Let’s say I’m a great witness and I run a class of 10 every month. That’s $15 each month. May not be much to you, Jeanyouare, but that’s my milk budget and to me that’s significant.
I don’t know that I know a better way off the top of my head, but this smells like a scam to me. It doesn’t sound at all Christlike to me.
For one thing, the percentage we were talking about was in regard to the ABS, not the charge for taking the class. For another the usual charge for taking the class was $25.00, not $100.00, and that covered materials for the class, refreshments, and other extraneous expenses involved in the class. I really like the idea that at least 85% of the ABS stays right in the area where it was generated and can be used for needs in that area, rather than what was the case in TWI; where ALL the ABS went to headquarters and very little of it ever found it's way back. As I've said before, the ABS in our area has been used to help various people who for one reason or another found themselves under financial pressure. It sounds pretty Christlike to me. In the gospels, it refers to Judas as being the treasurer (or keeper of the bag) for the group but it never (as far as I know) says how that money was generated, so even Christ carried money around for some purpose apparently. At least my ABS isn't currently ending up in TWI's coffers of millions.
Then again thats about three or four maybe good cups of coffee at a coffee shop, not exactly anything one could live on now is it? It is a small price to pay which by the way goes mostly for costs in developing more classes and materials. Life costs money ...... No ones making anybody sign on it's there if one wants it not if you don't. Check out licence agreements in the real world if you want to see a real scam.
Agreed Bow. They develop a product and convince people not only that they need it, but even get these people to convince OTHER people that they need it as well.
They then are able to convince people that God needs them to give a percentage of their money to these people for the rest of their lives in order to prosper....
God is the pretty shiny wrapper that they place around their product to make it and themselves look legitimate.
Having been scammed once, people don`t want to have to admit that it happened again.
You'd be better off being scammed by a real estate scheme.. at least you'd have a chance of getting some of the money back.
But I think money is the least of the problems here.
People who HONESTLY think a drambuie guzzling, plagiarizing, womanaizing, serial rapist and abuser could POSSIBLY be a MAN OF GOD.. or those who followed in his ways..
even when confronted with first hand evidence and testimony..
I think they were scammed out of a lot more than JUST money.
No, he doesn't. God is fully capable of recompensing to me any money I was 'scammed' out of by TWI or anyone else. If the people at TWI misused the money I freely gave that is their problem, not mine and very likely God will hold them accountable. Right now I have no reason to think that the group I am involved with is misusing my gifts in any way, and no one has suggested that it is incumbent on me to give ANYTHING nor have I myself ever taken it upon myself to suggest to anyone that it is incumbent upon them to give ANYTHING. The projects that I know my gifts have been used for have my full support, not that is really any of anyone's business to criticize. What does any of the money that you donate get used for, or is the reality that you no longer give anything?
Agreed Bow. They develop a product and convince people not only that they need it, but even get these people to convince OTHER people that they need it as well.
Actually that is part right they develop a product. but it is what it is a product on the free market take it or leave it either way your choice! Need it? I doubt it..... if we never had another class, book or tape there is a life of study in what is already there. That said classes do offer a perspective perhaps one that has not been considered ,perhaps not. Considering others viewpoints or insight can be beneficial and classes are one way to do that, be it a Bible class or a gun safety class.
They then are able to convince people that God needs them to give a percentage of their money to these people for the rest of their lives in order to prosper....
An assumption...... I can't recall anyone doing any thing remotely like this and I have attended their meetings and classes at times One does wonder how someone that has not, somehow seems to know how this group functions?
God is the pretty shiny wrapper that they place around their product to make it and themselves look legitimate.
Having been scammed once, people don't want to have to admit that it happened again.
Actually God is the purpose not the wrapper around another product. The point of there being a product as you refer to it, is to develop your understanding and relationship with Him by growing in your understanding of a subject. Much the same way we become better humans and better at serving mankind by developing ourselves through educational classes. Which by the way most people charge for.
