I think it awesome that this senator has had enough and is trying to launch a criminal investigation into the Church of Scientology's activities because there have been reputable reports of abuse on a level comparable with Wierwille's reported abuses IMO.
This news report has me thinking about legal action against The Way International.
But like Australia IMO, in the U.S. there would be many, many people who reject official action on the basis of a high respect for religious liberty.
On the one hand, I know there are people who hate organized religion and use such activities as an investigation to further their own agenda.
On the other hand there are also many abusive religious organizations that would reject official investigations under the false front of "attacks against religious liberties" because they themselves would not want their abusive, manipulative, and possibly criminal actions exposed.
In the U.S there would doubtlessly be many people for and against official inquiries of cult activity, for both the "right" reasons and the "wrong" reasons on both sides I suppose.
Some would be against inquiries of alleged Way Ministry criminalty because that's how The Way International programmed them to feel. I feel sometimes that GSC has the potiential to wake 'em up and realise that it isn't religious liberty The Way International wants to protect, but instead they wnat to protect themselves from the consequences their actions truly deserve. That is how GSC has caused me to feel.
As far as official inquiries of cult activities go, if it is possible to establish something like that anywhere in the west such movements would need to be able to weather a ton of political heat. And IMO they only have a chance of being worthwhile if they are being run by honest folks who feel very, very highly of religious liberty, also feel like criminals deserve to be punished, and hate the hypocrisy of criminals hiding behind their public stance of "religious liberty."
Thanks for the video clip jeffsjo. I an ex-scientologist myself. I am also a member of an ex-scientologist message board. The belivers of "ZEMU" are in more troble than you think. If you like I can send more info here or in privite if you like.
Thanks for the video clip jeffsjo. I an ex-scientologist myself. I am also a member of an ex-scientologist message board. The belivers of "ZEMU" are in more troble than you think. If you like I can send more info here or in privite if you like.
Thank you for the offer nyunknown, I'm not sure I could do much with it. But it is possible I might share it at a Facebook site where this type of stuff is discussed that I frequent.
Send it if you wish, I might repost it though FYI.
Ok will do. there is actually a long posting about this subject. Since the GSC and the ex-scientology member boards are diffrent. I will look up some details that you might find interesting.
I saw that episode of Boston Legal and it is most everything that I know about Scientology. Well I had heard about Hubbard once boasting he could make up a religion. <_<
And the Vader clip.... :o
dick, dick, dickety dick....haaaaaaahahahahahaha
(added in editing)
I don't know about Vader joining GSC nyunknown....we already have several folks who think themselves to be good at light sabers.
On a more serious note poor Hiram monserrate that no good f**King B**tard who was covicted of a misdemeanor charge of slashing his girlfriend face with a glass and also took part in the coup attempt by switching his vote twice up in albany last summer and changed leadership twice up in the state senate lost a special election after he was thrown out. Poor tom cruise. Well any man who would do that deserves a lot more than being thrown out of office!
Pardon me for not getting back here sooner. Anonymous is a member of the ex-scientology member board like I am. Dave M. The dicator of scientology considers anon the number 1 foe. They plan to change the courses and more massive protests are planned all across the world. Its not in the news yet. But you will all hear it soon.
As far as Sen. Hiram Monserrate goes, as far as I'm concerned cutting his girlfriends face with glass makes him one of many sick, nasty bastards on the face of the planet. But in spite of the urgent and pressing desire to delivery him a first-class beat down I have to remember some things I've learned in life.
#1 I like to decide the Lord will repay, not me.
#2 Be careful, that #$&%* actually cut his girlfriend's face with jagged glass and had his lawyers negotiate a midemeanor plea. He's f'in powerful and dangerous!
IMO, comparing The Way International to Scientology puts The Way international in "THE BUSH LEAGUES" of abusive religious style organizations.
