I took the new 2005 class and heres my critcism

[Goey]

Greetings to you in the name of Jesus Christ my lord.

Greetings you also.

I have recently taken the Way International's new foundational class entitled, "The way of abundance and power". If it were available our father in the word, Dr Victor Paul Wierwille would have turned over in his grave.

While a some folks may still refer to VPW as thier "father in the word" this glorification of VPW is certainly not a notion shared by most folks here. I would suggest that careful study along with objective and critical thinking will show that VPW is no more our "father in the word" than J.E. Stiles or B.G. Leonard or any other of the folks that VPW got his material from.

I was born again of God's spirit October, 10th 1979,spoke in tongues 3 months later, took Power for Abundant living in 1983, and was in the way corps, but failed to graduate. Then left the Way, but failed to reinstate my fellowship with God.

Recently, as I was watching a minister on TV, it was clear that God was calling me back home, then in February I contacted the Way thinking that it was home to Gods people, I was wrong. Although there may be some there who truly love God and His word but are still stifled from speaking up when the spirit of God in them yells at them to do the right thing!

My web search turned up the grease spot, and I thought I'd add a bit.

For those of us operating the 9 manifestations of the spirit it is clear as a bell how headquarters has turned from the living God to idols and opened the door for devil spirits to enter in and take control.

IMO, the door was opened before you ever took PFAL, when VPW was still at the helm when hundreds if not thousands of glassy-eyed followers put the good Doc up on a spirital pedestal that he did not deserve. It doesn't take "manefsatations" to figure out that TWI is and was a corrupt and spiritually bankrupt organization. It just takes bit of common sense and the willingness to take the good doc of his pedestal and hear the testimony of countless folks who actually knew the man.

During the class which I graduated I almost got up and walked out when David Chavisty began to teach at the 8th session, but I decided to give the people there the benefit of the doubt and sit through the 8th-12th sessions by basically ignoring the teaching and reading my Bible.

I prayed to God to continue to protect me from the doctrines of devils and open my eyes to see the picture being presented, and He did.

During my 3 years in the way corps, I was out of fellowship with God, and none of my leaders had the ability to get me back there!

Reverend M$rt$dale got busted screwing other women a number of years ago, and the media got wind of the last one when he was still president and threatened to expose the Way as a fake. The Way then "paid off" the people suing them for defamation of character, in order to keep the sin of Cr$g quiet. This is bribery in the basic biblical sense and opens the door for the host of heaven to enter in to rack and ruin Gods precious people.

The whole notion of the "state" of a person being either "in fellowship" or "out of fellowship" is a dubious doctrine conceived by, and pretty much unique to TWI. IMO it was a contrived tool used by TWI to explain away why bad things happen to good folks and to explain away the mass failures with healings and such. Oh, he must have been "out of fellowship !". A certain way to get "out of fellowship" back in the early days was to challenge or disagree with VPW. (That could make you possessed as well doncha know.)

My fellowship coordinator has definite spiritual problems and wants to control my life free time and try to distract me with service to the ministry instead of the full sharing mentioned in acts and Ephesians, and I don't want to continue with these spiritual whores.

Also, ironically, Dr. Wierwilles book, "Power for Abundant Living " is no longer available at the WAY and they left out 4 crucified in the class; amongst many other things. They breezed through the high points of Dr.s class like they weren't important anymore, that their new research is the REAL truth!

IMO, VPW's "four crucified", taken from Bullinger is seriously flawed. It gets allos and heteros wrong, which can be seen with a basic independant and objective study of the Greek. Even if it was right, whether or not there were 2 or 4 crucified, is certainly not a critical Christian doctrine and affects our faith and practice about as much as whether or not Adam had a navel. I will grant that VPW pitched it well - he was very convincing to the unlearned.

They cut the time from the 68 class of 36 hours down to 24 hours using scripture of course for the change, the good old brevity of time reason, lol. And the reason or as I put it "the excuse to slap God and his son Jesus Christ in the face", is that they have "new research"!!!! You tell me, what is wrong with Dr. Wierwilles class of 1967-68? Yup you tell me, not just whine about how Dr. got his information.

If someone told you, would you actually listen objectively? Regardless of the source of VPW's information, both the PFAL class and the PFAL books are loaded with errors. I think there is a thread here somewhere that documents many of these errors. You should check it out.

A term, which is used very very frequently in the new class, is "tremendous"

Here's what my 1936 thesaurus defines "tremendous" as-fearful, dreadful, terrible, See fear.(very very interesting)

Fear-timidity, mistrust, suspicion, apprehesion, dread, terror, trepidation, bullying, terrorism...you get the point.

