Yah.... if only someone could wake them up..... and would they want to stay awake...or would they be thankful that someone woke them up...someone they may have devalued or even far worse! Well it's possible.....and they do believe all things are possible. Of Course when one wakes up to the knowledge of the nightmares they caused...it's not so likely one would want to stay awake. That's a difficult place to be for sure. I am not sure what I would do in their shoes. But at least I would do something called for; and at the very least go to the people I hurt and apologize and hope that they would forgive me....God's Love being Uncondition as it is sure would look awesome to me if I were in their shoes!
I Guess..... ..I don't know any human being who has completely unconditional Love; and has it to any degree near or in in the same realm as God's. Everyone's Love; in all the forms of love, that I have ever known has had conditions. some greater...some lesser. Maybe the one's we would consider awakening have consciouses that are seared with a hot iron.... or how could they continue on?????? I guess that is as hard to imagine as being able to live with the knowledge of the cruelties and narsassim within themselves and continue on as nothing happened....Hard to wrap your mind around that, Isn't it!
I think peoples attempt at unconditional love is what attracted me to TWI. Looking back it was the rank & file believers, not the leadership that exhibited this. Some leadership seemed to practice a sly tricky version that seemed kinda' underhanded & slimy.
It's been said (although I can't remember by who) that agape/unconditional love/love is the product of a "higher consciousness" in a person.
Some kind of value has to be placed on attempting to apply that kind of "Love".
Plus, there has to be something to fuel it. Regular Grade fuel doesn't quite rev the engines to that point. Day to day dealings benefit from conditions, agreements, compliance, in fact thrive on those kinds of arrangments.
I've come to the conclusion that unconditional love is born out of relationships.
One example is the love of a mother or father for a child, and the love of a child for a parent.
Regardless of what goes on day to day, "love" is maintained. Acceptance, support, forgivenss, help, cooperation. The relationship is consistent and constant regardless of what goes on and the benefits of the relationship do too, even if in silence, distance or closeness. It's there, spoken and unspoken.
Bible saaaaaaays - God desires to have a real relationship with people as that of a "Father" with His children. A father is always a father, same for the child.
So yeah polar bear - the Way defines it's relationships with it's members, with each other, very carefully. If you do this, are that, produce these things, the relationship is kept. If you don't, it's broken, but completely severed, not in disrepair.
Ring in - the Way's bible teaching and application of "broken fellowship". Briefly, that God's relationship with us remains the same always, but it's we who may or may not maintain our end of the relationship.
(They may say one thing about that but they definitely do another - like, the way past members have been deleted from their past, as if they were never there, never did anything, never graduated a Corps, ever helped build or ever did good things that should be remembered well.)
Where they slip past the target there is that if - a person was to have a consistent relationship with someone else and have "agape" for them they wouldn't change how they act or feel, regardless of what the other person does. They would apply themselves to the relationship in whatever ways appropriate to manifest the solidity of the relationship.
Or - if not, they'd break it off and boot 'em out. That's not agape/unconditional love/love as described in the bible though.
Even though the Way teaches the words, they're out of The Word's fuel it would appear, there's not enough of the real thang to keep the fires stoked.
It's always a challenge, I think as you said RainbowsGirl, and that's where the "higher consciousness" bit comes in - by making that a standard to reach for requires some thought and a search for the resources that would fuel such a thing. It may be a kind of meditation or "selah" deal for us. Considering that path for our lives brings us close to God.
Or as my wife said once about our kids - "I love doing things for them. That's how we get close to them, but doing things for them". :) It's one kind of perspective, anyway.
Similar to what the original poster said, I too found in TWI and in some of the splinter groups that there was no end to others bearing false witness against eachother under the guise of informing the leadership of a "problem" they were having with a houselhold member who needed to be confronted, tagged, and watched-much like the scenario that E. Lynn went thru.
Most of this was born on the wings of competition between believers, a desire to be worshiped as men and elevate oneself above others in status, and a tendency to play favorites and have cliques; a pack like mentality amongst a psuedo christian setting. Definitely a missunderstanding of what love is, of what forgiveness of 70 times 7 is, of what a brother/sister in christ is. All of which taught very bad lessons in how to love and serve one another, and who our Heavenly Father is.
In the end, history will repeat itself if each individual fails to learn the lessons of TWI....of what it is not.
TWI operates "unconditional love" upon the condition that you adhere to the doctrine and prescribed practice of their religion 100%...then again the entire organization and their practices are logical fallacies...and the continual practice of these logical fallacies incapacitates one's ability to love unconditionally...in addition to reason and rational thought.