Waterbufflao I decided to post here. I am concerned. This is a link about david miscavage that midget dicator. I am not concerned about silly stuff about 2012 or monty python ect. I am concerned about anyone thinking about joining scientology. My advise is DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT! I acutally talked someone out of joining! Take That that David M!
When I first started to get involved in The Way International I was hooked in part because of doctrinal points that nobody else "seemed" to be able to deal with.
The friendship I found at the twig level was better than anything else I had going at the time.
The religious critics of the Way Ministry either seemed to be unreasonable or illogical to me. Of course the fact that I swallowed Way propoganda hook, line, and sinker about Wierwille being a man of God didn't help me see any legitimate criticism of him I suppose.
The fact that The Way International did such a good job of effectively isolating and silencing it's victims meant I never heard credible and legitimate testimony of Way Leadership's abusive and hidden agendas.
Heck.....if the information you've posted here Nyunknown actually helps anybody avoid the same type of pitfall I fell into, but pertaining to The Church (so-called) of Scientology that is WONDERFUL!
But I'm thinking that anybody who seeks to help any potential cult victim will certainly need to be patient but firm, loving, supportive.... all the good stuff. In my early days of involvement fearful and kneejerk type reactions only served to push me farther into The Way International.
This was written in L.Ron Hubbards own hand writting!
Founded Jan. 19, 1997, by David S. Touretzky (dst@cs.cmu.edu) This page is based on this page.
Q: Why can't Lisa McPherson read this page?
A: Because she's dead. Our sympathy to her family, and the families of all Scientology victims. <BR clear=all>
Space Opera as Theology: Scientology's OT III
This page is dedicated to the analysis and criticism of what Scientologists must consider to be the most significant document in the history of the human race: L. Ron Hubbard's "OT III". (See legal notes below.) The first page of this historic work, jotted down in Hubbard's own hand, is presented herewith:
Transcript:
Data (1) (1)
The head of the Galactic
Confederation (76 planets around
larger stars visible from here)
(founded 95,000,000 yrs ago, very space opera)
solved overpopulation (250 billion
or so per planet) -- 178 billion
average) by mass implanting.
He caused people to be brought to
Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H Bomb
on the principal volcanoes (Incident 2)
and
then
the Pacific area ones
were taken in boxes to
Hawaii
and the Atlantic Area ones to
Las Palmas
and there "packaged."
His name was Xenu. He used
renegades. Various misleading
data by means of circuits etc.
were placed in the implants.
When through with his crime Loyal Officers
(to the people) captured him
after 6 years of battle
and put him in an electronic
mountain trap where he still
is. "They" are gone. The place (Confed.)
has since been a desert.
How do you know this was actually written by L. Ron Hubbard?
The document was authenticated by Helena Kobrin, lawyer for Religious Technology Center, in a letter sent to Carnegie Mellon's legal counsel on January 24, 1997. Her assistance is much appreciated.
Do Scientologists really believe this stuff?
Yes, they do. This essay by Bob Minton describes the Scientology world-view that emerges from OT III.
What comes after OT III?
After OT III comes NOTs, or NED for OTs (New Era Dianetics for Operating Thetans), which covers levels OT IV through OT VII. More body thetan stuff. You can learn about NOTs at the NOTs Scholars Home Page.
Was Xenu a drug-inspired hallucination, or a rip-off from Gurdijeff??
Prignillius contributed this interesting posting concerning how Hubbard's drug use may have contributed to OT III. A reader writes to inform us that "... the body thetans idea is similiar to Gurdjieff's `Organ Kundabuffer': an organ supposedly implanted (long ago) in human bodies in order to twist their perception of reality. The whole of Gurdjieff's work was aimed to destroy the consequences of this Organ (as repeated many times in his Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson book)."
Commentary
Funny that there is no date on this page. Hubbard dated everything. Two later pages of the 20 page handwritten manuscript bear the date October 28, 1968, but the first three pages have no date. Was he too spaced out when he wrote this to remember such details? Why did he write (1) twice at the top of the first page?
