Thanks for the invitation to "trash and bash" if I'd like. It's just that I don't see anything worth bashing, let alone trash.
Thanks JeffSjo,
I've made quite a few changes since I posted that 15 minuts ago. Added a paragraph. Corrected some spelling. It sure does help to just throw it out there. My word pad does not have a spell checker, and I am a terrible speller.
I'm no expert on spelling or metaphysics, so I'm not qualified to throw any stones here. When it comes to spelling I just go over it a few times with a dictionary handy.
Hey Patrick – that's cool stuff! Thanks for posting that! I've got nothing bad to say about it…Parts of it are similar to something I wrote called A Day's Journey. It's basically a script to remind me of priorities, attitudes, goals, methods, etc. that are important to me – it serves as a focusing tool in the morning and as a means of reflection at the end of the day. It's something I revise every so often.
....and speaking of spell-checker
I usually draft a post on my computer [Microsoft Office has a spell-checker of course – then copy and paste it onto Grease Spot Reply Window] but I also loaded one you can use through Grease Spot's Reply Window – for when I want to make a quick response. To load it click on the ABC icon with the check symbol under it. You'll be directed to a website where you can download iSpell onto your PC. If you're using Internet Explorer 7, to check spelling on your Reply Window – click on Tools in the toolbar of your browser and then click on iSpell.
Personally, misspelling or poor grammar in posts don't bother me at all - and I think most folks here are not hung up about it either. I ain't no expert on anything though I was a good speller in grade school but me grammar could use some help - may have to break down and buy How to Speak Gooder English.
When I am in the wrong I will do what it takes to bring myself back to the right for the good of myself and all that are involved. There is always a place for forgiveness, redemption, and reconciliation for myself and others when the heart is willing.
acknowledging to the person wronged that you were wrong.
Hi there. An aside - I've been reading a book titled "The Four Agreements". It's an interesting read, and while I don't subscribe to the specific faith of the writer I've found the approach, the angle of thought, interesting. A part of that angle is the idea that we "create" our own "reality", for ourselves and others. Not exactly a new notion but in it he defines "magic" as what we cause ourselves and others to believe, by what we say and do. A simple word or statement can cause another to view themselves good or bad, and it can be remembered for years. What we say particularly puts impressions and expectations on others that often have powerful effect.
His suggestion is to be careful - "impeccable" - in our word, what we say, communicate. To do good. Easier said than done in a lot of cases but a wothwhile endeavor. To carefully and thoughtfully craft our words to accomplish the best we can, would be how I'd put one of his "agreements" with ourselves. Likewise to recognize those things we've "agreed" to from our past that aren't good, that are bad, that have influenced us to lesser ends.
Anyhoo - your Constitution reminds me of that, somewhat. Articulating clearly the foundations of how you want to think, act, interact. Cool.
As to the content, it's your thing. And fortunately you can always edit and amend, with a majority vote. :) A work in progress? Cool.
you say "I will embrace the talents ( by the way you still have several errors in punctuation and spelling just saying) skills, ambition etc....of those working towards the common good(as YOU define common good only) then claim to see with a spiritual eye and understanding.
ok
so
what happens to your constitution whe you engage or meet
a. those who do not share your ideal of what is "common good"?
Do they have any talents or skills or ambitions you could expand your constitution with or not?
You say in the previous paragrah you will allow new ideas etc.... yet is this possible when you apply the last paragrah?
Thanks for sugesting that I post a little something on the class I am taking. It has done me good to get all the input. It has been a good "focusing tool" for me to find what is missing.
sunesis,
When I mentioned your comment to Sarah, she said: "Thank God for those hippies".
as for your change 1) I believe that man is "fallen", do to his own mistakes, and the cards that have been dealt through sircumstance, upbringing, community ect........Man can and should rise above any "fallen" state..........GET UP!
2)As for hope in humanity, I retain it. I was talking to my mother the other day about the "state of the world" When I mentioned that one day it will be better, she said that she did not believe that "the world will ever be a better place". This stems from her Christain beliefs. A belief is a powerful force in our lives and we tend to get what we emagine.
bulwinkl,
Love your avitar. Thanks for your input. I'm not sure that it should be a hard fast rule that I must "acknowlege to the person wronged" but it is implied, in the making of things right, the relationships often can only be mended correctly by admitting my wrongness.
JeffSjo,
Meta=above or after
Physic=physical
The course I am taking is a "foundations" class. It is a 13 session class that uses a book by Ernest Holmes called "Scinece of Mind" as it's text.
Who now call themselves "United Centers For Spiritual Living".
It differs from a Biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry that I use to be a part of, in that it takes the Spiritual practice from all the major religions, and endeavors to use the ones that work.
I never whould have been open to this sort of orginization had I not walked through their doors and liked what I was hearing, seeing and feeling.
socks,
Way cool. "Change Your Thinking, Change Your Life" is a big part of what I am studying now. Bringing all things back to the spiritual is key. It is basic "renewed mind" that enabled us to stay in fellowship with Christ back in our TWI days. It is good teaching.
And yes, I am not locked in to my constitution..........It can, will, and does change as I grow.
When I find that people do not agree with me about what the common good is I allow them and I to coexist, knowing that we are really one and in the end all things will come together.
Yes I can learn from them because I believe that they are a part of me and I am a part of them in some way. BTW here is a paragraph that I have added.
I am not “a man unto myself”. I am one who is part of the whole. Every human being is part of me, and I am part of all humanity. There is somthing that I can learn from each individual, fellow traveler, that I come in contact with.