My 1996 Webster's thesaurus on tremendous is quite different; hence the way Satan has changed language to further promote his control over Gods people.

96 thesaurus on tremendous-Extremely large, huge, large, or vast slang wonderful.

Wonderful-extraordinary, marvelous, astonishing, amazing, remarkable, astounding.

You tell me, why should it be so extraordinary the God as our Father would want to communicate with us and bless us with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ? Or that we can heal people like the lame man in Acts 3? If we think that these are things that only the men of God of old did and it is not available because it is so "tremendous", then we are indeed tying Gods hands and the work of his son Jesus Christ was for naught.

I think this is a bit of a leap in logic on your part. Words change meanings over time. It is a normal process of language and probably not relevant or attributable to Satan. TWI has always had cliches, overused ( and mostly meaningless) sayings and terms , usually stuff that VPW or some other "great leader" said that was mimicked or parroted by thier psycophants. I still get a slight urge to smack someone if they say "Bless You". In any case, the overuse of the word "tremendous" is just an example of the progression of the "Wayspeak" that began in the 60's.

BUT, this is not the case my brothers and sisters, I encourage you to speak in tongue much much more, for Paul stated in I Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak in tongues more than ye all.

Empirically, I do not see where a Christian that speaks in tongues has any spiritual advantage over one that doesn't. Some of the the more baser azzes I ever met were in TWI and they "spoke in tounges much".

And as you all know it was he who received the revelation of the great mystery, hmmmm might there be a key here?????

God magnified His word above all His name, not the way's collaterals!

Read the book! Read the book! Read the book!

Agreed. But, let me add this. Read the Book (Bible) to hear what it says, and not for the purpose of confirming the teaching and doctrines of our favorite Bible teacher.

Do you remember the home study lessons from the video class of 1967-68?

The first 2 home study sessions were reading and rereading Ephesians, and Ephesians 6:10-24 session3. Session 4 was Romans chapter 12. 5-9 on the power for abundant living book. 10-13 on receiving the holy spirit today.

Like I stated above,the book "POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING" IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THE WAY!!!!! WHY?????

Now really think about this question, dont just put that same old wall up, but really think, think why they got rid of the book which teaches a person the basic truths of how to unlock the WOG? Like the chuch lady from snl, "could it be Satan"?

Or maybe it could be God? While PFAL has some good stuff in it, there are some serious and fatal flaws in it -- some so serious that as a doctrinal system it fails miserably - a cistern that cannot hold water. It only takes a small hole to drain a cistern. It is a case where a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Oh, and they went through all of the publications and "updated them", how they have done this I haven't dug into yet, it should be an interesting venture.

Oh, lets not leave out the ego the all wonder ful ego promoted by the class, I actually saw a 12 year old boy thrive on pride and admiration at the 12th session, and they tried to gimme soome acknowledgement, but I refuse to accomidate their foolish desires. God who looks at the heart will reward those who are meek to Him and His word.

The God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ honors believing, and I believe.

Make no mistake about it! I am what I am, I have what I have and I will be what I will be NOT by what I have done or will do, but by what Jesus did for me by his torture and death, by the ultimate price that he paid.

He loved life and really didn't want to go through what he did.

But God raised him from the dead!

We have been given this awesome time of the ages to live in, the age of grace, but the New Testament in printed form before us, and because of Dr. wierwille, the understanding of the powerful word of God.

IMO, because of their uquestioned adherence to the basic teachings of VPW, Martindale and TWI , many folks are missing the point of Christiany in general. More concerned with "power" (manifestations, et al) than with love and kindness. More concerned with what God can do for them than what they can do for others. Folks afraid to commune or fellowship with the "absent" Jesus, substituting instead an unduly gorified man or a "ministry" as the effective head of the church. Folks not unlike the priest and the Levite, who walked past the man beaten by robbers offering him no physical help. Psuedo-intellectuals that choose to glorifiy the ink and paper and the folks that claim to know the keys to understanding it, rather than putting into practice the ideas and concepts it holds.

Continue to read the book. Continue to read the book. Continue to read the book. Continue to read the book.

And speak in tongues!And speak in tongues!And speak in tongues!And speak in tongues!And speak in tongues!

What about 1 Cor 13? What about love? Doesn't 1 Cor 13 teach that we should seek love first?

I still read my Bible

Edited April 26, 2007 by Goey

[Eyesopen]

OMG....Thanks Socks....that was pure torture!!!! I can't believe that I actually listened to the whole thing!! I couldn't watch it...But I heard the whole drawn out, thing....aaaarrrrrggggg...I think I'm gonna need resurrecting soon....is somebody here in fellowship?