No, he doesn't. God is fully capable of recompensing to me any money I was 'scammed' out of by TWI or anyone else. If the people at TWI misused the money I freely gave that is their problem, not mine and very likely God will hold them accountable. Right now I have no reason to think that the group I am involved with is misusing my gifts in any way, and no one has suggested that it is incumbent on me to give ANYTHING nor have I myself ever taken it upon myself to suggest to anyone that it is incumbent upon them to give ANYTHING. The projects that I know my gifts have been used for have my full support, not that is really any of anyone's business to criticize. What does any of the money that you donate get used for, or is the reality that you no longer give anything?
My my, Jeaniam - are you aware that this is a DISCUSSION board? This isn't everybody says what they think and Jeaniam comes in and tells us what's a valid point - who are YOU that you think you should come in here like this? That's very rude, not to mention insulting and annoying. Stop it!
Jean - your opinion is ONLY THAT - YOUR OPINION. Your opinion is as valuable as mine, Hamm's, rascal's, all of ours - NO MORE and NO LESS.
I was hoping to get into this discussion, but as in other threads I've noticed, when you're involved it turns into personal insults and fantasies of your superiority over whomever you're trying to correct.
I've been discussing controversial subjects with my good friend rascal and others for years on this board and never do we tell each other "You're wrong" or "Hamm's point isn't valid." We can disagree without insulting each other. You might want to try it. It's most satisfying and really a pleasant way to learn things we don't already know.
And hey Jean, one last thing - God really does like all of us as much as he does you.
Actually God is the purpose not the wrapper around another product. The point of there being a product as you refer to it, is to develop your understanding and relationship with Him by growing in your understanding of a subject. Much the same way we become better humans and better at serving mankind by developing ourselves through educational classes. Which by the way most people charge for.
Whitedove - Thanks for your great example of how to disagree without insulting the writer and give the reader thoughts to ponder, rather than the sting of those insults another poster is zinging out...
Well seeing as MY money WAS used to fund abortions, shopping sprees, exotic vacations..buy the motor coach that women were raped on, no doubt even the very drugs that were slipped in the drinks......I guess that it DOES matter where my money is spent and how it is used.
My money allowed evil men to sate their lusts of their bellies. My money allowed them to buy property and put forth a facade of respectability. Without our money to facilliate their activities...evil could not have thrived.
I`d say that IS my business.
That people are still being decieved and used is my business as well.
I wonder if you would say the same thing about the money the christians gave to THEIR church for God`s use in Jones group..some of which bought the cyanide that was force fed to the children, that bought the bullets and guns that assasinated the government officials who were trying to get people out....
I think that it is our responsibility to ensure that our money is not used to promote evil....shrug
Well seeing as MY money WAS used to fund abortions, shopping sprees, exotic vacations..buy the motor coach that women were raped on, no doubt even the very drugs that were slipped in the drinks......I guess that it DOES matter where my money is spent and how it is used.
My money allowed evil men to sate their lusts of their bellies. My money allowed them to buy property and put forth a facade of respectability. Without our money to facilliate their activities...evil could not have thrived.
I`d say that IS my business.
That people are still being decieved and used is my business as well.
I wonder if you would say the same thing about the money the christians gave to THEIR church for God`s use in Jones group..some of which bought the cyanide that was force fed to the children, that bought the bullets and guns that assasinated the government officials who were trying to get people out....
I think that it is our responsibility to ensure that our money is not used to promote evil....shrug
Well, I don't think I'm being deceived or used and as far as I know my money is not being used to promote evil. Unforunately you are not only concerned with where YOUR money is being used; you have taken upon yourself the responsibility to decide how other people's money is being used, and apparently decide that it's being used for evil when you have no idea if that is true or not. Maybe you should confine yourself to finding out how your donations are being used (if there are any). And it is not your business when I didn't ask for your opinion (and to be perfectly honest, don't really value it).
No, he doesn't. God is fully capable of recompensing to me any money I was 'scammed' out of by TWI or anyone else. If the people at TWI misused the money I freely gave that is their problem, not mine and very likely God will hold them accountable. Right now I have no reason to think that the group I am involved with is misusing my gifts in any way, and no one has suggested that it is incumbent on me to give ANYTHING nor have I myself ever taken it upon myself to suggest to anyone that it is incumbent upon them to give ANYTHING. The projects that I know my gifts have been used for have my full support, not that is really any of anyone's business to criticize. What does any of the money that you donate get used for, or is the reality that you no longer give anything?