When I find that people do not agree with me about what the common good is I allow them and I to coexist, knowing that we are really one and in the end all things will come together.
Yes I can learn from them because I believe that they are a part of me and I am a part of them in some way. BTW here is a paragraph that I have added.
I am not “a man unto myself”. I am one who is part of the whole. Every human being is part of me, and I am part of all humanity. There is somthing that I can learn from each individual, fellow traveler, that I come in contact with.
It's your choice of course where you go, but it doesn't seem like this is a Christian place. It sounds more like a Universalist type place which if you're not Christian is a great place to go :blink: I know I attended one in my area just to see what it was all about and there is not any allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ and they believe that all roads are going to heaven or nirvana or whatever etc etc. Since I am Christian, there is only one way to the Holy Father, and that is through his Holy Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Hope you see the light....metaphysics is an open door for the wrong type of spirituality. Of course, to those who aren't Christian on this forum they won't get the point either...
I suppose that I will throw in my .02 cents worth.
On the whole, I think that your Constitution is a good place to start. There are several good basic ideas and beliefs contained within. Most I can or at least once agreed with. Some...not so much.
For example:
As Pond said, "Common good" is a subjective idea. It can and does change with every individual. Most people are content with finding and associating with individuals that share their particular recipe for "Common good".
On the concept of "faith in the goodness of mankind" I, like Sunesis do not share this belief. I believe in the goodness of individuals. Mankind is a fallen race, if you are a Christian this statement is a fact not a theory. But some individuals have risen from the fallen state and it is these individuals working in concert that often give the young a false image of the "goodness of mankind". Hence the many usages of the phrase.
I place the majority of my "hope" in the Return of Jesus Christ. However I am confident that someday God will prevail and the world will be a better place. But that will happen with the return...so I suppose that I have effectively gone full circle.
Once again because I am a Christian I do not believe that man or mankind can effect any lasting positive change or movement in the worlds population. The Bible clearly states on more than one occassion that the world will wax worse and worse until the Return. This is not to say that inidividuals may not find a portion of peace and tranquility within their own little world where they have some control over the atmospher. World peace without the Return of Jesus Christ is just not going to happen. But that is just my belief.
All of this being said, I applaud your effort and highly encourage you to keep it and revise it as you see fit. Identifying ones core set of beliefs is quite helpful in the journey of life. It helps keep your compass and your rudder true when you encounter storms.
I do not know what level of education your writing this page for, I can tell you most higher education lit courses focus on cohesiveness of your presentation of your ideal, NOT the ideal .
institute of learning are not about a right and wrong ideas but rather how you communcate your thesis.
(not to say it is a good idea on how to suck up to a certain professor at times to get through the credit hours lol)
my angle was one of understanding how you say, what you say, aand it is contrdictory to say the least. and it doesnt comunicate or present as a strong paper.
are you looking for a grade ? Your teacher will not question your ideals but rather ask you to define them , that is the goal of higher education.
the paper is a learning tool to help you communicate your idea better.. when one has to explain and readdress and add on does that not indicate a fuzzy presentation in and of itself?
as far as your position i also have no comment most will write their constitution at will... and often it effects few other than their own self.
unless written in such a compelling manner to strike up inquiry. this is what your teacher is trying to help you learn about you as a student and for you as a student .
on a more personal less academic stance.
no i do not believe "every human is a part of me"
dear God that would indeed send me over the edge of life itself.
It's your choice of course where you go, but it doesn't seem like this is a Christian place. It sounds more like a Universalist type place which if you're not Christian is a great place to go :blink: I know I attended one in my area just to see what it was all about and there is not any allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ and they believe that all roads are going to heaven or nirvana or whatever etc etc. Since I am Christian, there is only one way to the Holy Father, and that is through his Holy Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Hope you see the light....metaphysics is an open door for the wrong type of spirituality. Of course, to those who aren't Christian on this forum they won't get the point either...
Hi brideofjc,
New Thought is not a Bible bound philosophy, but it does use a lot of Bible for reference. I am greatly influenced by Christianity especially Paul.
Jesus Christ walked with the relationship to God that we all can attain to. I and the Father are one. As far as "wrong type of spirituality" goes, I am not dualistic. Wrong spirituality would be any tyrannical system or a system that causes harm rather then health. I do agree with you though that we do need to be carefull what we submit ourselves to. New Thought and New Age are two different things.
I suppose that I will throw in my .02 cents worth.
On the whole, I think that your Constitution is a good place to start. There are several good basic ideas and beliefs contained within. Most I can or at least once agreed with. Some...not so much.
Thanks for your two cents.
Seven is a good number......but it is changing a little at a time.
As far as the Christian veiw of a fallen world: Same same. A belief is a poweful thing that effects our lives in powerful ways. The good thing is the beliefs do change if we let them. Through trial and error we learn what works for us and what does not.
I do agree that we can give a false immage with such wordage as "the goodness of mankind". It is important to teach the young that not all people have evolved to letting love be there guiding precept. It is much like Pauls analogy of the "Body of Christ" comming to a "perfect man", we are not all there yet.
All of this being said, I applaud your effort and highly encourage you to keep it and revise it as you see fit. Identifying ones core set of beliefs is quite helpful in the journey of life. It helps keep your compass and your rudder true when you encounter storms.
I do not know what level of education your writing this page for, I can tell you most higher education lit courses focus on cohesiveness of your presentation of your ideal, NOT the ideal .
institute of learning are not about a right and wrong ideas but rather how you communcate your thesis.