[T-Bone]

...I have recently taken the Way International's new foundational class entitled, "The way of abundance and power". If it were available our father in the word, Dr Victor Paul Wierwille would have turned over in his grave...

...They cut the time from the 68 class of 36 hours down to 24 hours using scripture of course for the change, the good old brevity of time reason, lol. And the reason or as I put it "the excuse to slap God and his son Jesus Christ in the face", is that they have "new research"!!!! You tell me, what is wrong with Dr. Wierwilles class of 1967-68? Yup you tell me, not just whine about how Dr. got his information...

...Continue to read the book. Continue to read the book. Continue to read the book. Continue to read the book...

Welcome to GSC, Preacher! Your post certainly does your name justice. I don't want to spoil your initial experience with GSC – but since you come on so strong I would like to give you some honest feedback.

I no longer consider VPW my father in the Word – personally I don't think you can get farther from the Word than the screwy theology he twisted out of it…In my opinion, more than any doctrinal error - what really must break God's heart is anytime Vicious Predatory Wolves attack what the Father and Son hold near and dear - molesting His daughters! "…Something must be wrong with our scale of values…"

I'm not one to whine over how VPW got his information. The fact that he was a bold-faced plagiarist is a whole other subject! The way he pieced together his eclectic theology should be a prime concern to any serious Bible student. His clumsy misuse of Scripture interpretation principles should have been a tip off – not only showing all this stuff didn't originate with him – but more importantly that he did not "master" them. Although he did "make it his own" by claiming God taught him the Word like it hadn't been known for centuries.

Case in point: In PFAL, before VPW teaches the keys to the Word's interpretation, he sets the stage by referring to

II Peter 1:20, 21 KJV

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

VPW said verse 20 means no one is allowed to privately interpret the Bible and from that reasons there is no interpretation or the Bible must interpret itself – hence the need for the keys to the Word's interpretation. Even if the reader would miss a little preposition like the "of" in the verse "of any private interpretation" [which indicates origin or source] it becomes obvious if you follow the line of thought in verse 21 – where it describes the origin of Scripture two other ways – not coming by the will of man, holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. So even before "the teacher" begins to show students the keys to the Word's interpretation – he himself ignores the information 1. in the verse and 2. in the context.

May I suggest you lay aside TWI-mindset for a few months – and just read the Bible. Perhaps one without TWI notes, maybe even try a few other versions besides KJV.

Edited April 26, 2007 by T-Bone

[socks]

Ooooops - I didn't mention that THIS STUFF should only be viewed in a Fully Paid environment of Prevailing Instructors and Grads who can assist you in fully enjoying it.

[socks]

Sorry. I need to contribute something worthwhile here.

The 24 hours down from 36 - that's a good thing. 36 hours is too long.

4 Crucified - interesting discussion point in PFAL, but today I'd say a minor doctrinal concern. Illustrating the accuracy of the Word, it's marginal as it's not fully provable. Really, it's not. Take my word for it, I read it on GS. Okay, seriously, it was included to illustrate a research principle being taught in the class, it wasn't a point of doctrine, like say speaking in tongues or sonship rights. One free ride on THIS STUFF

to anyone who remembers what point it was illustrating. (no cheating, only watch THIS STUFF if you know! )

What oldiesman said - ?

What's taught/not taught now? Is the devil still a lesbian? I heard there was stuf about outer space, methane or ozone or ice crystals or something. Are they still in it?

Is it better than Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth"? Will it scare me?

Edited April 26, 2007 by socks

[dmiller]

Hey Socks -- With ALL due respect ---- I'D RATHER LISTEN TO THIS STUFF INSTEAD.

I think the second tune (entitled I Know You're Married, But I Love You Still),

might be a more appropriate one to be sung from the stage I saw mentioned in your clip.

;)

Edited April 26, 2007 by dmiller

[TheInvisibleDan]

Goey wrote:

TWI has always had cliches, overused ( and mostly meaningless) sayings and terms , usually stuff that VPW or some other "great leader" said that was mimicked or parroted by thier psycophants. I still get a slight urge to smack someone if they say "Bless You". In any case, the overuse of the word "tremendous" is just an example of the progression of the "Wayspeak" that began in the 60's.

Those old Wierwillian gangster-isms were really tremendous.

(see?)

Dat's riiight....

[Belle]

:eusa_clap:

Goey, it's so good to "read" you! :)

You said everything I was thinking of posting while reading this thread. Excellent, and better than I could have put it.