I really wasn't talking about money. The old pfal signup cliche may apply here, "well, money can replaced.."
This is what I was talking about:
eople who HONESTLY think a drambuie guzzling, plagiarizing, womanaizing, serial rapist and abuser could POSSIBLY be a MAN OF GOD.. or those who followed in his ways..
even when confronted with first hand evidence and testimony..
I think they were scammed out of a lot more than JUST money.
Hearing the word "doctor" attached to vic's name, or "reverand" to those who followed or enabled his vile lifestyle, turns my stomach.
I think anybody who BLINDLY, without DEMANDING accountability, hands these sob's their hard earned cash, even five dollars a stinking MONTH..
I better not say.
I'll talk about the money.
I'd rather give the money to the government.
I'd rather give it to PETA, or Greenpeace.
I'd rather contribute to a GAY RIGHTS cause.. there would be MORE ACCOUNTABILITY. They would probably do MORE GOOD with the money..
My my, Jeaniam - are you aware that this is a DISCUSSION board? This isn't everybody says what they think and Jeaniam comes in and tells us what's a valid point - who are YOU that you think you should come in here like this? That's very rude, not to mention insulting and annoying. Stop it!
Jean - your opinion is ONLY THAT - YOUR OPINION. Your opinion is as valuable as mine, Hamm's, rascal's, all of ours - NO MORE and NO LESS.
I was hoping to get into this discussion, but as in other threads I've noticed, when you're involved it turns into personal insults and fantasies of your superiority over whomever you're trying to correct.
I've been discussing controversial subjects with my good friend rascal and others for years on this board and never do we tell each other "You're wrong" or "Hamm's point isn't valid." We can disagree without insulting each other. You might want to try it. It's most satisfying and really a pleasant way to learn things we don't already know.
And hey Jean, one last thing - God really does like all of us as much as he does you.
Whitedove - Thanks for your great example of how to disagree without insulting the writer and give the reader thoughts to ponder, rather than the sting of those insults another poster is zinging out...
A DISCUSSION??? It's a discussion where you're expected to agree with the majority viewpoint and the majority viewpoint is 'we hate TWI and everything it stands for and ever stood for' and if you dare to disagree with that, you get hounded and occasionally told that you're not welcome. This place is just about as arbitrary and legalistic as TWI ever was on its worst day. If I don't have any interest in what you're trying to 'teach' me, I will soon find myself in the position of having it rammed down my throat whether I want it or not. But if you're "good friends" with Rascal that explains a lot. And BTW, God really loves all of you as much as He does me; "like", well, that might be a different matter.
I really wasn't talking about money. The old pfal signup cliche may apply here, "well, money can replaced.."
This is what I was talking about:
Hearing the word "doctor" attached to vic's name, or "reverand" to those who followed or enabled his vile lifestyle, turns my stomach.
I think anybody who BLINDLY, without DEMANDING accountability, hands these sob's their hard earned cash, even five dollars a stinking MONTH..
I better not say.
I'll talk about the money.
I'd rather give the money to the government.
I'd rather give it to PETA, or Greenpeace.
I'd rather contribute to a GAY RIGHTS cause.. there would be MORE ACCOUNTABILITY. They would probably do MORE GOOD with the money..
Well, that is your choice, just as where I choose to contribute my money is my choice and I don't have to justify it to you or anyone else.
Well duh....nobody THINKS that they are being decieved...that is why it is called deception...
and as far as I know my money is not being used to promote evil.
Ahhh there is the key.....However, the man that is currently in cgarge of your group was one of the great facillitators of evil...somehow I doubt that his motives have become altruistic in the ensuing years....
Unforunately you are not only concerned with where YOUR money is being used;
It`s called accountability jean.
you have taken upon yourself the responsibility to decide how other people's money is being used, and apparently decide that it's being used for evil when you have no idea if that is true or not.
Those are your words not what I said at all
Maybe you should confine yourself to finding out how your donations are being used (if there are any).
If there is any??? Was that supposed to be an insult?? No doubt you wish that I would so that nobody holds the people that are decieving accountible....