The course is "adult education". No credit in the real world, just the orginization. It is a reqired course in order to take other courses that lead to being a Spiritual Practitioner in Religious Science.
are you looking for a grade ?
......... most will write their constitution at will... and often it effects few other than their own self.
There is no grade. It is pass or fail. The onley way to fail is not neet the criteria of handing in a project and not attending 11 out of the 13 sessions. Each session has homework that must be turned in as well.........................I'm passing.
on a more personal less academic stance.
no i do not believe "every human is a part of me"
dear God that would indeed send me over the edge of life itself.
Every human a part of me is similar to the Body of Christ analogy, don't you think? Jesus prayed that we would be one even as He and the Father are one. At least the Christian has to admit that every Christian is a part of me.
Then we broke that down to sonship and fellowship.........remember. We are always sons, therefor part of the Body, but we are not always in fellowship. In the bigger sense, if all men have the same Father of all Spiritual beings, then just because all men do not walk in their Spiritual nature, that does not mean that they never will or are not to a certain degree.
The course is "adult education". No credit in the real world, just the orginization. It is a reqired course in order to take other courses that lead to being a Spiritual Practitioner in Religious Science.
There is no grade. It is pass or fail. The onley way to fail is not neet the criteria of handing in a project and not attending 11 out of the 13 sessions. Each session has homework that must be turned in as well.........................I'm passing.
Every human a part of me is similar to the Body of Christ analogy, don't you think? Jesus prayed that we would be one even as He and the Father are one. At least the Christian has to admit that every Christian is a part of me.
Then we broke that down to sonship and fellowship.........remember. We are always sons, therefor part of the Body, but we are not always in fellowship. In the bigger sense, if all men have the same Father of all Spiritual beings, then just because all men do not walk in their Spiritual nature, that does not mean that they never will or are not to a certain degree.
Science has proven dna as a base line of the species of humans, i have a cat but he is his own cat , brown fur likes to bite over weight and indeed miserable beast... a cat yet another cat not this one is not so.
as it is in the humans .
you really can not use religous belief system to compare to science ruling in the case of what is part of what, YOU believe this ideal of "the one body of Christ" science proves dna whether they believe as you do or not they are still a human being.
many do not think this body of christ theory in fact we as humans have several religous theorys doesnt change the fact they belong to the species considered human.
you can not compare the two .
it is the body of CHRIST a spiritual comparision of where christian theory is at.
do ya think we will all warp into this massive creature with big hair some day? hahahaha
no
of course not.
In the kingdom as Jesus Rules as KING OF KING we will be people just as we are today just folks living breathing having children , making mistakes in life . DEATH is not conquered in the kingdom people will die(not those that were raised from the dead already of course) .
it will be different because we will have Jesus and eventualy God to talk to and help us but we will be his original creation as we are! 1000 years is quite a long time again
if you knew my face today you will recognize me as the same in the kingdom.
not untill death is destroyed will "people end" then Jesus will hand us ALL including his own life and breath over to the Father.
God gave us brains with the ability to learn and make choices free will is part of our created nature by a mighty God.
people or in fact the theory of the body of Christ are not a collection of thoughts spun together to make one perfect thought in mankind.
God the father didnt have a few billion children, with one collective thought base .
do you have children know any?
each is different right each has different dreams and goals likes dislikes problems in life right?
so did ya teach them to look at the ONE perfect son you do have and say a magic potion and turn them all into HIM?
no .
that is not it we are not a collective of the perfect man ... We are each one of Gods beloved children who He tenderly loves as an individual and meets each of our needs because He is love.
God is our Father each one of us.
Jesus Christ knows HIM best and loves each of us so much He is put into the position to help Us with the common spirit God granted us because He was such a good Son.
we are still and always will be pretty much cample of wrong and right and free wil , you truly lessen Jesus christ and his position when you claim we are the same as HIM.
.......to a" perfect man,we are not all there yet.
so who do you think is "there" ? do you get to decide with those spiritual eyes that are part of your constitution?
The bible says CLEARLY JESUS CHRIST is the only one who was without Sin and blemish .
and you also believe every man is a part of you well if you use soem common sense that sounds pretty much like a cult brain. the borg
Hey pond,
What is the borg?
We are all there to a certain degree. The whole context of the Body of Christ is that God has made some to the ministry of teachers, prophets, ect ect ect............These ones that God has made able to minister......have they made it there yet? The trick is to teach people to follow God and not man. Not to "heap to themselfs teachers"............I am of Paul, I am of Apolos...........ect....we are all of God. There is no division in Christ. Perfect world.
And yet I show you a more perfect way.........
Love is patience, love is kind,
It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It is not rude, it is not self seeking it is not easily angered.
It does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, alsays trusts, always hopes, always percerveres.
Love never fails.
The standard is love.
It is not up to me to decide who is worthy or not......all are worthy. We love all.
I can't make others follow my constitution. I can only endeavour to make me follow it.
Cult brain?
Spiritual living?
I choose Spirit over mens lables. Heres a cult, theres a cult, everwhere a cult, cult...........
I choose to commune with those who endeavour to love.
I think we all need community and we starve ourselves out of fear or pride.
Pride keeps us from fellowshipping with them that differ from us.
