I'm certain that TWI and the corps was similar to my particular splinter group in most if not all respects. Leadership in River Road Fellowship was reserved mostly for Corps except for cra1g E., who had the capability of being especially bruitish and/or thuggish.
I remember once he (Cra1g E.) said," I just know that I was given God's anger for a reason.?" Besides in the no.2 guy's case it gives Barnard the ability to glory that his own special "true son" in the faith was superior to all or any corps that came around anyway. And from years of experience I can share confidently that if Barnard can find a way to manipulate any situation or scripture to have people give him all the glory he will dam sure do it!
But back to your point Skyrider.....
Over my years with this group it often seemed to me that these leaders lived in some kind of double-minded, double-tongued manner that required some kind of amazing mental gymnastics to maintain at the cost of their own clear conscience I am afraid.
They quoted the scriptures that required leadership humility and servitude, but actually required extreem a$$ kissing from everyone else at the same time. Call it forked tongue, double minded, or speaking out of both sides of their mouth at the same time if you will. The hypocrisy was amazing to me.
Barnard was willing to admit his servitude to anyone who gave up their life, their family, their financial well being, and never failed to bow at his feet. And his thugs have grown into the same thing. But Barnard is careful above all that his thugs kiss his a$$ even more than everyone else. It is important to him that his thugs give him the glory for being able to live in the authority that he's given them. And it is a control issue also.
I hope this much is clear, that they claimed to be servants, but ruled oppresively. At least a tin-pot dictator like Saddam Hussein was honest about what he really was.
(edited for grammar, and a little added for clarity)
This last post has been bugging me steadily since I posted it yesterday.
I don't REALLY mind the crudeness, because LCM was often a very, very crude man. And when describing his actions it seems abundantly clear that he was often rude, crude, and lewd in his private actions and in the things he did and said as the president of TWI.
So while typing words that themselves are crude I feel there is justice in describing LCM's lewd, crude, and rude behavior with language that makes it very, very plain that in spite of the times that many Greasespotters legitimately remember interaction with LCM that was kind and even times he was charming, that he used his charm to cover up and give people reason to excuse his many, many lewd actions.
What I DO REGRET in the previous post is ascribing lewd actions to LCM that I can not be specifically certain of. I can not with certainty ascribe to LCM specifically encouraging his wife's fairly thoroughly reported lesbian activity. The truth is that I can not be 100% certain that LCM thought about it at all, except to feel fairly certain that considering the crapola he learned from Wierwille that it is possible he considered his marriage to serve as a kind of sexual healing for his wife.
But as this possibility is concerning a man such as LCM whose many lewd actions have been testified to by many people it also seems likely that any considerations he might have had as concerning "sexual healing" were twisted by the things he learned by Wierwille.
So as to the specific issue of how LCM's lewdness might have played out in his marriage I regret speaking beyond that which I can feel certain of, but not for using crude language to refer to a crude, rude, and lewd man such as LCM. I also think that I will not do a lot of that anymore, unless I feel especially certain that it might actually help someone see LCM for what he was, but in most cases tried to hide or simply put a pr style spin on for the sake of the TWI faithful for years now.
Though the language you use is probably the sort of language that would have been heard coming from that man's mouth.
In keeping with your original post, I'm not sure if the splinter group leaders find it necessary to use such vile language in teaching their people.
Dear Twinky,
I know what you mean about LCM's language verses mine in that particular post. I'd hate to end up being that which I hate. (see Rom. ch 7) And that is exactly why I've decided to hold off more crude language, which LCM proved so adept at in the course of trying to beat people down to get them under his thumb.
But as it applies to my particular former splinter group V.B. could let the rude and crude stuff flow out his mouth like an over used sewer. The thing that I object to the most is that in TWI and the splinter groups there seems to be a certain status that being able to abuse people with rude and crude language implied.
The top leaders seemed to be able to blast away at people without any oversight or accountability. In my former splinter group the act of this type of abuse was a mark of status. And with his narcissism being also a factor he was sure to reject any fellow-turds who took it upon themselves to put people down, especially in his presence.
Once he cussed his wife out for making a minor mistake cooking the spaghetti sauce. He did that in front of the entire group. I think it forced folks to get used to his abuse and facilitated his control over everybody. Once he spent an afternoon more or less cussing out everybody during a men's work day. Once he cussed out (I am not making this up) a military jet that flew overhead during some kind of maneuver and woke his second oldest boy up from his afternoon nap.
I think abusive cussing is part of the mark of TWI leadership and the proof that in spite of all the bible quoting, it is an abusive top-down organization. The same goes with my former splinter group!
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JeffSjo
I'm certain that TWI and the corps was similar to my particular splinter group in most if not all respects. Leadership in River Road Fellowship was reserved mostly for Corps except for cra1g E., who had the capability of being especially bruitish and/or thuggish.
