I did go to Grace for a while (played drums in one of the worship bands), and I agree that it is a fabulous church. It was quite a haul to go that far north, so lately we have been going to E 91st St, primarily for their Married For Keeps ministry. Fantastic!!!
The demographic is changing, slowly but surely. Though I dearly love the many people I have had the pleasure to meet and serve with over the past 7 years of my involvement with CES/STF, I'm VERY happy to see much of the TWI influence go away.
E 91st is a great church, too. I (used to) know a lot of people there
"Though I dearly love the many people I have had the pleasure to meet and serve with over the past 7 years of my involvement with CES/STF, I'm VERY happy to see much of the TWI influence go away."
my engines just can't take this one captain!! imho, there's as much twi influence in stiffy as there is in cffm, the geerites, and any other twi offshoot/way tree splinter group! they pay constant homage to the "great truths" der vicster taught them, brag about the fact that wierwille, the founder of twi and stiffy theology, would be proud of what they're doing, and every single person who sits on their exalted BOD is an ex-wayfer! ( "ex" nominally at least). and yet, you state billy, how very happy you are to see much of the twi influence go away????????????????
the twi influence on and in ces/stf will remain as long as there are wayfers running that cult!!.............could you explain what you mean by the statement i quoted above? or maybe tzaia understands what you mean and can help me out?.........either way, it makes no sense to me right now!................thanks!.............and...........peace.
"my engines just can't take this one captain!! imho, there's as much twi influence in stiffy as there is in cffm, the geerites, and any other twi offshoot/way tree splinter group! they pay constant homage to the "great truths" der vicster taught them, brag about the fact that wierwille, the founder of twi and stiffy theology, would be proud of what they're doing, and every single person who sits on their exalted BOD is an ex-wayfer! ( "ex" nominally at least). and yet, you state billy, how very happy you are to see much of the twi influence go away????????????????
DWBH has questions that no one from those groups has answered yet, at least here at this site that I know of. How come?
As far as I know, another reason they cannot get away from TWI's influence (besides the fact former TWI people are running them like DWBH pointed out) is that as far as I can tell, they continue to use as their foundation, the following from PFAL book, pg.5:
"The first and most basic key for power for abundant living is that the Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God. This key is the greatest secret in the world today. It is a secret not because God is keeping it to Himself; it is a secret because people have not believed."
STOP.
These three sentences are LOADED with assumptions but the one point I want to make here is this:
The definition of a "secret" is something that is hidden, NOT something that is not believed. Merriam Webster defines a secret as something, "kept from knowledge or view."
However, for something to be BELIEVED, it has to be KNOWN first, then it can be accepted or rejected.
A secret is NOT KNOWN. So of course, it cannot be believed or rejected yet.
Right off the bat, when I heard this I should have started asking questions.
VPW changed the meaning of an ENGLISH word seemingly at his whim right in the first session of PFAL right under my nose. And I let him get away with it. Why did I do that? For one thing, I WANTED what he taught me to be true. The reasons for that are complex and personal; as are everyone else's.
IMO, I think the best thing to do is to take each sentence of what people say or write and THINK ABOUT IT before we get caught up in believing it and then paying money to learn more about it.
I don't know what Billy is referring to, because I don't think Billy knows. He has no direct knowledge of TWI, so anything he thinks he knows is anecdotal at best. There are surface things that are very different. Worship is more Assemblies of God (IMO) in structure. It is charismatic more along those lines. The music is contemporary; hands are in the air; liturgical dance and banners. However the foundation is pure TWI logic. All you have to do is listen to the podcasts and read the Sower to see it.
"The first and most basic key for power for abundant living is that the Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God. This key is the greatest secret in the world today. It is a secret not because God is keeping it to Himself; it is a secret because people have not believed."
It really is a loaded phrase. It also assumes a great deal about all Christians past and present. . . it is the beginning of separation from them and setting us up as the elite one's who finally believed it. Finally got the truth.
From Rejoices post in the BOD thread.
This New Testament, the Revised English Version® (REV®), is the version that we are developing. We call it the REV because we are presenting a revised version of earlier English versions, primarily the American Standard Version of 1901 (ASV), which we have used as the base text for our work, modifying it when WE feel it is appropriate. Our goal is to eventually have an "essentially literal" translation of the Bible that more closely represents biblical truth than any other translation currently on the market, and also one that is written in today's English.
We think we can do that because we believe a person has to understand the meaning of the text correctly to be able to translate it correctly. Furthermore, one's theology always affects the way that person will translate the text. It is our assertion that there are theological issues that we understand more correctly than most translators, and thus our translation will reflect that theology.