The penmanship in this document is poor. Hubbard switches between cursive and printed styles seemingly at random. Notice the "b" in "billion" is printed the first time and cursive the second. And reader Jeff Lee points out that "[Hubbard's] punctuation is atrocious. He also shows some inconsistency in dotting his i's and crossing his t's."
He underlines three words, presumably for emphasis: the word "then", and the place names Hawaii and Las Palmas. It's hard for a lay reader to see why emphasis is needed here. However, location is very important in Scientology auditing: they believe it necessary to "date/locate" an incident in order to properly identify it and "blow the charge" from the engram. Hubbard's definition of "truth" is the exact time, place, form, and event. Hence, location is emphasized here because this information will be needed later to identify which implant station the person (thetan) was taken to. Note that Teegeeack and Earth are not underlined.
Hubbard writes "volcanoes" where my preferred spelling (and the one used in Wakefield's book and the Fishman Declaration) is "volcanos". However, the version of OT III in Scamizdat #5 has "volcanoes". Dictionaries list both spellings. Equally acceptable spellings are listed in alphabetical order, so "volcanoes" appears first, but it is not marked as the preferred form.
Most of the volcanos cited in the "data" section of OT III (later in the document) did not exist 75 million years ago. See the list here
Hubbard capitalizes "H Bomb" where the convention (at least now) is "H-bomb".
Note that Hubbard uses the correct spelling of "principal". He does not appear to be a bad speller. (It would be impossible to check this by looking at printed Scientology literature, since his output was checked and edited by underlings before publication.)
Note the reference to "Incident 2". In both the Fishman Declaration and Wakefield versions of OT III this is transcribed as "Incident II", i.e., using roman numerals, and this convention is also followed in the Vorlon edition of the FLAG NOTs pack. Martin Ottman's transcription says "Incident 2". In Hubbard's original document, arabic numbers or the words "One" and "Two" are used, but never roman numerals.
The heavy use of parenthetical interjections gives the page the tone of a verbal report, but examining the actual document shows that a couple of these were inserted later, so this cannot be a verbatim transcript. The first one, "(founded 95,000,000 yrs ago, very space opera)", appears to be an insert because it uses smaller letters and smaller inter-line spacing than the rest of the text. The second one is "(Confed.)", which clarifies the meaning of "place". This is expanded to "(Confederation)" in the typeset versions of OT III I've seen, such as Wakefield's (cited below.)
On the RJ-67 tape (Ron's Journal #67), Hubbard uses "Confederacy" rather than "Confederation".
Two other insertions are noteworthy. The "with his crime" phrase, the only interjection not parenthesized, indicates that it was Xenu who was "through", rather than the implanting of an individual reaching completion. And the "(to the people)" comment clarifies that the officers were loyal to Xenu's victims, not Xenu. The visual appearance of this comment shows that it could not have been inserted later. On the other hand, it is ungrammatical, suggesting that Hubbard realized the ambiguity at the moment he finished the preceding line, and stuck in the parenthetical comment to resolve it.
Attorney Douglas M. Johnson suggests (see bottom of page) that the word I've transcribed as "loyal" may actually be "Royal".
The document has a telegraphic style in places, suggesting it was scribbled down in haste. One example is the abbreviation "yrs" in the first parenthetical comment. (All the typeset versions of OT III I've seen expand this to "years".) Another example is the ungrammatical "(to the people)" insertion.
On pages 2-3 Hubbard suggests he may be the only person in 75,000,000 years to have discovered the implant and lived to tell about it. The raw, breathless tone of this document, and the fact that it is still presented to Scientologists in its original handwritten form, heighten the reader's sense of being there with Hubbard in 1967 when he emerges "very knocked out but alive" to scribble down his momentous discovery.
It's hard to see how a galactic confederation could become a "desert" except in a highly metaphorical sense. What happened to all the folks who defeated Xenu's renegades? Is Xenu, still locked in his mountain trap, the lone survivor of his race?