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RainbowsGirl
Yah.... if only someone could wake them up..... and would they want to stay awake...or would they be thankful that someone woke them up...someone they may have devalued or even far worse! Well it's possible.....and they do believe all things are possible. Of Course when one wakes up to the knowledge of the nightmares they caused...it's not so likely one would want to stay awake. That's a difficult place to be for sure. I am not sure what I would do in their shoes. But at least I would do something called for; and at the very least go to the people I hurt and apologize and hope that they would forgive me....God's Love being Uncondition as it is sure would look awesome to me if I were in their shoes!
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dmiller
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RainbowsGirl
I Guess..... ..I don't know any human being who has completely unconditional Love; and has it to any degree near or in in the same realm as God's. Everyone's Love; in all the forms of love, that I have ever known has had conditions. some greater...some lesser. Maybe the one's we would consider awakening have consciouses that are seared with a hot iron.... or how could they continue on?????? I guess that is as hard to imagine as being able to live with the knowledge of the cruelties and narsassim within themselves and continue on as nothing happened....Hard to wrap your mind around that, Isn't it!
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RainbowsGirl
After dmillers link......Well that is as close as I have ever seen on a human scale. Makes my heart melt.
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Wanderer
I think peoples attempt at unconditional love is what attracted me to TWI. Looking back it was the rank & file believers, not the leadership that exhibited this. Some leadership seemed to practice a sly tricky version that seemed kinda' underhanded & slimy.
I honor those who really tried.
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socks
It's been said (although I can't remember by who) that agape/unconditional love/love is the product of a "higher consciousness" in a person.
Some kind of value has to be placed on attempting to apply that kind of "Love".
Plus, there has to be something to fuel it. Regular Grade fuel doesn't quite rev the engines to that point. Day to day dealings benefit from conditions, agreements, compliance, in fact thrive on those kinds of arrangments.
I've come to the conclusion that unconditional love is born out of relationships.
One example is the love of a mother or father for a child, and the love of a child for a parent.
Regardless of what goes on day to day, "love" is maintained. Acceptance, support, forgivenss, help, cooperation. The relationship is consistent and constant regardless of what goes on and the benefits of the relationship do too, even if in silence, distance or closeness. It's there, spoken and unspoken.
Bible saaaaaaays - God desires to have a real relationship with people as that of a "Father" with His children. A father is always a father, same for the child.
So yeah polar bear - the Way defines it's relationships with it's members, with each other, very carefully. If you do this, are that, produce these things, the relationship is kept. If you don't, it's broken, but completely severed, not in disrepair.
Ring in - the Way's bible teaching and application of "broken fellowship". Briefly, that God's relationship with us remains the same always, but it's we who may or may not maintain our end of the relationship.
(They may say one thing about that but they definitely do another - like, the way past members have been deleted from their past, as if they were never there, never did anything, never graduated a Corps, ever helped build or ever did good things that should be remembered well.)
Where they slip past the target there is that if - a person was to have a consistent relationship with someone else and have "agape" for them they wouldn't change how they act or feel, regardless of what the other person does. They would apply themselves to the relationship in whatever ways appropriate to manifest the solidity of the relationship.
Or - if not, they'd break it off and boot 'em out. That's not agape/unconditional love/love as described in the bible though.
Even though the Way teaches the words, they're out of The Word's fuel it would appear, there's not enough of the real thang to keep the fires stoked.
It's always a challenge, I think as you said RainbowsGirl, and that's where the "higher consciousness" bit comes in - by making that a standard to reach for requires some thought and a search for the resources that would fuel such a thing. It may be a kind of meditation or "selah" deal for us. Considering that path for our lives brings us close to God.
Or as my wife said once about our kids - "I love doing things for them. That's how we get close to them, but doing things for them". :) It's one kind of perspective, anyway.
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now I see
Similar to what the original poster said, I too found in TWI and in some of the splinter groups that there was no end to others bearing false witness against eachother under the guise of informing the leadership of a "problem" they were having with a houselhold member who needed to be confronted, tagged, and watched-much like the scenario that E. Lynn went thru.
Most of this was born on the wings of competition between believers, a desire to be worshiped as men and elevate oneself above others in status, and a tendency to play favorites and have cliques; a pack like mentality amongst a psuedo christian setting. Definitely a missunderstanding of what love is, of what forgiveness of 70 times 7 is, of what a brother/sister in christ is. All of which taught very bad lessons in how to love and serve one another, and who our Heavenly Father is.
In the end, history will repeat itself if each individual fails to learn the lessons of TWI....of what it is not.
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Calflor
TWI operates "unconditional love" upon the condition that you adhere to the doctrine and prescribed practice of their religion 100%...then again the entire organization and their practices are logical fallacies...and the continual practice of these logical fallacies incapacitates one's ability to love unconditionally...in addition to reason and rational thought.
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