Metaphysical - Longer definition: Metaphysics is a type of philosophy or study that uses broad concepts to help define reality and our understanding of it. Metaphysical studies generally seek to explain inherent or universal elements of reality which are not easily discovered or experienced in our everyday life. As such, it is concerned with explaining the features of reality that exist beyond the physical world and our immediate senses. Metaphysics, therefore, uses logic based on the meaning of human terms, rather than on a logic tied to human sense perception of the objective world. Metaphysics might include the study of the nature of the human mind, the definition and meaning of existence, or the nature of space, time, and/or causality.
The origin of philosophy, beginning with the Pre-Socratics, was metaphysical in nature. For example, the philosopher Plotinus held that the reason in the world and in the rational human mind is only a reflection of a more universal and perfect reality beyond our limited human reason. He termed this ordering power in the universe "God."
Metaphysical ideas, because they are not based on direct experience with material reality, are often in conflict with the modern sciences. Beginning with the Enlightenment and the Scientific Revolution, experiments with, and observations of, the world became the yardsticks for measuring truth and reality. Therefore, our contemporary valuation of scientific knowledge over other forms of knowledge helps explain the controversy and skepticism concerning metaphysical claims, which are considered unverifiable by modern science.
In matters of religion, the problem of validating metaphysical claims is most readily seen in all of the "proofs" for the existence of God. Like trying to prove the existence of a "soul" or "spirit" in the human, attempts to scientifically prove the existence of God and other nonobjective, nonhuman realities is seemingly impossible. The difficulty arises out of the attempt to scientifically study and objectify something which, by its very nature, cannot become an object of our scientific studies. This reigning belief that everything can be explained scientifically in terms of natural causes - referred to as naturalism - compels many to think that only what is seen or sensed, only what can be hypothesized and tested can be true, and therefore, meaningful to us as humans.
Recently, however, even as metaphysics has come under attack for its apparent lack of access to real knowledge, so has science begun to have its own difficulties in claiming absolute knowledge. Continual developments in our understanding of the human thought process reveals that science cannot solely be relied upon to explain reality, for the human mind cannot be seen as simply a mirror of the natural world. For example, since the act of scientific observation itself tends to produce the reality it hopes to explain, the so-called "truths" of science cannot be considered as final or objective. This fact manifests itself over and over again, as scientific truths and laws continue to break down or yield to new and better explanations of reality. What becomes apparent, therefore, is that the process of human interpretation in the sciences, as elsewhere, is both variable and relative to the observer's viewpoint.
Under the skeptical analyses of the philosophical movements known as postmodernism and deconstructionism, all of these facts have resulted in a modern repudiation of both metaphysics and science. Their criticisms are based on the cultural and historical relativity of all knowledge. These two philosophical "schools" deny any existence at all of an objective or universal knowledge. Thus, metaphysical claims stand today between the absolutist claims of science (scientism) and the complete relativism of postmodernism and deconstructionism.
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i think it is a woderful dialog and good luck with your studies what do you hope to do when you complete the course?
Science has proven dna as a base line of the species of humans, i have a cat but he is his own cat , brown fur likes to bite over weight and indeed miserable beast... a cat yet another cat not this one is not so.
as it is in the humans .
Cats are not Spiritual beings like humans are. Cats may well have cat spirit, I don't know. Cat soul.
Humans are one race. Metaphysically we all have a Spirit and a Soul that is the same. I have a Human soul.....so do you. They are remarkably the same.
you really can not use religous belief system to compare to science ruling in the case of what is part of what, YOU believe this ideal of "the one body of Christ" science proves dna whether they believe as you do or not they are still a human being.
many do not think this body of christ theory in fact we as humans have several religous theorys doesnt change the fact they belong to the species considered human.
you can not compare the two .
I can too
The body of Christ is Paul's analogy. I can take Paul's analogy and make it my own with a completely different standard. Paul said "we are all members". When Paul saw his "bretheren" he saw the Body of Christ. When I see any human being I can call them my "bretheren" and see the one bread, one body, Christ.
it is the body of CHRIST a spiritual comparision of where christian theory is at.
do ya think we will all warp into this massive creature with big hair some day? hahahaha
no
of course not.
I am using Pauls ananlogy as a spiritual comparison on a bigger level.
In the kingdom as Jesus Rules as KING OF KING we will be people just as we are today just folks living breathing having children , making mistakes in life .
God gave us brains with the ability to learn and make choices free will is part of our created nature by a mighty God.
we are not borg.
Still not sure what borg is.
I believe in free will as well. I believe that with our free will we are drawn to God through trial and error. We learn a little here and a little there.
If you need Jesus Christ as king of kings and Lord of lords in order to love, then more power to you......as long as the love follows. God is love.
One can have Jesus as Lord and not have love,
and one Can have Love as Lord and not have Jesus(though they are one).
Much of Christian doctrine on Lordship falls short for me. I don't think that Jesus cares one way or the other if you call Him Lord, as long as you have love. I'm not bashing Jesus. I'm bashing a doctrine that excludes a majority of the race because of their particularities.
Yes, in my constitution I go with Love. The one who has Jesus but has not love, has not God(in their heart).
I really do think you will ave a difficult time telling people they have a spirit .
people do not belive in a God dear. some do... but not very many believe it is the same God in that what His instructions may say or what He looks like or the plan.
many religous groups here today and the history of metaphysics will tell you that ...
it is not at all common.
also
Do you believe all people are born from their mom with a soul and a spirit?
I do not. I think we have to be born again in the sense of accepting Jesus christ the SAVIOR of mankind believe God raised him from the dead Romans 10 etc..
and i know plenty do not accept this doctrine as truth so God is what just letting them pass? and give them a spirit anywyas? no choice in life huh?
every person breathes tho and has common dna. all whether they think a frog is God or Jesus is Way truth etc.