Logical contradiction: how can there be 250 billion "or so" per planet if the average number was 178 billion?
The Xenu/Xemu Controversy
This page contains one of the few appearances of the word "Xenu" in print in the Scientology scriptures. (To the best of my knowledge, this is the only occurrence in Hubbard's own handwriting.) I've heard that there was an OT III teacher's manual that contained "Xemu" in print, and in at least one case the word was crossed out and "Xenu" was handwritten in, but I have not been able to confirm this. The ex-Scientologists I've personally spoken with say "Xenu" is the more commonly used form.
There is reference to the OT III story in the RJ-67 tape cited by Kendrick Moxon in his deposition of Jeff Jacobsen (see below). Moxon says "Xenu" in the deposition, but Xenu himself is not mentioned on that tape.
Why did Warren McShane say "Xemu" rather than "Xenu" in his testimony in the FACTNet case in Colorado? (Transcript below.) This may be a transcription error, since Robert Vaughn Young, a former high-level Scientologist turned critic who also testified that day, is shown using the same pronunciation. RTC lawyer Helena Kobrin has been known to block out the word "Xenu" in some of her legal correspondence, so perhaps saying "Xemu" is a Scientologist's way of avoiding pronunciation of the real word. It's clear from the document image that Hubbard really did write "Xenu" and not "Xemu". And two people who knew Hubbard have told me that the name is definitely "Xenu", although one recalled that there was one place where "Xemu" was used. Presumably that was the Class VIII Assists tape.
There are several spoken mentions of "Xemu" on the Class VIII Assists tape. A partial transcript of this tape appeared in Scamizdat #5. Sound clips are available here in several formats: WAV, PCM, or RealAudio files. (You can download a free RealAudio player by clicking here.) In the first excerpt Hubbard appears unsure about the name:
And they had elected a fellow by the name of Xenu, ahhh, could be spelled X-E-M-U, to the supreme "rulah", and they were about to unelect him. And he took the last moments he had in office to really "goof the floof."
Aren't thetans supposed to have perfect recall of all their memories? How come Hubbard can't remember whether the biggest villain in galactic history is named Xenu or Xemu? Wouldn't such a thing be indelibly burned into his menal image pictures of his life as a space alien? The remaining four instances on the tape are all "Xemu":
xemu3.wav, xemu3.ram: "so on, the administrators that had been loyal to Xemu were"
xemu4.wav, xemu4.ram: "Xemu was put with several of his cohorts in the center of a mountain"
So, if the transcript is accurate, Hubbard himself was unclear whether the name was Xenu or Xemu. His associates insist that he always said "Xenu", and in this tape he does start out with "Xenu", but then he continues with "Xemu".
I don't have anything to add but.. does it strike anyone else reading this thread that you can get normal sane people to believe ANYTHING?? Mormons believe that American Indians are the lost tribes of Israel that sailed across the ocean 2000 years ago. And Scientologists believe in the galactic prince Xenu and that L. Ron Hubbard was a prophet or whatever they call him. I mean, really... people will believe anything won't they?
I don't have anything to add but.. does it strike anyone else reading this thread that you can get normal sane people to believe ANYTHING?? Mormons believe that American Indians are the lost tribes of Israel that sailed across the ocean 2000 years ago. And Scientologists believe in the galactic prince Xenu and that L. Ron Hubbard was a prophet or whatever they call him. I mean, really... people will believe anything won't they?
sudo
I agree.
And, I think people who smugly proclaim, "It couldn't happen to me!" are probably sitting ducks because of their pride and vanity.
I don't have anything to add but.. does it strike anyone else reading this thread that you can get normal sane people to believe ANYTHING??[
actually, that's quite a lot to add..
I have a few off center beliefs..
