Living the Right Way

[Twinky]

So here are all these wannabes with "ministries" and they all have special knowledge of God and they're all willing to impart it to you – for a price.

For those who still profess Christianity:

Could you just remind me again – how many books was it that Jesus wrote? And sold, to fund his lifestyle?

For post-Pentecost followers of Paul:

There were plenty of epistles that he wrote to all the young churches. How much d'you suppose he charged per page of the letters known as 1 and 2 Corinthians?

And what d'you suppose he charged Timothy, for training and ordaining him?

For post-Pentecost followers of the more Jewish apostles?

Remind me again – what did likely lads like James, Jude and Peter charge for copies of their books/epistles?

For OT followers:

How much did Moses charge for training the leaders, in Ex 18:25? And there must have been instruction manuals, books, scrolls, what-have-you, to ensure that they did it correctly, yes?

Too difficult to write it all down in the desert?

Okay, how about Ezra's teachings in Neh 8? It's quite clear that there were written documents then, including lots of written documentation about kings and laws and so forth; so here in the book of Nehemiah, where the instruction of lots of people is described – surely all those new "converts" must have required special instruction books? And special training for the newly-appointed leaders?

That Jesus! He had such stupid ideas! Just how was he planning to fund his stable of racing donkeys?

Matthew 10 (King James Version)

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out , and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; …

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth , and commanded them, saying , Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

…

27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

I don't read anywhere in this or associated records:

Sell 'em the book

Here's secret knowledge that you can buy (and on-sell).

Make 'em come to church/synagogue/my pet place of worship (in fact, quite the opposite. There's a warning to beware of those in the synagogues (verse 17)).

Tell 'em to check out my work/long period of study

We have a class that, for a fee, will help you understand better.

Don't tell if they won't buy

I do read, in relation to a similar outreach:

Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given , he offered them money,

19 Saying , Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

("Clear off, and take your money with you!")

Wow! Imagine that from one of these wannabes with a ministry!! What kind of a cult would that be? How on earth could they fund a lavish or even comfortable lifestyle, when money-for-knowledge is rejected?

Edited June 7, 2010 by Twinky

[bulwinkl]

But twinky thats sounds anti-capitalist!!!!!!!

Edited June 7, 2010 by bulwinkl

[year2027]

God first

thanks Twinky

yes Simon wanted to get money but it never tells us if he got the money or not

did Peter changed his mind or did Simon get the money

that why we do not call him a troll or any name

we pray that receives knowledge from God to changed his thinking

or knowledge from man to changed his thinking

with love and a holy kiss Roy

[Twinky]

I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular. I'm just fed up with the number of people claiming "special" knowledge that they want to sell to you.

Which is such a contrast between (if you are Christian) what Jesus taught.

But "everyone hath a psalm" and they want you to pay them to sing it to you. Instead of doing it for the joy of doing it. What's with all this ego that makes that person's knowledge so very special? It's not passion to share a better way that motivates them. It's passion for money. Passion for accolades. Passion for - themselves.

Let's write a book.

Chronicles of Grease Spot Cafe, maybe?

[year2027]

God first

thanks Twinky

i love you Twinky my friend

with love and a holy kiss Roy

[chockfull]

Nice thread, Twinky.

Too many people seem to start out with good intentions the same way Roy / year2027 does, but then go immediately astray.

Roy says "God first". Then usually some kind message that he loves us.

Most of the opportunists say "God first. Pay me second".

For me, I'll stick with Roy's interpretation

[year2027]

God first

thanks chockfull

with love and a holy kiss Roy

[Gen-2]

Well for every scam, there's a scamee! I mean someone has to buy the Hat, the T-shirt, the Bumper Sticker, the Movie, yadda, yadda, yadda....

And as long as people are willing to pay, someone will be there to take their money. Someone with a fried brain (that just knows thay he/she can't be wrong) will bury the slurpee straw deep into your brain and suck vigorously.

[Twinky]

I don't know that they all start out as scams, Gen-2. Some might genuinely start out well-meaning. And then careful and appropriate guidance becomes more and more control of people's lives, with the "big stick" of not being pleasing to God. (Is there a "latent bully" in all of us?)

And these books of "special knowledge" or "secrets of life" become a way of extending the bullying, the control. Especially where sold from some private location (our church/HQ/private publishing company).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against book authors, people who genuinely do have some knowledge, writing about their understanding. Nor am I against them selling their books. But who or what is the focus? How exclusive is the target market? Who ends up getting empowered - the reader, who learns how to live better/gains more understanding of the topic? Or the author, who gains/cements an element of control? And who gets the money? And what becomes of it?

I'm thinking of people like Yancey, Swindoll - even Johnson & VanVonderen, who wrote The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, that has been so helpful to people here at the Cafe. These people - especially the last-named pair - seem the antithesis of cult leaders.

The instruction in 1 Timothy 3 (about selection of church overseers) springs to mind.

:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

How do the wannabe's kids present?

>Are they quiet, because cowed into submission?

>Or are they quiet, because they are polite and respectfully brought up?

>Are the wannabe's kids able to express an opinion?

>Or are they required to be seen and not heard?

>Are the kids treated as individuals, with their own personalities?

>Or are they treated like clones, one-size-fits-all?

>Are the kids' abilities acknowledged and encouraged?

>Or are they forced to give up things they enjoy and do things they dislike?

...Cos that's how the wannabe leader will treat his following. That's how his "special knowledge" really plays out.