God created our soul all mankind.
and they are somewhat common in the DNa or the script BUT we all have a personality and sin etc...
not everyone has a spirit some do not want one .
we are free to deny a God any God plenty available. or to accept. spirit connotes a God of some sort so even if a person believes in a God doesnt mean he has the same belief system YOU learned in life or standard. i assume you think your standard is the holy bible so do many others.. and what God says to them is what many doctrinal division makes for the free will to flourish and even deny a spirit/ did ya read what i posted on metaphysic?sp
it is free will we live in .
borg is the method of collective thought of many put together for the common good. i should not have used the term star trek fans know it.
God doesnt take what you think what you believe is truth and blend it in with mine and the guy next door and make us think alike. we are not borg.
come on now
love is good except for those times it kicked my a@@ and i cried for weeks about it.
a general l LOVE is good is not a very detailed constitution is it?
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JeffSjo
Hi Patrick and Sarah,
Thanks for the invitation to "trash and bash" if I'd like. It's just that I don't see anything worth bashing, let alone trash.
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Patrick and Sarah
Thanks JeffSjo,
I've made quite a few changes since I posted that 15 minuts ago. Added a paragraph. Corrected some spelling. It sure does help to just throw it out there. My word pad does not have a spell checker, and I am a terrible speller.
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JeffSjo
Hi guys,
I'm no expert on spelling or metaphysics, so I'm not qualified to throw any stones here. When it comes to spelling I just go over it a few times with a dictionary handy.
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T-Bone
Hey Patrick – that's cool stuff! Thanks for posting that! I've got nothing bad to say about it…Parts of it are similar to something I wrote called A Day's Journey. It's basically a script to remind me of priorities, attitudes, goals, methods, etc. that are important to me – it serves as a focusing tool in the morning and as a means of reflection at the end of the day. It's something I revise every so often.
....and speaking of spell-checker
I usually draft a post on my computer [Microsoft Office has a spell-checker of course – then copy and paste it onto Grease Spot Reply Window] but I also loaded one you can use through Grease Spot's Reply Window – for when I want to make a quick response. To load it click on the ABC icon with the check symbol under it. You'll be directed to a website where you can download iSpell onto your PC. If you're using Internet Explorer 7, to check spelling on your Reply Window – click on Tools in the toolbar of your browser and then click on iSpell.
Personally, misspelling or poor grammar in posts don't bother me at all - and I think most folks here are not hung up about it either. I ain't no expert on anything though I was a good speller in grade school but me grammar could use some help - may have to break down and buy How to Speak Gooder English.
[edited just because I could]
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Sunesis
Well, its nice. A lot like we used to write in high school during the hippie days striving for peace in the world. Its written by a young person.
I see it as a humanistic treastise.
If I wrote it I would change two things:
1. I will never have "faith in the goodness of mankind." I do not believe mankind is inherently good. I believe we are a fallen race.
2. I will never "hope" in humans or humanity. You will be sadly disappointed down the road.
Other than that, what's not to like? Good job.
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bulwinkl
The only thing I would add or change is
When I am in the wrong I will do what it takes to bring myself back to the right for the good of myself and all that are involved. There is always a place for forgiveness, redemption, and reconciliation for myself and others when the heart is willing.
acknowledging to the person wronged that you were wrong.
Other then that it was/is very impressive
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JeffSjo
Hi guys, (It sounds like Patrick is writing but I'm not sure.)
Would you be willing to explain what metaphysics is for me?
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socks
Hi there. An aside - I've been reading a book titled "The Four Agreements". It's an interesting read, and while I don't subscribe to the specific faith of the writer I've found the approach, the angle of thought, interesting. A part of that angle is the idea that we "create" our own "reality", for ourselves and others. Not exactly a new notion but in it he defines "magic" as what we cause ourselves and others to believe, by what we say and do. A simple word or statement can cause another to view themselves good or bad, and it can be remembered for years. What we say particularly puts impressions and expectations on others that often have powerful effect.
His suggestion is to be careful - "impeccable" - in our word, what we say, communicate. To do good. Easier said than done in a lot of cases but a wothwhile endeavor. To carefully and thoughtfully craft our words to accomplish the best we can, would be how I'd put one of his "agreements" with ourselves. Likewise to recognize those things we've "agreed" to from our past that aren't good, that are bad, that have influenced us to lesser ends.
Anyhoo - your Constitution reminds me of that, somewhat. Articulating clearly the foundations of how you want to think, act, interact. Cool.
As to the content, it's your thing. And fortunately you can always edit and amend, with a majority vote. :) A work in progress? Cool.
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pond
you say "I will embrace the talents ( by the way you still have several errors in punctuation and spelling just saying) skills, ambition etc....of those working towards the common good(as YOU define common good only) then claim to see with a spiritual eye and understanding.
ok
so
what happens to your constitution whe you engage or meet
a. those who do not share your ideal of what is "common good"?
Do they have any talents or skills or ambitions you could expand your constitution with or not?
You say in the previous paragrah you will allow new ideas etc.... yet is this possible when you apply the last paragrah?
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Patrick and Sarah
T-Bone,
Thanks for sugesting that I post a little something on the class I am taking. It has done me good to get all the input. It has been a good "focusing tool" for me to find what is missing.
sunesis,
When I mentioned your comment to Sarah, she said: "Thank God for those hippies".
as for your change 1) I believe that man is "fallen", do to his own mistakes, and the cards that have been dealt through sircumstance, upbringing, community ect........Man can and should rise above any "fallen" state..........GET UP!