*some* might be considered *close* to scientology doctrine..
but then.. you'd have to toss in.. all kinds of *stuff*..
not that I claim to be normal or sane..
but my insanity is my own..
no, I don't need to buy any more.. and what I have is not for sale..
maybe the point here is..
they take their little itty bitty nugget of "truth?".. and why do they insist upon selling it.. I really think it is *magic* (excuse the phrase) until they stick a greasy price tag on it..
it turns miracles into snake oil as soon as the price tag adheres to the product..
then comes all kinds of politics and such.. its not "pretty"..
I think he saw something.. yes, perhaps we were born into this life before.. and a drug riddled, sci-fi author kind of mind attached a rather bizarre non-conclusion to our origins.. no, we wern't some kind of cretans, humbled and enslaved by some emperor in a galaxy, long long away..
If someone ever offers an "audit".. I think I would ask to see what happens if I attach the electrodes to the scientologist and ask questions in terms of my "religion"..
I hope the moderators and anyone else here does not mind me being passionate about this. I am unique in a way. I was a victum of two cults. I got involved in sciectology in 1986 to 1988. This was before the age of the internet fully took place, when I was involved in the ny org, all this stuff about zemu or zenu was not know to an average scientologist. only the upper magagement knew this stuff. One thing I can tell you for sure is L.R. hubbard back in 1967" created this OT3 "level one day he knew he was going to pass away he was going to leave it to david mayo. David M. staged a coop and won. Now because of the internet scientology is now being show for what it is. I have a lot of inside information if anyone here want to know I will be glad to answer it here in an open fourm or in privite.
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JeffSjo
I think it awesome that this senator has had enough and is trying to launch a criminal investigation into the Church of Scientology's activities because there have been reputable reports of abuse on a level comparable with Wierwille's reported abuses IMO.
This news report has me thinking about legal action against The Way International.
But like Australia IMO, in the U.S. there would be many, many people who reject official action on the basis of a high respect for religious liberty.
On the one hand, I know there are people who hate organized religion and use such activities as an investigation to further their own agenda.
On the other hand there are also many abusive religious organizations that would reject official investigations under the false front of "attacks against religious liberties" because they themselves would not want their abusive, manipulative, and possibly criminal actions exposed.
In the U.S there would doubtlessly be many people for and against official inquiries of cult activity, for both the "right" reasons and the "wrong" reasons on both sides I suppose.
Some would be against inquiries of alleged Way Ministry criminalty because that's how The Way International programmed them to feel. I feel sometimes that GSC has the potiential to wake 'em up and realise that it isn't religious liberty The Way International wants to protect, but instead they wnat to protect themselves from the consequences their actions truly deserve. That is how GSC has caused me to feel.
As far as official inquiries of cult activities go, if it is possible to establish something like that anywhere in the west such movements would need to be able to weather a ton of political heat. And IMO they only have a chance of being worthwhile if they are being run by honest folks who feel very, very highly of religious liberty, also feel like criminals deserve to be punished, and hate the hypocrisy of criminals hiding behind their public stance of "religious liberty."
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nyunknown
Thanks for the video clip jeffsjo. I an ex-scientologist myself. I am also a member of an ex-scientologist message board. The belivers of "ZEMU" are in more troble than you think. If you like I can send more info here or in privite if you like.
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JeffSjo
Thank you for the offer nyunknown, I'm not sure I could do much with it. But it is possible I might share it at a Facebook site where this type of stuff is discussed that I frequent.
Send it if you wish, I might repost it though FYI.
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nyunknown
Ok will do. there is actually a long posting about this subject. Since the GSC and the ex-scientology member boards are diffrent. I will look up some details that you might find interesting.
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JeffSjo
I will check it out then :)
Thank you!
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nyunknown
And speaking of scientology!
Enjoy this clip!
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nyunknown
Even Darth Darth Vader is against Scientology! He is also a member of the ex-scientology member board! I am trying to get him to join the GSC!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQfA8isC5VM
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JeffSjo
I saw that episode of Boston Legal and it is most everything that I know about Scientology.