And it is not your business when I didn't ask for your opinion (and to be perfectly honest, don't really value it).
Lol...that is ok, I don`t need your approval or value, like Bow said this is a discussion board where my opinion, as well as hamms , even yours is of value.
I think that it is our responsibility to ensure that our money is not used to promote evil....shrug
I'd agree with that Rascal as far as donations they should be a proper steward of peoples gifts, although in a practical sense it may be hard to do unless you sit on a financial board for the group. I've yet to find many groups where money does not find its way to other places.
As far a classes and other products they are a free market product you buy it or not . Much like a bottle of water I don't get to control the money once I buy it ,the corporation does. As a consumer if I don't like what the corporation does then I can choose to buy another brand of water. But I don't fault the company for charging for their product, life is not free.
And I'll add once again learning is not dependent on the instructors lifestyle. If one were to need info on how to repair a chainsaw, the best thing to do is find the best source to do so. You learn because they can teach you not because they fit your idea of morality. I know very little of my school teachers lifestyle's but what they taught me is still none the less true. I do know one who eventually was sent away for his lifestyle choice but none the less the math he taught still is true and still works regardless.
Ahhh there is the key.....However, the man that is currently in cgarge of your group was one of the great facillitators of evil...somehow I doubt that his motives have become altruistic in the ensuing years....
If there is any??? Was that supposed to be an insult?? No doubt you wish that I would so that nobody holds the people that are decieving accountible....
That's the real problem, that you and others like you think that your opinion is worth more than God's. You don't know what his current motives are, but you're prepared to sit in judgement anyway. And BTW how does spewing garbage behind someone's back fall into the category of holding THEM accountable? Especially when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Behind someones back??? This is an open forum, any could be here if they chose....lol
No doubt if they didn`t DO these horrible things....things that prove them untrustworthey to be stewards of ANYTHING.....then there would be nothing to talk about I guess
We are examining the fruit THEY manifest in order to determine whether it is spiritual or fleshly. ALL things that are encouraged scripturally.
I am sorry that the leaders of so many of these offshoots do not meet the scriptural criteria for one who claims to be of the spirit....shrug.
I think that money sent to them is fascilitating further evil and hurt to be perpetrated on innocent people.
It may be a fine line of demarcation here, but quite a few of these groups ask for "donations" instead of "charging" for their classes.
:)
But that is a good assessment. I just won't pay anymore for warmed over, half eaten, regurgitated pfal material. If it was so great the first time around, why do I need to buy it all over again? If it is so great, why is it that the only people who seem to see the greatness of it are these grifters who insist on continuing vic's legacy?
Oh yes.. the one guy who charges for rights to run his class.. same guy who had a REAL problem with a guy who wrote a paper claiming adultery was sin..
and God is going to give him revelation? New light?
people trust this guy to "rightly divide" the word?
...I just won't pay anymore for warmed over, half eaten, regurgitated pfal material. If it was so great the first time around, why do I need to buy it all over again? If it is so great, why is it that the only people who seem to see the greatness of it are these grifters who insist on continuing vic's legacy?
I feel EXACTLY like that, Mr. Squirrel... If I am going to start attending another group, then it will be ANOTHER group. Something at the base of the doctrine of twi was wrong, or it wouldn't have produced the fruit it did through the abuse of its followers. Why would I want to attend somewhere that was based on the same doctrines?
If the only thing different than twi is a few small details and the fact that they hate twi as it is today, it just doesn't make sense to head in that direction... Seems like that ministry would mainly be based on hatred for one thing or the other.
Just thinking out loud, here... I figure if you are happy where you are, then stick with it - it must be meeting some need for you.
Yep.. some need I guess. I remember when I left der vey, an old "leader" said, "well, where ya gonna go? Who ya gonna fellowship with? what ya gonna doooo.."
As if my very identity would simply dissolve without the influence of der vey..
I really think that some have the opinion that the whole world is going to stop if they abandon the old religion.
If I had that kind of "need", I'd get it taken care of on the cheap. Just buy the materials from the Belezian people, cram it in my brain as many times as I desired.. heck, you can even buy the video of at least one of the advanced classes.. plus disks with every sunday night service in existence.