I remember once he (Cra1g E.) said," I just know that I was given God's anger for a reason.?" Besides in the no.2 guy's case it gives Barnard the ability to glory that his own special "true son" in the faith was superior to all or any corps that came around anyway. And from years of experience I can share confidently that if Barnard can find a way to manipulate any situation or scripture to have people give him all the glory he will dam sure do it!
But back to your point Skyrider.....
Over my years with this group it often seemed to me that these leaders lived in some kind of double-minded, double-tongued manner that required some kind of amazing mental gymnastics to maintain at the cost of their own clear conscience I am afraid.
They quoted the scriptures that required leadership humility and servitude, but actually required extreem a$$ kissing from everyone else at the same time. Call it forked tongue, double minded, or speaking out of both sides of their mouth at the same time if you will. The hypocrisy was amazing to me.
Barnard was willing to admit his servitude to anyone who gave up their life, their family, their financial well being, and never failed to bow at his feet. And his thugs have grown into the same thing. But Barnard is careful above all that his thugs kiss his a$$ even more than everyone else. It is important to him that his thugs give him the glory for being able to live in the authority that he's given them. And it is a control issue also.
I hope this much is clear, that they claimed to be servants, but ruled oppresively. At least a tin-pot dictator like Saddam Hussein was honest about what he really was.
(edited for grammar, and a little added for clarity)
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chockfull
And of course for a little bit of common sense logic (never found in TWI)...
In a top-down organization, which way does sh!@#$% flow?
Downhill, of course.
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JeffSjo
Yeah, like.....
Even though I have encouraged my wife to muff dive I am sending the ministry into a homo purge.
Not a quote of LCM on my part, but isn't that what he did?
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JeffSjo
This last post has been bugging me steadily since I posted it yesterday.
I don't REALLY mind the crudeness, because LCM was often a very, very crude man. And when describing his actions it seems abundantly clear that he was often rude, crude, and lewd in his private actions and in the things he did and said as the president of TWI.
So while typing words that themselves are crude I feel there is justice in describing LCM's lewd, crude, and rude behavior with language that makes it very, very plain that in spite of the times that many Greasespotters legitimately remember interaction with LCM that was kind and even times he was charming, that he used his charm to cover up and give people reason to excuse his many, many lewd actions.
What I DO REGRET in the previous post is ascribing lewd actions to LCM that I can not be specifically certain of. I can not with certainty ascribe to LCM specifically encouraging his wife's fairly thoroughly reported lesbian activity. The truth is that I can not be 100% certain that LCM thought about it at all, except to feel fairly certain that considering the crapola he learned from Wierwille that it is possible he considered his marriage to serve as a kind of sexual healing for his wife.
But as this possibility is concerning a man such as LCM whose many lewd actions have been testified to by many people it also seems likely that any considerations he might have had as concerning "sexual healing" were twisted by the things he learned by Wierwille.
So as to the specific issue of how LCM's lewdness might have played out in his marriage I regret speaking beyond that which I can feel certain of, but not for using crude language to refer to a crude, rude, and lewd man such as LCM. I also think that I will not do a lot of that anymore, unless I feel especially certain that it might actually help someone see LCM for what he was, but in most cases tried to hide or simply put a pr style spin on for the sake of the TWI faithful for years now.
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Twinky
Cool post, Jeff.
Though the language you use is probably the sort of language that would have been heard coming from that man's mouth.
In keeping with your original post, I'm not sure if the splinter group leaders find it necessary to use such vile language in teaching their people.
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JeffSjo
Dear Twinky,
I know what you mean about LCM's language verses mine in that particular post. I'd hate to end up being that which I hate. (see Rom. ch 7) And that is exactly why I've decided to hold off more crude language, which LCM proved so adept at in the course of trying to beat people down to get them under his thumb.
But as it applies to my particular former splinter group V.B. could let the rude and crude stuff flow out his mouth like an over used sewer. The thing that I object to the most is that in TWI and the splinter groups there seems to be a certain status that being able to abuse people with rude and crude language implied.
The top leaders seemed to be able to blast away at people without any oversight or accountability. In my former splinter group the act of this type of abuse was a mark of status. And with his narcissism being also a factor he was sure to reject any fellow-turds who took it upon themselves to put people down, especially in his presence.
Once he cussed his wife out for making a minor mistake cooking the spaghetti sauce. He did that in front of the entire group. I think it forced folks to get used to his abuse and facilitated his control over everybody. Once he spent an afternoon more or less cussing out everybody during a men's work day. Once he cussed out (I am not making this up) a military jet that flew overhead during some kind of maneuver and woke his second oldest boy up from his afternoon nap.
I think abusive cussing is part of the mark of TWI leadership and the proof that in spite of all the bible quoting, it is an abusive top-down organization. The same goes with my former splinter group!
(spelling and a little added for clarity)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
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