Well I had heard about Hubbard once boasting he could make up a religion. <_<
And the Vader clip.... :o
dick, dick, dickety dick....haaaaaaahahahahahaha
(added in editing)
I don't know about Vader joining GSC nyunknown....we already have several folks who think themselves to be good at light sabers.
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nyunknown
On a more serious note poor Hiram monserrate that no good f**King B**tard who was covicted of a misdemeanor charge of slashing his girlfriend face with a glass and also took part in the coup attempt by switching his vote twice up in albany last summer and changed leadership twice up in the state senate lost a special election after he was thrown out. Poor tom cruise. Well any man who would do that deserves a lot more than being thrown out of office!
http://showbiz411.bl...ion-impossible/
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nyunknown
Pardon me for not getting back here sooner. Anonymous is a member of the ex-scientology member board like I am. Dave M. The dicator of scientology considers anon the number 1 foe. They plan to change the courses and more massive protests are planned all across the world. Its not in the news yet. But you will all hear it soon.
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JeffSjo
Thanks for those links nyunknown!
As far as Sen. Hiram Monserrate goes, as far as I'm concerned cutting his girlfriends face with glass makes him one of many sick, nasty bastards on the face of the planet. But in spite of the urgent and pressing desire to delivery him a first-class beat down I have to remember some things I've learned in life.
#1 I like to decide the Lord will repay, not me.
#2 Be careful, that #$&%* actually cut his girlfriend's face with jagged glass and had his lawyers negotiate a midemeanor plea. He's f'in powerful and dangerous!
IMO, comparing The Way International to Scientology puts The Way international in "THE BUSH LEAGUES" of abusive religious style organizations.
One more thing...."ANONYMOUS ROCKS"
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nyunknown
Waterbufflao I decided to post here. I am concerned. This is a link about david miscavage that midget dicator. I am not concerned about silly stuff about 2012 or monty python ect. I am concerned about anyone thinking about joining scientology. My advise is DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT! I acutally talked someone out of joining! Take That that David M!
http://www.whoisdavidmiscavige.com/
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nyunknown
Waterbuffalo please show this to your friend and or anyone else who is thinking about joining the "billion year club"!
I hope this helps!
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JeffSjo
When I first started to get involved in The Way International I was hooked in part because of doctrinal points that nobody else "seemed" to be able to deal with.
The friendship I found at the twig level was better than anything else I had going at the time.
The religious critics of the Way Ministry either seemed to be unreasonable or illogical to me. Of course the fact that I swallowed Way propoganda hook, line, and sinker about Wierwille being a man of God didn't help me see any legitimate criticism of him I suppose.
The fact that The Way International did such a good job of effectively isolating and silencing it's victims meant I never heard credible and legitimate testimony of Way Leadership's abusive and hidden agendas.
Heck.....if the information you've posted here Nyunknown actually helps anybody avoid the same type of pitfall I fell into, but pertaining to The Church (so-called) of Scientology that is WONDERFUL!
But I'm thinking that anybody who seeks to help any potential cult victim will certainly need to be patient but firm, loving, supportive.... all the good stuff. In my early days of involvement fearful and kneejerk type reactions only served to push me farther into The Way International.
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nyunknown
Here is another link from someone who was involved in scientology!
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nyunknown
This was written in L.Ron Hubbards own hand writting!
Founded Jan. 19, 1997, by David S. Touretzky (dst@cs.cmu.edu) This page is based on this page.
A: Because she's dead. Our sympathy to her family, and the families of all Scientology victims. <BR clear=all>
Space Opera as Theology: Scientology's OT III
This page is dedicated to the analysis and criticism of what Scientologists must consider to be the most significant document in the history of the human race: L. Ron Hubbard's "OT III". (See legal notes below.) The first page of this historic work, jotted down in Hubbard's own hand, is presented herewith:
Transcript:
How do you know this was actually written by L. Ron Hubbard?