2)As for hope in humanity, I retain it. I was talking to my mother the other day about the "state of the world" When I mentioned that one day it will be better, she said that she did not believe that "the world will ever be a better place". This stems from her Christain beliefs. A belief is a powerful force in our lives and we tend to get what we emagine.
bulwinkl,
Love your avitar. Thanks for your input. I'm not sure that it should be a hard fast rule that I must "acknowlege to the person wronged" but it is implied, in the making of things right, the relationships often can only be mended correctly by admitting my wrongness.
JeffSjo,
Meta=above or after
Physic=physical
The course I am taking is a "foundations" class. It is a 13 session class that uses a book by Ernest Holmes called "Scinece of Mind" as it's text.
The parent orginization is:
http://www.religiousscience.org/
Who now call themselves "United Centers For Spiritual Living".
It differs from a Biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry that I use to be a part of, in that it takes the Spiritual practice from all the major religions, and endeavors to use the ones that work.
I never whould have been open to this sort of orginization had I not walked through their doors and liked what I was hearing, seeing and feeling.
socks,
Way cool. "Change Your Thinking, Change Your Life" is a big part of what I am studying now. Bringing all things back to the spiritual is key. It is basic "renewed mind" that enabled us to stay in fellowship with Christ back in our TWI days. It is good teaching.
And yes, I am not locked in to my constitution..........It can, will, and does change as I grow.
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Patrick and Sarah
pond,
Thanks for sneeking in there.
When I find that people do not agree with me about what the common good is I allow them and I to coexist, knowing that we are really one and in the end all things will come together.
Yes I can learn from them because I believe that they are a part of me and I am a part of them in some way. BTW here is a paragraph that I have added.
I am not “a man unto myself”. I am one who is part of the whole. Every human being is part of me, and I am part of all humanity. There is somthing that I can learn from each individual, fellow traveler, that I come in contact with.
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brideofjc
It's your choice of course where you go, but it doesn't seem like this is a Christian place. It sounds more like a Universalist type place which if you're not Christian is a great place to go :blink: I know I attended one in my area just to see what it was all about and there is not any allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ and they believe that all roads are going to heaven or nirvana or whatever etc etc. Since I am Christian, there is only one way to the Holy Father, and that is through his Holy Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Hope you see the light....metaphysics is an open door for the wrong type of spirituality. Of course, to those who aren't Christian on this forum they won't get the point either...
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Eyesopen
I suppose that I will throw in my .02 cents worth.
On the whole, I think that your Constitution is a good place to start. There are several good basic ideas and beliefs contained within. Most I can or at least once agreed with. Some...not so much.
For example:
As Pond said, "Common good" is a subjective idea. It can and does change with every individual. Most people are content with finding and associating with individuals that share their particular recipe for "Common good".
On the concept of "faith in the goodness of mankind" I, like Sunesis do not share this belief. I believe in the goodness of individuals. Mankind is a fallen race, if you are a Christian this statement is a fact not a theory. But some individuals have risen from the fallen state and it is these individuals working in concert that often give the young a false image of the "goodness of mankind". Hence the many usages of the phrase.
I place the majority of my "hope" in the Return of Jesus Christ. However I am confident that someday God will prevail and the world will be a better place. But that will happen with the return...so I suppose that I have effectively gone full circle.
Once again because I am a Christian I do not believe that man or mankind can effect any lasting positive change or movement in the worlds population. The Bible clearly states on more than one occassion that the world will wax worse and worse until the Return. This is not to say that inidividuals may not find a portion of peace and tranquility within their own little world where they have some control over the atmospher. World peace without the Return of Jesus Christ is just not going to happen. But that is just my belief.
All of this being said, I applaud your effort and highly encourage you to keep it and revise it as you see fit. Identifying ones core set of beliefs is quite helpful in the journey of life. It helps keep your compass and your rudder true when you encounter storms.
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pond
I do not know what level of education your writing this page for, I can tell you most higher education lit courses focus on cohesiveness of your presentation of your ideal, NOT the ideal .
institute of learning are not about a right and wrong ideas but rather how you communcate your thesis.
(not to say it is a good idea on how to suck up to a certain professor at times to get through the credit hours lol)
my angle was one of understanding how you say, what you say, aand it is contrdictory to say the least. and it doesnt comunicate or present as a strong paper.
are you looking for a grade ? Your teacher will not question your ideals but rather ask you to define them , that is the goal of higher education.
the paper is a learning tool to help you communicate your idea better.. when one has to explain and readdress and add on does that not indicate a fuzzy presentation in and of itself?
as far as your position i also have no comment most will write their constitution at will... and often it effects few other than their own self.
unless written in such a compelling manner to strike up inquiry. this is what your teacher is trying to help you learn about you as a student and for you as a student .
on a more personal less academic stance.
no i do not believe "every human is a part of me"
dear God that would indeed send me over the edge of life itself.
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Patrick and Sarah
Hi brideofjc,
New Thought is not a Bible bound philosophy, but it does use a lot of Bible for reference. I am greatly influenced by Christianity especially Paul.
Jesus Christ walked with the relationship to God that we all can attain to. I and the Father are one. As far as "wrong type of spirituality" goes, I am not dualistic. Wrong spirituality would be any tyrannical system or a system that causes harm rather then health. I do agree with you though that we do need to be carefull what we submit ourselves to. New Thought and New Age are two different things.