I think (at least for now) the best thing I can do for myself is spend some serious time developing who I am and my own relationship with God - not the pre-packaged "relationship" any religion says that I "should" have. God is pretty big, I think He has room for an individual daughter like me who doesn't fit into the regular mold.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
6
19
11
6
Popular Days
May 18
32
May 12
10
May 13
8
May 17
6
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 6 posts
Ham 19 posts
Jeaniam 11 posts
JavaJane 6 posts
Popular Days
May 18 2007
32 posts
May 12 2007
10 posts
May 13 2007
8 posts
May 17 2007
6 posts
Jeaniam
For one thing, the percentage we were talking about was in regard to the ABS, not the charge for taking the class. For another the usual charge for taking the class was $25.00, not $100.00, and that covered materials for the class, refreshments, and other extraneous expenses involved in the class. I really like the idea that at least 85% of the ABS stays right in the area where it was generated and can be used for needs in that area, rather than what was the case in TWI; where ALL the ABS went to headquarters and very little of it ever found it's way back. As I've said before, the ABS in our area has been used to help various people who for one reason or another found themselves under financial pressure. It sounds pretty Christlike to me. In the gospels, it refers to Judas as being the treasurer (or keeper of the bag) for the group but it never (as far as I know) says how that money was generated, so even Christ carried money around for some purpose apparently. At least my ABS isn't currently ending up in TWI's coffers of millions.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Then again thats about three or four maybe good cups of coffee at a coffee shop, not exactly anything one could live on now is it? It is a small price to pay which by the way goes mostly for costs in developing more classes and materials. Life costs money ...... No ones making anybody sign on it's there if one wants it not if you don't. Check out licence agreements in the real world if you want to see a real scam.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Agreed Bow. They develop a product and convince people not only that they need it, but even get these people to convince OTHER people that they need it as well.
They then are able to convince people that God needs them to give a percentage of their money to these people for the rest of their lives in order to prosper....
God is the pretty shiny wrapper that they place around their product to make it and themselves look legitimate.
Having been scammed once, people don`t want to have to admit that it happened again.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
You'd be better off being scammed by a real estate scheme.. at least you'd have a chance of getting some of the money back.
But I think money is the least of the problems here.
People who HONESTLY think a drambuie guzzling, plagiarizing, womanaizing, serial rapist and abuser could POSSIBLY be a MAN OF GOD.. or those who followed in his ways..
even when confronted with first hand evidence and testimony..
I think they were scammed out of a lot more than JUST money.
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
:lol: You have a valid point Mr. Hamm.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
shortfuse
Used to be a St0kley and D3bbie Rose in MD. Dunno, just a guess...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jeaniam
No, he doesn't. God is fully capable of recompensing to me any money I was 'scammed' out of by TWI or anyone else. If the people at TWI misused the money I freely gave that is their problem, not mine and very likely God will hold them accountable. Right now I have no reason to think that the group I am involved with is misusing my gifts in any way, and no one has suggested that it is incumbent on me to give ANYTHING nor have I myself ever taken it upon myself to suggest to anyone that it is incumbent upon them to give ANYTHING. The projects that I know my gifts have been used for have my full support, not that is really any of anyone's business to criticize. What does any of the money that you donate get used for, or is the reality that you no longer give anything?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Actually God is the purpose not the wrapper around another product. The point of there being a product as you refer to it, is to develop your understanding and relationship with Him by growing in your understanding of a subject. Much the same way we become better humans and better at serving mankind by developing ourselves through educational classes. Which by the way most people charge for.
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
bowtwi
My my, Jeaniam - are you aware that this is a DISCUSSION board? This isn't everybody says what they think and Jeaniam comes in and tells us what's a valid point - who are YOU that you think you should come in here like this? That's very rude, not to mention insulting and annoying. Stop it!
Jean - your opinion is ONLY THAT - YOUR OPINION. Your opinion is as valuable as mine, Hamm's, rascal's, all of ours - NO MORE and NO LESS.
I was hoping to get into this discussion, but as in other threads I've noticed, when you're involved it turns into personal insults and fantasies of your superiority over whomever you're trying to correct.
