach people who were on the verge of having the state take their kids away, how to be parents!
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Shellon
Abi, isn't life interesting and wierd the way it unfolds?
My growing up was very good and loving with our parents gone much of the time but a maternal grandmother living in the house I live in now, right behind us or spending the nights.
Supervision was constant and the hand was one of stern loving. I was lucky.
That was mostly why I chose Social Work. It started in 3rd grade when a little boy in my class had shoes in the winter that were full of holes, no socks and he had no coat.
I gave him my new christmas sneakers and my brothers new coat.
The joy in his face that someone cared about him and wanted to do for him is one I shall ever remember. I knew then that I was here to do stuff like that.
Then I read Karen Quinlin's story and got interested in euthanasia issues and the fight her parents were under. I was hooked on the helping profession but didn't know it then.
Now, alot of years later, life has happened and I no longer want to be involved in those kinds of things on a hands in the crud level.
It took me about six years to really understand that sometimes it's better for the child to stay in his home even if it appears miserable and filthy and he's not necessarily safe, cuz it's his home and those are his family.
It took me equally as long to understand that I might have to look at a child who was the victim of violence and his/her family and say these words to them "Your offender has rights too"
I don't have it in me anymore, it is gone.
That's not a bad thing, I don't think. It's better I see that now than secure employment and be more a part of the problem than a solution.
My degree will suit me somewhere and I will find my fit. I'm thankful and I know that I did some good somewhere, as so many do and will.
I'm also fortunate in that my Professors are adjunct so they stand in front of class and tell that day's stories and share and take us on the field and show us the reality of that world, it's not just bookwork.
I finally understand that it's ok to say I can't do it. Not in the realm of CPS or where I have to look in the face of victims and tell them there is nothing we can do for them.
Yeah, Galen, I tell anyone who asks to not do it. That's not a good thing, necessarily, because s/he might be perfect for the job but the burn out rate for case workers is 1.5 years and they need to know that going in.
And this system where change is made AFTER some tragedy. Michigan's recent case of Ricky who was killed and buried by his mom/dad setting off a statewide search and the ensuing trial, etc. NOW they are saying the system failed Ricky and his family and massive changes are in order.
How many more kids before anyone really does anything........it's the universal question. I just don't want to be a part of that anymore.
All blow, no go.
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Eagle
Wow. They just can't think this one thought...
Kids will be kids...
....especially at five years old.
Oh, horse poopie to you, too who don't believe me. I wish that little girl hadn't said "bagina".
I need therapy for life now.
Someone sue the parents. Put that girl in juvy...
Eagle
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