The document was authenticated by Helena Kobrin, lawyer for Religious Technology Center, in a letter sent to Carnegie Mellon's legal counsel on January 24, 1997. Her assistance is much appreciated.
Do Scientologists really believe this stuff?
Yes, they do. This essay by Bob Minton describes the Scientology world-view that emerges from OT III.
What comes after OT III?
After OT III comes NOTs, or NED for OTs (New Era Dianetics for Operating Thetans), which covers levels OT IV through OT VII. More body thetan stuff. You can learn about NOTs at the NOTs Scholars Home Page.
Was Xenu a drug-inspired hallucination, or a rip-off from Gurdijeff??
Prignillius contributed this interesting posting concerning how Hubbard's drug use may have contributed to OT III. A reader writes to inform us that "... the body thetans idea is similiar to Gurdjieff's `Organ Kundabuffer': an organ supposedly implanted (long ago) in human bodies in order to twist their perception of reality. The whole of Gurdjieff's work was aimed to destroy the consequences of this Organ (as repeated many times in his Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson book)."
Commentary
The Xenu/Xemu Controversy
In the first excerpt Hubbard appears unsure about the name:
Aren't thetans supposed to have perfect recall of all their memories? How come Hubbard can't remember whether the biggest villain in galactic history is named Xenu or Xemu? Wouldn't such a thing be indelibly burned into his menal image pictures of his life as a space alien?
The remaining four instances on the tape are all "Xemu":
So, if the transcript is accurate, Hubbard himself was unclear whether the name was Xenu or Xemu. His associates insist that he always said "Xenu", and in this tape he does start out with "Xenu", but then he continues with "Xemu".
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Sudo
I don't have anything to add but.. does it strike anyone else reading this thread that you can get normal sane people to believe ANYTHING?? Mormons believe that American Indians are the lost tribes of Israel that sailed across the ocean 2000 years ago. And Scientologists believe in the galactic prince Xenu and that L. Ron Hubbard was a prophet or whatever they call him. I mean, really... people will believe anything won't they?
sudo
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waysider
I agree.
And, I think people who smugly proclaim, "It couldn't happen to me!" are probably sitting ducks because of their pride and vanity.
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Ham
actually, that's quite a lot to add..
I have a few off center beliefs..
*some* might be considered *close* to scientology doctrine..
but then.. you'd have to toss in.. all kinds of *stuff*..
not that I claim to be normal or sane..
but my insanity is my own..
no, I don't need to buy any more.. and what I have is not for sale..
maybe the point here is..
they take their little itty bitty nugget of "truth?".. and why do they insist upon selling it.. I really think it is *magic* (excuse the phrase) until they stick a greasy price tag on it..
it turns miracles into snake oil as soon as the price tag adheres to the product..
then comes all kinds of politics and such.. its not "pretty"..
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Ham
as screwed up as L ron was..
I think he saw something.. yes, perhaps we were born into this life before.. and a drug riddled, sci-fi author kind of mind attached a rather bizarre non-conclusion to our origins.. no, we wern't some kind of cretans, humbled and enslaved by some emperor in a galaxy, long long away..
that's about all the credence he gets, from me..
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Ham
If someone ever offers an "audit".. I think I would ask to see what happens if I attach the electrodes to the scientologist and ask questions in terms of my "religion"..
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nyunknown
I hope the moderators and anyone else here does not mind me being passionate about this. I am unique in a way. I was a victum of two cults. I got involved in sciectology in 1986 to 1988. This was before the age of the internet fully took place, when I was involved in the ny org, all this stuff about zemu or zenu was not know to an average scientologist. only the upper magagement knew this stuff. One thing I can tell you for sure is L.R. hubbard back in 1967" created this OT3 "level one day he knew he was going to pass away he was going to leave it to david mayo. David M. staged a coop and won. Now because of the internet scientology is now being show for what it is. I have a lot of inside information if anyone here want to know I will be glad to answer it here in an open fourm or in privite.
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