I've been discussing controversial subjects with my good friend rascal and others for years on this board and never do we tell each other "You're wrong" or "Hamm's point isn't valid." We can disagree without insulting each other. You might want to try it. It's most satisfying and really a pleasant way to learn things we don't already know.
And hey Jean, one last thing - God really does like all of us as much as he does you.
Whitedove - Thanks for your great example of how to disagree without insulting the writer and give the reader thoughts to ponder, rather than the sting of those insults another poster is zinging out...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Well seeing as MY money WAS used to fund abortions, shopping sprees, exotic vacations..buy the motor coach that women were raped on, no doubt even the very drugs that were slipped in the drinks......I guess that it DOES matter where my money is spent and how it is used.
My money allowed evil men to sate their lusts of their bellies. My money allowed them to buy property and put forth a facade of respectability. Without our money to facilliate their activities...evil could not have thrived.
I`d say that IS my business.
That people are still being decieved and used is my business as well.
I wonder if you would say the same thing about the money the christians gave to THEIR church for God`s use in Jones group..some of which bought the cyanide that was force fed to the children, that bought the bullets and guns that assasinated the government officials who were trying to get people out....
I think that it is our responsibility to ensure that our money is not used to promote evil....shrug
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Spiritural
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jeaniam
Well, I don't think I'm being deceived or used and as far as I know my money is not being used to promote evil. Unforunately you are not only concerned with where YOUR money is being used; you have taken upon yourself the responsibility to decide how other people's money is being used, and apparently decide that it's being used for evil when you have no idea if that is true or not. Maybe you should confine yourself to finding out how your donations are being used (if there are any). And it is not your business when I didn't ask for your opinion (and to be perfectly honest, don't really value it).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
This is what I was talking about:
Hearing the word "doctor" attached to vic's name, or "reverand" to those who followed or enabled his vile lifestyle, turns my stomach.
I think anybody who BLINDLY, without DEMANDING accountability, hands these sob's their hard earned cash, even five dollars a stinking MONTH..
I better not say.
I'll talk about the money.
I'd rather give the money to the government.
I'd rather give it to PETA, or Greenpeace.
I'd rather contribute to a GAY RIGHTS cause.. there would be MORE ACCOUNTABILITY. They would probably do MORE GOOD with the money..
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
Share on other sites
Jeaniam
A DISCUSSION??? It's a discussion where you're expected to agree with the majority viewpoint and the majority viewpoint is 'we hate TWI and everything it stands for and ever stood for' and if you dare to disagree with that, you get hounded and occasionally told that you're not welcome. This place is just about as arbitrary and legalistic as TWI ever was on its worst day. If I don't have any interest in what you're trying to 'teach' me, I will soon find myself in the position of having it rammed down my throat whether I want it or not. But if you're "good friends" with Rascal that explains a lot. And BTW, God really loves all of you as much as He does me; "like", well, that might be a different matter.
Well, that is your choice, just as where I choose to contribute my money is my choice and I don't have to justify it to you or anyone else.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Well duh....nobody THINKS that they are being decieved...that is why it is called deception...
and as far as I know my money is not being used to promote evil.
Ahhh there is the key.....However, the man that is currently in cgarge of your group was one of the great facillitators of evil...somehow I doubt that his motives have become altruistic in the ensuing years....
Unforunately you are not only concerned with where YOUR money is being used;
It`s called accountability jean.
you have taken upon yourself the responsibility to decide how other people's money is being used, and apparently decide that it's being used for evil when you have no idea if that is true or not.
Those are your words not what I said at all
Maybe you should confine yourself to finding out how your donations are being used (if there are any).
If there is any??? Was that supposed to be an insult?? No doubt you wish that I would so that nobody holds the people that are decieving accountible....
And it is not your business when I didn't ask for your opinion (and to be perfectly honest, don't really value it).
Lol...that is ok, I don`t need your approval or value, like Bow said this is a discussion board where my opinion, as well as hamms , even yours is of value.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
??? Who told you that was the definition of a discussion???? No wonder you are having a tough time here...tsk tsk
For clarities sake....A discussion is a sharing of ideas and viewpoints. A CIVILl discussion is when you can do it respectfully
But if you're "good friends" with Rascal that explains a lot.