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Patrick and Sarah
Thanks for your two cents.
Seven is a good number......but it is changing a little at a time.
As far as the Christian veiw of a fallen world: Same same. A belief is a poweful thing that effects our lives in powerful ways. The good thing is the beliefs do change if we let them. Through trial and error we learn what works for us and what does not.
I do agree that we can give a false immage with such wordage as "the goodness of mankind". It is important to teach the young that not all people have evolved to letting love be there guiding precept. It is much like Pauls analogy of the "Body of Christ" comming to a "perfect man", we are not all there yet.
I am having fun with it.
Thanks
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Patrick and Sarah
The course is "adult education". No credit in the real world, just the orginization. It is a reqired course in order to take other courses that lead to being a Spiritual Practitioner in Religious Science.
There is no grade. It is pass or fail. The onley way to fail is not neet the criteria of handing in a project and not attending 11 out of the 13 sessions. Each session has homework that must be turned in as well.........................I'm passing.
Every human a part of me is similar to the Body of Christ analogy, don't you think? Jesus prayed that we would be one even as He and the Father are one. At least the Christian has to admit that every Christian is a part of me.
Then we broke that down to sonship and fellowship.........remember. We are always sons, therefor part of the Body, but we are not always in fellowship. In the bigger sense, if all men have the same Father of all Spiritual beings, then just because all men do not walk in their Spiritual nature, that does not mean that they never will or are not to a certain degree.
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pond
.
you write
.......to a" perfect man,we are not all there yet.
so who do you think is "there" ? do you get to decide with those spiritual eyes that are part of your constitution?
The bible says CLEARLY JESUS CHRIST is the only one who was without Sin and blemish .
and you also believe every man is a part of you well if you use soem common sense that sounds pretty much like a cult brain. the borg
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pond
Science has proven dna as a base line of the species of humans, i have a cat but he is his own cat , brown fur likes to bite over weight and indeed miserable beast... a cat yet another cat not this one is not so.
as it is in the humans .
you really can not use religous belief system to compare to science ruling in the case of what is part of what, YOU believe this ideal of "the one body of Christ" science proves dna whether they believe as you do or not they are still a human being.
many do not think this body of christ theory in fact we as humans have several religous theorys doesnt change the fact they belong to the species considered human.
you can not compare the two .
it is the body of CHRIST a spiritual comparision of where christian theory is at.
do ya think we will all warp into this massive creature with big hair some day? hahahaha
no
of course not.
In the kingdom as Jesus Rules as KING OF KING we will be people just as we are today just folks living breathing having children , making mistakes in life . DEATH is not conquered in the kingdom people will die(not those that were raised from the dead already of course) .
it will be different because we will have Jesus and eventualy God to talk to and help us but we will be his original creation as we are! 1000 years is quite a long time again
if you knew my face today you will recognize me as the same in the kingdom.
not untill death is destroyed will "people end" then Jesus will hand us ALL including his own life and breath over to the Father.
God gave us brains with the ability to learn and make choices free will is part of our created nature by a mighty God.
we are not borg.
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pond
i assume you know what borg is.
sorry i will explain
people or in fact the theory of the body of Christ are not a collection of thoughts spun together to make one perfect thought in mankind.
God the father didnt have a few billion children, with one collective thought base .
do you have children know any?
each is different right each has different dreams and goals likes dislikes problems in life right?
so did ya teach them to look at the ONE perfect son you do have and say a magic potion and turn them all into HIM?
no .
that is not it we are not a collective of the perfect man ... We are each one of Gods beloved children who He tenderly loves as an individual and meets each of our needs because He is love.
God is our Father each one of us.
Jesus Christ knows HIM best and loves each of us so much He is put into the position to help Us with the common spirit God granted us because He was such a good Son.
we are still and always will be pretty much cample of wrong and right and free wil , you truly lessen Jesus christ and his position when you claim we are the same as HIM.
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Patrick and Sarah
Hey pond,
What is the borg?
We are all there to a certain degree. The whole context of the Body of Christ is that God has made some to the ministry of teachers, prophets, ect ect ect............These ones that God has made able to minister......have they made it there yet? The trick is to teach people to follow God and not man. Not to "heap to themselfs teachers"............I am of Paul, I am of Apolos...........ect....we are all of God. There is no division in Christ. Perfect world.
And yet I show you a more perfect way.........
Love is patience, love is kind,
It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It is not rude, it is not self seeking it is not easily angered.
It does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, alsays trusts, always hopes, always percerveres.
Love never fails.
The standard is love.
It is not up to me to decide who is worthy or not......all are worthy. We love all.
I can't make others follow my constitution. I can only endeavour to make me follow it.
Cult brain?
Spiritual living?
I choose Spirit over mens lables. Heres a cult, theres a cult, everwhere a cult, cult...........
I choose to commune with those who endeavour to love.
I think we all need community and we starve ourselves out of fear or pride.
Pride keeps us from fellowshipping with them that differ from us.
Fear keeps is in our safe house.
Love gets us out.
That is Metaphysical.
Oh well, I ranted.
Thanks pond.
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pond
Metaphysical - Longer definition: Metaphysics is a type of philosophy or study that uses broad concepts to help define reality and our understanding of it. Metaphysical studies generally seek to explain inherent or universal elements of reality which are not easily discovered or experienced in our everyday life. As such, it is concerned with explaining the features of reality that exist beyond the physical world and our immediate senses. Metaphysics, therefore, uses logic based on the meaning of human terms, rather than on a logic tied to human sense perception of the objective world. Metaphysics might include the study of the nature of the human mind, the definition and meaning of existence, or the nature of space, time, and/or causality.
