Swingers

[markomalley]

Mark,

I don't see the issue as due to this being a hedonistic society. That is a pretty broad brush. The real reason is that we live in a secular society with a secular government (thank God ). It is a melting pot of ethnicity, culture, theology, philosophy, etc. That is the main reason marriage is a contract and not just a sacrament. Sure anyone can still take vows before their god and not sign any papers, but they wouldn't get the benefits that they would if they did. So it is a contract. Although, two people can still have that contract and still agree that their marriage is a sacrament and act accordingly.

But, since we have this melting pot, we should imbrace what makes it so great, that being accepting people's differences and uniting on our commonality, instead of forcing our views on others. Especially, when our differences are virtually inconsequential in regards to society and our personal beliefs.

Well, think about it for a bit.

Hedonism is the belief system where the highest good is the pursuit of the happiness or pleasure of the self. How much in the societal mores is geared toward the pleasure/happiness of the self?

Hedonism is a particular variant of ego-centrism... the "tendency of people to be concerned above all with their own values, beliefs, and well-being."

Children? A very, VERY common line of reasoning given by single mothers having children out of wedlock and by many couples having children is that a child will bring her/them pleasure.

Marriage? How many marriages break up because of a lack of pleasure in the relationship? Boredom? Differing career goals? It's my understanding that over half the marriages transacted in society today end up in a divorce. Surely not all of those break up because of abuse. Adultery? (that sounds pretty hedonistic to me)

Drugs/Alcohol? Yes, many people self-medicate. But I would submit that the majority of use is for recreation (i.e., pleasure).

Entertainment? What has happened with entertainment in recent decades? TV, DVDs, video games, Cable-on-Demand. How much of the humor today is subtle? How many people read serious literature for pleasure? What about music these days? (Yes, I like Rock as much as anybody else..but...)

It seems to me like we live in a very hedonistic society...a very ego-centric one, as well. Life seems to be geared around personal pleasure.

My point is that if we embrace one sexual lifestyle (that is, on all objective counts, empirically hazardous to the health of the participants) as being acceptable because it is personally pleasurable to the participants, we would be utterly hypocritical if we object to any other sexual lifestyle. Even if it is empirically hazardous to the participants.

Don't get me wrong, I don't endorse either lifestyle. I don't think that this is a surprise to anybody here.

But don't get me wrong in this way either...in a situation where we live in a society such as this, I don't think some fundamentalist idiots can force acceptable mores on people. The effect of this is to drive the behavior across the county line, to drive the behavior underground, and, eventually, to get pushback. I am firmly of the belief that you can't reform somebody from external pressure. The reform must come from within. Otherwise it won't ever work.

[excathedra]

only priests get to have orgies

oh shut up excathedra and go to bed already

[Dot Matrix]

only priests get to have orgies

oh shut up excathedra and go to bed already

With whom?

[Dot Matrix]

Mark

I never heard of this before

Hedonism

[lindyhopper]

Dot, it is the idea that people do things that please them, hedonism is more in reference to physical pleasure. Although, IMO, whether physical pleasure or the pleasure one gets from acts that appeal to their moral standard, it is all born out of selfishness (what feels good to you, what you thing is right, etc).

As to the types of sex that are hazardous to our health, I refer to the American Journal of Medicine which has said that more than half of all people will have an STD/STI in their lifetime. There would also be some debate as to whether doing something that is hazardous to your health makes it intrinsically wrong, but I don't really feel like getting that deep into it just to defend swingers.

[ChasUFarley]

Life is sexually transmitted...

[caribousam]

Swingers

I do not mean cheating. I do not mean an open marriage where you date. I mean where you swap partners or go to a “hang out” and share one another.

I think if you are going to do that then why be married? And I don’t think you can do that and be a practicing Christian. Is it cheating? If both people agree should it be accepted?

Here:

http://www.swinglifestyle.com/

Of course the "shagedelic swinging sixties" followed and once again the term "swinger" took on a new, cartoon-type of character. Towards the end of the 60's, swinger clubs started to form. Publications were printed and different forms of alternative relationships like swinging, polyamory and communal living started to show up.

It wasn't long before the 70's and rumors of "key parties" and "wife swappers" became the common explanation of the "new swingers." Again, sexist overtones dominated the "swinger" scene, the very term "wife swapper" implies that the man owns his wife and can trade her at will for another partner.

The 80's saw a surge of new clubs forming until the AIDS scare forced many swingers underground and many clubs closed or dropped in membership. Eventually, swinging became a lot more open, clubs rebounded and national conventions like Lifestyles in California and Las Vegas gained in popularity and thousands of couples came to meet other open minded couples. "Recreational swinging" became a powerful economic factor, in fact it became an industry. Today, you can find articles on "swinging" in Time magazine, the New York Times, Details, on HBO, MTV, Showtime, VH1 and most national and local newscasts, newspapers and magazines

I'm a man who has been married for 19 years - happily I would say - but there have been times where I thought it would be nice to have close female friends - totally platonic friends - in the idea of - "they are my Christian sisters." The thought and intent I had is I believe well intentioned in the Christian sense. The practicality of doing this is another thing. There is only a certain level of friendship I have been able to achieve with women without getting into what looks like a danger zone. Once or twice I've gotten in some pretty bad pickles when my platonic friendship withj a female started morphing into something else. Thank God that I had some perception about what was going on and the long term implications of my actions. Fortunately I have been able to cut off realtionships which were getting to friendly and keep my marriage alive and healthy. Practically I find it very difficult to impossible to have close friendships with females. Couples befriending couples seems to work out much better. Maybe when I am an old man it will be easier....

[markomalley]

Life is sexually transmitted...

Sounds like an old Bon Jovi song.

I know, wrong thread... :redface2:

[Dot Matrix]

Caribo-

That was a really nice honest post. Sometimes there is a chemistry and we just have to NOT act on it.

[Siouxzahn]

That was a really nice honest post. Sometimes there is a chemistry and we just have to NOT act on it.

Dot I agree wholeheartedly - exactly. Someone we meet might very well fill some inner need we feel, but we don't necessarily have the moral right to act on that at the time.

[Sushi]

Life is sexually transmitted...

I believe the correct phrasing is, Life is a sexually transmitted disease.

[caribousam]

Caribo-

That was a really nice honest post. Sometimes there is a chemistry and we just have to NOT act on it.

hi dot matrix, yep that's kind of the bottom line with a lot of (sinful) tempations in life - there are lots of things that attract us due to some need that we have, but taking the bait leaves us hooked into something that just ain't healthy....

love you !

caribousam

[Dot Matrix]

Sioux and Caribo

Yes!