Bow, I guess that being a friend of mine eliminates the validity of your pov.....lol
And BTW, God really loves all of you as much as He does me; "like", well, that might be a different matter.
That is a pretty bold statement Jean, to decide that God doesn`t like some of us because we don`t agree with your royal nibs....
:lol:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
I'd agree with that Rascal as far as donations they should be a proper steward of peoples gifts, although in a practical sense it may be hard to do unless you sit on a financial board for the group. I've yet to find many groups where money does not find its way to other places.
As far a classes and other products they are a free market product you buy it or not . Much like a bottle of water I don't get to control the money once I buy it ,the corporation does. As a consumer if I don't like what the corporation does then I can choose to buy another brand of water. But I don't fault the company for charging for their product, life is not free.
And I'll add once again learning is not dependent on the instructors lifestyle. If one were to need info on how to repair a chainsaw, the best thing to do is find the best source to do so. You learn because they can teach you not because they fit your idea of morality. I know very little of my school teachers lifestyle's but what they taught me is still none the less true. I do know one who eventually was sent away for his lifestyle choice but none the less the math he taught still is true and still works regardless.
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
Jeaniam
That's the real problem, that you and others like you think that your opinion is worth more than God's. You don't know what his current motives are, but you're prepared to sit in judgement anyway. And BTW how does spewing garbage behind someone's back fall into the category of holding THEM accountable? Especially when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Edited by JeaniamLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Behind someones back??? This is an open forum, any could be here if they chose....lol
No doubt if they didn`t DO these horrible things....things that prove them untrustworthey to be stewards of ANYTHING.....then there would be nothing to talk about I guess
We are examining the fruit THEY manifest in order to determine whether it is spiritual or fleshly. ALL things that are encouraged scripturally.
I am sorry that the leaders of so many of these offshoots do not meet the scriptural criteria for one who claims to be of the spirit....shrug.
I think that money sent to them is fascilitating further evil and hurt to be perpetrated on innocent people.
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
It may be a fine line of demarcation here, but quite a few of these groups ask for "donations" instead of "charging" for their classes.
:)
But that is a good assessment. I just won't pay anymore for warmed over, half eaten, regurgitated pfal material. If it was so great the first time around, why do I need to buy it all over again? If it is so great, why is it that the only people who seem to see the greatness of it are these grifters who insist on continuing vic's legacy?
Oh yes.. the one guy who charges for rights to run his class.. same guy who had a REAL problem with a guy who wrote a paper claiming adultery was sin..
and God is going to give him revelation? New light?
people trust this guy to "rightly divide" the word?
hmm.
You've gotta be kidding..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Honestly, I think he'll stand before the lord, and say, "duuuuh, I just drove da bus.."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JavaJane
I feel EXACTLY like that, Mr. Squirrel... If I am going to start attending another group, then it will be ANOTHER group. Something at the base of the doctrine of twi was wrong, or it wouldn't have produced the fruit it did through the abuse of its followers. Why would I want to attend somewhere that was based on the same doctrines?
If the only thing different than twi is a few small details and the fact that they hate twi as it is today, it just doesn't make sense to head in that direction... Seems like that ministry would mainly be based on hatred for one thing or the other.
Just thinking out loud, here... I figure if you are happy where you are, then stick with it - it must be meeting some need for you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Yep.. some need I guess. I remember when I left der vey, an old "leader" said, "well, where ya gonna go? Who ya gonna fellowship with? what ya gonna doooo.."
As if my very identity would simply dissolve without the influence of der vey..
I really think that some have the opinion that the whole world is going to stop if they abandon the old religion.
If I had that kind of "need", I'd get it taken care of on the cheap. Just buy the materials from the Belezian people, cram it in my brain as many times as I desired.. heck, you can even buy the video of at least one of the advanced classes.. plus disks with every sunday night service in existence.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JavaJane
The squirrel hit it on the head again!!
I think (at least for now) the best thing I can do for myself is spend some serious time developing who I am and my own relationship with God - not the pre-packaged "relationship" any religion says that I "should" have. God is pretty big, I think He has room for an individual daughter like me who doesn't fit into the regular mold.
After all He made me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.