The origin of philosophy, beginning with the Pre-Socratics, was metaphysical in nature. For example, the philosopher Plotinus held that the reason in the world and in the rational human mind is only a reflection of a more universal and perfect reality beyond our limited human reason. He termed this ordering power in the universe "God."
Metaphysical ideas, because they are not based on direct experience with material reality, are often in conflict with the modern sciences. Beginning with the Enlightenment and the Scientific Revolution, experiments with, and observations of, the world became the yardsticks for measuring truth and reality. Therefore, our contemporary valuation of scientific knowledge over other forms of knowledge helps explain the controversy and skepticism concerning metaphysical claims, which are considered unverifiable by modern science.
In matters of religion, the problem of validating metaphysical claims is most readily seen in all of the "proofs" for the existence of God. Like trying to prove the existence of a "soul" or "spirit" in the human, attempts to scientifically prove the existence of God and other nonobjective, nonhuman realities is seemingly impossible. The difficulty arises out of the attempt to scientifically study and objectify something which, by its very nature, cannot become an object of our scientific studies. This reigning belief that everything can be explained scientifically in terms of natural causes - referred to as naturalism - compels many to think that only what is seen or sensed, only what can be hypothesized and tested can be true, and therefore, meaningful to us as humans.
Recently, however, even as metaphysics has come under attack for its apparent lack of access to real knowledge, so has science begun to have its own difficulties in claiming absolute knowledge. Continual developments in our understanding of the human thought process reveals that science cannot solely be relied upon to explain reality, for the human mind cannot be seen as simply a mirror of the natural world. For example, since the act of scientific observation itself tends to produce the reality it hopes to explain, the so-called "truths" of science cannot be considered as final or objective. This fact manifests itself over and over again, as scientific truths and laws continue to break down or yield to new and better explanations of reality. What becomes apparent, therefore, is that the process of human interpretation in the sciences, as elsewhere, is both variable and relative to the observer's viewpoint.
Under the skeptical analyses of the philosophical movements known as postmodernism and deconstructionism, all of these facts have resulted in a modern repudiation of both metaphysics and science. Their criticisms are based on the cultural and historical relativity of all knowledge. These two philosophical "schools" deny any existence at all of an objective or universal knowledge. Thus, metaphysical claims stand today between the absolutist claims of science (scientism) and the complete relativism of postmodernism and deconstructionism.
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i think it is a woderful dialog and good luck with your studies what do you hope to do when you complete the course?
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Patrick and Sarah
Cats are not Spiritual beings like humans are. Cats may well have cat spirit, I don't know. Cat soul.
Humans are one race. Metaphysically we all have a Spirit and a Soul that is the same. I have a Human soul.....so do you. They are remarkably the same.
I can too
The body of Christ is Paul's analogy. I can take Paul's analogy and make it my own with a completely different standard. Paul said "we are all members". When Paul saw his "bretheren" he saw the Body of Christ. When I see any human being I can call them my "bretheren" and see the one bread, one body, Christ.
I am using Pauls ananlogy as a spiritual comparison on a bigger level.
Still not sure what borg is.
I believe in free will as well. I believe that with our free will we are drawn to God through trial and error. We learn a little here and a little there.
If you need Jesus Christ as king of kings and Lord of lords in order to love, then more power to you......as long as the love follows. God is love.
One can have Jesus as Lord and not have love,
and one Can have Love as Lord and not have Jesus(though they are one).
Much of Christian doctrine on Lordship falls short for me. I don't think that Jesus cares one way or the other if you call Him Lord, as long as you have love. I'm not bashing Jesus. I'm bashing a doctrine that excludes a majority of the race because of their particularities.
Yes, in my constitution I go with Love. The one who has Jesus but has not love, has not God(in their heart).
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pond
I really do think you will ave a difficult time telling people they have a spirit .
people do not belive in a God dear. some do... but not very many believe it is the same God in that what His instructions may say or what He looks like or the plan.
many religous groups here today and the history of metaphysics will tell you that ...
it is not at all common.
also
Do you believe all people are born from their mom with a soul and a spirit?
I do not. I think we have to be born again in the sense of accepting Jesus christ the SAVIOR of mankind believe God raised him from the dead Romans 10 etc..
and i know plenty do not accept this doctrine as truth so God is what just letting them pass? and give them a spirit anywyas? no choice in life huh?
every person breathes tho and has common dna. all whether they think a frog is God or Jesus is Way truth etc.
God created our soul all mankind.
and they are somewhat common in the DNa or the script BUT we all have a personality and sin etc...
not everyone has a spirit some do not want one .
we are free to deny a God any God plenty available. or to accept. spirit connotes a God of some sort so even if a person believes in a God doesnt mean he has the same belief system YOU learned in life or standard. i assume you think your standard is the holy bible so do many others.. and what God says to them is what many doctrinal division makes for the free will to flourish and even deny a spirit/ did ya read what i posted on metaphysic?sp
it is free will we live in .
borg is the method of collective thought of many put together for the common good. i should not have used the term star trek fans know it.
God doesnt take what you think what you believe is truth and blend it in with mine and the guy next door and make us think alike. we are not borg.
come on now
love is good except for those times it kicked my a@@ and i cried for weeks about it.
a general l LOVE is good is not a very detailed constitution is it?
ok then .
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