You don't have to wonder where the hubris of this assertion or JAL's letter comes from. They really would make VP proud.
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Tzaia
E 91st is a great church, too. I (used to) know a lot of people there
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DontWorryBeHappy
Billy D said.......
"Though I dearly love the many people I have had the pleasure to meet and serve with over the past 7 years of my involvement with CES/STF, I'm VERY happy to see much of the TWI influence go away."
my engines just can't take this one captain!! imho, there's as much twi influence in stiffy as there is in cffm, the geerites, and any other twi offshoot/way tree splinter group! they pay constant homage to the "great truths" der vicster taught them, brag about the fact that wierwille, the founder of twi and stiffy theology, would be proud of what they're doing, and every single person who sits on their exalted BOD is an ex-wayfer! ( "ex" nominally at least). and yet, you state billy, how very happy you are to see much of the twi influence go away????????????????
the twi influence on and in ces/stf will remain as long as there are wayfers running that cult!!.............could you explain what you mean by the statement i quoted above? or maybe tzaia understands what you mean and can help me out?.........either way, it makes no sense to me right now!................thanks!.............and...........peace.
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GarthP2000
Billy D,
Like I said before, and as DWBH illustrated so succinctly above, ... the rest of what you said regarding this topic of CES/STF, ... is crap.
:B)
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penworks
DWBH wrote:
"my engines just can't take this one captain!! imho, there's as much twi influence in stiffy as there is in cffm, the geerites, and any other twi offshoot/way tree splinter group! they pay constant homage to the "great truths" der vicster taught them, brag about the fact that wierwille, the founder of twi and stiffy theology, would be proud of what they're doing, and every single person who sits on their exalted BOD is an ex-wayfer! ( "ex" nominally at least). and yet, you state billy, how very happy you are to see much of the twi influence go away????????????????
DWBH has questions that no one from those groups has answered yet, at least here at this site that I know of. How come?
As far as I know, another reason they cannot get away from TWI's influence (besides the fact former TWI people are running them like DWBH pointed out) is that as far as I can tell, they continue to use as their foundation, the following from PFAL book, pg.5:
"The first and most basic key for power for abundant living is that the Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God. This key is the greatest secret in the world today. It is a secret not because God is keeping it to Himself; it is a secret because people have not believed."
STOP.
These three sentences are LOADED with assumptions but the one point I want to make here is this:
The definition of a "secret" is something that is hidden, NOT something that is not believed. Merriam Webster defines a secret as something, "kept from knowledge or view."
However, for something to be BELIEVED, it has to be KNOWN first, then it can be accepted or rejected.
A secret is NOT KNOWN. So of course, it cannot be believed or rejected yet.
Right off the bat, when I heard this I should have started asking questions.
VPW changed the meaning of an ENGLISH word seemingly at his whim right in the first session of PFAL right under my nose. And I let him get away with it. Why did I do that? For one thing, I WANTED what he taught me to be true. The reasons for that are complex and personal; as are everyone else's.
IMO, I think the best thing to do is to take each sentence of what people say or write and THINK ABOUT IT before we get caught up in believing it and then paying money to learn more about it.
Peace,
Charlene
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Tzaia
I don't know what Billy is referring to, because I don't think Billy knows. He has no direct knowledge of TWI, so anything he thinks he knows is anecdotal at best. There are surface things that are very different. Worship is more Assemblies of God (IMO) in structure. It is charismatic more along those lines. The music is contemporary; hands are in the air; liturgical dance and banners. However the foundation is pure TWI logic. All you have to do is listen to the podcasts and read the Sower to see it.
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geisha779
It really is a loaded phrase. It also assumes a great deal about all Christians past and present. . . it is the beginning of separation from them and setting us up as the elite one's who finally believed it. Finally got the truth.
From Rejoices post in the BOD thread.
This New Testament, the Revised English Version® (REV®), is the version that we are developing. We call it the REV because we are presenting a revised version of earlier English versions, primarily the American Standard Version of 1901 (ASV), which we have used as the base text for our work, modifying it when WE feel it is appropriate. Our goal is to eventually have an "essentially literal" translation of the Bible that more closely represents biblical truth than any other translation currently on the market, and also one that is written in today's English.
We think we can do that because we believe a person has to understand the meaning of the text correctly to be able to translate it correctly. Furthermore, one's theology always affects the way that person will translate the text. It is our assertion that there are theological issues that we understand more correctly than most translators, and thus our translation will reflect that theology.
You don't have to wonder where the hubris of this assertion or JAL's letter comes from. They really would make VP proud.
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